Is there a reason to play elementalist ?

[Genericname.7523]

Hello, After 3 years, i'm back in GW2. Elementalist is the class that i played the most but today, i cannot find any reason to keep playing my elem. 

 

I have the feeling that Arena just destroyed the class, the new elite specs is useless, it's possible to have one of the strongest dps but you need to spend weeks on golem for masteries this. And i cannot find anyway to play support dps because other class are just better for Many reason. 

 

So, i'm asking to you if the elem has some arguments to be played ? Atm, i feel that he needs a real buff. 

 

( Sorry for my Bad english) 

 

 

[Bleikopf.2491]

I've heard there's going to be a big balance patch in the summer? Still looking for the source on that though to be honest (hadn't had much time to check it yet).

In the end it depens a lot on what you want. I love playing Ele, and no matter how much ANet kicks Ele around with their questionable balance philosophy, I'll keep playing Ele.

If you just want to be the most effective in a given role, play something else and pray ANet doesn't stomp it into nothingness the next patch.

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Genericname.7523 said:

Hello, After 3 years, i'm back in GW2. Elementalist is the class that i played the most but today, i cannot find any reason to keep playing my elem. 

 

I have the feeling that Arena just destroyed the class, the new elite specs is useless, it's possible to have one of the strongest dps but you need to spend weeks on golem for masteries this. And i cannot find anyway to play support dps because other class are just better for Many reason. 

 

So, i'm asking to you if the elem has some arguments to be played ? Atm, i feel that he needs a real buff. 

 

( Sorry for my Bad english) 

 

 

Hey! Elementalist is still very viable in almost any gamemode. Sadly it is condensed down to fireweaver and support tempest.

Fireweaver with sword/focus is one of the strongest builds atm. Freshair sceptre can be viable aswell but you need to be really good.

I wouldnt mess with catalyst... and if you do i would go for a D/D build. Hammer in general is a hot pile of garbage.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[scarlettmoonbabe.6932]

21 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Hey! Elementalist is still very viable in almost any gamemode. Sadly it is condensed down to fireweaver and support tempest.

Fireweaver with sword/focus is one of the strongest builds atm. Freshair sceptre can be viable aswell but you need to be really good.

I wouldnt mess with catalyst... and if you do i would go for a D/D build. Hammer in general is a hit pile of garbage.

even support tempest lost a lot of it's shine with all the boons and healing only affecting 5 targets instead of 10 now. heal tempest is my favorite class too but now i cant run it in groups where "meta" is required

[Sahne.6950]

1 minute ago, scarlettmoonbabe.6932 said:

even support tempest lost a lot of it's shine with all the boons and healing only affecting 5 targets instead of 10 now. heal tempest is my favorite class too but now i cant run it in groups where "meta" is required

i dont really mess with pve alot. for spvp and WvW they are still okayish and arguably meta even. recent pvp changes try to get supporttempest in the meta again, altho the buffed the wrong build xD they buffed earth/water/tempest instead of the fire/water/tempest build.

[AliamRationem.5172]

13 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Hey! Elementalist is still very viable in almost any gamemode. Sadly it is condensed down to fireweaver and support tempest.

Fireweaver with sword/focus is one of the strongest builds atm. Freshair sceptre can be viable aswell but you need to be really good.

I wouldnt mess with catalyst... and if you do i would go for a D/D build. Hammer in general is a hit pile of garbage.

This sounds like a PvP/WvW roaming-centric view. 

On the PvE side of things, Roul has benchmarks for DPS Catalyst at 44.5k and full uptime quickness share Catalyst at 36.8k and condi sword weaver is one of the strongest solo play builds in any scenario that doesn't punish melee too heavily.  Tempest also has some good low-intensity builds that perform well with less complexity than is inherent to weaver gameplay.

There are definitely areas where elementalist builds perform well.  But if you're expecting to be clearly the best at anything in exchange for the relative complexity of the class, you're likely to be disappointed.

