Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Bast.7253]

1 hour ago, Minjin.8259 said:

Yesterday I went with the most organized group yet.  We had a comm that split us into correct groups, many of us brought proper builds, most people did everything right.  Very few downs, etc.  We had 2% left and 2 mins after the 3 way split.  We had time to kill her off, everyone thought we were going to get this one.  But she decided to flip flop around the platform for the entire time.  We never got a break bar to kill her.  Everyone left just dejected.  There was no toxicity, no blame game because there was no one to blame.  I can't do it again.  I just can't.  I have more than enough writs, I will buy it.  I don't care if anyone thinks I didn't earn it.  I never want to do it again.

Right? And honestly after failing just now for the upteenth time I just don't even have a desire to play any of the rest of the expansion. I mean what is there anyway? Fishing? Grinding collections? I haven't done Saeting or Kaening metas but the maps are so jarring from the gross junkyard jade tech everywhere I hardly even visit those zones if I don't have to. And what are they anyway? Aetherblade? Jade Brotherhood? Lame human factions that just pollute the story. 

So much potential from going back to Cantha alone and we get one of the worst stories we've had in years with the only real payoff to the elder dragon's plot being this horribly designed meta that has no business having half the mechanics it does in open world content. 

Whatever, leave the mechanics, leave the rng, but increase the time limit so it can account for the horribly designed rng in the encounter. 

I think this could be a really fun fight as a strike mission but the Heart of Thorns metas were just on another level. Sure some of them were infuriating at launch, but the encounters were consistent and some poor soul getting trapped in a whisp form with some janky kitten ui and causing the rest of the group to have to work harder to make up the time is horrid, HORRRRIIDDDDDD design. 

You want people to "learn" the fight? Cool, watch this meta die the slow death it deserves as people get tried of people constantly "learning" some asinine mechanic. 

And what do the people that don't get trapped in this mechanic get to experience? What's their part in this meta? Killing and grinding against an onslaught of mobs that don't drop loot and only serve to give the rest of the group something to do? 

The fact that you have a SECOND add phase going to platforms is also bad. Why not just have the bosses all appear during one phase on each of the 5 platforms? Why split this into multiple phases? 

I don't know where this stubbornness to keep the meta as it is comes from but you're drastically hurting your own expansion and, understandably so given the time constraints, but this expansion isn't exactly knocking it out of the park on anything but aesthetics. And even that's polluted by this jade tech crap taking full focus. 

Hate to sound like a broken record here and I'm sure a lot of effort went into designing this encounter, but I have to wonder who their target audience is. The lore enthusiasts and people that like the elder dragon plot got shafted on the story. The veteran players are forced to do combat and mount training and have seen much higher quality metas from Heart of Thorns. New players are just trying to enjoy the game but then can't play what they want, how they want, because they would be sacrificing the success of this meta. 

I don't know what happened and I can fully accept that the majority of this expansion and the gameplay that comes with it, or even the story, is uniquely my problem but I've never been so quick to just completely lose interest and disengage from content at an expansion release before and I get the feeling I'm not the only one that feels this way. 
 

[Zaoda.1653]

2 hours ago, Minjin.8259 said:

Yesterday I went with the most organized group yet.  We had a comm that split us into correct groups, many of us brought proper builds, most people did everything right.  Very few downs, etc.  We had 2% left and 2 mins after the 3 way split.  We had time to kill her off, everyone thought we were going to get this one.  But she decided to flip flop around the platform for the entire time.  We never got a break bar to kill her.  Everyone left just dejected.  There was no toxicity, no blame game because there was no one to blame.  I can't do it again.  I just can't.  I have more than enough writs, I will buy it.  I don't care if anyone thinks I didn't earn it.  I never want to do it again.

