Acquiring Gift of Battle Is Hell

[Ashantara.8731]

On 3/22/2022 at 5:55 PM, Hellion.2360 said:

especially player who do not have the warclaw mount

The warclaw got nerfed so badly that it doesn't really matter all that much when it comes to keeping up with your zerg. Just for your information, if that's something that worries you.

[Erise.5614]

8 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Doing dailies to get 80 potions for an entire reward track (which won't be fully needed since the reward track also progresses while doing the dailies) reduces this time roughly by half.

Let's assume 20m per day spent doing the easiest dailies (because the vet creature spawns roughly every 15m and you might be waiting for it).  Assume 6 potions per day (although it will probably be 4-5 from skipping the harder/longer dailies and we're also assuming some reward track progression to obtain the potions) That's about 13 days which ends up being 4 hours.  Even if it takes another day or two because my math is an extremely rough estimate filled with lots of assumptions just for illustration purposes, it's still significantly less time than grinding through an entire reward track without potions and boosters (the wiki lists a comparable minimal reward track grind with all potions and boosters).

"The minimum time for completing a reward track (without boosters) is 8h 35m (103 ticks), where 195 points are earned per tick. The overall minimal time to complete a reward track is 3h 50m (46 ticks), where all available boosters increases the points per tick from 195 to 438. "

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Reward_Track

Why are WvW people always calculating with the most perfected and optimized style of play?

Sure, you may be able to pull that off. You may know about these things. But that's not the reality for people who don't play WvW.

I don't think I've ever needed less than 30+ minutes to complete dailies (if I've done them). And let's do assume more like 4 from skipping harder ones. Now it's 9 hours. Sure, we get ticks as well so realistically 6 - 7. But still. Anyone less interested in WvW will notice immediately how wrong the numbers put forward here are. Simply by experience. 

[Pyriel.4370]

On 3/22/2022 at 4:55 PM, Hellion.2360 said:

WHY on tyria we STILL need to do WvW on order to get gift of battle?

Why forcing players to do a pvp game mode? 

Anet made MC and clovers much more spread out through the game modes on the base of "if u dont like X go do Y", why not with that horrible gift of battle?

Don't give that stupid answer of "just afk for 5h" or "just go with a zerg for 4h" or "just do dailies for 15min over 1-2weeks" the game mode is not for everyone, especially player who do not have the warclaw mount and besides, don't u prefer to PLAY the game and not afk for 5h?

I and others want to play game mode we ENJOY doing or at least are close to what we are doing, aka, PvE players can go do PvE stuff (OW, strikes, dead raids, fracs)  and PvP players can go do PvP and WvW.

 

It blows my mind how anet didnt addressed that horrible design of theirs, is it to force ppl to play WvW or just for saying "f the PvE players, they can go run on foot for hours and die to a random zerg hahaha"

 

SALT 🧂  🧂  🧂  🧂  🧂  🧂

It’s because when legendaries were first introduced you had to “master” all aspects of the content, save for Spvp (thank the kitten lord). You need to remember where they started.

Bloodstone Shards meant you had to “over level” 200 times or farm 200 skill points. Not so easy before tomes.

Gift of Magic and Might / mystic clovers could be construed as mastering farming and doing events for mats etc. Never mind obtaining enough mystic coins to run the gamble as at first as there was no real alternative originally.

Specific gifts from dungeons meant “mastering a dungeon”. When first introduced they were much harder so getting 500 of x currency was not fast especially when you consider how hard Arah used to be (Lupi was hard as nails, Dwayna avatar was just OP, etc).

Gift of Exploration….WITHOUT MOUNTS! 

250 obsidian shards meant a metric tonne of karma had to be earned so you pretty much had to do every heart and loads of events. There wasn’t an alternative at first.

Even getting a precursor was you either lucked out massively or farmed gold and bought one.

Gift of battle was roughly 500 badges of honor but they changed it as by 2016 you had enough badges of honor from stuff (achieve chests etc) that a gift of battle was just a quick purchase, defeating the object of “mastering”  WvW.  So they added it to a wvw track.

In short, they’re legendaries. They share the same stats with ascended gear but are mainly cosmetic and convenience via stat changing etc. You don’t need them but if you want one, you have to earn it. The game doesn’t owe you legendary gear. 

I never ever heard “man the gift of battle is a bit of a nasty move” from someone who made a legendary weapon. Usually it was gift of fortune or the dyes for bifrost, lodestones for sunrise, etc etc. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Pyriel.4370
Spacing

[Nezekan.2671]

You don't need warclaw, get swiftness. If you have perma swiftness, you can easily keep up with your zerg.

[Hellion.2360]

1 hour ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

It’s because when legendaries were first introduced you had to “master” all aspects of the content, save for Spvp (thank the kitten lord). You need to remember where they started.

