Dragon's End - Meta Frustrating Map chat - Spoiler free

[Zeike.7469]

Me and my best friend finally got up to the Dragon's end map, we've been trying to do the meta prior to doing the story for fun, exp and all sorts. It took 2 hours to get to the meta and all in all the events were all fun. However, when it got to the end, we had really annoying people calling out "Jump" "Tail" and all that which I did but I didn't understand some of it. There was a phase and It meant absoloutly nothing to me, I just didn't get what I needed to do. I followed markings on the ground dps'd where I could when I asked on map chat and said that I didn't understand a phase all I got was:

"Lol whats not to get, jump" 
"Fail I guess." 
"Do you want us to hold your hand?"

Like honestly, thats utterly off putting and caused my friend and I to take a break for a bit with how rude people were on the map. It was our first attempt at even learning the meta mechanics, honestly. I'm beyond annoyed that this comes from the Guild Wars 2 Community. To call out people like that and be rude beyond belief when people genuinly are not understanding phases. I've raided in other games, and learned the mechanics with trial and error, this isn't the way. We failed with 20% of health remaining, and I'm ok that we failed but I still dont understand that one phase. But I'm now reluctant to even bother with people like that.

 

Thanks for ruining my first big meta event on this expansion. I understand that everyones not like that, but it was aweful, beyond frustrating and dissapointing.

 

 

[patton the great.7126]

Welcome to the internet, we are all out of thick skin infusions, but if you wait we may get some more in stock. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by patton the great.7126

[Rasimir.6239]

Honestly that's one of the main reasons why I usually take it slow with new releases. If you wait a couple of days, the "I'm better than you" kind of people have mostly moved on to prove their superiority elsewhere.

 

That said, I reached the map today (yay for taking a few days off from work) and had a quite similar experience with that meta. I ended up turning off map chat and simply enjoying myself. I usually try to enjoy content first, then read up on it once I've done it a few time and figured most of it out by myself. After all, figuring out new encounters is a large part of the fun of new content 🙂 .

[Skynet.7201]

It was like this in other brand new metas too. It's a learning curve, and during the first week it's going to be hit or miss completing it.

Why get so upset over one instance, one incident? Part of the fun, sometimes, is bearing through the frustration to achieve victory.

[Tatwi.3562]

This is why complex "raid mechanics" should be limited to optional content, like raids and hard mode dungeons. After more than 20 years of MMOs we know this kind of content caters to a minority of players and said group has a toxic culture.

 

The inhabitants of Guild Wars 2's open world almost always pleasant. It would be nice if stayed that way.

 

Stick the obnoxious raiders away in their instances, thanks.

[patton the great.7126]

Truthfully, just turn map chat off. I don't think anything in gw2 is that difficult that it can't be completed by trial and error. 

 

You wanna see a kitten show, look at YouTube for some of the very 1st attempts at killing the chak monkey scorpion thing. Now that was high quality entertainment. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by patton the great.7126

[ugrakarma.9416]

Ins't more complex than Dragon Stand, the problem is boss HP scale. 

Various ppl are relating fail with 10%~15% hp, and im sure most ppl trying this are experienced players.

Edited March 2, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[wayneericgouin.9371]

The frustration comes when that particular meta quite literally takes 2 hours of work, so people get  heated when they feel someone is contributing to their failure. It's not cool at all mind you but having attempted this event several times I can at least understand it.

[nEmM.3076]

Not to be rude but I don't understand the point of this post. You can't "fix" people on the internet. It's an online game, you can't be sheltered from others being rude to you, especially those that just care about min/maxing their time. 

 

I've never felt compelled to create a post blaming other for "ruining" my experience. Just ignore those people in the future, they will always be in your online games. Best you can do is move on, learn the mechanics on your own time and try not to let them get to you. 

[Omega.6801]

20 minutes ago, Tatwi.3562 said:

This is why complex "raid mechanics" should be limited to optional content, like raids and hard mode dungeons. After more than 20 years of MMOs we know this kind of content caters to a minority of players and said group has a toxic culture.

 

The inhabitants of Guild Wars 2's open world almost always pleasant. It would be nice if stayed that way.

 

Stick the obnoxious raiders away in their instances, thanks.

I get your point. But I doubt jumping and dodging qualify as "complex raid mechanics".

[Zeike.7469]

Removed.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Zeike.7469
Didnt quote

[Zeike.7469]

7 minutes ago, nEmM.3076 said:

Not to be rude but I don't understand the point of this post. You can't "fix" people on the internet. It's an online game, you can't be sheltered from others being rude to you, especially those that just care about min/maxing their time. 

 

I've never felt compelled to create a post blaming other for "ruining" my experience. Just ignore those people in the future, they will always be in your online games. Best you can do is move on, learn the mechanics on your own time and try not to let them get to you. 

Not trying to fix people in the slightest but raise an awareness, to perhaps reach one or two who are guilty of this with any other map meta, and maybe think twice? It's a forum. 