 

I completely understand why you wouldn't want to do it again - I don't blame ya! - it's extremely demoralizing, especially when you're organized and spend 2 hours prepping, for it to fail. There seriously needs some improvements. As it is, I don't think many players will want to come back unless there's some really nice loot and the meta is a lot more easily achievable. I'm hearing there's still too much RNG factor with the Soo-Wan, and that's not good at all.

[Zaoda.1653]

2 hours ago, Blaeys.3102 said:

As long as "staple of the endgame ..." means regular participation by almost all of your active players, then Im on board with that.

You have to realize you are a LONG WAY from that reality right now though. The lead in time to the fight, the RNG mess and the overtuned nature (which is likely due to VERY poor scaling) make the fight a long, drawn out slog that, based on bad RNG and group size, will likely just frustrate more and more players until they stop going to it.

 

You want a staple - look at something like Silverwastes or Dragon Stand. That is how you do an end game staple.

 

Yeah I think the Dragon's Stand meta was done quite well, and there's incentive to go back there - whether it's for noxious pods for the machined weapons collection, or crystalline ores for making legendary weapons, or the treasure mushrooms (albeit a small chance for a valuable invisible boot drop, but still, it's something...). Whereas Dragon's End doesn't really have any incentive going for it, other than maybe the jadeite ore and fishing locations. The loot is horrible. If Anet added an infusion that gives a character the same effect as it does in 'the only one' storyline, and added unique armour and weapon skins specifically from the Soo-Won meta chests or defeat of Soo-Won, then, maybe then, there'd be increased incentive to come back even if/when the meta is more achievable.

[Suranis.8279]

A few days of ignoring the Jade Sea meta and I'm feeling a lot better about the game and the expansion again. Amazing what happens when you stick to doing what is fun, or at least avoid what is un-fun.

[Bast.7253]

16 minutes ago, Zaoda.1653 said:

 

Yeah I think the Dragon's Stand meta was done quite well, and there's incentive to go back there - whether it's for noxious pods for the machined weapons collection, or crystalline ores for making legendary weapons, or the treasure mushrooms (albeit a small chance for a valuable invisible boot drop, but still, it's something...). Whereas Dragon's End doesn't really have any incentive going for it, other than maybe the jadeite ore and fishing locations. The loot is horrible. If Anet added an infusion that gives a character the same effect as it does in 'the only one' storyline, and added unique armour and weapon skins specifically from the Soo-Won meta chests or defeat of Soo-Won, then, maybe then, there'd be increased incentive to come back even if/when the meta is more achievable.

I'm sure the reward revamp will be subpar with maybe a 0.00000000001% chance at some "void" infusion if that doesn't already exist. 

Maybe some currencies and crafting materials. It certainly won't be enough to entice people to participating in this abomination after they separate it from the turtle. Right now it's only use is gaining exp and it probably doesn't even do that as well as other zones. 

I think what bothers me the most is that the excuse that this is meant to be super challenging because it's the culmination of 10 years of elder dragon story. But then for the elder dragon story we get a story that puts the elder dragons on the back burner in favor of paying off on Scarlett, Aehterblades, and some droll new Canthan characters, who honestly don't seem that different than half the other characters we've already seen in game. 

Hello Caudecus, I mean Minister Li. Hello, Marjory/Canach I mean.. Rama. Hello Braham and Taimi, I mean Joon. 

I'd say Mai Trin is probably the only one that that really stands out as unique to me and I'd rather sit in her apartment watching her cats than playing through the first half of this story again. 

Off-topic but honestly, what a lame excuse. No offense to Ruby, I know she's just pr but whoever wrote that as the reasoning behind this meta.. have you even played this expansion? 

I will say that VISUALLY, it is a very beautiful encounter. But gameplay is a bloated mess full of janky special action mechanics that do nothing but obfuscate. The 5 tiny little endurance bars during wisp, the weird to use purple spear icon we have to use to shoot Soo down. The fact that the person in wisp just... immediately transitions into a wisp to begin with... like why was this even a mechanic? The memories I'm assuming are supposed to pay off somehow... but like.. they're lazy floating orbs with header text.. and I'm assuming the rational is that as you're gaining the endurance from wisps it's like the memories of the past are driving you further pushing you toward success because you're facing the literal end of reality against all odds. 

