Catalyst Needs a Trait-line Dedicated to Combos instead of Aura

[Bunny.9834]

 

First to address the “identity crisis” of the Catalyst, we must look at the previous E-specs and what they specialize in. 

 

The Tempest focuses on supporting allies with Auras. 

The Weaver focuses on DPS with Dual Attacks and Elemental Swapping. 

 

The Catalyst brought the ease of creating “Fields” using spheres. However, we don’t really have a dedicated trait-line that benefits on creating “Combos”.

My suggestion is to rework the top trait line of the Catalyst into focusing on Combos.

 

Catalyst: Rework Aura Traits into Combo Finisher Traits 
 

Hardened Auras – Solid Fusion 

-       When you perform a combo, you gain Solid Fusion (5 seconds). Solid Fusion grants you 10% damage reduction. Gain energy when you are hit (ICD 1 second). 

 

Empowering Auras – Empowering Sequence 

-       Performing combo finishers now grants you Empowering Sequence (10 seconds). Empowering Sequence grants 2% outgoing damage increase per stack. Max stack 5. 

 

Staunch Auras – Stable Synthesis

-       When you perform a combo, you and allies gain stability (3s), gain barrier, and lose 1 condition. ICD (2 seconds).  

 

As an additional request.... please add Earth Field to the game: 
 

Finisher: Whirl = Bleeding Bolts

Finisher: Leap = Magnetic Aura

Finisher: Blast = Protection

Finisher: Projectile = Bleeding 

 

 

 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Stable Synthesis would be juicy in Wvw. 

That would actually make me play cata.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by DanAlcedo.3281

[The Boz.2038]

We need fewer fields, not more. Also, fewer finishers (whirl is redundant).

Combos and auras are both PvP-centric design from way back when in 2010. They scale well in "I have 12-20k HP, and so does he, so this stack of might and stun on getting hit, coupled with extra burning right here when needed is valuable", but they have no role in  a "my health is irrelevant, any hit will kill me, the target has two million HP, I need solid DPS improvements" environment.
Cata gets significant buffs for combos and auras, so it's kind of a move in the right direction "specifically", but not *systematically*.

[grx.8714]

Maybe they thought about this, and thought it was too much.

Creating a combo is way easier than getting an aura that's why.

You could simply drop water sphere and dodge with earth using arcane and you get already the area healing combo plus all the traits benefits you are saying.

Combo fields happen so easy and often.

Maybe people will start crying how broken that is.

[Puck.3697]

I'd disagree.

given how Static Combo fields are etc etc.. i think it'd damage the flexibility of the specc centering it around such a mechanic. I think catalyst with its current traitline is actually shaping up to be really good, they just need to take Elemental Empowerement and roll its damage into the specc without the stacking effect and it'd be perfect IMHO.

[Rising Blade.9206]

too many unique buffs. I'd rather they just rework hammer and giving it more leap finishers than to what we have at the moment then maybe the current aura focused traitline would work

[Bunny.9834]

2 hours ago, Rising Blade.9206 said:

too many unique buffs. I'd rather they just rework hammer and giving it more leap finishers than to what we have at the moment then maybe the current aura focused traitline would work

Those unique buffs already exist in the Catalyst. 

[Dadnir.5038]

The devs want elementalist and it's specializations to switch attunment regularly, what prevent someone to just camp an attunment and spam a projectile finisher AA with your suggestion?

I'm not satisfied with the Aura focus the devs push on the elementalist but your suggestion is far from promoting an healthy elementalist gameplay. At least the focus on aura push the player into an elemental cycle in order to look for blast finishers, leap finisher and skills that grant him aura.

[Syronus.7605]

Remember when Persisting Flames used to grant fury to blasted fire fields?  Wouldn't it be nice to have a GM trait based around that but for elemental fields.  So fire fields would grant fury in addition to might, lightning fields could be then blasted for a few seconds of quickness, water fields could grant resolution or regeneration and poison fields would be protection or stability.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Syronus.7605

[Chopps.7461]

The ideas are interesting for a new identity, but looks like it considers only hammer as weapon. Just imagine staff earth #1 generating easily stab, barrier and cleanse condition. As Dadnir said, gain stacks with auras isnt that bad despite not being a new identity for elementalist.

