Celestial Harbinger

[Salt Mode.3780]

sPvP being the point of balance is hilarious, it is the game mode dying the quickest with no viewership whatsoever. 

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

sPvP being the point of balance is hilarious, it is the game mode dying the quickest with no viewership whatsoever. 

so you want to kill WvW next?

[Bale.3851]

WvW is group content most of the time like 20 v 20 or full out 50v50 +. Only a small part of this is small scale / roaming. Not to mention 1v1ing. So before demanding a "fix" to certain gear think about the impact for the rest of wvw players. Banning gear is always just a band aid fix for classes scaling to well with both stats (power and condi) while getting reasonable sustain with low effort.

 

tl;dr Balancing WvW with 1v1 in mind is a bad idea. Look how its going in spvp with the population dropping like crazy,

[Lucentfir.7430]

It's almost as if the general blanket nerfs from years ago for Spvp (balanced around significantly limited pool of amulets) translates very poorly to wvw, and significantly reduced the investment you get for going something more glassy like Berserkers and Grievers. Who would've thought?  Back then Celestial builds were good all rounder builds but lacked in the damage compartment compared to their glassier counterpart, and had to offset this lack in offensive stats with might stacking if they wanted adequate pressure. Now a days you get the best of both worlds with celestial if you want something durable with good damage, versatile.  Up there with Trailblaizers tbh.  All it would take is for damage in general to make those investments worth while again over celestial. 

 

27 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

tl;dr Balancing WvW with 1v1 in mind is a bad idea. Look how its going in spvp with the population dropping like crazy,

Spvp isn't even balanced with 1v1 in mind, it's 5v5. Spvp also had the perfect storm of bad changes, full of  exploiters/system gamers/wintraders at the top end, and Anet just ripping out everything that made the game mode fun to play in the first place, the game mode is just straight up unappetizing for most players competative or not, only reward chasers that'll stomach it until they get their rewards and then they leave and never come back, at least over here on NA.  That's a big reason why Spvp's population is in the ground. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Lucentfir.7430

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, Bale.3851 said:

tl;dr Balancing WvW with 1v1 in mind is a bad idea. Look how its going in spvp with the population dropping like crazy,

Your boonball is not even remotely affected by the discussion here, so what is the problem?

No1 is asking for support fb to be deleted cause it makes 0 sense 1v1, or similar.

Or what, only balancing requests for mid to large scale fights should be considered? You can say "hey the studio can barely balance large scale in wvw, they have no time to fix the new specs for small scale, sorry"... Instead of dismissing the entire roamer population as not part of the mode.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Salt Mode.3780]

7 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

so you want to kill WvW next?

Why do people misquote without understanding the full context of the post I really dont understand.

[Bale.3851]

15 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Spvp isn't even balanced with 1v1 in mind, it's 5v5. Spvp also had the perfect storm of bad changes, full of  exploiters/system gamers/wintraders at the top end, and Anet just ripping out everything that made the game mode fun to play in the first place, the game mode is just straight up unappetizing for most players competative or not, only reward chasers that'll stomach it until they get their rewards and then they leave and never come back, at least over here on NA.  That's a big reason why Spvp's population is in the ground. 

 

This is why i dont want half baked band aid fixes. They ruin the game for more people than they acutally help. I mean buff sure buff berserk to the same stats as cele but i promise you the whole forum will be full of whine threats about thief 1 shotting them from stealth or warriors busting them in 1 second. All we gain from these half baked solutions is to turn the wheel anet calls balancing 1 step further.

 

14 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Or what, only balancing requests for mid to large scale fights should be considered? You can say "hey the studio can barely balance large scale in wvw, they have no time to fix the new specs for small scale, sorry"... Instead of dismissing the entire roamer population as not part of the mode.

 

No i advocated for acutal thinking and testing before we "fix" somehting. What is the possible outcome from this "fix"? Does this really solve the problem or is it maybe that harbingers/druids/scrappers/mesmers or what not scale to much with cele cause their weapon skills do both types of damage (power and condi).

