A future nerf prediction to either soulbeast or untamed in the summer patch [Merged]

[volca.7234]

So we know that in summer core ranger (& core warrior) will get access to either quickness or alacrity as a boon, and its about time tbh having it on core ranger also open the space up for core support

However there is couple of problematic interactions that might arise from it on ranger's E specs

If ranger gets quickness, soulbeast will be bit broken cuz essence of speed exists, So perma boon soulbeast could become a thing..

If ranger gets alacrity, Untamed would be kinda in the OP territory because of the already strong synergy between quick draw and fervent force

So what do you think? will they get nerfed? will they stay as is? is the interaction not really that OP and is just a nice thing to have? Im really curious how will the summer patch look like for ranger.

Edited March 22, 2022 by volca.7234
English is the Dhumn CM of langauges.

[Dr Meta.3158]

Soulbeast right now is the only problem ranger spec and mainly due a combonation of ridiculously high stacking modifiers on merged form, high mobility, bugged high range, strong defensive abilities and access to smokescale which is far too powerful both as a pet and as a general mob in open world.

Adjusting modifiers for merged form and removing smokescale from the game would be beneficial for every gamemode.

[Butater.6742]

Furious Strength is still bugged. Doesn't give the +15% damage increase when in Fury.

[Hellion.2360]

Are you talking OW wise, pve, pvp, wvw? Since each of them have a very different need. 

For instance, 

In PvE perma boons on yourself arent THAT powerful considering most parties in strikes/fracs/raids are organized in a way to cover them already. Even in PvP it isnt that powerful, take a look at power Herald. And finally in OW who really cares if there is a class who dominates that field, it's not competitive aspect of the game and why not give the players a feeling of over-powerness? (never saw someone who complains about some spec being OP in OW, but saw some who complain about a class being weak ofc)

 

And don't make me laugh talking about that abomination called "unplayed". Even at +10% static dmg increase it's still sh*t and feels bad to play and fills 0 roles in the current meta. Even in OW it's like slapping mobs with a wet noodle just waiting for them to get bored to death.

 

(aint talking about WvW since i dont really have any exp with it)

Edited March 22, 2022 by Hellion.2360

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

First off Soulbeast is the kitten that's destroying ranger yet so few realize this thinking untamed is the devil (outside WvW, where sb is top dog cause of pet merge).

Soulbeast's free stats and merged skills make it's damage way higher than other specs which causes A-net to balance ranger around it, leaving all else in the dust.
Nerf the hell outta sb damage output, buff core, and then all 3 (sb, core, untamed) will have competitive dps.

Ranger should get alac. Untamed will not be broken, because 100% alac uptime is not something unheard of (hi support mechanist). And it'll be very fair and balanced. Spirit boons will see use on each e-spec.

Druid will add some boons to his healing with them.
SB will have wider support options with mix of spirits and shared stances.
Untamed will not have any of that, but due to cooldown cutting will be able to output them boons 24/7.

Edited March 22, 2022 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Abyssisis.3971]

^ ???
 

Ranger is balanced around having a pet fighting beside it.
Druid took a hit with pets having reduced stats.

Balance patch nerfed all rangers specs twice, first by nerfing personal damage output, then pet damage output, that’s why ranger and druids don’t have competitive damage.

Soulbeast “free stats” when merged are in exchange for having a pet fighting beside you.

Untamed suffers from several issues none of which includes Soulbeast.

 

🤦‍♂️

 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

13 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

^ ???
 

Ranger is balanced around having a pet fighting beside it.
Druid took a hit with pets having reduced stats.

Balance patch nerfed all rangers specs twice, first by nerfing personal damage output, then pet damage output, that’s why ranger and druids don’t have competitive damage.

Soulbeast “free stats” when merged are in exchange for having a pet fighting beside you.

Untamed suffers from several issues none of which includes Soulbeast.

 

🤦‍♂️

 

Pet my kitten. It barely does any damage anyway. And when I'm talking soulbeast issue I'm talking things like Sic'em when merged, Attack of Opportunity from maul when merged, and ability to cut out kitten parts of waepon rotation via pet merge and it's skills (Red Moa marge during longbow rotation when all cool stuff is on cd).