Staunch Auras/Stable Synthesis seems pretty solid for a "stable presence", i would just remove the condition cleanse, other weapons can trait fire and transmute auras for a good amount of cleanse.

[Xaylin.1860]

19 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The devs want elementalist and it's specializations to switch attunment regularly, what prevent someone to just camp an attunment and spam a projectile finisher AA with your suggestion?

I'm not satisfied with the Aura focus the devs push on the elementalist but your suggestion is far from promoting an healthy elementalist gameplay. At least the focus on aura push the player into an elemental cycle in order to look for blast finishers, leap finisher and skills that grant him aura.

You are right regarding projectile finishers. But focussing on Leaps and Blasts would work. In the end, the current set up isn't too different than OPs (too strong) suggestion due to the GM minor. Just with Aura as vehicle inbetween. 

 

I personally disliked the trait set up the moment it was revealed because of the many unique effects and the Aura overlap with Tempest. First, I'd like Catalyst to only have one unique effect instead of three. Second, I'd like to see traits that boost the effects of Leap finishers (e.g. self-heal or gain Protection or Barrier or Stability...) and Blast finishers (e.g. as Syronus mentioned, additional boons to nearby allies). Third, probably controversial, I really want Energy to matter more. The gauge is too small and there are too few traits associated with it. I want it to feel more like Adrenaline. I'd like a set up where, for example, all Adept traits somehow related to energy management based on a preferred playstyle. E.g. energy on swap, energy on combo and maybe -x% energy cost for Sphere usage for a LI build.

 

Not directly related but I dislike how Quickness is stuck in Air because this caters yet another FA set up. Not 100% sure how to fix that because ANet probably wants it to stay tied to the Sphere. Unless you just put it onto every attunement via trait. 

[crosknight.3041]

would personally like a trait that increased potency of combo finishers., for example fire blast would give out 6 might instead of the usual 3. as for leap finishers that tend to just be auras, auras now detonate when they expire.

[Bleikopf.2491]

On 4/5/2022 at 6:39 AM, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

First to address the “identity crisis” of the Catalyst, we must look at the previous E-specs and what they specialize in. 

The identity crisis of Catalyst is purely mechanical. As in, what does it do differently from Core. Therein, the identity crisis exists because Catalyst is split between Hammer 3, Jade Sphere and Energy and Elemental Empowerment. (E: and of course combos.)
Considering what 'role' it can take in a group it has a very firm basis in Power DPS or Quickness and isn't much lacking in identity.

On 4/5/2022 at 6:39 AM, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

The Weaver focuses on DPS with Dual Attacks and Elemental Swapping. 

Correct. The Weaver has its identity in Dual attunements. That's what it does differently.
As for the role, it's DPS with either Power, Condi or Hybrid.

On 4/5/2022 at 6:39 AM, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

The Tempest focuses on supporting allies with Auras. 

Here's the part where I disagree.
Tempest focuses on Overloads and Shouts. That's their identity. In fact, Tempest's identity is lacking. It's overusing Auras to compensate for their weak identity. Shouts got a one single trait in the entire traitline and it's not even good. Overloads are ok.
 Overloads and Shouts: That's what they do differently from Core.
Auras isn't different from Core, and neither is Aurashare. And Tempest isn't purely a support spec.
Tempest has roles in Power as well as Condi DPS. Currently moreso than any Support role, but technically it also has access to Support in healing and boonshare.
It uses Auras to support. This is my point of view and the hill I'll die on. Using Auras makes the Tempest more flexible and inherently more interesting. But you could technically just remove all the Auras from the Tempest's kit, rewrite some traits and it'll function the same, just less flexible because there won't be any interaction with Aura traits.
More on that later.