Cool, but maybe you could have done that in a story mission where it can be better translated without impacting 49 other people?

 

[Zabi Zabi.3561]

15 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

I'd say Mai Trin is probably the only one that that really stands out as unique to me and I'd rather sit in her apartment watching her cats than playing through the first half of this story again. 

This right here, she had like the most interesting part of the entire End of Dragons Story. To go from a Captain of the Aetherblades to a nobody that everyone hated and despised, all while trying to redeem themselves for their sordid past. That part of the story kind of hit hard to me (and I am sure a lot of other people too) Its a shame as to what happened to her. 

And before anybody complains about "SpOiLeRs" it was pretty much a predictable outcome in terms of story development...

[Ailis.7910]

Another go. Another fail. Highly organized. All possible buffs, boons, etc. Excellent leading. People knew the mechanics. Hardly any downs during slam, etc. 

2 breakbars - 1 during tail phase. Both times we broke the bar, she IMMEDIATELY swooped. No stun. No nothing. We barely got any chance to DPS her. I got bubbled and whirlpooled 4x. Yes, 4. I realize it's random but my goddess. 

I'm....tired. Demoralized. Frustrated. This isn't about the turtle. Or weapon collections. Or achievements. It's about this open world meta that flies in the face of nearly every other open world meta to this point. 

I can't bring myself to try this again. I just can't. And feeling that for my favorite game? Awful. 
 

ETA: the wombfruit don’t even want to attempt this because they’re both really into the lore and personal story right now and they love tooling around on the open world maps, doing quests, exploring, and every so often, fighting this huge dragon in the middle of the open world that a random group of enough players who happen to be around at the time of spawning can down and hooray loot!

Thats what’s fun for them and, honestly after my oldest put it that way, yes please. It’s fun. It’s immersive. It keeps the imagination going.

That’s their 4¢, anyway. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Ailis.7910

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

I think with this release it was very much geared towards the l33tz or "Hard Core". If you can say hard core because I would wager myself a hard core player and still not a "challenged Player" I'm not here for extreme challenges, a little challenge sure. I think that is a part AreanaNet does not understand. Or it does and they just want every one to be into challenges. There is a place they have built for those in the game. The problem is they are moving them into the rest of the game. In particular a game mode that does not want it. The problem we face here with this event is elsewhere in EoD too. I have tried to solo many events that in any other area, Core, HoT, PoF, LWS and Champions my participation alone would have completed the event successfully. For example: Baubles. I found the hatchery yesterday and proceeded to activate the event and go about enjoying where the "REAL" baubles was and what they were doing. Something veteran players would know about.

 

To my amazement as I kept contributing time and again and I found that the event was scaled so high as to be worthy of a mini SooWon event. Anywhere else I would have succeeded that event. Then someone else arrived and they too appeared to have done the event before and began helping. With the two of us surely we would have succeeded. Yet both of us barely moved the bar enough to see it as being progressed. The event failed and chained nicely into the next event. Was that on design or did we just truly fail? On the second event removing the invasive species we fared better as it was a standard "I swung a sword, I swung a sword again" style event. Even that too was much harder than I would have normally expected. Is that bad? No. Is it what I was looking to do ? No. Did the two of us succeed? Yes, but barely. Had I not been using my skills the second they became available it would have failed for sure.

And this is not the first event in EoD that this was my experience.

 

This is where I feel AreanaNet has gone astray or ignored or just never wanted to accept that there are some, dare I say a majority, of players out there who do enjoy and derive fun from "I swung a sword, I swung a sword again" and a bit of a challenge. That doesn't mean we want to be pressing every key the second it is ready and dodging every 2 seconds, jumping every 3rd attack and spend 40 minutes of every hour or 2 of my play time just getting ready to play!
"GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun"~GW2 Yet the grind to "get good" or be l33tz is the worst grind there is in any game for many of us.

