Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]

[DaniEdwards.3245]

This is so frustrating :angry: I love Guild Wars so much and enjoy playing the game whenever I get time to play. I do buy gems and would spend gems to buy these awesome mount skins, but I really don't like the idea of gambling and not being able to choose the skin I want!I understand that the gem store is a way in which Anet needs to make money and I am all for supporting the team because I love the game and am so happy to have such a great game with no monthly fee, but why do we have to pay so much just to get a mount skin that we do not like.. I was really looking forward to seeing what new mount skins would be available but am not happy to see that we cannot choose the skin we like :anguished:
Why did Anet have to change it all up for the mount skins? Everything else we could easily buy from the trading post which was great, and for the right skin I would pay gold or gems to be able to get it, but I don't want to pay money for a gamble :-1:

[Deimos.4263]

The new mounts are awesome. Unfortunately I'll be missing out, as I'm not going to support this RNG decision. ANet will also be missing out, as I would have purchased them all. (I'm still hoping for a regular 5-mount Wintersday pack for 2000 gems in December. Santa hats if you're listening.)

[Fundor.2098]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The licenses only work on the 30 released as part of the pack. They don't include spooky or Warhound.

If this is true, the whole concept of getting the wanted skins through gambling is a total insult to the playerbase. As is the price of the Reforged Warhound skin.There's nothing redeeming about it.

[DaniEdwards.3245]

I am so disappointed with this news :anguished: I was really looking forward to seeing what new mount skins we could buy, and I would gladly buy the mount skins with gems or gold if I could get a skin I really want, but the gambling aspect and not being able to choose our own skins is very sad and frustrating :angry:

[Cuddy.6247]

I was hoping the 2000 price tag was a flub. I don't really care all that much about the stable skins - they look kind of hideous, actually. I'm surprised there's so much attention going into it when they all look like crappy repackaged originals. But that warhound is...well, it's actually a different skin. I'd be down for like 1k gems as if it were an infinite gathering tool...but 2k is just a little too much. Especially for an unfinished set. I mean if it were like 8k for all 5, I could see myself putting out. But it's 2k...for 1. That's a problem on multiple levels. It's an unfinished set, with no promise or guarantee that there will be any others. And this single skin with no guarantee of being part of a set is sold for a ludicrous amount. It's a double whammy.

[Bazs.1470]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Bazs.1470 said:How did Anet fall this low? Paying for gampling, this is a joke. Why can't we just select the mount skin we want, like we do with the mini tickets (yeah, I get it, because stupid people will spend more money they get what they want). I hope this kitten will aliante enough people to change this crap or never do it again.

Question, do you call people who love trading card games stupid too for buying card packs with RNG?Like... RNG is all over this game, there are timegated skins locked behind RNG, lots of RNG stuff in gemstore, ecto gambling... why do people whine about this specific one when it's not even close to be the worst?

This sort of gambling has been around forever, there's nothing new.

My answer for this is simple: Guild Wars 2 is not a trading card game.The main problem is, if Anet see this works, then more will come: RNG outfits, RNG weapon skins etc. The future is really dark if this happens. And people can say "Oh, it's just cosmetics, don't buy it." Yeah, the problem is, after level 80, GW2 is largely about how your character looks, because there is no gear threadmill shit, thank to gods (yeah, there are raid and other stuff, but nobody can deny that getting skins is a huge part of endgame). I'll see how many people will white-knight this stupid idea when the outfits, glider skins and the other stuff will come only in RNG lootboxes.Also, the jackal mount costs more then PoF. I think this tells everything.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

@Chadramar.8156 said:

@Preyar.6783 said:Don't take the vocal minority as a majority, ever. Right now that poll is full of people who's on a rampage about lootboxes and don't understand that Anet have done them a favor with this unique system.

So unmitigated greed is a "favor" now. How lovely.

An actual "favor" would be adding skins that can actually be earned by

playing the game

, preferably by doing something related to the skin in question, which would have the added benefit of actually adding some meaning to the things and tying them into the world. Another obvious way to show "favor" woud be to put them in birthday presents.

If we move beyond "favor" to "ethical business practice", the obvious decision would be to make them directly purchasable, like glider skins and outfits. Also add some to the expensive PoF editions, like HoT with its glider skin.

There is nothing even remotely "favorable" about gambling, ever. It's specifically designed to be exploitative, and people need to stop making excuses for this garbage.

It's truly mind-boggling isn't it? That people exist in this world that can call this stuff a "favor" with a straight face. It makes me sad that this is what we've come to.

[Crystal Black.8190]

@Ubi.4136 said:I imagine movie theaters will go RNG soon too. Your movie tonight will be $16 for 2 adults...maybe if you're lucky you'll get to watch the movie you want, and if you're really lucky you will even end up in the same theater. If not, you can always tell each other afterwards about what you saw.