But yeah, that insane ferocity boost when merged is also a topic for discussion.

[Abyssisis.3971]

18 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Pet my kitten. It barely does any damage anyway. And when I'm talking soulbeast issue I'm talking things like Sic'em when merged, Attack of Opportunity from maul when merged, and ability to cut out kitten parts of waepon rotation via pet merge and it's skills (Red Moa marge during longbow rotation when all cool stuff is on cd).

But yeah, that insane ferocity boost when merged is also a topic for discussion.

Even with those damage mod, soulbeast damage output is only middle tier. Yes it is bursty when you combine all those mods together with one wolf pack, but outside of that burst, it’s nothing to write home about in any game mode.

[Dr Meta.3158]

From the reactions on this thread. I'm guessing most of the people reading this thread are part of the "deals less than 10% of the damage of top players" category.

[Abyssisis.3971]

12 minutes ago, Metaologist.2487 said:

From the reactions on this thread. I'm guessing most of the people reading this thread are part of the "deals less than 10% of the damage of top players" category.

I wonder where you sit with after reading your earlier comment? 😂
 

“Soulbeast right now is the only problem ranger spec and mainly due a combonation of ridiculously high stacking modifiers on merged form, high mobility, bugged high range, strong defensive abilities and access to smokescale which is far too powerful both as a pet and as a general mob in open world.

Adjusting modifiers for merged form and removing smokescale from the game would be beneficial for every gamemode.”

 

I find it funny you are struggling with smokescale in pve and want it removed lol

[Dr Meta.3158]

12 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

I wonder where you sit with after reading your earlier comment? 😂
 

 

“Soulbeast right now is the only problem ranger spec and mainly due a combonation of ridiculously high stacking modifiers on merged form, high mobility, bugged high range, strong defensive abilities and access to smokescale which is far too powerful both as a pet and as a general mob in open world.

Adjusting modifiers for merged form and removing smokescale from the game would be beneficial for every gamemode.”

 

I find it funny you are struggling with smokescale in pve and want it removed lol

Its a matter of calling out a fundamental lack of understanding of the ranger class which leads to the confused reactions when I call out specific problem areas that Zefthewicked expanded upon. I cannot account for lack of reading comprehension. That is a failing on the public school systems.

[Dadnir.5038]

Odds are high that you'll have to get spirits traited, high boon duration and spirits on your utility skills to have a decent quickness/alacrity uptime (because that's what the devs are currently aiming for)...

So, first you have to take nature magic which hurt quite a bit your performances outside of support. Second you'll have to get boon duration gear to sink your damage output. Lastly you'll need spirits as utility which are barely playable in most of the game.

From the very begining, this future "issue" seem pretty much non-existent.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Dadnir.5038

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

5 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Odds are high that you'll have to get spirits traited, high boon duration and spirits on your utility skills to have a decent quickness/alacrity uptime (because that's what the devs are currently aiming for)...

So, first you have to take nature magic which hurt quite a bit your performances outside of support. Second you'll have to get boon duration gear to sink your damage output. Lastly you'll need spirits as utility which are barely playable in most of the game.

From the very begining, this future "issue" seem pretty much non-existent.

And that's the rose-colored version.
A-net devs hate core professions getting team alac/quickness.
Just take a look at core rev and his alac. Has to be in ventari, has to have salvation traitline (so bye-bye dps) and has to sacrfice all energy (if not small animals along the way) just to upkeep it. 

Guardian can consider itself lucky to have gotten off with just "it's on elite" treatment..

[Hpez.2908]

I'm honestly expecting them to reduce the skill cooldown reduction of Fervent Force. I hope they won't since I'm really enjoying it. Not sure if my overall DPS is comparable with that of Soulbeast but I'm spamming skills like mad.

[Infusion.7149]

36.5K pDPS soulbeast, 37.6K hybrid soulbeast, 36K condi soulbeast d/t + shortbow , 33K condi shortbow lazy mode. There's variety there and I wouldn't expect much change in terms of soulbeast (if they want to powercreep all DPS to 40K maybe some DPS added on).