 

So, do I enjoy Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons? A little. I appreciate the adjustments to the one event for which this post was created. I also appreciate the adjustments to improve average win rates in Soo-Won. I appreciate the alternate method of acquisition for the siege turtle ( I hope, haven't seen what it's going to look like to get 200 Write of the Jade Sea) . But this is just one in what seems to be a whole release that suffers from the same problem. along side other launch problems.Another example would be the Junk Yard boss. We stumbled upon it while doing daily's and kept with it as we would normally.  There were about 30 players including us there and no tag. This event too, even with audio and visual tells, half the group would be downed on average a quarter of the group was reviving another 5-10ish players. so only 15-20 were really attacking. Did we win? Did you have to ask? So far Soo-Won IS the theme for EoD content!

 

I just want to "Swing a sword, swing a sword again, swing a sword another time" at as many varied creatures and locations as possible. Until EoD I was all about Guild Wars 2. I hope though this is a phase and like HoT and some things in PoF we will see a return to the old ways that worked, that were fun that, had some challenge not keyboard breaking high speed high stress low payoff.

 

Yes the use of things from past maps was awesome, but we had been asking for that for years! Just about everything you put out we asked to be added to other maps. That is one way to accomplish the goal of showing how one event in a maps time has changed the world. But that wasn't done. It's great you brought them back but for only one battle. I'd like to see them all over Tyria now.

 

Okay I've said my piece about Soo-Won and the meta and EoD. I hope to return and not be so disappointed. I really was looking forward to this release. Mainly because it means you can finally bring us something 100% no Tyrian has experienced. The question is, can you really keep the game fun for all of it's "unique game experiences, including Living World™, World vs. World, Player vs. Player, endgame PvE, and more. "~Colin Johanson?

 

Or are you only "Challenging Content" now?

Edited March 12, 2022 by Seth Moonshadow.2710

[CZDragon.4123]

Each day I see less people in the map.

In 2 or 3 weeks more it will be a death map, the meta it is just unfair and don't see any interest of ANet to fix it.

[subgenius.7649]

Just now, CZDragon.4123 said:

Each day I see less people in the map.

In 2 or 3 weeks more it will be a death map, the meta it is just unfair and don't see any interest of ANet to fix it.

you did read that there is a patch coming on the 15th to address issues?

[Heibi.4251]

9 minutes ago, subgenius.7649 said:

you did read that there is a patch coming on the 15th to address issues?

They aren't fixing anything. They are bowing to the elites and giving the lower players their mount another way. They have no interest in seeing the common player enjoy this META - that's how it reads.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Heibi.4251

[subgenius.7649]

1 minute ago, Heibi.4251 said:

They aren't fixing anything. They are bowing to the elites and giving the lower players their mount another way. They have no interest in seeing the common player enjoy this META - that's how it reads.

Yes the announcement was vague, but they were not exact patchnotes. This patch will be bigger than the daily fixes they were pushing out. Gave themselves enough time to beable to tweek and test things on their end instead of rushed hotfixes. Do not rule out more fiddling in the upcoming patchnotes in a couple days. 

Its all doom and gloom with everyone.

[Aerisskyy.8291]

The Mount is dead, even if the people buy it the strike mission is just as hard with a rng that makes the thing in the strike mission kill off off a 10 man team, theres 5 phases and most peeps can clear up to phase 3 to 4 otherwise the teams well coordinate get slaughtered, im sorry but unless you change that formula as well no strike mssion for the turtle people are going to give up.

[Lonewolf.8602]

On 3/11/2022 at 3:09 AM, Stelawrat.6589 said:

Ah ha! I wonder what would happen if you had a full group of Firebrands only, well organized into offensive & defensive groups. If you ever do that, make sure to record it for us. 😁

EoD Meta Train - Firebrand Fest. Lezzdodiz! 🤣

[Lonewolf.8602]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:49 PM, Linken.6345 said:

So you can start it early is what your saying, you dont have to wait for the 30 min pre event window to finish if all zones are at high?

