Counterpoint: GW2 has the best in-game cash shop I've ever seen

[Shiyo.3578]

Game has had RNG gambling loot boxes(black lion chests..) since beta, not sure why the sudden outrage. This is literally a 4+ year old complaint.

[Dalrian.6034]

@pah.4931 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:Sorry, but a cash shop that lets you buy a chance at what you want instead of just being able to buy what you want is a bad thing. I suppose it could be the best the OP has ever seen, but that doesn't mean it's a good one.

But they have been consistent with this. i.e., black lion chests (slightly different but still very RNG-based).

The only miss, imo, is that mount skins should be able to be put on the TP (though if that were the case then I am certain they would not have made it so you couldn't get dupes).

I have no problem with people disagreeing with how this went down and expressing their feelings. For sure, you need to do that. But the posts I am reading are so entitled and whiney, it's just... sad. As if Anet owes them mount skins, when 3 months ago they didn't have mounts.

It's funny. Blizzard adds things to WoW like Looking For Dungeon/Raid that has serious negative impacts on the actually in-game design and its players, and most people just go "if you don't like it, don't do it" unable to see how such decisions effect the holistic picture. And then when Anet adds something to the game that does NOT impact in-game design or its players at all, the "don't like it, don't do it" argument is "stupid" and "wrong."

And people are complaining about BLCs as well. Mount skins are just another step in the process they started long time ago to slowly make their playerbase used to this and exploit it hard in the future.

But my question to you would be... why not just ignore mount skins and be happy? The basic mounts look fine. There will be other skins you can buy (there is currently one for 2k gems). This doesn't effect you. It's like being mad at the price to craft a legendary. Just don't craft it.

I'm with OP, I think this is fine. Skins don't affect my gameplay so I have no requirement to pay up. I don't understand why people would feel entitled to demanding a skin be cheaper. Anet sets a price, and I decide if that price is something I want to pay... in this case it's not.

I see some validity in the slippery-slope argument, but again this doesn't affect gameplay. The moment something affecting my gameplay gets locked behind a paywall (e.g., better armor, new mount mechanic) then I'll raise hell and complain.

[Atzros.8715]

Yes, their cash shop is nice, and I would prefer they keep it that way instead of treading down the dark path of loot boxes.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

@Shiyo.3578 said:Game has had RNG gambling loot boxes(black lion chests..) since beta, not sure why the sudden outrage. This is literally a 4+ year old complaint.

Using a bad idea to justify another doesn't make the new one any better. When I use money to buy something, I want something specific, not just a chance. I don't recall ever going into a coffee house and handing them $5 and them telling me they'll randomly give me something.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Game has had RNG gambling loot boxes(black lion chests..) since beta, not sure why the sudden outrage. This is literally a 4+ year old complaint.

Using a bad idea to justify another doesn't make the new one any better. When I use money to buy something, I want something specific, not just a chance. I don't recall ever going into a coffee house and handing them $5 and them telling me they'll randomly give me something.

Bad analogy. This is more like you ordering something random. When you buy the ticket, you are saying "give me something random" and handing them 5$. Its not like anet is deceiving you about what you are getting. When you buy the ticket, you know exactly what you are purchasing.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

Just get rid of those RNG items, everything else is fine.

[Dreams.3128]

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Game has had RNG gambling loot boxes(black lion chests..) since beta, not sure why the sudden outrage. This is literally a 4+ year old complaint.

Using a bad idea to justify another doesn't make the new one any better. When I use money to buy something, I want something specific, not just a chance. I don't recall ever going into a coffee house and handing them $5 and them telling me they'll randomly give me something.

Yet no one complains about trading cards. Hm, that's a scam in itself but you people would LOVE spending your credit cards on:

MagicWarhammerPokemonYugiohForce of Will

Bonus, these games are all digital now so you can credit card away on packs and packs are cards. But that's okay right? We're not gambling there right. We just want to complain here and here only in gw2 , but no other mmo because we want to justify this ONE specific thing.

These arguments are so weak, this would make my debating instructor chortle. My god.

[ImTasty.2163]

@Gerrand.3085 said:Much squirreling.

If you can name any western mmos which have worse cash stores then GW2 please name them so we can debate. And don't throw in those empty platitudes that we should excuse the actions of corporations because they treat their devs badly.

WoW. You have a monthly sub + full price expansions + cash shop. Many people tend to agree that a reasonable cash shop is acceptable for F2P or B2P games but adding a cash shop on a sub based MMO is just plain wrong.

For a while SWTOR had a pretty bad cash shop. It was pretty much 80% loot boxes. They have improved it over the time but the majority of the things are still loot boxes but they have added ways to just purchase the item you want.

[Lyger.5429]

" GW2 has the best in-game cash shop I've ever seen"

That's why we are trying to keep it that way.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Game has had RNG gambling loot boxes(black lion chests..) since beta, not sure why the sudden outrage. This is literally a 4+ year old complaint.

Using a bad idea to justify another doesn't make the new one any better. When I use money to buy something, I want something specific, not just a chance. I don't recall ever going into a coffee house and handing them $5 and them telling me they'll randomly give me something.

Yet no one complains about trading cards. Hm, that's a scam in itself but you people would LOVE spending your credit cards on:

MagicWarhammerPokemonYugiohForce of Will

Bonus, these games are all digital now so you can credit card away on packs and packs are cards. But that's okay right? We're not gambling there right. We just want to complain here and here only in gw2 , but no other mmo because we want to justify this ONE specific thing.

These arguments are so weak, this would make my debating instructor chortle. My god.

You may want to clarify who 'you people' are. I don't spend money on anything you listed there. Your strawman didn't stand for long.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

Overall it's still pretty good but this new thing sets a bad precedent.