Bloodstone Shards meant you had to “over level” 200 times or farm 200 skill points. Not so easy before tomes.

Gift of Magic and Might / mystic clovers could be construed as mastering farming and doing events for mats etc. Never mind obtaining enough mystic coins to run the gamble as at first as there was no real alternative originally.

Specific gifts from dungeons meant “mastering a dungeon”. When first introduced they were much harder so getting 500 of x currency was not fast especially when you consider how hard Arah used to be (Lupi was hard as nails, Dwayna avatar was just OP, etc).

Gift of Exploration….WITHOUT MOUNTS! 

250 obsidian shards meant a metric tonne of karma had to be earned so you pretty much had to do every heart and loads of events. There wasn’t an alternative at first.

Even getting a precursor was you either lucked out massively or farmed gold and bought one.

Gift of battle was roughly 500 badges of honor but they changed it as by 2016 you had enough badges of honor from stuff (achieve chests etc) that a gift of battle was just a quick purchase, defeating the object of “mastering”  WvW.  So they added it to a wvw track.

In short, they’re legendaries. They share the same stats with ascended gear but are mainly cosmetic and convenience via stat changing etc. You don’t need them but if you want one, you have to earn it. The game doesn’t owe you legendary gear. 

I never ever heard “man the gift of battle is a bit of a nasty move” from someone who made a legendary weapon. Usually it was gift of fortune or the dyes for bifrost, lodestones for sunrise, etc etc. 

I've targeted Sunrise the moment i knew it was a thing back 3,500 days ago, i know exactly what it takes to make legy weapons without mounts and only at core game.

 

 

Don't want to comment no more on this thread since my poor expression of my ideas and thoughts about the GoB making it a fiesta of comments. I still think the implementation of GoB is poor yet I'm not going to further details.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

I said it before, as a person that doesn't mind both game modes.

Make the Gift of Battle and Gift of Exploration tradable by a vendor. 
Investigate how much average time is needed for each and let the player trade.

Avid WvW players happy, Avid PvE players happy. 

On a side note: When for example Land Claimer is a daily, check Edge of the Mists. That map regularly resets (Every 2 hours I believe) making the Sentry flags grey again. You can quickly hop on, grab one close to your spawn and leave. 

You can also get Guard killer and Veteran Creature slayer there. The map is a ghost town usually.

[Chaba.5410]

 

12 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

I don't think I've ever needed less than 30+ minutes to complete dailies (if I've done them). And let's do assume more like 4 from skipping harder ones. Now it's 9 hours. Sure, we get ticks as well so realistically 6 - 7. But still. Anyone less interested in WvW will notice immediately how wrong the numbers put forward here are. Simply by experience. 

Doing dailies is still not "several hours of endlessly boring afk gameplay" and it certainly doesn't feel like it.

It's really difficult to extend personal anecdotal experience to others.  That's why I considered something more objective like estimating the average time it takes to do the easiest dailies and excluding longer ones.  Averages exist for a reason.

Even if my numbers are wrong, 9 hours is the calculated MAX time to run a whole reward track without any boosters according to the wiki and 4 is the MIN time with all boosters (doesn't mention potions).  The average falls in between, which is why I wrote: "it's still significantly less time than grinding through an entire reward track without potions and boosters" so you're not really saying anything I didn't already say or disproving anything I wrote.

Just because someone is less interested in WvW doesn't preclude them from doing a little research up front to find out the best way to get their GoB.  Not everyone jumps into something blind.  I urge you to review how you're playing if you're really spending nine hours.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[Raizel.8175]

Rejoice, you can now P2W your GoB through Black Lion Chests.

[Bollocks.4078]

I think a lot of people are stretching things a bit on getting GoB.  Most of what people list as PvE methods really are not.  Anything that requires going into hostile areas like Camp Capturer, Master of Monuments and Veteran Creature slayer are really not PvE.  There's no way to guarantee that you won't encounter hostile players.  Using boxes of WvW supplies to do the world ranker daily isn't that simple.  First you need one or both converters.  Then you need enough boxes to get two levels.  The ley converter and karmic converter don't give them often enough to always have enough to be able to do that daily any time.  I did that one today and it took 8 boxes.  A few days a go it took 3 boxes.  It's very RnG.  I just happen to have a buch because I was hording them for a while.

For all the people saying a WvW track takes 4-8 hrs, does that account for starting at zero participation and having to build that up?  Does it account for the fact that you don't get anyting for the current timer cycle after first getting into WvW?  I'm sur any good WvWer can do a track in 4-8 hours no problem.  It doesn't makes sense to assume that non WvWers should automatically do it that fast.