 

[Faccina.5091]

theres one rn in eb that is doing shitton dmg with crits + spamming burn and tormet + fullbuff + perma 30 carapace

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

1 hour ago, Faccina.5091 said:

theres one rn in eb that is doing shitton dmg with crits + spamming burn and tormet + fullbuff + perma 30 carapace

Cele or full viper Harbringer only becomes problem when there is someone else is keeping you busy and they get to free cast on you. Just like everything else if they are good.

1 on 1, they r not too bad. Alot of build can shut them down completely.

[Lucentfir.7430]

9 hours ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

This is why i dont want half baked band aid fixes. They ruin the game for more people than they acutally help. I mean buff sure buff berserk to the same stats as cele but i promise you the whole forum will be full of whine threats about thief 1 shotting them from stealth or warriors busting them in 1 second. All we gain from these half baked solutions is to turn the wheel anet calls balancing 1 step further.

 

 I'm not even advocating buffing berserker stats that's not it,  it's mainly about returning damage to specs/classes (not all specs need it) had that got clobbered by a bunch of bad  general damage nerf blanket changes, that and it reduced how they scale with stat investment. Changes made for Spvp in mind, you know the place without Clerics, Minstrels, Trailblaizers, Celestial, etc and balanced around that. Anet only goes with half baked solutions though so idk what to tell you other than, too much work and effort for them to do right. 🤷‍♂️

[Mik.3401]

So to my understanding most cele builds are broken since they can maintain 25 stacks of might. That gives them decent defencesnacross the board plus more raw dps than power builds and similar condi dps to condi builds.

Considering this problem, why not revert the changes and remove expertise and ferocity from it? Or maybe remove power and condition damage instead. I think that would balance things more.

[patton the great.7126]

1v1 Cele virtuoso shuts down Cele Harb anyway.  Virtuoso is currently more broken then mirage ever was, yet mirage still only get 1 dodge....go figure

[Morena.9312]

They should remove Cele gear from WvWvW.

[Bale.3851]

5 hours ago, Carmela.8756 said:

They should remove Cele gear from WvWvW.

 

And after this some people whine about trailblazer and want it removed. And so on and so on. I agree that some professions scale to well with cele. But why ban the whole gear? Tune the skills to be either power dmg or condi. But dont straigth out delete things.

Again look what it did to SPVP. Nothing. There will be the next thing thats op and people whine and want it gone. Just bringt cele gear in line with other gear. Problem solved.

[Morena.9312]

5 hours ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

And after this some people whine about trailblazer and want it removed. And so on and so on. I agree that some professions scale to well with cele. But why ban the whole gear? Tune the skills to be either power dmg or condi. But dont straigth out delete things.

Again look what it did to SPVP. Nothing. There will be the next thing thats op and people whine and want it gone. Just bringt cele gear in line with other gear. Problem solved.

 The problem is you can't balance Cele good. Either it is OP or straight bad. So deleting it would be the best & easiest solution. There should not be a pony for all things in the game. Such a set is impossible to balance. Better a stupid set gone than classes nerfed on the traits & skills.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Carmela.8756

[Odin.6487]

ITT

90 percent of the players agreeing celestial gear is the problem

9.9 percent disagreeing

1 person arguing with exzen 

LOL

[Odin.6487]

6 hours ago, Carmela.8756 said:

 The problem is you can't balance Cele good. Either it is OP or straight bad. So deleting it would be the best & easiest solution. There should not be a pony for all things in the game. Such a set is impossible to balance. Better a stupid set gone than classes nerfed on the traits & skills.

Thats really what it comes down to. Most of us have seen a state of wvw where celestial was garbage and used by only weaver. 

Rn though its used by just about every class and if you arent roaming with it youre at a severe disadvantage to someone who is. 

I think maybe there could be a gear stat that is hybrid, but the concentration, expertise, toughness, and vitality just bring it over the top. 

 

[KrHome.1920]

12 hours ago, Carmela.8756 said:

 The problem is you can't balance Cele good. Either it is OP or straight bad. So deleting it would be the best & easiest solution. There should not be a pony for all things in the game. Such a set is impossible to balance. Better a stupid set gone than classes nerfed on the traits & skills.