If not your answer add nothing to what that person is saying should happen.

Nah. NPCs gather at the Jade Valley on a specific time only. So even if all zones are high, the meta still won't start. With Dragon Stand, the map was set to start the meta from the beginning, just waiting for players to gather at the designated zones.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Lonewolf.8602

[Heretic.6928]

I shall not waste time on this any longer. 

At 60%, right as we phased in a try I was in today, Soo-wan did 2 invulnerable moves, wasting 30 - 40 seconds on time basically. 

 

If this is not fixed, the meta is dead in the water. What bothers me is how much still locked behind it. And that this is an integral part of the expansion story. Anyways, let it die. 

[Bagnasty.1687]

This is the only game I play especially since I don't have much free time.  Clearly I really like the game and I've been playing since launch.  But I must say ANET you really screwed the pooch on this EoD meta event.  Honestly about the only thing it will do is drive people away from the game.  I can't imagine anyone going back to that meta if, IF, they hit the lottery and are able to randomly beat it.  It isn't even worthwhile to play and fail since it gives virtually no XP and none of the endless over the top mobs drop any loot.  You wanted to end the game? You certainly did - for a lot of the player base who will abandon this entire expansion.

 

Listen to the players here. Make this playable/enjoyable  or this is most certainly End of Guild Wars 2 (and Dragons of course).

Edited March 12, 2022 by Bagnasty.1687
typo

[Gorem.8104]

5 hours ago, Aerisskyy.8291 said:

The Mount is dead, even if the people buy it the strike mission is just as hard with a rng that makes the thing in the strike mission kill off off a 10 man team, theres 5 phases and most peeps can clear up to phase 3 to 4 otherwise the teams well coordinate get slaughtered, im sorry but unless you change that formula as well no strike mssion for the turtle people are going to give up.

tbh, on the 15th get ready for threads to swap to that. Not sure exactly why after all this they make you have to do a Strike after it. Its not the hardest one and is possible after some time once you've learn it, but like, why make casuals and people who hate grouping, do a strike to earn the thing they advertised in your FACE everywhere about this expac. 

Its like they realllllyy want the 99% to leave and just be left with the 1% elitists. Sure the game will survive that, hahaha. Seriously Anet, why? You made the Jade bot character bound? made you have to sit through a 75% afk dialogue story (and the npc's allow you to even afk most fights, and when they do it you get achievements) nine times to get E-spec weapons (not to mention 2 e-specs need to beat DE to earn it, lol) making the expac rather alt-unfriendly and then you go and make a meta that is not designed for GW2 playerbase which is then followed up by a forced Strike. 

 

The Turtle is not even a good mount! Its basically a toy that does siege damage. Only useful thing is the health buff to your actual useful mounts. 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

5 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

tbh, on the 15th get ready for threads to swap to that. Not sure exactly why after all this they make you have to do a Strike after it. Its not the hardest one and is possible after some time once you've learn it, but like, why make casuals and people who hate grouping, do a strike to earn the thing they advertised in your FACE everywhere about this expac. 

Advertisement wise, they really did a terrible job with it. When they advertised the initial mounts with Path of Fire, they solely focused on mounts that unlocked as you played, which was the right approach back then. How they managed to mess up the Siege Turtle after how they did Path of Fire is beyond me. 

With that said though, it seems the game's community is very helpful with the Strike Mission scenario. I've seen plenty of people running Strikes for Siege Turtle only in order to help other players get the mount, banding together to solve the mess ANet made.

This entire debacle really makes you think about how badly ANet messed this one up that the game's community are the ones having to sort it out for them. 

[Desh.7028]

6 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Not sure exactly why after all this they make you have to do a Strike after it.