I'm mainly PvE and I don't care for WvW but I don't think anything should change.  Making a legendary should require doing difficult content.  I'm currently working on my fourth Legendary.  I already have enough track progress and potions to get my GoB with 21 potions left over.  I've figured out what works for me to get my GoBs.  I think each player needs to figure out what works for them.  You just have to be willing to either take a long time to get it or take more risk to get it faster.

The only alternative method to get GoB that makes sense to me would be to add a PvP reward track.
I don't think it makes sense to make GoB and GoE or any other GoX sellable or tradeable.

[Deihnyx.6318]

GW2 was sold with 3 core elements, PvE Open World, WvW and PvP.

Legendaries aren't meant to be obtained through mere grinding (although that's part of it) but by experiencing the game as a whole.

 

 

[Caliboom.3218]

WvW is not "difficult content". It's just extremely boring.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

Most of what people list as PvE methods really are not.  Anything that requires going into hostile areas like Camp Capturer, Master of Monuments and Veteran Creature slayer are really not PvE.  There's no way to guarantee that you won't encounter hostile players.

If you're referring to anything I wrote, not once did I suggest any of them are PvE methods.  I've characterized them as the easiest.  The only WvW daily that doesn't require any risk of PvP is Big Spender.  There's no way to guarantee that you won't encounter hostile players, but it's also true that many times you won't encounter hostile players.  WvW isn't full 24/7.  It's even reported to be completely dead most of the time, especially Desert borderland.

 

1 hour ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

For all the people saying a WvW track takes 4-8 hrs, does that account for starting at zero participation and having to build that up?  Does it account for the fact that you don't get anyting for the current timer cycle after first getting into WvW?  I'm sur any good WvWer can do a track in 4-8 hours no problem.  It doesn't makes sense to assume that non WvWers should automatically do it that fast.

No, nor should it.  Providing a good enough and fair estimate of reward track completion means reducing certain variables like that one.   Including it would make estimation overly and unnecessarily complex without being able to obtain an average participation level from the data of thousands of players. We don't have access to that data.  Since participation only builds up and doesn't decay when you exit WvW, someone actively doing dailies and not afking is only ever going to max out their participation.  It's the same reason to exclude variables like the Instant Reward Track Progress item from the skirmish rewards which are dependent upon an individual's WxP rank and server's 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place tick.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[ShutUpYou.6985]

Anet should make it sellable so wvw player can gain so much from it. And we dont need someone who throw trebuchet to hit door in wvw please. Let us feed them gift of battle.

[Bollocks.4078]

15 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

If you're referring to anything I wrote, not once did I suggest any of them are PvE methods.  I've characterized them as the easiest.  The only WvW daily that doesn't require any risk of PvP is Big Spender.  There's no way to guarantee that you won't encounter hostile players, but it's also true that many times you won't encounter hostile players.  WvW isn't full 24/7.  It's even reported to be completely dead most of the time, especially Desert borderland.

 

 

If you didn't say "PvE" then my comments are not related to what you said.  The potential for a PvP encounter is always there, 24/7.  I fully agree that there are easy dailies.  I just don't agree with calling them PvE.  If you have Boxes of WvW supplies you can do World Ranker without any risk of PvP.

 

15 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

INo, nor should it.  Providing a good enough and fair estimate of reward track completion means reducing certain variables like that one.   Including it would make estimation overly and unnecessarily complex without being able to obtain an average participation level from the data of thousands of players. We don't have access to that data.  Since participation only builds up and doesn't decay when you exit WvW, someone actively doing dailies and not afking is only ever going to max out their participation.  It's the same reason to exclude variables like the Instant Reward Track Progress item from the skirmish rewards which are dependent upon an individual's WxP rank and server's 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place tick.

I disagree with almost all of this.  It's not rocket science.  Over simplifying and massively understating the time requirements isn't going to help anyone who's struggling with it.  How about we say "4-8 hours if you are already at Tier 6 participation, longer if below T6."  That's pretty simple.  It lets people know that 4-8 hours is best case but depending on participation it may be longer.  Just saying 4-8 hrs is not fair or good enough.  Participation level is retained when you leave WvW but it can decay while you are in WvW.  That's a very important detail.  "...someone actively doing dailies and not afking is only ever going to max out their participation" - this is not entirely true.  You don't get participation for Big Spender.  You have to complete activities in the hostile areas to get participation.  If you happen to get killed you may end up losing some participation.  There are some easy ways to build participation but there's always risk of getting into participation decay.  I do agree that skirmish rewards can be left out of the discussion.  It will be minimal or negligible for someone who does very little WvW and is only in for a GoB.  That still doesn't justify over simplifying other details.

I think if someone is just getting in for short periods to do some quick dailies it's gonna be more about the weeks/months it takes to complete the track with potions and what little track progress they might get along the way.  The hours in WvW becomes secondary at best and possibly even irrelevant.  It will just depend on how much they are depending on Potions vs Participation to progress the track and how much they are doing to increase participation.

