The Veteran / Youtuber challenge

[Sevetamryn.2974]

1 hour ago, Stx.4857 said:

This challenge you propose isn't really a challenge...   especially since you say 80 boost can be used.  

 

It is extremely easy to get a raid ready power dps setup with very low gold and karma costs.

Yes, the gear from lvl80 ticket changes a lot! However, i included it, as i think this i probably common for player who don't play the free edition. It is included in many game packs you can buy. And i meanwhile found a YT channel that has a lot of videos especially regarding celestial build.

 

About a cheap raid ready setup, pleas be more elaborative 🙂 i'm interested to hear more about this!

Edited April 26, 2022 by Sevetamryn.2974

[Sevetamryn.2974]

3 minutes ago, Zaraki.5784 said:

Ok but what do we get for that? A challenge without any reward is a big no for me.

Personal experience, having fun, a different view to the world, maybe learn something? That's all i can offer.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Sevetamryn.2974

[Danikat.8537]

24 minutes ago, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

At first, not to forget, i enjoy the game a lot, can live with my pace and have much too many hours per day on the clock ... And too many things on the ToDo list for the fun aspect i see there (not the grind for reward). I have the celestial gear from lvl 80 ticket and i'm fine with it for now (i used the ticket for my primary after manually going to 80, just for the gear). And i enjoyed the process of leveling and the story. My new player story at lvl 40, trying to find a group for 1st available dungeon in story mode, would be worth a post on its own ... 😉 

"I think there's a big disconnect between the rest of your post and this. Why would a new player who hasn't yet learned the basics and is playing solo worry about getting gear for raids or high level Fractals?"

Yeah, this post had some reasonable part combined with some provocation, i admit. The point is, and this is a IMHO a common, but not general (veteran / youtuber ) tonality. 

I wrote:

"Why this challenge - because i see too often "You can easily get this by doing XYZ", "Just get a full set of ABC gear plus runes and sigil" etc. - And i know, this is usually not said in a offensive way - like the usual "just get good" - However, we all, everywhere in life, adapt to the level of experience we have and take this a the "normal"."

And yes, it is not uncommon to hear / read things like - "No problem, just do high level fractals" ... "Just get exotic viper with krait / torment runes"

And no, for an relatively new player in GW2, those things are sometimes just not possible (for probably a long time) or at least everything else than EASY to reach. Please keep also in mind, for a new player, finding Information and judging if an advice is appropriate or not are two different things. This game is super complex in so many aspects. Even more for a new player, who is in short time confronted with a 10 year development cycle of features and and currencies. And the game itself does a bad job in explaining itself. In some cases, there may also be an easy and cheap way to get cool gear, the new player does just not know (for now). I got my 1st piece of ascended gear by coincidence from a not this hard achievement in the dessert, just play playing the game for the fun and exploration that is in it.

That makes more sense, but guides for new players which don't go into enough detail is a different problem and one that won't be solved by 'challenging' random players (or even the ones making the guides) to replay the early parts of the game. Creating good instructions which strike the right balance between too little and too much information is a whole skill set in it's own right, and not one everyone will have even if they want to do it.

A lot of it comes down to that difference in knowledge and experience which you mentioned but kind of skipped over in your first post. (And there's even training on that, 'the four stages of competency' and how to train and manage people at each stage.) They may have forgotten just how much detail new players need to follow their instructions, or it may be that new players are not their expected audience and they assumed everyone following the guide would already know the options.

To use your example: equipment with vipers stats is not difficult to get, and there are several options for how to get it, but that on it's own complicates things: do you list all the options and risk overwhelming players? (And going completely off topic if the guide is not about how to make that build.) Give a few examples and risk them thinking that's the only options and getting discouraged if it's not something they want to do? Link to another source of information and hope they follow it?

