I feel excluded from EoD because Soo Won meta event is too hard

[Vaen.2605]

The average casual player doesn't have an hour+ to waste on an event that may likely fail, and reward poorly even if it doesn't.  This is poor design, especially considering why many of us are playing GW2 over the other more time-consuming options.

 

I love the fight, but will never go back to it.  In fact, it's pushed me away from the game.

[Vayne.8563]

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

Now it is getting ridiculous. Well, I wrote before that the average player is not as stupid as you portray him. 

It's not about being stupid. That's judgemental. You shouldn't be calling players names.  The average player isn't as INVESTED. That's what you're missing. I don't call people stupid because they have jobs and families and they're playing a game that they don't want to make into second jobs. They solo stuff. Maybe they don't join guilds. Maybe they look some stuff up. It doesn't make them stupid.

Anyway this is going nowhere. You have your opinion, I have mine and neither of us is going to convince the other. It's up to each person to make their own determination on what they believe.

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It's not about being stupid. That's judgemental. You shouldn't be calling players names.  The average player isn't as INVESTED. That's what you're missing. I don't call people stupid because they have jobs and families and they're playing a game that they don't want to make into second jobs. They solo stuff. Maybe they don't join guilds. Maybe they look some stuff up. It doesn't make them stupid.

Anyway this is going nowhere. You have your opinion, I have mine and neither of us is going to convince the other. It's up to each person to make their own determination on what they believe.

I don’t call them names. You portray the average player as stupid and I say that this is not true. I know you want to push your agenda here. But come on, you can’t be taken seriously. I have a job and a partner and I know what alac is or how to find additional information about the game. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Holmindeboks.3490]

this expansion is a joke, the only thing that is useful from it to me is the xp boosts i can obtain at the training grounds. and the free gold every week for antique runestones. 

just after release i tried eod meta but failed every time, i worked my ... off for 1+ hours for nothing. and that 7 times.
some times i joined a pre made group and still a fail. on twitter a raider posted that they had 3 minutes left on the timer before nerf with every possible buff available. after the nerf it's still to hard. 

then they moved it to a strike at raid difficulty, again a problem and still not easy to obtain. this expansion is pure frustration to me. + strikes are 5 times longer and 5 times worse loot drops. 
first the forced story. i just finished legendary amulet story and then i had to go for eod story.  
turtle is locked and all my xp is wasted in cantha. we should get a spirit shard if the xp bar is full, no matter if you have to unlock or not. and you get a Li when finished all strikes every week, for raiders a free Li every week, for many others another disappointment. 

they just have to make this boss an instanced battle like marionette or dragons thing, forgot the name because i haven't been there for a long time because thats also a time waste, 20 runs and not a single aurene chest. i mean, instance so we don't have to waste time on a meta before the boss appears. for story you have created so many maps where you are proud of and you want us to (forcing) play it. because there are features behind it. but for soo-won you just leave it as it is. 

and about the strike challenge modes. many skilled players did it the first time and are all whining that it is too easy, they killed it, got a title and all other rewards from it. so then they hope you increase difficulty. but all other players who are having less skill for normal mode doesn't even get a chance to clear challange mode. if you buff it, then you should reset everyone's achievements from it. i mean it looks weird if someone obtained something and asking to make it harder, and others have to deal with the harder version while the person who asked for it kept their achievement for the easy version. 
my idea here is, leave the fight as it is, and make an option to chance the 10 man version to a 5 man version with better loot but keep the difficulty of 10 player instance. so everyone have to do the work for 2 players. this should be a challenge to me.

and soo-won loot, 1 hour waste without a reward. the only thing is the infusion who 99% of the playerbase will never obtain through the fight. so basically there is no loot for this encounter. i saw there are 47 listings for 10k on the infusion box. this let see how rare it is. 

i am a person who mostly try to think positive but i have to be realistic and this is my opinion on cantha. 
the good thing is, this game has no subscription so i keep playing it. i play for loot and skins. i left other subscription based mmo after a half year no loot drop, i thought, no loot no money for you. so maybe this is the reason i don't get 1k+ drops, because i don't spend enough. 

and yes it got better with free skins in years. but looks like the only goal in game is to make gold and buy what you want. and don't expect anything to drop.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Holmindeboks.3490

[Vayne.8563]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

I don’t call them names. You portray the average player as stupid and I say that this is not true. I know you want to push your agenda here. But come on, this can’t be taken serious. I have a job and a partner and I know what alac is or how to find additional information about the game. 