On 4/5/2022 at 6:39 AM, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

The Catalyst brought the ease of creating “Fields” using spheres. However, we don’t really have a dedicated trait-line that benefits on creating “Combos”.

My suggestion is to rework the top trait line of the Catalyst into focusing on Combos.

That's the thing: The top trait line is already working for Combos. Because everytime you combo, you get an Aura. Therefore, those are all indirectly combo traits.
Furthermore, you'll have noticed that the ICD to receive an Aura from comboing is 10 seconds per attunement. That's because it's really easy to chain combos with the Elementalist. This won't change just because we exclude Auras from the top traits, the ICD will stay pretty much the same. Except we now can't use Auras with them.

The fact Catalyst uses Auras is a feature, not a bug. Sure, we can rewrite everything to not use Auras, but that'll leave us less flexible and honestly it's pretty boring. Here is where I come back to the Tempest:
Imagine Tempest didn't use Auras. Of course, the effect of the Auras themselves would be lost, which is especially sad for Shocking Aura and Magnetic Aura, but when we share Auras we're usually interested in the traits we proc.
We could rewrite Tempest traits to not use Auras and just replace them with "whenever you use a Shout or complete an Overload". Elemental Bastion now reads as "Heal allies whenever you use a Shout or complete an Overload." Invigorating Torrents is now "Whenever you use a Shout or complete an Overload, grant allies regeneration and vigor." Surely, it's not 100% the same but it's close enough to work as a support spec if you want it to.
Now, obviously I'm missing the condi clear from fire/protection from earth/fury from air which you also apply when you give out an Aura.
Pick one.
Tempest (usually) runs Water + one of the above trait lines, so it can always adapt to what's needed. That's because it's using Auras. Using Auras in Elite specs makes the spec more flexible. It allows synergy between the different traitlines. Removing Auras from an Elite spec therefore makes it less flexible and static.
This is where Catalyst comes in. If you're removing Auras from it, it's just going to hurt the spec.

So please, stop trying to take Auras from Catalyst. It's not misplaced. Tempest does not have a monopoly on Auras.
If you want more focus on Combos in Catalyst, embrace the Aura traits. Lower the ICD of Elemental Epitome to 8-9 seconds. Merge Hardened Auras and Empowering Auras into one. Change Staunch Auras to grant Stability when you grant an Aura.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Bleikopf.2491

[Bunny.9834]

2 hours ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

The identity crisis of Catalyst is purely mechanical. As in, what does it do differently from Core. Therein, the identity crisis exists because Catalyst is split between Hammer 3, Jade Sphere and Energy and Elemental Empowerment. (E: and of course combos.)
Considering what 'role' it can take in a group it has a very firm basis in Power DPS or Quickness and isn't much lacking in identity.

Correct. The Weaver has its identity in Dual attunements. That's what it does differently.
As for the role, it's DPS with either Power, Condi or Hybrid.

Here's the part where I disagree.
Tempest focuses on Overloads and Shouts. That's their identity. In fact, Tempest's identity is lacking. It's overusing Auras to compensate for their weak identity. Shouts got a one single trait in the entire traitline and it's not even good. Overloads are ok.
 Overloads and Shouts: That's what they do differently from Core.
Auras isn't different from Core, and neither is Aurashare. And Tempest isn't purely a support spec.
Tempest has roles in Power as well as Condi DPS. Currently moreso than any Support role, but technically it also has access to Support in healing and boonshare.
It uses Auras to support. This is my point of view and the hill I'll die on. Using Auras makes the Tempest more flexible and inherently more interesting. But you could technically just remove all the Auras from the Tempest's kit, rewrite some traits and it'll function the same, just less flexible because there won't be any interaction with Aura traits.

So please, stop trying to take Auras from Catalyst. It's not misplaced. Tempest does not have a monopoly on Auras.
If you want more focus on Combos in Catalyst, embrace the Aura traits. Lower the ICD of Elemental Epitome to 8-9 seconds. Merge Hardened Auras and Empowering Auras into one. Change Staunch Auras to grant Stability when you grant an Aura.