Krait and Torment runes have the opposite problem: they can be purchased from the Trading Post or crafted and the cost is about the same either way so someone making a guide may think it's not necessary to explain how to get them. (Again this is why creating good instructions is a skill - remembering things like this.) They might remember that a new player will need advice on how to make enough gold to afford a full set, but that would definitely be a seperate guide from how to make and play a specific build.

I think the best way to counter that problem is to give feedback. If someone has made a guide you want to follow but hasn't included enough detail that you can do that ask them (or other people) about the bits you're not sure about.

For example if you want it I, or many other people on this forum, can write a guide to all the different ways to get vipers gear, and maybe recommend which ones are likely to be easiest for different types of players, but that would be a long post.

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Nice find but that was in 2016 😯

You don't seem to understand the game you're playing.  If anything it's easier to do this "challenge" than it was then.  You're talking about maybe farming gold.  I say maybe because you'd technically be raid ready in exotics.

[xenon.3264]

if u think i will move a step without aoutloot and risk to lose a precursor you are mad.

 

 

[Xerxez.7361]

4 hours ago, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

Yes, the gear from lvl80 ticket changes a lot! However, i included it, as i think this i probably common for player who don't play the free edition. It is included in many game packs you can buy. And i meanwhile found a YT channel that has a lot of videos especially regarding celestial build.

 

About a cheap raid ready setup, pleas be more elaborative 🙂 i'm interested to hear more about this!

 

Raids will ask for a minimum of copying a Snowcrows build and using using Exotic+ Gear. Phys builds tend to have the cheapest Exotic equipment on Trading Post.

[Dante.1508]

9 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

There is nothing done in these videos that couldn't be done now.
If fact this was done before mounts. Before the buff the celestial stats. Before everyone who boosted was given a set of celestial gear. Before the PoF power creep.
Before a lot of QoL changes to the game that would make the OP's challenge even easier.

But more to the point:
You said no youtuber would do it.
The link proves you wrong.

Wooden potatoes is a cut above the rest i agree 🤔

[Sevetamryn.2974]

On 4/26/2022 at 8:41 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

For example if you want it I, or many other people on this forum, can write a guide to all the different ways to get vipers gear, and maybe recommend which ones are likely to be easiest for different types of players, but that would be a long post.

 

What would from my point of view be much more interesting, if it makes sense at all - and i think it does, alternatives to the usual XY-gaer+Z-runes, best in slot min-max meta build. - I think i don't need the perfect meta build. But i'm sure, there are viable builds, just short to perfect meta, but still good enough for a fraction of the price.

However, even at a fraction of the price i have neither the resources nor the time or skill to make a good decision / recommendation by testing lot different combinations. - Imagine alone the number of extractors needed to check out different, much cheaper, but probably good other runes. Any experience from this side would be very welcome. 

Two things i found and really appreciate on YouTube that helped me, and we need more of this:

• Mind over Meta - big focus well performing celestial build
• Mukluck and the persons supporting this content - Low intensity builds - highly complex rotations are out of dexterity for many players - because new or also because restricted in dexterity at all.

Maybe there is more in this direction available and i just do not know it for now.

I think, those people understood what the missing information is. We don't need the 100's time "perfect meta build 1% better then the last one if you precast ... bla bla ... rotaion ..." I think, if i can do ... hmm, 85% ... of whata "meta pro" does, reasonable consistently ... I'm probably fine.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Sevetamryn.2974
formating

[yoni.7015]

22 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

I still manually loot everything to this day because i cannot find the masteries to finish the legendary mastery and the pact mastery.

 

There are more than enough mastery points. Open your hero panel to find them. It’s not difficult. 

[Dante.1508]

11 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

There are more than enough mastery points. Open your hero panel to find them. It’s not difficult. 

The difficult part is getting them.

[Sevetamryn.2974]

10 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

The difficult part is getting them.