Untamed however is under-performing and really should be able to output CC on par with warriors at the minimum while using hammer, if not on par with renegades (600CC on <12s cooldown). The most I've seen with fervent force + marksmanship + skirmishing is ~29K. In theory you would be able to attain 32K or so due to the increase to Vow of Untamed from the last beta's +15% modifier to +25%. Oddly enough people don't seem to be using the +15% from Ferocious Symbiosis. As far as WVW goes so long as you can't stow pet or have it stealth while you are in unleash ranger it is going to more or less roamer only. In PVP conceptually it can replace core ranger due to innate vitality and traits that emulate wilderness survival.

Let's not forget about druid. In PVP/WVW it is more or less decap only or ancient seeds spam. Astral force needs to be retuned after Feb 2020 damage and healing changes.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

wait what? 29k on power untamed? That's kittening solid. Let alone pre vow buff. Can I get more detail on that build and rotation?

[Sylvi.8372]

8 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Even with those damage mod, soulbeast damage output is only middle tier. Yes it is bursty when you combine all those mods together with one wolf pack, but outside of that burst, it’s nothing to write home about in any game mode.

 

Agreed there. Power Slb is so reliant on burst and phases. Depending on the fight, it may even be low middle tier if you can’t get the burst in at the right time.
It has a high skill floor due to animation locks, and a high skill ceiling in that only some of the players with really fast reaction times (and a lot of practice) can make the most of exposed opportunities.

(For all that effort, may as well chill with single SB condi Slb and save your hands.) Meanwhile several specs can easily reach almost 30k DPS just auto-attacking the golem. 😆 While there are those with a priority list and no animation locks that have top tier DPS.

___________________

PS. Everyone, I wouldn’t worry too much about what’s currently meta. What’s top often gets nerfed to average anyway. The wheel turns, what’s popular now can change later.

 

[Sylvi.8372]

On another note regarding Untamed: For what it’s worth, I think it gives us for many years what Ranger couldn’t do. Normal shadowstep (not the merged Smokescale one). Boonrip and boon corrupt. A pet-focused playstyle.

I think Untamed’s real problem is that it pales in comparison. Soulbeast has better DPS, Druid does support & healing better.
Mechanist has the cooler pet, stuff we could only dream of from our pet/minion as a new core ranger player, but didn’t get. What can it contribute to WvW zergs? What is its place in the current team compositions?

[Abyssisis.3971]

7 hours ago, Metaologist.2487 said:

Its a matter of calling out a fundamental lack of understanding of the ranger class which leads to the confused reactions when I call out specific problem areas that Zefthewicked expanded upon. I cannot account for lack of reading comprehension. That is a failing on the public school systems.

Ah ha, yep, you keep telling yourself that next time a soulbeast wreaks you at wvw lol
 

 

 

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

17 hours ago, Butater.6742 said:

Furious Strength is still bugged. Doesn't give the +15% damage increase when in Fury.

Is this also bugged in PvP?

 

[Substance E.4852]

20 hours ago, Metaologist.2487 said:

Adjusting modifiers for merged form and removing smokescale from the game would be beneficial for every gamemode.

haha, no

[Butater.6742]

1 hour ago, Nimbus Nomad.1237 said:

Is this also bugged in PvP?

 

I am not sure. I haven't tried PVP content yet. Also, I already sent a support ticket regarding this one. And they said that the problem is complex that they will need sometime to fix it. HAHAHAHAHA.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Butater.6742

[Substance E.4852]

1 minute ago, Butater.6742 said:

I am not sure. I haven't tried PVP content yet. Also, I already sent a support ticket regarding this one. And they said that the problem is complex that they will need sometime to fix it. HAHAHAHAHA.

It's being handled by the guy who's taking 9 years to figure out why pets don't get any benefit from quickness

[Butater.6742]

3 minutes ago, Substance E.4852 said:

It's being handled by the guy who's taking 9 years to figure out why pets don't get any benefit from quickness

GM Zippy the Wonder Squirrel is the name of the one who responded me.

[Cytoplasma.8216]

hey guys the news has arrived regarding the balance Do you think that it gives our new ranger finally access to pve content - strike fractals or raids?

 

What U think ? What Ur speculations ?