Change the name of "Infantile Mode," please

[Darklord Roy.2514]

1 hour ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

I would hope that even if it were one person, a genuine complaint of genuine harm would be enough to be worth acting upon. That does not necessarily imply that you need to do the thing the person asks for, because sometimes just an apology and a genuine pledge to try to do better in the future is what's warranted... but one needn't stay silent for harm done up until the point it meets a certain threshold of significance. One can act whenever one wishes to act, and I would hope that one acts as soon as they realize that they've caused harm, and in the way that best rectifies that harm, whatever that happens to be.

I get where you're coming from, and largely I agree with the sentiment and ideals that you're going for here. I wouldn't expect anyone in an affected group to stay silent about any issues they may have, that's what forums are truly for (and many posts on GW2's forums ask for significantly less reasonable things than this).

 

I guess my main point is that while I wish we lived in a world where people like you could get everything you needed out of content while it also catered to the larger masses in the game, it just largely isn't a feasible thing for the company to do from a business perspective. Your comment about opening the floodgates to mass name changes across the game is accurate, but it DOES still open a crack in that door and some people are bound to have the same response to "infantile" that you have, but for any other word they could choose to denote. It may not be constant, but it will still exist. I'm not sure if the raid boss analogy holds up too well since balance is a thing they update regularly and simple things like event names are not, and considering changing a name is significantly easier than doing balance, it runs the risk of someone saying "you were willing to change it for someone else, so why can you not change it for me for the same reasons?"

 

That may just be the pessimist in me, but taking advantage of a situation is how a lot of people operate. I'm not saying you're one of them, but you may unintentionally let them into this territory.

[dusanyu.4057]

this name is a reference to older games that would have insulting names for "Easy Mode"  Wolfenstine 3D for example had "Can I play Daddy" and Doom and Doom 2 had "I'm too young to die!" (Both of these would feature a picture of the main character in a baby bonnet and sucking a passifier)  this happened in other games as well but i too am a person who is recovering from Brain Injuries and can't remeber them all

Remember SaB is a love letter to 90's Gaming. unfortunately the reference is lost to people who never played these classic games.

Edited April 1, 2022 by dusanyu.4057

[KeoLegend.5132]

DO NOT CHANGE IT.

If you get offended of a fun, satyrical and infantile then...

 

did you ever playe Doom and Wolfestein ? The difficulty modes there was such fun. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by KeoLegend.5132
avoiding being rude

[VerdantThorn.9345]

29 minutes ago, Darklord Roy.2514 said:

I guess my main point is that while I wish we lived in a world where people like you could get everything you needed out of content while it also catered to the larger masses in the game, it just largely isn't a feasible thing for the company to do from a business perspective. Your comment about opening the floodgates to mass name changes across the game is accurate, but it DOES still open a crack in that door and some people are bound to have the same response to "infantile" that you have, but for any other word they could choose to denote. It may not be constant, but it will still exist.

 

I simply don't see how changing a name is less feasible or reasonable than, say, increasing the enrage timer on Soo-Won by 2 minutes (proposed but not done) or decreasing the number of random AoEs or adding a health popup for her tail or allowing players to buy the turtle egg for currency rather than as an event drop (which is fundamentally an accessibility accommodation, just unrelated to disability)... or any of the other things they have already done based on player complaints, not of harm, but because it just kinda made their play experience less fun. Like those all involve, I'm sure, a BUNCH of programming and testing and QA and everything else... but this would be comparatively straightforward. At least, it seems. I'm willing to allow for the possibility that I'm wrong about that, and if someone in a position to know says "well it's not so simple for [reasons]" then okay, I can deal with that. Sometimes accommodations that seem reasonable, turn out to be unreasonable, and that's just how the disability cookie crumbles. You find a different cookie store, if that's the case. 