That's actually a thing here. You can get a random ticket for less than normal. The downside is I won't know what movie and they only include not sold out ones so usually no new movies.

[Natto.5819]

@Swagger.1459 said:

That's a pretty weak argument. So would you like every item in-game handed to you for free so anet values your time more?

Either given free, or put somewhere we can earn it. So with these new mount skins, sure sell them in a Loot Crate, but give us players an alternative way to get them. And that way would be through things like PvP or WvW rewards tracks. But we know Anet won't do that. So if RNG is the wave of the future, then add in P2W to complete the transformation!

[JVJD.4912]

Heard mount skins kept my wallet in handHeard chance of getting random mount skin kept my wallet back in

I hope you have plenty of whales there Arenanet cause this is the second time you lost my money regarding mount skins

[clark.5839]

100% agree with this. I just saw the BL Stable skins online and was about to buy one... until I hit the word "random" and realized this was another gambling mechanic. I already buy Black Lion Keys and will not add another thing to this bad habit. Please sell mount skins like glider skins. Cannot and will not buy adoption licenses.

[Ojimaru.8970]

@Natto.5819 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Natto.5819 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:We are not entitled to anything for FREE, but we do get a ton of FREE updates to the game. You want optional cosmetic items that have zero impact on gameplay? Buy them. Don't know where you are drawing the parallel of vanity items to "p2w" items. Sad.

I guess you never played an Asian MMO or even a mobile game. It's a natural progression from mount skin RNG loot crate cash grab to full P2W RNG loot crate cash grab. This is where it feels like we're headed.

Think of it this way, how much did you pay for your PoF expansion? Now how much will getting all mount skins cost?

You pay ZERO in monthly access fees for this game. ZERO. You can get every item off the gemstore for FREE.

Tell me more about these Asian mmos that give free monthly access and a path to every item on their item store for free?

Time spent farming for gold to buy Gems isn't FREE. My Time is a Cost.

Yes, absolutely your time is precious!

So why are you playing a video game, and not outside saving the world?

[Ojimaru.8970]

You know, I've never walked into a casino or gambling parlour where the more I play, the better my odds are at winning.

[Disig.7169]

Psychology. The negative and addicting effects of gambling have been well documented and studied. Some people are just hard wired to become helplessly addicted to gambling to the point where it destroys their lives. Sure, they could just "not buy it" but there in lies the fundamental misunderstanding: they can't. Addiction is powerful. Games themselves are already addicting, and for people who do get easily addicted to things adding in a gambling mechanic to a game, especially one they already play, can be devastating.

And it get worse. Children are far more likely to fall into gambling addiction then adults. They lack impulse control and can easily be manipulated into spending money. Lootboxes have already had a toll on children, if the media is to be believed. I personally know several parents who have reported their normally well behaved kids stole their credit card to get lootboxes. And it's really not their fault: they have no impulse control. You don't develop that until later in life. So these "marketing" decisions are really preying on children in the long run.

And that's the tragedy.

Now I'm not an expert, so I will link articles and studies below. Here's a video from Extra Credits, they explain this issue far better then I can if you remain unconvinced:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_gambling - for a baseline understanding and more links at the bottom of the pagehttp://www.theage.com.au/victoria/children-as-young-as-12-at-risk-of-developing-gambling-problems-foundation-finds-20140306-348pm.htmlhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2533814/ - Gambling, Youth and the Internet: Should We Be Concerned?https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/10/12/the-esrb-is-wrong-about-loot-boxes-and-gambling/#380ba8f52a64https://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-video-game-companies-are-using-gambling-tactics-to-make-customers-addicted-2017-9

This is from a precursory web search. I'm not here to debate, I am here to inform. Of course I wont stop any debate in the comments, you're free to go at it. But I hope people start to get a sense for WHY it's such a big deal that Anet released what is essentially a "lootbox." Granted, it's not as bad as other lootboxes, but it's still a lootbox.

I know it's asking a lot but please be kind to each other if you want to debate. I know a lot of people are angry. And a lot of people like to troll. But this is a real issue in gaming as a whole. Please don't full out rage on someone because they disagree with you. Being angry doesn't change minds. Thank you.

[dolcolax.1268]

the vanity of fashion warts strikes again

[troops.8276]

@Swagger.1459 said:We are not entitled to anything for FREE, but we do get a ton of FREE updates to the game. You want FREE optional cosmetic items that have zero impact on gameplay? Exchange your in-game gold and get them for FREE.

Don't know where you are drawing the parallel of vanity items to "p2w" items. Sad.