The average player never posts on the forums. lol

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, vicky.9751 said:

 

 But weren't people asking for harder metas for years? Because PoF really had no metas. Now people are mad about a meta that requires coordination like auric basin?

Yes. Some people were asking for that. And at the same time some people were complaining about difficulty in HoT (and, yes, in PoF as well). It might surprise you, but those two groups are quite likely not the same people.

Besides, no, if this meta required as much coordination, and individual effort as Auric Basin, we would not have those threads, because most players would be perfectly happy with it. The reason why we do have those threads is because it's way more like Triple Trouble than AB. And in many ways probably even more demanding than that.

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The average player never posts on the forums. lol

I never said that I am the average player and maybe you should stop speaking in their names. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

I don’t call them names. You portray the average player as stupid and I say that this is not true.

And yet you're the one that call this very common behaviour "stupidity". It is not. It's merely lack of information due to not feeling the need to reach for third-party sources in order to look for informations about the game. Most players do not look for in-game information outside the game. That's not stupidity. That's a completely normal behaviour.

[Vayne.8563]

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

I never said that I am the average player and maybe you should stop to speak in their name. 

I'm offering an opinion on a forum, nothing more. You don't have to agree.  Either away I won't be responding to you again.

[yoni.7015]

6 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And yet you're the one that call this very common behaviour "stupidity". It is not. It's merely lack of information due to not feeling the need to reach for third-party sources in order to look for informations about the game. Most players do not look for in-game information outside the game. That's not stupidity. That's a completely normal behaviour.

No I did not. So when someone portrays someone as stupid and I call that out and write that this is not true, then I am not calling the someone stupid. Maybe you misunderstood what I wrote. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

No I did not. So when someone portrays someone as stupid and I call that out and write that this is not true, then I am not calling the someone stupid. 

No, you are the one that insist that this perfectly normal portrayal of average players (which is, btw, completely true) means all those players that behave in this (again, completely normal) way are stupid.

Again, average player does not reach outside the game for informations about the game. Thus, average player generally lacks any information that is not directly available (or easily presented) in the game. Many, if not mosts, informations about GW2 mechanics are not presented in such a way and for most players require looking for outside sources to learn. Thus, most players do not learn those things.

You may claim it means those players are stupid, but those are purely your own words, based on your own judgement. Not mine, or Vayne's.

[yoni.7015]

6 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No, you are the one that insist that this perfectly normal portrayal of average players (which is, btw, completely true) means all those players that behave in this (again, completely normal) way are stupid.

Again, average player does not reach outside the game for informations about the game. Thus, average player generally lacks any information that is not directly available (or easily presented) in the game. Many, if not mosts, informations about GW2 mechanics are not presented in such a way and for most players require looking for outside sources to learn. Thus, most players do not learn those things.

You may claim it means those players are stupid, but those are purely your own words, based on your own judgement. Not mine, or Vayne's.

I wouldn’t even say that this is true for the average player. But okay, you have your opinion and I have mine. But don’t confuse your opinion with fact. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Sure, but the average player doesn't know about subsquads and I'm not even convinced the average player knows about alacrity. I don't believe the average player has the knowledge to seperate one group from another.