 

Yes, same situation for me, some of the left overs are for me incredible hard to impossible (i.e. the "all achievements from story mission X) ... I need 9 more to "finish" Central Tyria. This is already way beyond what you can get from just insights. I got 3 from tier 1 fractals, not really hard to get. Some from just doing open world events. What I have open and consider doable:

- Map completion central Tyria (want to do either)

- Dive Master (in combination with map completion)

- do each dungeon at least once (want to do either)

- 3 silvervaste  Legendary Mordrem mastery points (2 I have already)

- Lion's Arch Exterminator - also gives a nice reward

- silvervaste go for gold - need some time to do but possible i think

- Tequatl should be doable. just missing 2 points in the list

that's already nine, ... Transfer Chaser sounds doable too. Additional from Tripple Trouble too. Maybe I get an additional fractal mastery point too ...

 

Well, nothing you do on one afternoon, but it will come to completion. Everything else that's open for me looks just very hard or time consuming to get. At all, i have 40+ open mastery points in the list. On the other hand, what is open is crafting legendaries "Scholar of secret training". And this is much more in the future then getting 9 Mastery Points.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Sevetamryn.2974
typo

[Noodle Ant.1605]

On 4/27/2022 at 9:56 PM, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

What would from my point of view be much more interesting, if it makes sense at all - and i think it does, alternatives to the usual XY-gaer+Z-runes, best in slot min-max meta build. - I think i don't need the perfect meta build. But i'm sure, there are viable builds, just short to perfect meta, but still good enough for a fraction of the price.

However, even at a fraction of the price i have neither the resources nor the time or skill to make a good decision / recommendation by testing lot different combinations. - Imagine alone the number of extractors needed to check out different, much cheaper, but probably good other runes. Any experience from this side would be very welcome. 

Two things i found and really appreciate on YouTube that helped me, and we need more of this:

• Mind over Meta - big focus well performing celestial build
• Mukluck and the persons supporting this content - Low intensity builds - highly complex rotations are out of dexterity for many players - because new or also because restricted in dexterity at all.

Maybe there is more in this direction available and i just do not know it for now.

theres seems to be a number of contradictory things beginning to unfold in this thread. starting from 0 has been proven to be rather pointless as anyone who knows how to farm will do just that (lv 80 boost plonks you right in SW anyway) and get cheap berserker gear fairly quickly (~1g named weapons e.g. ebonblade, devona/nika/zhed’s armor). in advice form: you always want to start off gearing a zerker/power set since its one of the cheapest sets thats used in endgame anyway. generally speaking, you should only start considering viper/condi when you can stat choose/swap asc gear (when you get it) to save total costs

cele guides are only mainly applicable when using the lv 80 boost, because otherwise exotic cele gear is a pain to get. they also dont really have much of an advantage over minmaxed gearsets, apart from being tankier (which is possibly detrimental if considering raids)

i dont think the gearing process is supposed to be rushed. trying to use cheaper alternatives but expecting it to perform well is contradictory, as is replacing it later on with a proper one (it just increases total cost). if necessary, an incomplete set of gear wont stop you from doing content (except for fractals which requires ar); otherwise just keep farming to get a proper complete gear set

On 4/27/2022 at 9:56 PM, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

I think, those people understood what the missing information is. We don't need the 100's time "perfect meta build 1% better then the last one if you precast ... bla bla ... rotaion ..." I think, if i can do ... hmm, 85% ... of whata "meta pro" does, reasonable consistently ... I'm probably fine.

the missing information is that a lot of people need to be explicitly told how to play the game because they are unable (for whatever reason, e.g. not enough time) to research or experiment to truly know what is happening with their build. trying to do a rotation without knowing why the buttons are ordered in that way is like trying to speak a language you dont even understand

what youre seeing is the fact that its much easier to get people to copy the same sounds than to teach them the whole language… frankly speaking, LI build guides still do essentially the same thing, but at least theyre designed to get to get rid of the fluff you dont necessarily need to still get the point across

[Sevetamryn.2974]

