Pre Spring Patch Balance Requests for Thief

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Make a reply of what and why youd like to see changed, buffed, added or nerfed.

Please include lists and stay on topic

[Doggie.3184]

Eh, some quick ones at the moment would =

Measured Shot shadowstep removed ofc.

A stunbreak on one of the Wells would be nice. Probably Bounty.

Ricochet returning instead of the bad pierce trait. 🙂

Literally anything the universe can figure out to improve acrobatics, lol.

Siphon giving "Thrill of the Crime" boons without a target or when using it on allies (with reduced duration).

Underwater Wells and Torment on one of the aquatic weaponskills.

The Kurzick and Luxon Assassin armor skins and/or just add all of the Assassin skins from GW1. Fashion balance is also important. 

Twilight Combo to not be bodyblocked by friendlies.

My mind would be completely blown if they actually fixed 'no valid path to target' on all shadowsteps.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[shib.1369]

Removed

Edited March 22, 2022 by shib.1369
Removed

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

An update to Scorpion Wire and Caltrops. 

Revisit and overhaul of initiative system and costs along with the removal of preparedness. Give every none elite trait line a way to restore init. Making Core Thief more capable of using init skills, and losing some natural generation via elite.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[Bunny.9834]

I really want to see some buffs to Sword MH for PvE and an easy access to quickness for core thief. Maybe Acrobatics can have it idk. 

Thief seems to be the only class that doesn't have easy access to quickness. Be Quick or Be Killed (DE) and Haste are not sustainable. 

Lesser Haste - Remove Fury and swiftness. Reduce CD to 30s in PvE. 

 

Maybe: 

Make Core Steal have quickness and Swindler's Equilibrium have 100% steal recharge back in PvE. (Reduce it for Elite Specs)

1. Assassin's Reward:  Add gain stacks of Assassin's reward when you use initiative (max 10 stacks). Each stack gives you damage bonus.  

2. Upper Hand: Add deal increased damage while you have vigor. 

3. Don't Stop: Add super speed when you gain swiftness. 

 

[RyuDragnier.9476]

Overhaul of shadowstep "line of sight" so we can go up and down elevation, and so a simple rock isn't a case of "can't reach target" even if it's right next to you.

[Doggie.3184]

5 hours ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

I really want to see some buffs to Sword MH for PvE and an easy access to quickness for core thief. Maybe Acrobatics can have it idk. 

One thing that always bothered me with Sword is I feel like all Stealth Attacks should do increased damage and not just Dagger's. I'm not a fan of the CC only ones~ that heads into them making PvP only weapon sets which shouldn't be a thing and in PvP they don't feel worth the heavy punishment anyways if you miss/get blinded. Also, just like scepter/pistol black powder has no synergy.

[kash.9213]

44 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

One thing that always bothered me with Sword is I feel like all Stealth Attacks should do increased damage and not just Dagger's. I'm not a fan of the CC only ones~ that heads into them making PvP only weapon sets which shouldn't be a thing and in PvP they don't feel worth the heavy punishment anyways if you miss/get blinded. Also, just like scepter/pistol black powder has no synergy.

If you Black Powder then Mind Shock right away before a Grasping Shadows then you might be able to double blast Stealth. You can at least get off a Grasping Shadows and dump Shroud for a Shadowsquall. It's a little much to pull off in the moment though, but at least you might give your team a quick Barrier. 

[Chrysaliss.8720]

Remove forced movement on skills

Increase well radius or make it that when you drop well everyone in your party gets alacrity no matter if they are inside or not.

Complete redesign of shroud skills.

Remove all forms of torment and replace them with poison / bleeding (it makes 0 sense)

Make power specter viable

Remove single target ally targetting and buff aoe utility

Make weapon kits viable beyond spamming 1 skill

 

[Jumpel.3972]

• For Specter:
  • Sc/X #1 on ally => Add a short regen on each hit
  • Sc/X #1 Stealth on ally => Add a short vigor on each hit
  • Sc/X #2 on ally/enemy => Add Fury
  • Sc/D #3 on enemy => Nerf power damage of Sc/D #3 in PVP only (at least 20%)
  • Sc/D #3 on ally => 1 Condi clean and replace Swiftness by a short Super Speed
  • Sc/P #3 on ally => Replace regen by Resistance (same Quickness duration)
  • Well => add stunbreak on one of them
  • Shallow Grave => Remove the auto shroud part and reduce the CD in PVP (to match Signet of Mercy)
  • Traversing Dusk => Remove the base shadow force gain for shadowsteping and double the one base on ally in range.
  • Shadow Force per Int => Double the shadow force gain per initiative spend (1% to 2%)
  • Shroud => Overall more support for the tethered Ally (more boon !) + a way to easly swap tethered target (a F3 with no cd or more cd reduction for Siphon on ally when in Shroud)