I like those changes, btw. I think they were good changes (though the latter one did really deleterious things to the ability of anyone to find a group that was large enough to tackle the meta, IME), and I'm glad they were made. I'm all for rebalancing the game. The idea that they have the time and effort for that but not for changing a name, though, seems a bit of a stretch to me. I get ultimately that you are concerned about "but what if more people start asking" and... well, maybe that WILL happen. I don't know what to say about hypothetical futures, other than to look at the (admittedly anecdotal and thus not) data. I can't think there of an example of that ever happening, though I can think of lots of examples of the contrary. There are a lot of changes in this vein that are long-overdue and barely-sufficient, once made, and only made with the utmost reluctance. The fear of slippery slopes often creates sticky tar pits, is I guess what I'm getting at.

The world isn't flush with disabled parking spaces and wheelchair ramps and accessibility aids of other kinds, and often it takes massive campaigns to get blatantly offensive things changed or removed (you can pick your own examples on this one, I'm not getting into that fight). It has barely what's needed, and often not even that. I don't think changing the name of this mode of this parody game-within-game is going to reverse that larger societal trend. Though, you are still free to feel differently, and to disagree with me. That's okay. I've gotten comfortable with being on the other side of a lot of issues with people. That has been the story of my life, and it'd be weird for it to change now. That said, I hope that my reasons and reasoning are convincing enough to the right ears, to make a difference. That's all I'm hoping for. 

 

[Ashantara.8731]

While I don't agree with the OP's request, I find some of the responses here shocking.

Using personal attacks to make your point is just as "infantile" as you claim the OP was. Just wow.

Ever heard of a thing called empathy? Apparently not.
 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[VerdantThorn.9345]

39 minutes ago, dusanyu.4057 said:

this name is a reference to older games that would have insulting names for "Easy Mode"  Wolfenstine 3D for example had "Can I play Daddy" and Doom and Doom 2 had "I'm too young to die!" (Both of these would feature a picture of the main character in a baby bonnet and sucking a passifier)  this happened in other games as well but i too am a person who is recovering from Brain Injuries and can't remeber them all

Remember SaB is a love letter to 90's Gaming. unfortunately the reference is lost to people who never played these classic games.

 

I was born in 1983, so yes I'm aware of all of those and played all of the aforementioned. 

I very much hope that you recover your memories and full cognitive function! I've been down that road (that's the core of a lot of my disability issues), and have both lost and regained a lot of that. It's incredibly tough, and a massive uphill battle. You've got some mondo boss fights ahead of you, but suit up and do your best for them so you can come through it as well as possible! Listen to your doctors as appropriate, work hard in the right ways, but don't push yourself to the point of further injury. ❤❤

[DeathStorm.8423]

No, I think it should stay the same. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Instead of being offended by everything, just move on if you don't like the name. It's been like that for years, no need to change it. The name fits the mode designed behind it. 

[VerdantThorn.9345]

8 minutes ago, DeathStorm.8423 said:

No, I think it should stay the same. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Instead of being offended by everything, just move on if you don't like the name. It's been like that for years, no need to change it. The name fits the mode designed behind it. 

 

 

The fact that a thing has been a given way for a while (and lets be clear, we're not talking centuries here - we're talking like a month of actual playable time spread across the several years SAB has been a thing), is not inherently an argument for keeping it as-is. Lots of bad things existed for a long time, and then didn't. The point of my post is that in certain ways and for certain people, it IS broke. It's not broken for you, and that's fine, but I'm saying that there are people - myself included - for whom it is. 

It's okay to not understand my point of view on this. A lot of people don't, because they don't have my background or history with this. I don't expect them to get it. What I do hope they do, though, is at least attempt to empathize with where I'm coming from. I hope they try to see things from my perspective as best they can, even if just for a moment. But, if not, then c'est la vie. Like I said, I'm not trying to convince everyone this is a good idea, just the right people. They will then, I hope, do something to rectify the situation in the most reasonable and straightforward a manner as they can. 