[god fragment.5716]

WvW is simple. Get participation to tier 6 then go to a borderlands enemy camp that has recently been captured, kill the 2 scouts and guard, then run from the supervisor and WP to safe zone. AFK 5-15minutes for your side to take the camp and the enemy to take it back. Repeat until you want 🙂 You can also kill guards of keeps and towers in case your side will capture them.

Thats how I got my legendary armor and rings 😁

[BadHealer.3608]

On 3/29/2022 at 9:17 AM, Erise.5614 said:

I don't think I've ever needed less than 30+ minutes to complete dailies (if I've done them).

Sorry, but you are doing it wrong. PVP dailies can (if you win) done in 10 minutes (including waiting time).

 

Many PVE dailies can be done using home ini/guild hall for harvesting.

 

And (back to WvW) there are many that can be done in no time at all. Like going to your guild hall and buying something there or waiting and hitting a monster when it appears.

 

And the best of all you can combine PVP, WvW and PVE dailies together to get your 3 dailies.

[Mazreal Blackknight.1564]

Sure let the WvW crowd sell their GoB why not I have 41 of them chilling in my bank. Just as soon as they give me a reward track that gives me credit for Core Tyria map comp. That is why you have to come to WvW because we still have to do map comp. And they even took out the WvW map comp requirement. Which was annoying as heck.

Right this moment (March 29th 2022) you can buy 80 keys and get your potion of the Mist Rewards (stock up if you want more then 1 GoB) make sure your track is on and go ham friends.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

I disagree with almost all of this.  It's not rocket science.  Over simplifying and massively understating the time requirements isn't going to help anyone who's struggling with it.  How about we say "4-8 hours if you are already at Tier 6 participation, longer if below T6."  That's pretty simple.  It lets people know that 4-8 hours is best case but depending on participation it may be longer.  Just saying 4-8 hrs is not fair or good enough.  Participation level is retained when you leave WvW but it can decay while you are in WvW.  That's a very important detail.  "...someone actively doing dailies and not afking is only ever going to max out their participation" - this is not entirely true.  You don't get participation for Big Spender.  You have to complete activities in the hostile areas to get participation.  If you happen to get killed you may end up losing some participation.  There are some easy ways to build participation but there's always risk of getting into participation decay.  I do agree that skirmish rewards can be left out of the discussion.  It will be minimal or negligible for someone who does very little WvW and is only in for a GoB.  That still doesn't justify over simplifying other details.

I think if someone is just getting in for short periods to do some quick dailies it's gonna be more about the weeks/months it takes to complete the track with potions and what little track progress they might get along the way.  The hours in WvW becomes secondary at best and possibly even irrelevant.  It will just depend on how much they are depending on Potions vs Participation to progress the track and how much they are doing to increase participation.

And I think you're over-blowing how long it will realistically take; making it out as something bigger than it should be.  The participation variable doesn't matter in the bigger picture and it doesn't matter at all when you use a potion from dailies.  You say it's fair to let people know that 8 hours is some sort of best case yet you can't even say how much longer it would be starting from 0 participation!  There's nothing fair about that at all.

It's a moot detail.  The reward track progression from pip chests is also a moot detail, which you agree with.  Entering both those details into the equation is only designed to derail giving people a reasonable expectation of time involved.  It's not rocket science and you're trying to turn it into one.  Let's help people understand efficient and painless ways to get their GoB casually based on objective data we have access to without throwing up obstacles.  If they're using boosters to reduce the amount of time down from 8hrs, which they should, they're also most likely overcoming whatever deficit not starting from full participation there is.  Again, you don't know how long because you've overly-complicated the estimation.

In no way does it take weeks/months to complete a track.  I got the warclaw track done earlier this year on a rank 20 alt core necro during one of the beta restructuring events with the +25% reward track event bonus, celebration booster, guild hall bonus (no amulet enrichment because no ascended amulet) and that's with lots of dying, missing out on participation because of lack of warclaw, lack of proper gear and stats with three or four days of casual play doing just the dailies, including the harder ones so it took a bit longer per day.

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, civokenes.3284 said:

WvW is simple. Get participation to tier 6 then go to a borderlands enemy camp that has recently been captured, kill the 2 scouts and guard, then run from the supervisor and WP to safe zone. AFK 5-15minutes for your side to take the camp and the enemy to take it back. Repeat until you want 🙂 You can also kill guards of keeps and towers in case your side will capture them.

Thats how I got my legendary armor and rings 😁

When I do my WvW dailies I always see a group of allied players always doing the same, running to the same objectives, etc.  If the nearby tower has white swords, they go check if a wall or gate needs repair to get Objective Defender.