Edited March 23, 2022 by Jumpel.3972

[nopoet.2960]

I want forced movement skills rewarded somehow in the acrobatics line.

In shadow arts I want Shadows Embrace, Leeching Venoms, and Shadows Rejuvenation to trigger on revealed rather than relying on staying in stealth.

Some easier way to target downed players

Oh and I want the rez in Shadestep (Specter talent) to trigger Merciful Ambush (Shadow Arts)

Bonus - Not specifically for thief.  Anet needs to decide what to do with the color orange.  They use orange to show that a skill is charging up.  The problem is that they use the same color for friendly and enemy skills.  It can be confusing.

[BobbyT.7192]

Keep in mind that this patch coming next week is a pvp/wvw update. Meaning it will mostly be changes to number and no changes to functionality.

That'll be in the June update.

There's plenty of ways to improve the thief. Top of that list for me would be:

Prepardness made Baseline, and then Thrill of the Crime replacing that.

Then you make room for the return of ricochet. Maybe in a form that includes all projectile based attacks. Something like;

Ricochet: All your completed Projectile combo finishers (meaning combo'd with a field) bounces one additional time

[RyuDragnier.9476]

Because I was just reminded in the Kaineng strike...please tone down the darkness effects on the Specter wells, it's really hard to see if you have any AoE mechanics targeting you with a circle when the wells obscure them.

[Jumpel.3972]

7 hours ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

please tone down the darkness effects on the Specter wells, it's really hard to see if you have any AoE mechanics targeting you with a circle when the wells obscure them.

+1

[Tenal.1546]

Restore or at least buff IP for us "filthy casuals" who miss our staves. There is precedent. The Scourge Sand Shade nerf of 2019 was pretty much reversed the following year. That is what I want. However, it's good to want things.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

I just want deadly aim reverted back to ricochet. Other classes get this sort if trait as baseline or baseline autoattacks but we have to pierce?! Cmi

Cmon...ricochet! Ricochet! *chant*

[nopoet.2960]

3 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

I just want deadly aim reverted back to ricochet. Other classes get this sort if trait as baseline or baseline autoattacks but we have to pierce?! Cmi

Cmon...ricochet! Ricochet! *chant*

That fact this skill was removed in 2015 and we are still taking about it shows how much it hurt.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

2 hours ago, nopoet.2960 said:

That fact this skill was removed in 2015 and we are still taking about it shows how much it hurt.

with everying moving constantly why dont we have bounces which would hit targets behind the target anyway, makes sense instead of piercing...honestly Piercing shouldnt be blockable/reflectable if this is the case.

[frareanselm.1925]

After almost 10 years, thief have never had the condition burn in any attack. This is sad and shameful. Cant we have a little burn in a pistol or shortbow skill?....

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

14 hours ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

After almost 10 years, thief have never had the condition burn in any attack. This is sad and shameful. Cant we have a little burn in a pistol or shortbow skill?....

Doubt the community will let it happen. Something something, thief op, something something, nerf now.

[Doggie.3184]

17 hours ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

After almost 10 years, thief have never had the condition burn in any attack. This is sad and shameful. Cant we have a little burn in a pistol or shortbow skill?....

It could possibly help Rifle if there was an explosive AoE round like that and make it a bit more unique. They couldnt scream OP since it's not a condi weapon, right? XD. It's very rarely used in PvE/WvW cuz it's all about AoE tagging and it has no options. Just hurl Shortbow at us again. The same gameplay as P/P ever since Ricochet was deleted...

It still bothers me that we have the same ranged single-target weapon-set twice and they even nerfed P/P's range for it as the only way they could think of to distinguish them apart.

[Tails.9372]

20 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

It still bothers me that we have the same ranged single-target weapon-set twice and they even nerfed P/P's range for it as the only way they could think of to distinguish them apart.