4 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

the missing information is that a lot of people need to be explicitly told how to play the game because they are unable (for whatever reason, e.g. not enough time) to research or experiment to truly know what is happening with their build. trying to do a rotation without knowing why the buttons are ordered in that way is like trying to speak a language you dont even understand

what youre seeing is the fact that its much easier to get people to copy the same sounds than to teach them the whole language… frankly speaking, LI build guides still do essentially the same thing, but at least theyre designed to get to get rid of the fluff you dont necessarily need to still get the point across

 

You are mostly right here. Mostly because experimenting is super time and resource consuming. You don not just check out half a dozed of gear / upgrade combinations. This game itself and character setup options are so ... endless ... and the learning curve is something to consider.. And off course, people want so shout cut by getting recommendations. And this search for recommendations easily ends up in finding the "Meta builds".

And this also reflects on the market - high demand of only a small amount of "meta setups" ... 

[Dante.1508]

13 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

theres seems to be a number of contradictory things beginning to unfold in this thread. starting from 0 has been proven to be rather pointless as anyone who knows how to farm will do just that (lv 80 boost plonks you right in SW anyway) and get cheap berserker gear fairly quickly (~1g named weapons e.g. ebonblade, devona/nika/zhed’s armor). in advice form: you always want to start off gearing a zerker/power set since its one of the cheapest sets thats used in endgame anyway. generally speaking, you should only start considering viper/condi when you can stat choose/swap asc gear (when you get it) to save total costs

cele guides are only mainly applicable when using the lv 80 boost, because otherwise exotic cele gear is a pain to get. they also dont really have much of an advantage over minmaxed gearsets, apart from being tankier (which is possibly detrimental if considering raids)

i dont think the gearing process is supposed to be rushed. trying to use cheaper alternatives but expecting it to perform well is contradictory, as is replacing it later on with a proper one (it just increases total cost). if necessary, an incomplete set of gear wont stop you from doing content (except for fractals which requires ar); otherwise just keep farming to get a proper complete gear set

the missing information is that a lot of people need to be explicitly told how to play the game because they are unable (for whatever reason, e.g. not enough time) to research or experiment to truly know what is happening with their build. trying to do a rotation without knowing why the buttons are ordered in that way is like trying to speak a language you dont even understand

what youre seeing is the fact that its much easier to get people to copy the same sounds than to teach them the whole language… frankly speaking, LI build guides still do essentially the same thing, but at least theyre designed to get to get rid of the fluff you dont necessarily need to still get the point across

Berserker gear gets me killed in seconds.

[Bakeneko.5826]

On 4/26/2022 at 3:46 PM, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

Hello,

 

Veteran, YouTube comnten creator, pleas don't take this as an offense, I'm relatively new, on my second character story play. And from this, i have still good memories from my 1st experience to my second character play now. Believe me, this already is a huge difference in how I see the gameplay and how I approach challenges. And that's something we all, too fast, forget over time.

Why this challenge - because i see too often "You can easily get this by doing XYZ", "Just get a full set of ABC gear plus runes and sigil" etc. - And i know, this is usually not said in a offensive way - like the usual "just get good" - However, we all, everywhere in life, adapt to the level of experience we have and take this a the "normal" ... 

 

The challenge:

• Make a new account! No, not a new character with access to you bank, gold, masteries, mounts etc.!
• No gold or gear transfer from your main.
• No gold / gear from your guild, friends, viewers etc. 
• no hard guild carry, stay solo - as a new player most likely does.
• if possibel, stay incognito in relation to your main in game - especially when using LFG
• Gemstore allowed to a limit of 25 bucks a month (excluding main game / expansions / living world)
• lvl 80 upgrade ticket may be used as new player usually has access to it with a lot of game / expansion bundles
• try to sty honest to the challenge when doing things in game in the meaning of "Is this to far fetched that a new play would do this?"

 

Get gear ready for raid or high level fractal - to your actual definition what a player should have, to participate in this kind of content. And if possible, share you experiences in this challenge.