 

I'm not blaming anyone for ruining an experience, I'm stating that they did. As others have said I shall mute map chat, but I was asking on thier about some tips or advice on what that phase meant. It's dissapointing that it's lead to a path of abuse to the point that my returning friend has gotten fed up with it. After 2 hours of learning, and trying to keep up to be shut down by the map chat wasn't overly pleasant. 

 

I've never been there for the start of previous metas, this is my first experience. Cantha was huge for me in GW1. Never seen map chat like that, ever. So caught me off guard and to be frank, dissapointed me.  

[Zeike.7469]

It was merely just a phase where rings appear and theres small green circles, I stand in it. Tons of mobs appear, the green circles crystalise, and we're there for a minute and a half. I dont know what that means, are we meant to do something to make that timer quicker? People were like "Jump" and asking for advice didn't get me anywhere.

 

[Tatwi.3562]

6 minutes ago, lokh.2695 said:

I get your point. But I doubt jumping and dodging qualify as "complex raid mechanics".

There are story instances from years ago that I still haven't done and I utterly loathed many of the ones that I did do. And it's not even that I can't do it, I just... really hate it and don't want to. I get where the OP is coming from.

 

More to the point though, the group of people who do enjoy this stuff are the same group who are toxic. The less time they spend in the open world with normal folks, the better.

[Omega.6801]

30 minutes ago, Tatwi.3562 said:

There are story instances from years ago that I still haven't done and I utterly loathed many of the ones that I did do. And it's not even that I can't do it, I just... really hate it and don't want to. I get where the OP is coming from.

 

More to the point though, the group of people who do enjoy this stuff are the same group who are toxic. The less time they spend in the open world with normal folks, the better.

Assuming by "this stuff" you mean things like dodging and jumping, I have to say that many players enjoy these feature of GW2 combat without being toxic. It's just basic game mechanics and by actually using them in encounters, ANet wants to incentivize players to use them. Something they haven't done so far in the open world. This leads to a lower skill level among the playerbase which in turn makes it harder for ANet to balance especially the open world experience. Please let ANet demand something from you, so you as a player can improve and in the end have a deeper understanding of the game and a bigger enjoymentwhen this understanding pays out. I don't want riad challenge levels in the open world, but asking of the players to move out of a red circle or dodging a well telegraphed attack is not asking much and certainly not on the level of "complex raid mechanincs".

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I don't know, I don't even join maps anymore because they all say stuff like "SUPER EXP REQUIRED, NO NEW ELITES, META BUILDS ONLY, KICK IF YOU DIE" when we're only a few days in. Rediculous.

 

Well that's not true, sometimes you get a map that says "im tag plz join".

Edited March 2, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

i had a fewq times wher i did  nnot understand that fase either, never stoot ont he circles so no idea what that did.  bot today, before the meta went full i asked, and we had a ncie talk in mapchat about that fase and what to do. not during the bossbattle, but explaining beforehand what it does.

that fase seemingly means it spawns those rings, if you stand on it you become a wisp and fall off, and you have to return back up (easy if you place a jade TP on top of there), after everyone who was in the circle get back up the fase should end, if  people fail to get up the dragon destroys them.

 

you can hide behind the crystal pilars to avoid the attack.

 

we got to the point its best to just to say to not stand in the circles, its easier to have no wisps and pillars and everyone dies and tp back than to wait 2 minutes for that fase timer to run out

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

1 hour ago, lokh.2695 said:

Assuming by "this stuff" you mean things like dodging and jumping, I have to say that many players enjoy these feature of GW2 combat without being toxic. It's just basic game mechanics and by actually using them in encounters, ANet wants to incentivize players to use them. Something they haven't done so far in the open world. This leads to a lower skill level among the playerbase which in turn makes it harder for ANet to balance especially the open world experience. Please let ANet demand something from you, so you as a player can improve and in the end have a deeper understanding of the game and a bigger enjoymentwhen this understanding pays out. I don't want riad challenge levels in the open world, but asking of the players to move out of a red circle or dodging a well telegraphed attack is not asking much and certainly not on the level of "complex raid mechanincs".

I think the issue at the moment is more the HP (or the timer) because the boss is a big dps check even if you succeed at the mecanics and cc (ppl are pretty good at it from what i saw but event failed anyways).

For example, yesterday, Teapots did this with optimised squad (meta builds, opti sub-groups + boon pre stack before each burn phases) and with voice com to coordinate. There was 40 seconds left on timer...

So i think it's fair to say it's overtuned atm ^^ (but i don't want it to be nerfed to the ground either)

Edited March 2, 2022 by Carcharoth Lucian.1378

[kharny.3284]

it's currently not well tuned, out of 4 groups that failed with it, all got within 20%, and most followed mechanics quite well.