[scarlettmoonbabe.6932]

12 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i dont really mess with pve alot. for spvp and WvW they are still okayish and arguably meta even. recent pvp changes try to get supporttempest in the meta again, altho the buffed the wrong build xD they buffed earth/water/tempest instead of the fire/water/tempest build.

i mostly play wvw and have people contantly telling me tempest is worthless and to get a heal scrapper, but that's just for zergs so i've been avoiding joining them lately. i still find it fun so i still play it

edit: unless you REALLY like the vibe and feel of elementalist, i reccomend avoiding it. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by scarlettmoonbabe.6932

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, Genericname.7523 said:

Hello, After 3 years, i'm back in GW2. Elementalist is the class that i played the most but today, i cannot find any reason to keep playing my elem. 

 

I have the feeling that Arena just destroyed the class, the new elite specs is useless, it's possible to have one of the strongest dps but you need to spend weeks on golem for masteries this. And i cannot find anyway to play support dps because other class are just better for Many reason. 

 

So, i'm asking to you if the elem has some arguments to be played ? Atm, i feel that he needs a real buff. 

 

( Sorry for my Bad english) 

 

 

actually there is 1 thing to be said about gw2. Alot of people will punch me in the face for saying that but..... you can play what you want, wherever you want. If you really FEEL a class you will perform good on it, no matter what people are telling you. If you are vibing really hard with a specific build, you will always be better then just picking a random build from someone else, just because you are told that its supposed to be good. Everyone and their dog will tell you that Ventari-Revenant is straight up garbage.. YET i am rocking it nonstop and i am doing absolutely fine with it. I know core Staffelementalist that will beat almost anyone in these forums here... Yet people are screaming that Staff is kitten(which it is! pls buff Staff ele!) Just play what you want and you will perform good.

Except Warrior, that profession is just straight up nerfed into oblivion :C #MakeWarriorgreatagain

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[vardeleanu.8972]

3 hours ago, Genericname.7523 said:

Hello, After 3 years, i'm back in GW2. Elementalist is the class that i played the most but today, i cannot find any reason to keep playing my elem. 

 

I have the feeling that Arena just destroyed the class, the new elite specs is useless, it's possible to have one of the strongest dps but you need to spend weeks on golem for masteries this. And i cannot find anyway to play support dps because other class are just better for Many reason. 

 

So, i'm asking to you if the elem has some arguments to be played ? Atm, i feel that he needs a real buff. 

 

( Sorry for my Bad english) 

 

 

do you like the defeated soundtrack ?

[Jtoon.6907]

Fun. It’s the class I play that allows me to enjoy the game. I often play Scrapper to help my WVW guild but if I want to enjoy the game I play Elementalist. 

[Jski.6180]

There no "good" reason to play ele any more. You can pretend that your doing something in a big fight with auras and field combo but you will never know what realty going on because the very UI seems to not want to understand what the class can and can not do.

But ya ele lacks too many effects and is "kitten" and nerfed by anet to often to ever be a viable class in the long run.

Every thing that is hit box base dps will be nerfed and has been nerfed often its just an issues of time. The lack of strong boons in a real ability of use or the ability to apply enofe of (not even perma) is a massive hold on what ele can do as an class. Even the lack of healing utility as well as condi clear utility on there own and with out eating 2 trait lines to make them of use will always keep the ele class weaker then say classes whom have build in healing / condi clear from one batten press no training needed.

Its a fun class for sure but you will often not add as much to a fight as other classes and if you do no one will ever know.

[SeTect.5918]

Ele is very fun, but some groups, including fractals CM groups sometimes are afraid because ele has so low sustain.
Few weeks ago when I did daily T4 and there was nightmare as daily, one asked if we want to do it in CM and one other said: "Not with ele".
If ele could only get a bit sustain in the dps buids, it would be great to help to get it in more groups.

Dps of ele is great, but ele is maybe the class that has the least sustain in the dps build. Ele is my 2nd fav class (maybe will swap to my fav class next time) but for real, the sustain in the dps build is really totally lacking.

Ele can gain good sustain.
Ele has good dps.

The problem is just: You have both good dps and good sustain as ele bc u have to swap out tons of stuff for sustain.