Current PvE gear favors certain classes in WvW. Where is the paladin attribute combination, which would be optimal for power necros? Other classes just take marauder and use blocks, while necros need toughness. WvW is far from balanced in gear options. Removing everything but cele would end up in better balacing than the other way around.

[Mik.3401]

 

On 4/26/2022 at 3:10 PM, Mik.3401 said:

So to my understanding most cele builds are broken since they can maintain 25 stacks of might. That gives them decent defencesnacross the board plus more raw dps than power builds and similar condi dps to condi builds.

Considering this problem, why not revert the changes and remove expertise and ferocity from it? Or maybe remove power and condition damage instead. I think that would balance things more.

I can see this post scored quite a mixed reactions rather confused. Does anyone know why it may be polarising?  We used to have no expertise and concentration on cele and it was just fine.

mot maybe didn’t allow multiple perma boons like it does now, but at least it gave some room for more interactive combat

Edited April 29, 2022 by Mik.3401

[AlCapwnd.7834]

As a HARB roamer in cele stats. I will tell you how to beat us.

 

IMOBE, and stun. IMOBE is the stupidest thing in WVW and is extremely OP and it cant be cleansed. If you have Warhorn 4 on CD you can transfer it, only if it isnt evaded.

 

See you on the battlefield! 😃

[gitssac.7302]

On 4/30/2022 at 5:04 AM, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

As a HARB roamer in cele stats. I will tell you how to beat us.

 

IMOBE, and stun. IMOBE is the stupidest thing in WVW and is extremely OP and it cant be cleansed. If you have Warhorn 4 on CD you can transfer it, only if it isnt evaded.

 

See you on the battlefield! 😃

 

As a necro player for 8+ years, I can tell you the best class to cleanse and transfer any immobs from is Necro. The amount of transfers, pulsing cleanses, weapon skill condi transfers and traits that consume condis in one form or another makes most immobs kinda useless. Even my stun vines druid can't keep a Cele Harb in place long enough to not get 17 torments and a 3 sec lift off instantly.

 

Now stab is a different story. You are definitely in trouble if you don't have a way to break stuns, but luckily for Harb the usual build is wurm minion for the teleport and stun break, and you get access to some very useful stun breaks on your utilities too. I've seen LB Boonbeasts and deadeyes do well at killing Cele Harb, but that's about it.

[gitssac.7302]

On another note, Roaming is dead now that Cele Harbs and Virtuosos are a thing. Basically can't do anything about them in a 1v1 situation. At the moment the current match up for my server is BG and JQ. Roaming is camp flippers that port, or Cele Harbs basically running unchallenged. Feelsbadman.

[lotus.5672]

On 4/29/2022 at 6:07 AM, KrHome.1920 said:

Current PvE gear favors certain classes in WvW. Where is the paladin attribute combination, which would be optimal for power necros? Other classes just take marauder and use blocks, while necros need toughness. WvW is far from balanced in gear options. Removing everything but cele would end up in better balacing than the other way around.

Necro has 2 hp bars, marauder is straight up better than a toughness stat for reaper

[Burial.1958]

12 hours ago, gitssac.7302 said:

On another note, Roaming is dead now that Cele Harbs and Virtuosos are a thing. Basically can't do anything about them in a 1v1 situation. At the moment the current match up for my server is BG and JQ. Roaming is camp flippers that port, or Cele Harbs basically running unchallenged. Feelsbadman.

Yes, this spec is really very very strong in 1vs1. Hope Anet will fix this as soon as possible. Makes currently with all this Condi spam in roaming not so fun.

[Kate.3679]

13 hours ago, gitssac.7302 said:

On another note, Roaming is dead now that Cele Harbs and Virtuosos are a thing. Basically can't do anything about them in a 1v1 situation. At the moment the current match up for my server is BG and JQ. Roaming is camp flippers that port, or Cele Harbs basically running unchallenged. Feelsbadman.

cele harb can't win against deadeye you just get kited all day with SA

 

not sure about virtuoso haven't ran into many of those