The issue is that it's a very small area, very busy and with a lot of mechanics, which is fine, topped by a hard dps check(which is not for a non-closed event)

[Shiroi Sennin.7935]

Edgy lords can shove their "just gitgud, bunch of crybabies" down their *ss. And those who say this meta's dificulty is fine, and it's just about comparing it with hard instanced content, THIS isn't just about game mechanics. We are speaking about an event that requires almost 2 hours of previous events, only for a slight mistake to make everyone's time be wasted.

I have never done raids, but i was told there are mechanics you must follow so you don't make the entire party get wiped away and get the blame, same with some strike missions. But my point is that in instanced content, if you fail, you just return to the lobby and try again until either you finish it, or give up due to constant loss.

In this event, if you fail, you have wasted 1-2 hours of your time, and the time of around 50 players more. Even the rewards from the pre-meta events aren't worth the time invested, if you ask me. I know i cannot ask for rewards like Drizzlewood coast, Dragonfall or Silverwastes, but for the difficulty of this meta, the rewards should be an incentive to play through it constantly, because at this rate, it will be a "content you'll attempt to do it until you finish it, then never touch it again"

Edited March 2, 2022 by Shiroi Sennin.7935
typo

[ugrakarma.9416]

3 hours ago, kharny.3284 said:

it's currently not well tuned, out of 4 groups that failed with it, all got within 20%, and most followed mechanics quite well.

The issue is that it's a very small area, very busy and with a lot of mechanics, which is fine, topped by a hard dps check(which is not for a non-closed event)

Thats whats im saying.

Mechanically this meta seems designed to be another like another Dragon Stand. A map require coordination, not a DPS check. In Dragon Stand(before mounts) ppl can die, go back, and still have a chance to do meta. Also like Dragon Stand, its require a long build-up.

Dragon End meta, is requiring both, higher coordination and higer dps meta-standart, this doesnt fit a open world meta, otherwise will end like Serpents Ire or Marionette.

Only toxic raid-like elitists are advocating to the meta stay as this.

Also we notice some standart: DragonStand, DragonFall, DragonStorm,, its seems clear that Dragonsomething maps, are intedend to be a coordinated maps, no a dps check meta. Which indicates that overscaled hp boss  is a non-intended. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[ugrakarma.9416]

4 hours ago, Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

I think the issue at the moment is more the HP (or the timer) because the boss is a big dps check even if you succeed at the mecanics and cc (ppl are pretty good at it from what i saw but event failed anyways).

For example, yesterday, Teapots did this with optimised squad (meta builds, opti sub-groups + boon pre stack before each burn phases) and with voice com to coordinate. There was 40 seconds left on timer...

So i think it's fair to say it's overtuned atm ^^ (but i don't want it to be nerfed to the ground either)

This too what im sayng here everytime..

Top coordination guys are failing it, TeaPot ins't a joke.

[Winola.8214]

9 hours ago, Zeike.7469 said:

It was merely just a phase where rings appear and theres small green circles, I stand in it. Tons of mobs appear, the green circles crystalise, and we're there for a minute and a half. I dont know what that means, are we meant to do something to make that timer quicker? People were like "Jump" and asking for advice didn't get me anywhere.

 

Groups I've been in today were trying to skip that mechanic, by not standing in the circles as it takes time away from fighting the boss. So be careful with the green circles and what commanders ask for. 

 

Would agree with OP the map is unpleasantly toxic while people are trying to learn mechanics. Some people really blew their tops after a run with maybe 3% left on the boss when timeout hit. Really no need to ask for people to keep blacklists of others who made an error with the mechanics, sharing names of players who struggled in other attempts with anyone who asked and wishing players who made an error death in real life. I mean I get people are frustrated - some said they tried for or five times today - but if you're that angry with a game maybe just walk away for a bit?

 

Hoping ANET will say something about looking at the timer situation. It's really asking for community misbehavior that one person not reading map chat while doing the mechanics as intended and telegraphed by aNet (standing the green circles) can tank the attempt for full squads of players running out of time. With language barriers and not everyone following map chat that seems poor design and sets that one player up for a dogpiling by 50 others. 

 

I was really shocked reading along in that run with just the level of vitriol. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Winola.8214

[Shiroi Sennin.7935]

6 minutes ago, Winola.8214 said:

 It's really asking for community misbehavior that one person not reading map chat while doing the mechanics as intended and telegraphed by aNet (standing the green circles) can tank the attempt for full squads of players running out of time.

This. This meta's design apparently tried to mix instanced content and world meta events, but there's a HUGE problem aside of those already explained:

Even if we "gitgud" and learn the mechanics, new/unexperienced players will always come, and there's nothing we can do to prevent them to joining our map. They DO NOT deserve the toxicity salty players will spill towards them if the meta fail, but this terrible meta desing won't prevent it from happening. It's like if raid/strike/fractals didn't allow squad forming before entering, and on top of that, there was 2 hours of pre-meta NEEDED for the real action to start.

[Manhy Crawley.4875]

Nerf this kitten its so kitten dumb....... Open Worlder are not ready for this.... its meta event not a kitten raid