 

You have the advantage to know much more about the game, economy, mechanics etc. That's OK. Nobody can take this away from you. And just to remember you, don't forget, you have to press F to loot fallen enemies 😉 ... this and a lot of comfort, you are familiar with for years, will be gone. You may not even believe what a different the not already found masteries will make.

 

Woodenpotatoes did it already, took less than a week

[Danikat.8537]

2 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Berserker gear gets me killed in seconds.

That can happen. Berserker is what's known as a 'glass cannon' build: hits like a cannon, shatters like glass if it gets hit because you have no defensive stats. It can work, but it means relying entirely on active defences like dodging and kiting to avoid taking too much damage, clearing conditions quickly, and killing the enemy as fast as possible so they don't have time to damage you.

Personally I always preferred to add a little bit of passive defence into my builds. I can play berserker and other pure damage builds, but I don't always want to be reliant on timing everything just right, and I do want to be the person who will run across a massive AoE to revive a downed player, so being able to absorb some damage is useful for me and the extra few seconds to kill an enemy solo are usually not a problem.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

9 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Berserker gear gets me killed in seconds.

to be fair, the op listed fractals and raids as end goals for the “challenge”, so i didnt think i really needed to consider the more survivable gear sets

on top of that, the challenge was aimed at vets  (that are likely familiar with fractals and raids) who may already be comfortable running glass almost anywhere, maybe besides soloing a group event that clearly says that its for a group

[Shikaru.7618]

I've done this on a second alt account and it honestly took me a few days to get my first raid clear.

 

1. Boost to 80. Immediately start hot and pof to get basic mounts and gliding.

2. Ran to mount maelstrom and fireheart rise and pugged those dungeons to get tokens for berserker gear.

3. Used gold from dungeons to get cheap runes and sigils. At the time I did it, strength runes and ogre runes were fairly cheap.

4. Sold the MC I got from daily login to get 4 gold.

5. During downtime I afked world boss trains to get easy ectos for money.

6. Once I was geared, I whispered commanders looking for BS telling them I had no kp but I know the fight. They were willing to give me a chance.

7. Eventually cleared wing 1 and 4. Mesmer was nice enough to portal me to platforms.

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Shikaru.7618

[Dante.1508]

On 4/27/2022 at 3:55 AM, Zaraki.5784 said:

Ok but what do we get for that? A challenge without any reward is a big no for me.

Isn't the reward viewers that throw money at you for no reason and for doing what you love instead of real work?

[Sevetamryn.2974]

16 hours ago, Shikaru.7618 said:

I've done this on a second alt account and it honestly took me a few days to get my first raid clear.

 

1. Boost to 80. Immediately start hot and pof to get basic mounts and gliding.

2. Ran to mount maelstrom and fireheart rise and pugged those dungeons to get tokens for berserker gear.

3. Used gold from dungeons to get cheap runes and sigils. At the time I did it, strength runes and ogre runes were fairly cheap.

4. Sold the MC I got from daily login to get 4 gold.

5. During downtime I afked world boss trains to get easy ectos for money.

6. Once I was geared, I whispered commanders looking for BS telling them I had no kp but I know the fight. They were willing to give me a chance.

7. Eventually cleared wing 1 and 4. Mesmer was nice enough to portal me to platforms.

 

 

You totally miss the point here. And probably I have not stated this intention clear enough. I believed it is clear from context. 

This is exactly not what a new player would or could do and even want's to do. This is a beautiful game with a vast amount of content to explore and understand. I'm 800+ hours in and there is so much I don't understand fully and/or want to explore deeper. 

Abd b.t.w. "looking for BS telling them I had no kp ..." - that's exactly the gibberish BS (and yes, the traditional meaning of BS) what also holds back new players from using LFG to access instanced content.

New players usually will not plan the game time form activities worth at least 30 gold a hour because everything else in not worth the time. A schedule and KPI's I have in my job!