[KeoLegend.5132]

26 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

While I don't agree with the OP's request, I find some of the responses here shocking.

Using personal attacks to make your point is just as "infantile" as you claim the OP was. Just wow.

Ever heard of a thing called empathy? Apparently not.
 

Why should i have empaty to someone that doesn't have?

We said over and over that we like the way it is, why can't the OP empathize with us?

[Katary.7096]

3 hours ago, clown.7148 said:

Let me start by saying that your feelings are valid. People on your thread are gaslighting you imo. People need to learn to stop telling people how they should feel or whatever. Just change the name of the mode to something else. Its not like it will affect players who are not feeling the same way as you or other players.

I am confused. You are telling people that they need to learn to stop telling others how they should feel, while you are telling OP that they should feel the way they feel. And you are also assessing that there are no people who would feel bad about the name getting changed to something else. So what is it? Do you get to tell others how they should feel, or it is none of your business?

4 hours ago, Atria.6729 said:

Also, since most people here claim that they don't care about the name, I belive that they wouldn't care about a differnet one as well if such change would occure.

This very topic proves that your assumption is false. The OP cares about the name enough to want it changed. Lets assume that that happens. Now OP no longer cares about the new name because from their point of view there is no longer any problem with it. Which means the OP is an example of a person who went from caring about the old name to not caring about the new name. Then the inverse should also be true: Someone who does not care about the current name would care about the new name. In short: If caring about the name is depended on what the name is (which is the case in this thread), then you can't simply assume that nobody would care about a new one.

[Atria.6729]

9 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

This very topic proves that your assumption is false. The OP cares about the name enough to want it changed. Lets assume that that happens. Now OP no longer cares about the new name because from their point of view there is no longer any problem with it. Which means the OP is an example of a person who went from caring about the old name to not caring about the new name. Then the inverse should also be true: Someone who does not care about the current name would care about the new name. In short: If caring about the name is depended on what the name is (which is the case in this thread), then you can't simply assume that nobody would care about a new one.

I was refearing to many posts here claiming that OP should not take things so much to themselves, "it's just a name" "it's just a joke" "not everything is about you". So if "it's just a name" than changing it would not matter since "it's just a name" (possible new names mentioned in this place were both clasic like "easy mode" or "beginner mode" and more lore-based like "bookah mode" or "progeny mode" since it is asuran based). I did not make a hypothesis that after a possible change everyone will be happy and going on their merry way.

And I never wrote "nobady". I wrote "most people here" which refeared to this particualr topic and players answers to OP's idea. Of course no course of action will ever make everyone 100% happy but I believe we know that by now.

[VerdantThorn.9345]

15 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

In short: If caring about the name is depended on what the name is (which is the case in this thread), then you can't simply assume that nobody would care about a new one.

 

Of course people care. I care. The several pages of comments demonstrate that others care. And yeah, as you say, that's the whole point of my speaking up. But, I think there is a difference between "I want to keep the current name because I prefer the status quo" and "I like 'Infantile Mode' specifically." I'm hearing a lot of arguments for the former, but not a lot for the latter. While there are some that say it's a good callback to 90's gaming, I think there are ways to balance that desire - to have a name that calls back to those games - and my desire to not have that specific label be used to do it. In other words, there are several intersecting value arguments to be had here, and it is worth taking them all into consideration. The people who want no change whatsoever across the board... well, I don't think they will necessarily be DISpleased with the new name, or at least not for long. Whatever it changes to, that will swiftly become the NEW status quo, especially if whatever the change is happens between SAB 2022 and SAB 2023. The people who want a lore-appropriate name have a valid concern, because they want something that doesn't break immersion. The people who want a callback to 90's gaming have a valid concern, because that's the whole aesthetic of SAB. The people who want something funny have a valid concern, because the whole event is meant to be a joke/parody/prank. 

And, I think I have a valid concern in not wanting that joke to be at the inadvertent expense of disabled people. 