Mostly talking about weaver and dps tempest here.
Support tempest got killed with 5 boon/heal update.

Groups now need 2 quick and alac and heals. So most grps use alac-heal or quick-heal so theres no room for tempest support or druid anymore.

Edited March 7, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[frareanselm.1925]

4 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Hey! Elementalist is still very viable in almost any gamemode. Sadly it is condensed down to fireweaver and support tempest.

Fireweaver with sword/focus is one of the strongest builds atm. Freshair sceptre can be viable aswell but you need to be really good.

I wouldnt mess with catalyst... and if you do i would go for a D/D build. Hammer in general is a hot pile of garbage.

It's not about viability. It's that you have to do a complex and long rotation to do the same DPS than a easy potato reaper.

The more complex the rotation the more mistakes you make and less enjoy the combat.

[SeTect.5918]

30 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

It's not about viability. It's that you have to do a complex and long rotation to do the same DPS than a easy potato reaper.

The more complex the rotation the more mistakes you make and less enjoy the combat.

I actually like the difficult rota, but u also have 0 self boons and maybe least sustain of all dps builds, thats my problem with ele.

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I actually like the difficult rota, but u also have 0 self boons and maybe least sustain of all dps builds, thats my problem with ele.

You can get some self boons but you have to effectively build every thing on your ele to get them where other classes just get them passively. Always been a problem with ele you must go all in though traits to get any thing of real use for your class.

Just look at ele utility set your best bet is what 3 stack of might when untrated from glyph. Even the shouts from tempest have a low duration boon on them at best. You have to put soo much into ele utility and effects to make them worth any thing but your effectively killing your own over all effect of being an "cele" class to even be called such a thing. Your more likely to call a class whom has a 1 butten press to give effect as an "cele" class (see all other classes then ele).

Its just crazy how much the ele class is lacking the only "eleish" thing in the game is lacking effects not having them.

[SeTect.5918]

3 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

You can get some self boons but you have to effectively build every thing on your ele to get them where other classes just get them passively. Always been a problem with ele you must go all in though traits to get any thing of real use for your class.

Yea thats what I meant basically 😄 Same goes for the sustain

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

I've heard there's going to be a big balance patch in the summer? Still looking for the source on that though to be honest (hadn't had much time to check it yet).

In the end it depens a lot on what you want. I love playing Ele, and no matter how much ANet kicks Ele around with their questionable balance philosophy, I'll keep playing Ele.

If you just want to be the most effective in a given role, play something else and pray ANet doesn't stomp it into nothingness the next patch

Summer patch was stated in the news article they launched talking about banner and spirits rework. 

Although no confirmination to what changes to expect just they mention skill / trait reworks and major changes as being why they're delayed 

[Laken.9018]

The problem with Ele is  what I call the pain in the kitten to outcome ratio.
Ele's have incredibly complex rotations, requiring precise timing to get right and in return you do maybe 1 or 2k more damage than similar classes that can click 3 buttons and throw out the same damage output.

For some reason Arenanet have killed every core skill in the class. They seem to want you to play it as a melee class despite GW1 ele being a ranged spiker/burst.  The  water and earth trait lines are basically redundant. 
It got so bad that I basically quit the game because got sick of always going down.

I've tried 3 alternate classes since POF.
Engineer/Guardian and the biggest most result insult Necro and all 3 seem to just do what Ele can and more easily.
Necro in particular is really upsetting as it has more hp and yet more tankyness and damage than the Ele could ever dream of with none of the complexity.

[Puck.3697]

38 minutes ago, Laken.9018 said:

The problem with Ele is  what I call the pain in the kitten to outcome ratio.
Ele's have incredibly complex rotations, requiring precise timing to get right and in return you do maybe 1 or 2k more damage than similar classes that can click 3 buttons and throw out the same damage output.

For some reason Arenanet have killed every core skill in the class. They seem to want you to play it as a melee class despite GW1 ele being a ranged spiker/burst.  The  water and earth trait lines are basically redundant. 
It got so bad that I basically quit the game because got sick of always going down.