Don't take me wrong "there is no wrong way to play a game as long as you enjoy the way you do" - playing for in game wealth only, speed running instanced content etc. - All valid but IMHO not what the main purpose and main target group of MMO is. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Sevetamryn.2974
typo

[yoni.7015]

15 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Isn't the reward viewers that throw money at you for no reason and for doing what you love instead of real work?

What a stupid comment. What is real work? Is it bad to get money for doing what you like? 

Edited April 30, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Dante.1508]

4 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

What a hateful comment. What is real work? Is it bad to get money for doing what you like? 

No it isn't.

[Khisanth.2948]

21 hours ago, Shikaru.7618 said:

I've done this on a second alt account and it honestly took me a few days to get my first raid clear.

 

1. Boost to 80. Immediately start hot and pof to get basic mounts and gliding.

2. Ran to mount maelstrom and fireheart rise and pugged those dungeons to get tokens for berserker gear.

3. Used gold from dungeons to get cheap runes and sigils. At the time I did it, strength runes and ogre runes were fairly cheap.

4. Sold the MC I got from daily login to get 4 gold.

5. During downtime I afked world boss trains to get easy ectos for money.

6. Once I was geared, I whispered commanders looking for BS telling them I had no kp but I know the fight. They were willing to give me a chance.

7. Eventually cleared wing 1 and 4. Mesmer was nice enough to portal me to platforms.

 

This is an excellent demonstration of why this challenge is not a suitable rebuttal advice about gearing.

That and people are much better at finding excuses for why they can't do X before even trying.

If you try to provide alternatives then it becomes "this is too complicated".

5 hours ago, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

 

You totally miss the point here. And probably I have not stated this intention clear enough. I believed it is clear from context. 

This is exactly not what a new player would or could do and even want's to do. This is a beautiful game with a vast amount of content to explore and understand. I'm 800+ hours in and there is so much I don't understand fully and/or want to explore deeper. 

Abd b.t.w. "looking for BS telling them I had no kp ..." - that's exactly the gibberish BS (and yes, the traditional meaning of BS) what also holds back new players from using LFG to access instanced content.

New players usually will not plan the game time form activities worth at least 30 gold a hour because everything else in not worth the time. A schedule and KPI's I have in my job!

Don't take me wrong "there is no wrong way to play a game as long as you enjoy the way you do" - playing for in game wealth only, speed running instanced content etc. - All valid but IMHO not what the main purpose and main target group of MMO is. 

You know what is actual BS? "here are some rules but there are also some unwritten rules you should infer from context"

 

[Sevetamryn.2974]

9 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

This is an excellent demonstration of why this challenge is not a suitable rebuttal advice about gearing.

....

 

 Well, you read my word but obviously don't understand the meaning and context, May be my fault.

[Shikaru.7618]

5 hours ago, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

 

You totally miss the point here. And probably I have not stated this intention clear enough. I believed it is clear from context. 

This is exactly not what a new player would or could do and even want's to do. This is a beautiful game with a vast amount of content to explore and understand. I'm 800+ hours in and there is so much I don't understand fully and/or want to explore deeper. 

Abd b.t.w. "looking for BS telling them I had no kp ..." - that's exactly the gibberish BS (and yes, the traditional meaning of BS) what also holds back new players from using LFG to access instanced content.

New players usually will not plan the game time form activities worth at least 30 gold a hour because everything else in not worth the time. A schedule and KPI's I have in my job!

Don't take me wrong "there is no wrong way to play a game as long as you enjoy the way you do" - playing for in game wealth only, speed running instanced content etc. - All valid but IMHO not what the main purpose and main target group of MMO is. 

You stated that I can use my knowledge as a veteran player but now I have intentionally not use it? I think the only way to simulate this is to roll a d20 and have it randomly pick an activity for me. Also when I was a new player as soon as I reached max level, I went straight to clearing dungeons because that was the hardest content in the game so the path I took here is not too far from my original new player experience. It's not my fault new players skip one of the cheapest ways to gear their characters in exotic zerker gear.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Shikaru.7618