[Elan.7523]

Honestly? No matter the joke,  someone will get offended.  Always.  SAB is a joke.  It was intended as such, and is understood as such.  One can't keep changing things based on people taking things into a context it was very clearly never implying,  or else you will never stop changing things.  That is not practical or realistic. 

 

Look,  I get it.  People don't want to feel marginalized or put against,  and to that extent I get the whole idea of inclusiveness and political correctness,  but the danger is that we are all unique individuals,  and you can't realistically please everyone.   Is there a responsibility from a developer to avoid causing harm? Sure,  but equally there's a responsibility for personal awareness from those who interact with it that the context matters even more,  and that slights that are perceived are very often figments of one's own insecurities and have absolutely nothing to do with the game.   

 

In other words,  if you're looking to be upset, you can find reasons anywhere.  That doesn't mean they are necessarily valid "aggressions," however.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Elan.7523

[Kieyt.3108]

Can I make a potential counterpoint that has only lightly been touched on here?

I actually agree with you that the name is insulting.  But I think it should be and I think the joke doesn't work if it isn't.  In-game, the Asura who made it is such a narcissist that he not only plasters his own face everywhere inside it (Moto), but he even plays the part of the princess as well (it's just him in a wig).  And pictures of both abound.

This Asura is absolutely insulting the people who pick this mode.  And it's in character.  And this is an RPG.   Instead of letting the anger you feel boil out into the real world and affect you, channel it in game.   Beat his dumb infantile mode, collect those baubles and force him to begrudgingly hand over the prizes.   Smugly look down on him for every single bauble or zone you clear on Normal.  

What I'm getting at is, instead of letting this become a sticking point for a potential bad time for you, let it become a storytelling moment.  Embrace it.  Have some fun with it: if your character isn't an Asura, how does this affect their view on the little sharks?  If you are an Asura, how will you get back at Moto?

And then stepping back outside of the realm of roleplay, GW2 is a community game with so many players willing to step in and help.  I promise you so many of the HPs out in HoT and PoF are outside the reach of some players and without those trains they'd never get them - but no one shames those players.  People eagerly help those players get it.  SAB is no different - your fellow players will help you.  Their options to help may be more limited but if they needed to checkpoint port you across the levels I'm sure many players would have no problem doing so.  

There's a beauty in humanity that even if some of us struggle with tasks, many others have an abundance of strength or skill in that same task.  All of us need a hand sometime, whether we have an officially diagnosed disability or not.  Asking for help is not weakness or shameful.  I think you'll find more success in asking for a hand up the mountain rather than asking the mountain to be moved, in the end.

Also quick edit for clarity: I LOVE the name. I DO NOT want it changed.  It needs to be this blatant for the joke to work.  Calling it something like "Fluffy mode" or simply "Easy mode" completely loses the actual joke and then it's just a mode.   Infantile is so over-the-top in its description.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Kieyt.3108
Clarity

[solemn.9608]

Please keep irl politics out of my favourite game mode. The world does not need any more bubble wrapping; it has more than enough already. Call it what it is and have a sense of humour about it if youre physically inclined to play it this way.

[Katary.7096]

47 minutes ago, Atria.6729 said:

I was refearing to many posts here claiming that OP should not take things so much to themselves, "it's just a name" "it's just a joke" "not everything is about you". So if "it's just a name" than changing it would not matter since "it's just a name" (possible new names mentioned in this place were both clasic like "easy mode" or "beginner mode" and more lore-based like "bookah mode" or "progeny mode" since it is asuran based). I did not make a hypothesis that after a possible change everyone will be happy and going on their merry way.

You suggested that people who don't care about the name now, would still not care about the name after it gets changed. I don't see how that is a clear-cut issue, since the reasoning you provide goes as far as "it is that way now, so it should be that way in the future", it's not bad, but it's not great either.