I've tried 3 alternate classes since POF.
Engineer/Guardian and the biggest most result insult Necro and all 3 seem to just do what Ele can and more easily.
Necro in particular is really upsetting as it has more hp and yet more tankyness and damage than the Ele could ever dream of with none of the complexity.

This is the problem. 

To balance the game where the more complex the build the stronger it is makes the game vastly unaccessible. Such balancing would cause a riot larger then the dragons end meta is generating. 

You have to balance everything inline and then simply give different difficulty levels across the board. 

Your susposed to pick the complexity for enjoyment not profit in mmorpgs. 

Otherwise your simply telling older people, people with disabilities or physical injuries they simply can't play your game. 

If your enjoying the complexity, you won't find it a "pain in the kitten", because it's Fun in your eyes. If your choosing to play a complex proffession for a different reason you prolly should stop playing it.

Play what you enjoy and only what you enjoy. 

They would strip elementalist of difficulty faster then they would consider making it overpowered because of its complexity 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Daulnay.4971]

Yes, here's what you can do with a Catalyst elementalist build, Dagger/Focus/Conjures...good soloing/JOAT (and this is elite gear, no food/utilites, no outside buffs).  Actual build's left for you to figure out, since that's part of the fun of the game.

Health: 27,985
Toughness: 2,097
Power: 2,097 (Before might, any attunement) | 3,537 (After might, in fire attunement)
Crit Chance: 57.27% (Before fury) | 77.27% (After fury)
Crit Damage: 209.84%
Condition Damage: 897 (Before might) | 1,797 (After might)

 

Condition Duration: +58.88%

Healing Power: 897

Boon Duration: +58.88%

Conjure Bonuses: Flame Axe: +216 Power, +216 Condition Damage Frost Bow: +20% Condition Duration, +216 Healing Power Lightning Hammer: +10.25% Crit Chance, +6% Crit Damage Earth Shield: +2,376 Health, +216 Toughness Fiery Greatsword: +312 Power, +216 Condition Damage

 

[Isshagal.3016]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

This is the problem. 

To balance the game where the more complex the build the stronger it is makes the game vastly unaccessible. Such balancing would cause a riot larger then the dragons end meta is generating. 

You have to balance everything inline and then simply give different difficulty levels across the board. 

Your susposed to pick the complexity for enjoyment not profit in mmorpgs. 

Wow.

No.

Not in any game ever.

Higher difficulty/complexity should get you achievements or results if you meet the requirements.

It's why whole sections of achievements exist in this game, or why it were implemented ever. As proof of skill to show of.

There's always low risk/reward and high risk/reward options.

When both high risk and low risk offer the same reward it's bad design and no incentive to try harder, try different things or get better.

 

Why then autoatack doesnt do 30k dps  and 30k heal so you can do all content just by keeping #1 pressed?

All other skills are just complexity for your enjoyment after all.

 

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

They would strip elementalist of difficulty faster then they would consider making it overpowered because of its complexity 

Yes. Either give skills proper weight or reduce CD's so missing important 30/50s cooldown isn't as punishable or increase the reward for trying harder than others.

[Genericname.7523]

Thanks you for your answer, i have read all of these. 

I totaly agree what you said about no sustain and no passiv boon. I tried so many build and easy rotation but there is no way to reach 25k. Staff was a good weapon with great dmg and slow animation that gives you time to make a good rotation without mistake but today staff is just Bad at all for dps build

 

I'm trying to play condi alacrity mirage and this is so funny because most of time i'm lost into my rotation and just smash dodge then aa but my dps isnt bad at all and i share a lot of Boon. 

When i do a mistake as elem your dps just drop so hard, or you just died because of 12k HP. 

 

I think i will make a break and leave my elem, and please Arena if you read this message just make elem great again because this is a kittening good class.

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

This is the problem. 

To balance the game where the more complex the build the stronger it is makes the game vastly unaccessible. Such balancing would cause a riot larger then the dragons end meta is generating. 

You have to balance everything inline and then simply give different difficulty levels across the board. 