[Ashen.2907]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Game has had RNG gambling loot boxes(black lion chests..) since beta, not sure why the sudden outrage. This is literally a 4+ year old complaint.

Using a bad idea to justify another doesn't make the new one any better. When I use money to buy something, I want something specific, not just a chance. I don't recall ever going into a coffee house and handing them $5 and them telling me they'll randomly give me something.

Yet no one complains about trading cards. Hm, that's a scam in itself but you people would LOVE spending your credit cards on:

MagicWarhammerPokemonYugiohForce of Will

Bonus, these games are all digital now so you can credit card away on packs and packs are cards. But that's okay right? We're not gambling there right. We just want to complain here and here only in gw2 , but no other mmo because we want to justify this ONE specific thing.

These arguments are so weak, this would make my debating instructor chortle. My god.

When you say, "these arguments," are you referring to your own? I mean, you have not demonstrated that anyone here who dislikes the current RNG approach to acquiring the new mount skins plays any of those other games you mention. Nor have you demonstrated that they do not make similar complaints about those other games.

[Torolan.5816]

AS a former Magic player, Lilyanna is right with the idea that magic works on the same system. But how does that justify using the system 20 years later again? It was wrong then, it is wrong today. Should we also reintroduce the right of teachers to beat up kids again because it was allowed 40 years ago?

[Kichwas.7152]

I'd say the cash shop here and in ESO and Wildstar are on par with each other: the game influencing items are things like experience boosters.

GW2 however, also lets you buy level ups. I don't recall seeing that in either ESO or Wildstar (but it has been months since I last checked into Wildstar).

Neverwinter is the only example of an MMO I play that has a more direct influence though. In Neverwinter you can buy 'zone completion' packs that let you skip portions of the content. This lets you get closer to endgame.

FFXIV used to be on par with ESO and Wildstar, but it now also offers the ability to buy story completion - because if you don't, you have to play the ENTIRE story through for each expansion, before you can even start the next expansion. Including all of the patches. Per character.

Imagine if in GW2, you could not even enter the HoT zones until you completed your personal story and both season 1 and season 2 of Living Story - that is FFXIV before they added this.

FFXIV also added the ability to buy a level up.

ESO still lacks the level up (I think, if I'm wrong let me know).

So...

I think I have to say ESO, and 'maybe' Wildstar, has the 'best cash shop' from the point of view of avoiding 'Pay To Win'.

• I'd have to re-install Wildstar to see what you can buy there at present.

[Myhr.9108]

@ OP : there are several main types of complains. On the basis, I agree with you that :

• you can buy Gem with Gold, which is a very consumer-friendly system that many seem to forget or undervalue.
• unlike the basic Glider, basic mounts skins are awesome, beautiful, and have incredible animations, hence shiny skins are really some luxury.

That being said, my argument is that for cosmetics, you should be able to choose what you aim for. I want a skin, I want to support A-Net through 1 skin, I will do it. I think 2000 gems is waaaaaay too much for a single skin, no matter how awesome it is, but that's fine, the market will decide if the price is correct or not, it's simple, if you're not satisfied, you don't buy, problem solved (and arguing about the price is fair consumer practice).

The problem with the 30 skins package, is that I have no real idea what is my goal, since it's random. Do I aim for 400 gems? 1200, 3000, 5000, more? One way to look at it would be to buy all the adoption tickets on the long run, little by little. Still feels really bad to have the chance to get something you won't use. How do you evaluate the price of a skin? How do you evaluate how much you deem it worth? You can't have a clear idea, since it's random, and this is where it's not consumer-friendly.

[Kichwas.7152]

Now... from the point of view of the content you can buy...

GW2's cash shop is not to my liking... I want to buy housing and fashion and minipets. And I want the fashion to let me have varied styles.

GW2 doesn't let me buy anything for my house because it doesn't let me get a house.GW2 fashion all has butt-flaps. Almost no variety. The only non-butt-flap item for heavy armor is no longer sold. For light there is one item, period. For medium, I think 3 that are female only, 2 if you're not human, 0 if your character is male.

FFXIV wins for fashion because the in-game items offer so much variety. The actual cash shop is severely limited and mostly 'character bound on acquire'.

Wildstar is another butt-flaps game, but at least has bikinis in the cash shop for the female characters... (not sure what the males get)ESO... has no real transmog system. A semi-transmute system came in recently: change the bonuses of an item you have. But not the look. So imagine you get a viper set, and could change it to berserker of the same quality. They sell outfits in their cash shop... and these are... OK but not that good.

I think WoW actually has the best fashion - because there is so much variety. But not in the cash shop - so it's not "in the game" for this contest...

I'd have to call fashion for Wildstar... only because while it sucks as much as GW2... there are a tiny handful of bikinis available that a clever person can use to avoid buttflaps, and there are also plenty of PANTS... with no buttflaps... just the ability wear normal pants and shirts that are designed into the genre of that game...

As for housing... Wildstar wins this one by such a large degree that every other game looks sad. But FFXIV and ESO both also have good options.

And then mounts... Wildstar wins again. FFXIV and ESO do well... GW2 just went random - it is now arguably worse than having none...

On minipets... this one FFXIV wins... because thee are so many and they are so easy to get your hands on. But GW2 comes close. ESO kind of sucks here... they're all too "in genre" and none of them are cute or humorous... Wildstar is frustrating here - amazingly good pets, that are often notoriously difficult to get. I think it has the best choices, but they're just pricey or rare... That said, some amazing ones are easy to get... just not the mass collection of easy to get ones I find in FFXIV and GW2.