 

1 hour ago, Atria.6729 said:

And I never wrote "nobady". I wrote "most people here" which refeared to this particualr topic and players answers to OP's idea. Of course no course of action will ever make everyone 100% happy but I believe we know that by now.

That's fair. You are correct.

 

1 hour ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

But, I think there is a difference between "I want to keep the current name because I prefer the status quo" and "I like 'Infantile Mode' specifically."

I agree, there is a difference. At the same time, someone who likes the current name because they are generally speaking not a fan of change would not be any more or less valuable then someone who likes the name because they think Arenanet hit the nail on the head in the context of what SAB is supposed to be.

 

1 hour ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

I'm hearing a lot of arguments for the former, but not a lot for the latter. While there are some that say it's a good callback to 90's gaming, I think there are ways to balance that desire - to have a name that calls back to those games - and my desire to not have that specific label be used to do it.

So no matter which arguments people bring up, in the end you still expect them to make some concessions so you can get what you want? You are certainly not lacking in confidence. How about this: You have read a number of different takes on the topic and you also have your own opinions to consider. What if you came up with (or "borrowed") a number of alternative names, which you estimate might make (almost) everyone involved content and put them up in a poll? Perhaps there is a majority opinion not yet known for a different and altogether better name for the game mode.

 

1 hour ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

In other words, there are several intersecting value arguments to be had here, and it is worth taking them all into consideration. The people who want no change whatsoever across the board... well, I don't think they will necessarily be DISpleased with the new name, or at least not for long.

Making assumptions is a funny thing. If someone had asked me two weeks ago if I thought that there are people who have a serious issue with the name Infantile Mode I would have answered that I don't believe so. I really should know better by now, no matter the question, there seems to be at least one person everytime. It's the reasonable thing to expect after all, given how many humans there are.

 

1 hour ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

Whatever it changes to, that will swiftly become the NEW status quo, especially if whatever the change is happens between SAB 2022 and SAB 2023. The people who want a lore-appropriate name have a valid concern, because they want something that doesn't break immersion.

There are players who want the SAB gone entirely, or at least moved out of Rata Sum because the thing existing breaks their immersion of the game in general. Though I haven't heard about that in some time, perhaps these players no longer play or they realized that that option simply isn't on the table.

 

2 hours ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

The people who want a callback to 90's gaming have a valid concern, because that's the whole aesthetic of SAB. The people who want something funny have a valid concern, because the whole event is meant to be a joke/parody/prank. 

And, I think I have a valid concern in not wanting that joke to be at the inadvertent expense of disabled people. 

Depends. Are laughing at jokes which come at the expense of people other than yourself?

 

I think there is something about an earlier post, which you made in response to Rogue.8235 that I misunderstand. Perhaps you could help me out with it? You made the statement: "If by "treatment of the condition" you mean making it such that disabled people are not infantilized by society, yes that would in fact be lovely." I thought that this meant that you would like to live in a world in which people with disabilities and people without disabilities are treated no different from each other. Was that not what you meant?

[Ashantara.8731]

4 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said:

Why should i have empaty to someone that doesn't have?

We said over and over that we like the way it is, why can't the OP empathize with us?

I have no words for your false claim of being empathic or deserving empathy for being rude and ignorant.

[VerdantThorn.9345]

1 hour ago, Kieyt.3108 said:

Can I make a potential counterpoint that has only lightly been touched on here?

I actually agree with you that the name is insulting.  But I think it should be and I think the joke doesn't work if it isn't.  In-game, the Asura who made it is such a narcissist that he not only plasters his own face everywhere inside it (Moto), but he even plays the part of the princess as well (it's just him in a wig).  And pictures of both abound.

This Asura is absolutely insulting the people who pick this mode.  And it's in character.  And this is an RPG.   Instead of letting the anger you feel boil out into the real world and affect you, channel it in game.   Beat his dumb infantile mode, collect those baubles and force him to begrudgingly hand over the prizes.   Smugly look down on him for every single bauble or zone you clear on Normal.  