The Your idea of average player joins the meta squad. Lets assume -literally just to fit your opinion here- at that point that average player doesn't know about alacrity or subgroups. After joining the squad from lfg, the squad has descriptions included about alac/quick/dps and if it doesn't (but it does, again, we're just going for some less probably "what ifs" for the sake of matching your idea of this situation), the commie will start announcing it in the chat anyways. After seeing this once, the player now learns about the idea of alacrity, more specialized builds and subgroups. It doesn't mean the average player instantly learns everything. It means it's a process and after joining a relatively organized squad, the chances are you can't even claim that "they don't know about alactity or subgroups". All it takes is joning a relatively organized lfg group -which clearly is not rare for that event at all, at this point it's probably harder to find a disorganized one in there?- ONCE and those players are already at the very least aware of those parts of the game.

[DexterousGecko.6328]

2 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

Yes, I explained this in a previous post. This is not rocket science. Or does the average player not have time to use the LFG after he came home from work to his wife and kid? 

 

I'm willing to bet that I'm more "average" than either you or Vayne, and I don't even look at LFG. If I happen to be in a map doing something, I'll follow along and do the meta if I happen to come across it, but honestly I have no clue whether or not it's going to fail or not. I just do it until I get bored, and then leave.

 

Example, I followed a group (not in-group myself) in Cantha attacking some sort of shields with turtles yesterday. It was fun, i did a couple of events with them and then at about  the 45 min mark, it was feeling a bit too long, so I went and did other things. I think you severely overestimate what the "average" player knows about.

 

side note: how exactly would i gauge if the meta is going to be successful or not by looking at LFG?

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

I'm willing to bet that I'm more "average" than either you or Vayne, and I don't even look at LFG. If I happen to be in a map doing something, I'll follow along and do the meta if I happen to come across it, but honestly I have no clue whether or not it's going to fail or not. I just do it until I get bored, and then leave.

Point in case against what Vayne said. You don't use lfg, but it's not because you don't know about it and not because that information was somehow hard to reach for you. It's because you don't want to. You're free to make that choice, but lets not pretend it's anything else than that. Meanwhile the "go to" response here seems to be "but it's average player and the average player just doesn't know!". There's a difference between "I don't know" and "I don't want to". Seems to me it's pretty much what yoni was talking about -or at least that's how I understand it.

Again, make no mistake, you're free to not want to use lfg, join groups or w/e. But then others aren't exactly free to pretend that you're doing it because of how hard the information about lfg -or whatever else was mentioned above- is to reach. It's not, it's in the game. You choose not to use it and if you want to then complain about it... Oh well.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, yoni.7015 said:

I wouldn’t even say that this is true for the average player. But okay, you have your opinion and I have mine. But don’t confuse your opinion with fact. 

I'm quite sure that what you consider to be an "average player" is actually way above that, but let's just agree to disagree about this.

I'd still like to point out one thing, since you brought up the "don’t confuse your opinion with fact" thing.

You considering the way certain players play this game to mean they're stupid was exactly that. An opinion. Your opinion about those players. Not mine, Not Vayne's, but yours. So, if someone here is calling some players stupid, it is you, not anyone else. Don't confuse this personal opinion of yours with facts.

[yoni.7015]

6 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I'm quite sure that what you consider to be an "average player" is actually way above that, but let's just agree to disagree about this.

I'd still like to point out one thing, since you brought up the "don’t confuse your opinion with fact" thing.

You considering the way certain players play this game to mean they're stupid was exactly that. An opinion. Your opinion about those players. Not mine, Not Vayne's, but yours. So, if someone here is calling some players stupid, it is you, not anyone else. Don't confuse this personal opinion of yours with facts.

You still misunderstand what I meant or maybe you don’t want to understand. I don’t really care. 
Unlike you, I can separate opinion from fact. 

[yoni.7015]

29 minutes ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

 

I'm willing to bet that I'm more "average" than either you or Vayne,

According to Vayne you can’t be average because you write on the forum, sorry. 