Your susposed to pick the complexity for enjoyment not profit in mmorpgs. 

Otherwise your simply telling older people, people with disabilities or physical injuries they simply can't play your game. 

If your enjoying the complexity, you won't find it a "pain in the kitten", because it's Fun in your eyes. If your choosing to play a complex proffession for a different reason you prolly should stop playing it.

Play what you enjoy and only what you enjoy. 

They would strip elementalist of difficulty faster then they would consider making it overpowered because of its complexity 

Okay, but is it justified that ele doesn't even have access to the critical boons groups require?  Fine.  We have to play the double-decker piano while they just roll face, but at least give us the ability.  Self-boons?  Same thing.  Why is my grandmaster might generation trait to burn off 10 stacks of my own might even in solo play so that I can share it with others when other classes can just generate might for everyone no problem?  Where's my quickness on weaver?  It arguably has more use for it than other classes.  Why don't I have the ability to apply some to myself?

There's a laundry list of ways ele falls short of other classes.  I can agree that they shouldn't stand head and shoulders above the rest because we don't want to force the meta to be all about complexity, but there should at least be some semblance of parity here.  Inexplicably, there isn't.

 

[Puck.3697]

9 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Okay, but is it justified that ele doesn't even have access to the critical boons groups require?  Fine.  We have to play the double-decker piano while they just roll face, but at least give us the ability.  Self-boons?  Same thing.  Why is my grandmaster might generation trait to burn off 10 stacks of my own might even in solo play so that I can share it with others when other classes can just generate might for everyone no problem?  Where's my quickness on weaver?  It arguably has more use for it than other classes.  Why don't I have the ability to apply some to myself?

There's a laundry list of ways ele falls short of other classes.  I can agree that they shouldn't stand head and shoulders above the rest because we don't want to force the meta to be all about complexity, but there should at least be some semblance of parity here.  Inexplicably, there isn't.

 

Well no my reply wasn't to state elementalist should be behind other proffessions. The OP expressed concerns around DPS performance based on difficulty. 

Everything should realistically be balanced as close as humanly possible, I'm just saying I doubt Anet will ever make elementalist stronger then another option based on complexity so if that's a requirement to him putting in extra effort he won't see a return he wants. 

Elementalist defintly needs help, becsuse it's behind other options which isn't rly right either. 

2 hours ago, Isshagal.3016 said:

o.

Not in any game ever.

Higher difficulty/complexity should get you achievements or results if you meet the requirements.

It's why whole sections of achievements exist in this game, or why it were implemented ever. As proof of skill to show of.

There's always low risk/reward and high risk/reward options.

When both high risk and low risk offer the same reward it's bad design and no incentive to try harder, try different things or get better.

 

Why then autoatack doesnt do 30k dps  and 30k heal so you can do all content just by keeping #1 pressed?

All other skills are just complexity for your enjoyment after

What are you honestly talking about. 

We are talking proffession to Proffession difficulty and should a harder proffession do more DPS then a easier proffession? 

I ain't talking about internal builds... 

I.e 

Should a elementalist be better then a ranger based on its complexity comparitively to ranger. 

Name a game which would directly ensure one class was more powerful then the other on the bases of its complexity.

Achievements. And content can be rewarding based on difficulty ofcourse.... Classes / proffessions however most defintly arent balanced based on difficulty. If anything id say more games tend to make the easier choices better 😂😂

Playing a easier proffession in a sense makes all content easier by default as your removing spinning plates each time u take s easier route. 

I.E if u play scourge. With a rotation of 1 2 3  4 5 and spam shades as much as possible with no use of weapon swap you remove the need to remember a rotation or look at buttons which makes focusing on mechanics easier. 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Laken.9018]

Ranger is an medium armor class so I'd say no but an Ele should at least be on equal footing to either a Mesmer or a Necro who share the Light Armor type and thats nots what going on here.

Both those classes have more hp and overall do more damage easily than an Ele. and thats the problem.
I enjoy Ele's. I like the skills. Heck I find Catalyst fun but at the same time as mentioned prior the mountain to make the class work often makes me wonder if its worth it.