 

Sure you can! And, I thought about just that point ever since people mentioned it a while back when they brought up "Bookah mode." Three things have floated about my brain, in particular (it seems that I like to think in 3's, lol).

First, in some of those cases it is clearly not JUST the in-game Asura talking to the characters, but the out-of-game developers talking to the players (albeit in a tongue-in-cheek way). In particular, with the "Baby's First" collection/achievement set, which is non-diegetic (hey thanks for that reminder of the existence of that awesome word via the patch notes, devs!). That is, there is no in-world counterpart to that collection, so clearly that Asura could not have programmed that. It is like the background music in the zones - there for our benefit as part of the game, not something that were we actually in The Commander's head we would actually hear/see/whatever. That is the GW2 game devs talking to the GW2 player who selects that mode. That's not the case with "Infantile Mode" itself, but the achievement could not exist without the mode enabling it. 

Second, that is just not a phrasing that feels natural coming out of the mouth of an Asura. When you have words like "progeny" or "Bookah" that are already clearly rooted parts of the Asura lexicon and in-game voice, the name of that game mode just doesn't ring as natural. I will grant that is a subjective matter and I will also grant that after arguing this point for two days it may have grown in significance in my mind, but combined with the prior point it makes it for a sour gaming experience. Like, we all know that quest dialog and such exists in a liminal space between diegetic and non-diegetic, yeah? It is understood that it serves an immersive purpose of keeping us in the game, yes, but that it also serves a mechanical purpose of advancing a quest along a path toward a destination... and so it's not purely "words spoken by NPCs" nor is it purely not that either. Like, if an NPC were to give a tutorial on how to use Dodge, we imagine that they say "you do it like- [they demonstrate it]" but the in-game text reads "You hit [key] to Dodge" and so the voice of the developers does come through that somewhat, and it's not just "the words that character would say." 

Which brings me to my last point. There is already a line - or a number of lines - the devs don't cross when it comes to words. They don't because saying certain things doesn't make for a positive gaming experience, regardless of whether characters would say them or not. The existence of a profanity filter, and the banning of those words from player/character names is already an indication that there is a line past which the developers don't want to go. So, why didn't that Asura - already a jerk, already insulting, already a narcissist - call that mode "R****d mode"? The developers, unconstrained by such filers, COULD have done that. Because the game developers know WAY better than to be saying that, obviously. It's the same reason we don't have racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc slurs used by NPCs in game, even by characters who have all the moral fiber of a septic ooze. Yes they probably would say those sorts of things, but no having that sort of language in a game does not make for a fun gaming experience. So, out with those words and in with kittens. 

From the start of this I hesitated to make this fully "about" ableism (I've especially hesitated to use that word), because turning the conversation in that direction almost always brings out ugliness. But, at least for me, that's what it IS about (also, ugliness done happened in spades already, so I might as well). I just don't want to have that kind of language in my life in places where I can avoid it, especially in places I go to relax. When I can act to fix it, I do what I can. So, when I saw this, I spoke up about it. Will something be done? I have no idea. Will that be the end of my trying to fix these types of problems? Not in the least. Is this the most important issue of that type facing GW2, or society more broadly? No, not even close. But, when you see a pothole, you report it to the City. You don't have to wait it grows to car eatin' size before you report it. I wish I'd caught this one years ago when SAB first launched, but c'est la vie. 

And yeah, I'm fully aware of ways I can work past that. I can get with groups to get past hard content and get all sorts of help, and I do in fact do those things when appropriate. Thanks for the advice, really. I'll use it when and where I need to.

[Kieyt.3108]

12 hours ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

 

Sure you can! And, I thought about just that point ever since people mentioned it a while back when they brought up "Bookah mode." Three things have floated about my brain, in particular (it seems that I like to think in 3's, lol).