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

When categorising the PvE GW2 community into tiers based on skills, it probably goes a bit like this (PvP/WvW is a bit harder to categorise probably):

 

1. Top percentage raiders ( hardest raid wings + CM's) 

2. ordinary raiders ( will do the easier raid wings mostly, usually won't do CM's) 

3. Fractal players with regular to daily CM clears, possibly EoD CM regular clearers (may also be the tier below depending on viewpoint)

4. Ordinary fractal players 

5. Strike mission players 

6. dungeon and other instanced content players 

7.story enjoyers 

8. open world players 

9. roleplayers 

10. play-how-I-want-players 

11. People that are utterly confused by any sort of mechanic

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bottom-tier: Players on the official forums complaining about the DE meta while ignoring all the advice given concerning how to improve themselves

Edited May 22, 2022 by Wielder Of Magic.3950

[Luci.7018]

57 minutes ago, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

When categorising the PvE GW2 community into tiers based on skills, it probably goes a bit like this (PvP/WvW is a bit harder to categorise probably):

 

1. Top percentage raiders ( hardest raid wings + CM's) 

2. ordinary raiders ( will do the easier raid wings mostly, usually won't do CM's) 

3. Fractal players with regular to daily CM clears, possibly EoD CM regular clearers (may also be the tier below depending on viewpoint)

4. Ordinary fractal players 

5. Strike mission players 

6. dungeon and other instanced content players 

7.story enjoyers 

8. open world players 

9. roleplayers 

10. play-how-I-want-players 

11. People that are utterly confused by any sort of mechanic

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bottom-tier: Players on the official forums complaining about the DE meta while ignoring all the advice given concerning how to improve themselves

How you describe the vocal minority that raids, that believe  that  hard content , will make the casuals to  love raids ?

Regardless if casuals  impove their dps , the raiding community will isolate itself behind the CM Anka/DWTD/Drum/KP achievement , to do their dailies fast

Edited May 22, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Luci.7018 said:

How you describe the vocal minority that raids, that believe  that  hard content , will make the casuals to  love raids ?

Regardless if casuals  impove their dps , the raiding community will isolate itself behind the CM Anka/DWTD/Drum/KP achievement , to do their dailies fast

Well if causals improve then they can do casual squads and take down the strikes/raids or what ever right?

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well if causals improve then they can do casual squads and take down the strikes/raids or what ever right?

Aren't they are doing normal Strikes ?

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

Aren't they are doing normal Strikes ?

Well then what is the problem, seems what Anet did worked so why complain about it?

[Vayne.8563]

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The Your idea of average player joins the meta squad. Lets assume -literally just to fit your opinion here- at that point that average player doesn't know about alacrity or subgroups. After joining the squad from lfg, the squad has descriptions included about alac/quick/dps and if it doesn't (but it does, again, we're just going for some less probably "what ifs" for the sake of matching your idea of this situation), the commie will start announcing it in the chat anyways. After seeing this once, the player now learns about the idea of alacrity, more specialized builds and subgroups. It doesn't mean the average player instantly learns everything. It means it's a process and after joining a relatively organized squad, the chances are you can't even claim that "they don't know about alactity or subgroups". All it takes is joning a relatively organized lfg group -which clearly is not rare for that event at all, at this point it's probably harder to find a disorganized one in there?- ONCE and those players are already at the very least aware of those parts of the game.

Because people who are doing events always read map chat, while they're fighting to survive?  Some people even have map chat switched off entirely btw.  They see a bunch of stuff being said, but that doesn't mean they can read or absorb it while doing something else. Hell I can't usually do that unless I'm expecting to have to.  This is the problem with experienced players. They EXPECT that information coming in so they assume everyone does.

 

I can listen in voice with a commander but I can't follow map chat and do events at the same time, very often anyway.

[Vayne.8563]

4 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

Aren't they are doing normal Strikes ?

Not the people in my guild.  We have a harder core contingent that raid and do t4 fractals and most of them are doing T4 strikes. We have another couple of hundred people that have probably yet to enter a dungeon or fractal never mind a strike.