You quoted the wiki that Tempest uses Shouts and Overload to "support" allies... yeah they do and with what? ... Auras.

Auras is THE Tempest Identity.  The whole bottom trait line is dedicated to that. Sure you can argue that it has other role like DPS... but so is the rest of the classes in this game. But thematically and mechanically speaking, certain E-Specs focuses on certain things.  

Catalyst has the opportunity to literally offer a unique trait line that focuses on combo fields, which the elementalist lacks. 

And nobody's taking the Auras away from the Catalyst. Elemental Epitome a minor grandmaster gives you your Auras. 

[SeTect.5918]

You know what would be cool imo?

If catalyst is combo based and gets increased effectiveness on these combos. 

Similar to a trait that Scrapper had in past.

"Improves the effectiveness of all lightning field finishers by 50%."

"System Shocker" 2019-2020.

 

I would love it if Catalyst would be combo based with traits like that. Or additional effects on combos or something. 

@DragonSlayer.1087is right that Auras are Tempests thing. Even 3 of 4 utility skills give auras on it. Aswell the elite skill. Not to mention the Warhorn skills or traits.

Tempest focuses on support due to auras.

Weaver focuses on dual attacks and attunement swapping.

Catalyst focuses on...auras, ccs, immobs, dodges, combos, spheres, attunement swapping.....

It is really a Mix of everything and most doesn't even fit well because catalyst hammer has no access to auras at all and also low ccs. 

Catalyst should really be purely combo and maybe bit cc instead of auras + tons other stuff. 

Thats why it lacks in identity, because it feels like a Mix of 10000 e specs, while other ele e specs do not feel like this because they focus on 2 things:

Weaver: dual attacks + attunement swap.

Tempest: Overloads + auras. 

Catalyst could/should be: Spheres + combos. 

 

The spheres also are granting the perfect environment for a combo based e spec already because of their combo fields. 

It also would have a better synergy with traits like "Persisting Flames" then. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Bleikopf.2491]

2 hours ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

And nobody's taking the Auras away from the Catalyst. Elemental Epitome a minor grandmaster gives you your Auras. 

In that case I misunderstood you, because you were talking about reworking Catas aura traits.

[Bast.7253]

I think just separating auras from the empowerment buff in general would have been a better way to distinguish it from the other specs. 

I like the suggestions though. I'd still like all combos granting auras but I believe that wouldn't change with these. 

It's kind of sad to see how many good suggestions there are on these forums alone and it feels like we've had so little done to Catalyst since beta, most of which affected ONE weapon.

I mean sure the recent changes helped a bit and even before the changes it had viability but only because of stacking enhancements on traits and access to a few more boons if traited.... 

I did manage to solo the 3 chaps in Zen Daijun on celestial hammer/boon build but I'm fairly certain it would have been doable on sword weaver as well just because barrier alone makes a huge difference and that sustain on Catalyst is entirely reliant on weapon cooldowns (again mostly hammer) and skill cooldowns. 

 

[SeTect.5918]

3 hours ago, Bast.7253 said:

I think just separating auras from the empowerment buff in general would have been a better way to distinguish it from the other specs. 

I like the suggestions though. I'd still like all combos granting auras but I believe that wouldn't change with these. 

It's kind of sad to see how many good suggestions there are on these forums alone and it feels like we've had so little done to Catalyst since beta, most of which affected ONE weapon.

I mean sure the recent changes helped a bit and even before the changes it had viability but only because of stacking enhancements on traits and access to a few more boons if traited.... 

I did manage to solo the 3 chaps in Zen Daijun on celestial hammer/boon build but I'm fairly certain it would have been doable on sword weaver as well just because barrier alone makes a huge difference and that sustain on Catalyst is entirely reliant on weapon cooldowns (again mostly hammer) and skill cooldowns. 

 

Most of the sustain of solo catalyst comes from elite ice Elemental tbh. The build gets carried by that. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by SeTect.5918