First, in some of those cases it is clearly not JUST the in-game Asura talking to the characters, but the out-of-game developers talking to the players (albeit in a tongue-in-cheek way). In particular, with the "Baby's First" collection/achievement set, which is non-diegetic (hey thanks for that reminder of the existence of that awesome word via the patch notes, devs!). That is, there is no in-world counterpart to that collection, so clearly that Asura could not have programmed that. It is like the background music in the zones - there for our benefit as part of the game, not something that were we actually in The Commander's head we would actually hear/see/whatever. That is the GW2 game devs talking to the GW2 player who selects that mode. That's not the case with "Infantile Mode" itself, but the achievement could not exist without the mode enabling it. 

 

The achievements are also a tongue-in-cheek nod to the games that hand out achievements for doing basically nothing.  Stuff like "started the game!"  "jumped for the first time!"  "Opened the settings menu!"  It is - again - not calling YOU a baby.  It's an absolute mockery of that game trend that was going on for awhile.  SAB isn't poking fun at the players - it's poking fun at the games industry in general.    As for "Infantile" itself not being part of Asura vocabulary - most of the language used in SAB isn't.  Look at how the few NPCs talk.  "Bubble Baubles."  Etc.  Moto isn't using normal Asura words in the game because, well, it's a game.  A game where the characters within aren't even asuras (they appear to be mostly humans and a few elves).  It's a lot like many fantasy RPGs using "ye olde English" in that respect - Moto is using terminology and words that make "sense" in his setting. 

This also isn't a normal area in the game.  Super Adventure Box is _literally_ a video game within the world of GW2.  So those achievements COULD very well be in-game/in-character.  It's incredibly cheeky and 4th wall breaky.

While I am against changing the name because I think it is a fantastic joke and changing it won't make it land, I do sympathize with your situation.  I really hope you're able to find a way to mentally shift your viewpoint and understand that it is the mode - and the practices within that mode - that are being called infantile - not you or anyone playing the mode.    I know how you feel - I see you.  And I wish more people here had been more civil.  The unfortunate reality is you are basically playing buzzkill during an event a lot of people look forward to every year.  May not be your intent, and people should definitely stay civil, but that's definitely why you're running into the more... enthusiastic opposition.

 

 

12 hours ago, VerdantThorn.9345 said:

Which brings me to my last point. There is already a line - or a number of lines - the devs don't cross when it comes to words. They don't because saying certain things doesn't make for a positive gaming experience, regardless of whether characters would say them or not. The existence of a profanity filter, and the banning of those words from player/character names is already an indication that there is a line past which the developers don't want to go. So, why didn't that Asura - already a jerk, already insulting, already a narcissist - call that mode "R****d mode"? The developers, unconstrained by such filers, COULD have done that. Because the game developers know WAY better than to be saying that, obviously.

It's actually pretty common for words to be at least censored from player language options but still used in game.  For example, Final Fantasy XIV will censor the word "w***e," but characters use the term themselves ("whoreson" being a particularly notable example).    They're also not outright banned - just filtered by default and can be turned off.   It's more to meet a checkbox for the ESRB and other critic groups.

And as for the "R**** mode" that wouldn't make any sense and wouldn't work with the joke (aside from being horribly offensive).  Because THEN the mode is calling the player something and would imply the mode is for the disabled.  It is not.  Infantile describes the MODE, and the mode BABIES the player.  It treats the player like a baby to the point of being so overly pandering: rainbow clouds that basically bypass the entire level, empty "participation" achievements, etc.    It isn't calling the player bad or incompetent.  The mode itself is infantile to the point of comically missing the point.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Kieyt.3108
Formatting, better wording of thoughts.

[VerdantThorn.9345]

2 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

I agree, there is a difference. At the same time, someone who likes the current name because they are generally speaking not a fan of change would not be any more or less valuable then someone who likes the name because they think Arenanet hit the nail on the head in the context of what SAB is supposed to be.