They removed Ricochet shortly before the release of HoT, not PoF. PoF was when they bloated the ini costs in competitive modes to make it completely unviable there (ofc. just like how it was with the removal of the Ricochet trait (and the IP nerf at the begining of EoD): no official reason given for this change).

The themes of the respective weapon sets should have made it obvious how to best distinguish the two. Ironically gameplay wise P/P actually goes better with a more stationary playstyle as it doesn't require the player to jump around like a monkey while the rifle (unlike P/P) actually has some mobility in its skill set.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

21 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

They removed Ricochet shortly before the release of HoT, not PoF. PoF was when they bloated the ini costs in competitive modes to make it completely unviable there (ofc. just like how it was with the removal of the Ricochet trait (and the IP nerf at the begining of EoD): no official reason given for this change).

The themes of the respective weapon sets should have made it obvious how to best distinguish the two. Ironically gameplay wise P/P actually goes better with a more stationary playstyle as it doesn't require the player to jump around like a monkey while the rifle (unlike P/P) actually has some mobility in its skill set.

what i dont get it with the range for Rapid Fire on ranger being 10 seconds at bloody 10s cooldown with the Wombo Combo they use to practically one shot you, they still kept the previous initiative costs too high for competitive modes for p/p Unload, which ALSO has shorter range NOW.

i miss the 1050 range we had with firearms pre Deadeye that we had traited too (i dont recall the trait at the time...due to getting old,) yet they dont really nerf Rapid Fire...we have enough reflects in the game, projectile hate, blocks and inv phases and even shadowsteps on most classes but we thieves still got that nerf effecting build diversity which pidgeon-holes us into certain weaponsets which are practically dead outside of gimmick builds (looks at specter Sword/X) to add more insult to injury OUR only projectile block that could potentially HELP would be the Smoke Screen, which also received a nerf to duration as well.

REVERT Unload initiative costs to that nerf patch, give us the range increase back and get rid of the crappy, unused Deadly Aim pierce trait and GIVE us lower initiative cost for unload and some other skills. Who cares if we were actually good at roaming. Make roaming great again! its not like we had much defense with p/p and that was enough trade off if we got pinned down and close ranged!

they need to extensively review thief skills/traits/weapon sets that arent really used / are just crap and fix us. NO NERFS/Barely any at all 

 

/begs Grouch

[Tails.9372]

59 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

i miss the 1050 range we had with firearms pre Deadeye that we had traited too (i dont recall the trait at the time...due to getting old,)

The trait was called "Ricochet".

59 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

REVERT Unload initiative costs to that nerf patch, give us the range increase back and get rid of the crappy, unused Deadly Aim pierce trait and GIVE us lower initiative cost for unload and some other skills. Who cares if we were actually good at roaming. Make roaming great again! its not like we had much defense with p/p and that was enough trade off if we got pinned down and close ranged!

As I said in the other thread:

On 3/23/2022 at 5:05 PM, Tails.9372 said:

The dual wielding class mechanic:

Turn the AA of weapon sets where the weapon type of main and off hand is identical into dual skills.

...

For main hand pistol:

Bola Shot:

In addition to what it currently does using this skill should also have a 600 range disengage in form of a shadow step.

For the pistol / pistol weapon set in specific:

Make weapon skill 1 into a dual skill and for that move unload from 3 to one. This would remove redundancies in the weapon set and alleviate the burden offensive skills put on the utility options while also keeping the core gameplay intact.

As for weapon skill 3: add an engage (similar to Lotus Training) that also doubles as a small scale AoE.

^ from a pure gameplay point of view this would solve all issues the weapon set is currently suffering from, the rest is just adjusting numbers which, in terms of damage output in PvE, could also use an increase as it's currently way to low.

...

Deadly Aim:

As others have stated: just remove it and bring back Ricochet.

Do this and it should at least solve the gameplay related issues the P/P weapon set in specific is suffering from althouth there is ofc. more to be done for thief as a whole.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Simonoly.4352]

I'd quite like an update to all pistol, sword, dagger and shortbow skills when playing as Spectre so they can heal like scepter skills. I'm not really a fan of having class mechanics exclusive to one weapon only - feels a bit at odds with the original design principles of the game.

Could imagine using cloak and dagger on an allied target to stealth and heal them along with me. I also want to backstab heal my allies dammit!