 

To get players to engage with it. They're proud of the designs and they're well made and quite forgiving in normal mode. It's just "take a look at this type of content, it's actually more accessible than you think". For some this will not work out and after getting carried they'll try to forget the experience.

Slightly lacking in rewards though. And it's a little weird with the 10 man boon nerf since compositions are literally twice as restrictive now.

[Peth.5179]

Ahh tried it again, hoping in positive effects after tail change, but we were yet once again organized, everything was going well and then of course random RNG prevented us from finishing on time. Now I can wait till Tuesday, to farm events in Dragon's End and get my egg. What an (not) enjoyable experience! If not for the fact that I paid for the expansion, I wouldn't bother with getting the turtle.

[Heibi.4251]

6 minutes ago, Peth.5179 said:

Ahh tried it again, hoping in positive effects after tail change, but we were yet once again organized, everything was going well and then of course random RNG prevented us from finishing on time. Now I can wait till Tuesday, to farm events in Dragon's End and get my egg. What an (not) enjoyable experience! If not for the fact that I paid for the expansion, I wouldn't bother with getting the turtle.

Yep, ANET is just throwing in the towel and not trying to make this META doable by EVERYONE without needing an uber organized map. And even then it might fail. They'd rather let the elite dictate who can be successful on this META using LI to weed out the weak. If they would just put their ego aside and adjust the event to a proper level this map would live on. After the 15th it will die out. I really wanted to be successful on the META but now it will never be. I've had fails on every group I've been in. Also remember, all the class ascended weapon achievements are also tied to the end meta. They were expecting us to play the story 9 times through on different toons. So unless you're one of those people who can effectively play every class kiss those achievements goodbye as well.

ANET?  echo echo echo echo....chirping of crickets heard in the background.

[yann.1946]

1 hour ago, Heibi.4251 said:

Yep, ANET is just throwing in the towel and not trying to make this META doable by EVERYONE without needing an uber organized map. And even then it might fail. They'd rather let the elite dictate who can be successful on this META using LI to weed out the weak. If they would just put their ego aside and adjust the event to a proper level this map would live on. After the 15th it will die out. I really wanted to be successful on the META but now it will never be. I've had fails on every group I've been in. Also remember, all the class ascended weapon achievements are also tied to the end meta. They were expecting us to play the story 9 times through on different toons. So unless you're one of those people who can effectively play every class kiss those achievements goodbye as well.

ANET?  echo echo echo echo....chirping of crickets heard in the background.

All sucesfull groups ive been a part of where groups who didnt ask li. Which megaserver are you on?

Edit: There are also no "chirping of crickets" as you said, they have said that they are still making balance changes

Edited March 12, 2022 by yann.1946

[Preppy.7046]

There's various achievements and story aspects (notably "Looking Back") hidden behind a successful meta.  Given that, I think it's fair to presume that they'll actually again try to fix the glaring issues with this fight on the 15th.  They mentioned they want "most people to succeed", and that's clearly not where this RNG-fest is right now.

[Heibi.4251]

2 hours ago, Preppy.7046 said:

There's various achievements and story aspects (notably "Looking Back") hidden behind a successful meta.  Given that, I think it's fair to presume that they'll actually again try to fix the glaring issues with this fight on the 15th.  They mentioned they want "most people to succeed", and that's clearly not where this RNG-fest is right now.

I saw that too. Gotta do the meta for a lot of different achievements.

I find the statement "most people to succeed"(doable by most people) strange. Are they saying there are people they don't want to succeed? Perhaps they mean the hearing impaired, the older folks(like myself), some with arthritis, people with hand/wrist issues? Are those the people they don't want to succeed? I wonder. Care to elaborate, ANET, on who the people you don't want to succeed are? You should want EVERYONE to succeed.(It's 10years of story build up and you only want some people to succeed in the final battle?)

Edited March 12, 2022 by Heibi.4251