No, they're not less valuable. However, in this conversation their desire is irreconcilable with my own. I'm asking that something be changed, they're asking that nothing be changed. So, they are not someone who I can convince by changing my idea, and thus I can only really accept that they exist and then move on. Is their existence valueless to me? Not at all. It's as valuable as anyone. However, where fundamentally irreconcilable with my own, it just has to be accepted as a given. I hold no malice toward that view, I just can't alter my request in a way that pleases both of us, and nor can I just not make it without ignoring the reason I made that request in the first place. 

2 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

So no matter which arguments people bring up, in the end you still expect them to make some concessions so you can get what you want? You are certainly not lacking in confidence.

That's not what I said. Please don't take me out of context. I gave specific examples of arguments I've heard so far, so it's not "no matter which," it's "given these examples," and yes, my request still stands in light of that.

My confidence is the kind that one can only have after... well, the life I've lived. There are a lot of stories. Maybe you'll hear them some time, and maybe I'll hear yours. 

 

2 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

How about this: You have read a number of different takes on the topic and you also have your own opinions to consider. What if you came up with (or "borrowed") a number of alternative names, which you estimate might make (almost) everyone involved content and put them up in a poll? Perhaps there is a majority opinion not yet known for a different and altogether better name for the game mode.

That seems reasonable, though at the same time Guild Wars 2 is not run as a democracy. It's a corporatocracy, with ArenaNet being the sole proprietor in the business of pleasing us and pleasing their other financial stakeholders (I'm not certain of exactly who they are). I'm not sure going to that effort is worth it, given that ultimately they'll just make whatever decision they'll make based on their own values and corporate interests. Also, baked into that is the assumption that the audience who'd respond to the poll is representative of the audience who'd care about the change, and that's not an assumption that necessarily holds water in my mind. Internet polls are terribly unscientific because of a self-selection sampling bias, and the opinion of the forums is not the same thing as the opinion of the player base.

2 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

I think there is something about an earlier post, which you made in response to Rogue.8235 that I misunderstand. Perhaps you could help me out with it? You made the statement: "If by "treatment of the condition" you mean making it such that disabled people are not infantilized by society, yes that would in fact be lovely." I thought that this meant that you would like to live in a world in which people with disabilities and people without disabilities are treated no different from each other. Was that not what you meant?

No, it's not. What I meant by "not infantilized by society" was that I wished to live in a world where disabled people were not treated like infants - i.e. like people who can't care for themselves, or are not capable of speaking, acting or making decisions on their own behalf. Further, a world where they also were not treated like that to such a degree that BEING treated like that was a callback to tons of bad memories for them. "Treated no different from [able-bodied people]" is a very, very different idea. It calls to ideas like removing wheelchair ramps - "why should they get them when we have to use the stairs?" - or disabled parking spaces - "why do WE have to walk all that way when they don't?" - or disability assistance - "I can work and make a living, they should have to as well" -  and is a completely different thing than my not wanting to be treated like a child.

[KeoLegend.5132]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I have no words for your false claim of being empathic or deserving empathy for being rude and ignorant.

See, thats the excuse you can use when you are wrong. Avoid the subject, call me names and move on instead of arguing. It just proves my point and makes it clear to everyone else that someone here got a victim complex

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

SAB is a throwback to old school games. The difficulty name itself is also a throwback to what easy modes were called in very old games and how they were depicted:

Wolfenstien

[RyuDragnier.9476]

I see no issue with the name of the mode, nor do I see any shame in using it. After all, it's the best mode to complete achievements in, with only a few of them requiring Normal or Trib modes.

Edited April 2, 2022 by RyuDragnier.9476

[kettering.6823]

Comparing 'infantile mode' to an actual slur is absolutely insane. 

I am a sensitive person myself, so I am certainly sympathetic to your feelings, but just because we personally take offense to something does not mean it is a systemic problem that needs to be changed. This is making a mountain out of a mole hill. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

There's nothing infantile about happy smiling clouds that fart rainbow bridges.