Customization is a part of the gameplay to many, as in how people play the game, or spend their time.The industry recognised this a while back and have been making big money off of it ever since. Its offered as a feature, a selling point, by all the mmo's and many other genres on the market.Features, selling points, like QoL, Content and Customization are then deliberately time gated and made available through a pay wall. On top of that various manipulative marketing ploys are used to encourage sales. Some are getting too close to gambling for many.

Now you know.

EDIT: If you genuinely had not realised that this is what is going on then you are one of the simple souls others here are concerned will be exploited due to your naivety.

[Adenin.5973]

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:I say no. Those people should not have supported this type of practice to begin with.Early adopters are early adopters.

You mean Anet should punish those people who supported them with money and award those that cried and kitten on the forums?

They would make it even worse for everyone. Those people who were desperate or crazy enough to spend 9000+ gems made that purchase under the reasonable assumption that this would be the only way to get the mounts. Anet now changing terms completely would be a big fu** you to all those who supported them. Why the hell should they do this? So that people like you get their pleasure out of the thought of it?

Unlike you they don't want to punish unreasonably generous players.

Edit: I find this argument in particular funny that when I think back to GW2 going f2p or things like that, the same people would cry about Anet "not caring about the veteran players" and that they want free stuff because now the new players get all the free stuff.

Should the original new Xbox owners get mad when the early adopters that bought it even when same as in this case people went online and whined about the no trading and the always online and having the kinect always connected?The thing is these early adopters got that product and was fine with it. Later certain parts were "updated" and removed, but certain factors did not.In the end now, they now have made what... 2 or 3 versions of those new Xboxes now? Supposedly better than the original without all that tacked on crap. Many of those wanted the system but they paid extra for even that little camera device that they didn't even want, but they wanted to be an early adopter.

Can you tell me at which point did Microsoft say "Let us reimburse you early adopters for paying for a device that you didn't even want and was told it still needed to be connected anyway but now you can let it rot in the corner"? Because I would really like to read that.

The thing is the 1st buyers of things are always the lab skritts. Where you hear cases of broken devices, scratched screens, dead pixels, buggy/faulty products, bad programming and weird situations.They would later maybe fix the problem, but they never bother with the beginners.

The early adopters bought into this, they got exactly what they wanted out of it. And the dealing/transaction already went through. It's not Arenanet's fault people were too hasty with it.

You cant compare it to a physical item you bought. This is a digital item, there's not a single reason why you wouldn't be able as a company to completely refund it. It's not like people bought a car, used it for 5 years and then asked the manufactuer for a free upgrade to the new model or whatever.

It's a sale of a digital item we're talking about. Anet sold the skins and made it appear that this is the only way they are sold, so people bought them. When they now admit that they made a mistake with that sort of sale and that this isn't how they wanted to deal with their customers, it would be insane for them to say "Well and fu** those that already bought our stuff".

It's like Apple admitting that some of their authorized dealers sold their stuff 100% the normal price and then not giving people any sort of refund. They're not in any way obligated to do it but of course they don't want to get that sort of a reputation hit, especially not with those people who really have the money and actually buy their products.

[Vadeil.3924]

I just wanted to say thank you Anet for the new mount skins. Also making it so there are no repeat skins! I feel they are all well made and that Flamelander, Storm Ridge, Arctic Jerboa, Primal Hare, Pyroclast, Stardust, Twin Sands, Fire Pinion, Starbound are all worth around 1k gems each! with the effects being fully dye-able and such.

My only criticism would be allow people to buy outside of rng for an inflated price if they do not like rng.

[Fallesafe.5932]

Yea, this is "pay to win." Because re-skinning your mount is how you win the game apparently.

[troops.8276]

@Fallesafe.5932 said:Yea, this is "pay to win." Because re-skinning your mount is how you win the game apparently.

How do you 'win' the game though? Getting all the things you want?

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

@"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:You guys are talking about a group of people who tried to sneak in privateer weapons and then was like "ohjhh, oh no we're not doing it like this, this is a one time thing to show you something special!".

Until I see internal memos detailing that in writing before they released it, I will not believe it was anything but backpedaling and saving face after being caught.

Are you guys legitimate like unawares that this is standard procedure? Don't be naiive.

Also Anet has done nothing wrong here. Truly we are to blame for showing them, by the numbers, that we love gambling.

STOP BLAMING ANET

Please tell me about the privateer weapons as I don't even know what those are, lol.

The Privateer weapons were account bound only and bought with Black Lion tickets, which meant you couldn’t buy them off the trading post. You had to get keys to open up Black Lion chests. When they were added to the game people were unhappy about the account bound, no trading post features.

[Fallesafe.5932]

@troops.8276 said:

@Fallesafe.5932 said:Yea, this is "pay to win." Because re-skinning your mount is how you win the game apparently.

How

do

you 'win' the game though? Getting all the things you want?

There's no gameplay advantage/imperative to re-skinning your mounts. It's 100% discretionary, and cosmetic.

[TheUndefined.1720]

TL:DR: Read Bold

I wanted to start a new thread on this to focus and narrow the discussion with how this is a good or bad deal for the player and ANet vs. rambling and ranting on randomization. It's not entirely unique, so in that, I apologize for the extra mount skin thread. Also, I understand how people feel about cash shop items, so I want to say, I've been at the forefront of MANY debates and forum wars in many different MMO's on the side of fighting any sort of cash shop addition. So, I'm not here to white knight or wave a banner for either side. I just wanted to share my thoughts, and hopefully that'll offer a more neutral / open platform for others.

Argument: The licenses are actually not a bad idea at all nor do I find them gambling. The price of 120$ is a new precedent for me to see in this game, so in that, it is a bit worrisome, but I haven't been following this game for 5 years and I'm sure there have been other very pricey items. So, in other words, the price is steep, but it's not bad in comparison.

Here's Why it's a good deal: All of the skins (at this price) are 4$ each. In any other game that wouldn't be the case. The baser skins would probably be 10-20$, but the shinier ones (I counted 8 total - Fire / Lightning Raptor, Ice / Jackalope bunny, Fire / Cosmos Jackal, and the Fiery / Cosmos Griffon) in any other game would range 20-40$ per mount. That's 160$ total at it's cheapest and 320$ at it's most expensive (Examples; WoW, FFXIV, Elder Scrolls Online (Crowns - 3000 = 25$, 5,500 = 40$)) and I'm sure there are many more options showing how expensive mounts can get. So my point, although some may say, 4$ is too steep, I say it's actually a really good deal considering at least 8 (IMO) would be from 20-40$ each and the rest would at least be 15-20$ each.

Here's why it's not gambling, imo: So, it is a random chance, but the chance is out of 30 and there are NO DUPLICATES, which means you can eventually get the mount you want. The chance isn't bottomless. Gambling is the promise that it isn't bottomless but with a very small chance. For example, in Elder Scrolls online, they have Crown Crates. They put very exclusive skins in those crates, however, you can get duplicates you can cash out for a few gems, the nice skins cost 100 gems, a duplicate will maybe give you 1 gem. I've seen videos of players dumping 150$ into those crates and not getting the ONE skin they wanted. My point, is it random? To a degree, at the end of the day you CAN get the one you want, but you could spend either 120$ or 4$; however, you CAN get the one you want at a set price and it includes 30 other skins.

The Ugly: The price is steep, period. It's the best price I've seen in any other MMO, however, it is a new baseline for what ANet is looking at, and that is worrisome for the future.

In conclusion: Look, at the end of the day, you should compare, contrast, and weigh out if this is a good idea for you. If it isn't, hey then, no worries. If it is, go for it. I just wanted to provide my personal thoughts on why I really don't think this is NEARLY as bad as most other MMO's on the market. The examples given are totally subjective, b/c in TESO they have a really well made monthly payment plan that offers 1500 gems (crowns) per month, while FFXIV only gives you the game for 15$ a month. In other words, the skins are expensive, but it isn't nearly that bad and actually a pretty good deal.

[Bish.8627]

Gambling in GW2 should not be for premium content. I swear when I saw a casino something like this might come along. I get the attraction, but I wish instead they would pump out more skins for less gems. I would honestly put more money into this game if stuff cost less.

Lets say for another MMO I pay £8.99 per month just to play. If for £8.99 I could get a skin and some utility or another. I would do it every month without doubt. Right now, I won't put in a penny because I don't feel what I get in return is value for money. As for RNG, not a chance am I putting real money towards gambling,

Bring ticks to PVE like WvW and add RNG to those. Sell the skins cheaper and exclusive ones.

[Jahroots.6791]

@Tsakhi.8124 said:But, skins have absolutely no impact on the game itself; it doesn't alter the mechanics, it doesn't change its core, you can purchase them if you want or not, your choice. Also, I've played Gacha games and they are 100% P2W, you have the whales with a gear score of 400K and then there's me, idling at around 220K. There is a reason I stopped playing; I was getting literally nothing for my money. Zero, zilch, just dupes and rares. I understand the anger, but I don't understand the link between Guild Wars 2 and Gacha games. :/

Come on, I feel like you know better than this. Anet wouldn't offer so many cosmetic options for everything if this was the case. Visuals play a tremendous part in most players' enjoyment of a game.

Cosmetics are like the spices and seasonings that make a meal tasty. You might as well say a restaurant doesn't need to do anything other than cook their food because taste has no impact on the nutritional value, or whether you feel full afterwards.

No idea what Gachapon is but a small part of me kind of would like to be able to just pay to become OP and coast my way through raids and stuff. *shrugs