PvE Open World Legendary Armor Proposal (draft)

[Labjax.2465]

This is somewhat based on the WvW legendary armor set to be similar in spirit and I'm also just taking some generic components from it. Any numbers are rough draft concept, apart from copying those in WvW armor. I have not done the math part and leave that to people who enjoy math more.

 

Components for each piece (*names of new items are intentionally silly placeholder names, the proposal itself is serious):

(Gift of Taxiing)

1. 1,000 Glowing Egg Timer (acquired from successful completion of meta bosses, time-gated, more on this below)
2. Eldritch Scroll (50 Spirit Shards)
3. 50 Obsidian Shards
4. Cube of Stabilized Dark Energy (1 Ball of Dark Energy, 75 Stabilizing Matrices)

(Gift of Tagging)

1. 100 Bottle of Adventurer's Sweat (acquired from completion of Events)
2. 100 Bent Spoon (acquired from completion of Hearts, more acquired from repeatable Hearts in end-game zones)
3. Certificate of Repetition (purchased with 50,000 Karma)
4. Certificate of Reading Map Chat (purchased with 250 Proof of Getting Downed, acquired from Hero Points, either ones you haven't completed yet on the character or repeatable ones daily)

(Gift of Position Rewinding)

1. 100 Essence of Jump Dodging (acquired from Jump Puzzle final chests and can be traded with other players)
2. 15 Mystic Clovers
3. Gift of Condensed Might
4. Gift of Condensed Magic

Precursor: A piece of Ascended Armor (the kind with the skin you would get from crafting or rare boxes, e.g. not including WvW ascended armor or the like)

Glowing Egg Timers Summary: I don't like time gates, but that's the trend with legendary armor, so what I propose is that an amount of these is awarded from the successful completion of each meta event through the daily chests*. These would also have a weekly limit, so you can still get your daily chests after you've hit the limit, but you can't get more Glowing Egg Timers after you've hit cap for that week. This would encourage you to do a higher variety of meta events each week, so you can reach your weekly cap more quickly.

*some metas would need daily chests added to them so they aren't left in the cold

Glowing Egg Timers Rotation: some metas award more Glowing Egg Timers on a daily rotation, so that more meta events get attention (e.g. people don't just do the easiest all week and ignore other metas).

Anticipated Questions:

"You have a currency from events, but there's already karma." Yep. A new one on top of karma that is specifically for legendary armor would avoid the problem of people with mounds of karma having a headstart, or newer players needing an obscene amount of karma to get even a single piece. I'm thinking of karma cost as the Badge of Honor equivalent currency.

"You don't have a nine part series of collections, is this even a legendary?" Collections aren't something I get much out of, so it's not something I want to put much thought into proposing as part of this. I'm focusing on what the components might look like, mostly. You're welcome to add ideas.

"This seems like a lot." I know, legendaries in this game are really something and I'm trying to model this after others.

"This seems like nothing and is too easy." I know, legendaries in this game are so easy and I'm making it even easier.

"Hey wait a minute, you're changing sides there." I know, some people they just can't be consistent, it's really something.

 

Your Thoughts: What are they? Keep in mind this is not meant to be a final draft type of proposal for the game, but something to chew on for possible design if they were to go this route and help move this conversation past yes/no. And on that note, please do add your thoughts about what could make this work. Please don't pollute the thread with debate about whether there should be an open world legendary armor.

[mindcircus.1506]

I wasn't expecting this to be so funny... thanks for the laffs. 🙂

[Labjax.2465]

52 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

I wasn't expecting this to be so funny... thanks for the laffs. 🙂

Hey, glad to hear it. And thanks for your celestial firebrand build for open world. I started using it recently and it's been great fun!

[SlayerXX.7138]

Neat and specific I like it. But it has the same Flaw as all other suggestions you basically want Bonus loot on OW play. And you precursor has less OW-play then raid precursors.

 

Besides the Jumping puzzle stuff, you can get everything else while farming gold. And you choose to make the one thing that has a little challenge involved to be tradable. Glowing egg timer seems fine as you at least trade existing rewards for getting them.

 

Getting currency from renowned hearts seems fine, as these aren't profitable. But 100?.  You would get enough for 3 piece for one map completion on top of Gift of exploration.

 

100 Event for legendary armor?  Come on! We need at least a 4 Bottle of Adventurer's Sweat cap per map per day. And even then 100 seems absurdly low. People shouldn't be able to farm drizzle wood for there legendary except for the material cost.

 

• Certificate of Repetition (purchased with 50,000 Karma) is also suspiciously cheaper then the corresponding parts of the existing armor.

 

Hero points also seems like a good way to get to legendary armor as they aren't that profitable but even with the high cost of 250 you almost get all you need while doing Gift of exploration.

 

As all suggestions before it that armor is cheaper, faster to get, more profitable to get while being disconnected from anything challenging.

Edit: Which I don't like

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Albi.7250

[vares.8457]

Hmm your proposal doesn’t convince me, sorry. 

[sorudo.9054]

so your suggestion is: farm your kitten off.

we need an actual long quest line, one that stays inside the open world and doesn't depend on timed metas. (or any meta for that matter)

you want it PvE, i want it solo, this does both.

it can still be hella difficult to get trough, a good story (especially a long one) is worth tons more than yet more farming.

[Labjax.2465]

8 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

Neat and specific I like it. But it has the same Flaw as all other suggestions you basically want Bonus loot on OW play. And you precursor has less OW-play then raid precursors.

 

Besides the Jumping puzzle stuff, you can get everything else while farming gold. And you choose to make the one thing that has a little challenge involved to be tradable. Glowing egg timer seems fine as you at least trade existing rewards for getting them.

 

Getting currency from renowned hearts seems fine, as these aren't profitable. But 100?.  You would get enough for 3 piece for one map completion on top of Gift of exploration.

 

100 Event for legendary armor?  Come on! We need at least a 4 Bottle of Adventurer's Sweat cap per map per day. And even then 100 seems absurdly low. People shouldn't be able to farm drizzle wood for there legendary except for the material cost.

 

• Certificate of Repetition (purchased with 50,000 Karma) is also suspiciously cheaper then the corresponding parts of the existing armor.

 

Hero points also seems like a good way to get to legendary armor as they aren't that profitable but even with the high cost of 250 you almost get all you need while doing Gift of exploration.

 

As all suggestions before it that armor is cheaper, faster to get, more profitable to get while being disconnected from anything challenging.

Edit: Which I don't like

 

Re: numbers, see:

Quote

Any numbers are rough draft concept, apart from copying those in WvW armor. I have not done the math part and leave that to people who enjoy math more.

As far as the critism that it's "bonus loot," if you've ever gone for a piece of WvW armor, it's basically the same thing. It takes a while, but it's "bonus loot" (if you want to see it that way) on top of playing WvW a lot for a long enough time. (And as long as you can find a good commander to follow around, is "disconnected from anything challenging").

Whether that's a reasonable way to design it, definitely up for debate, but that's what I was modeling it after primarily. I didn't even look at the raid armor tbh, because I didn't want to subconsciously copy it and instead just focus on open world and the spirit of it, using WvW armor as a guide for requirements.

And making the jump puzzle one tradeable is for two reasons: 1) some people really hate jump puzzles and if forced to do them would just use ports on the ones they can use ports on (welcome to whole industry of players selling ports to JPs). 2) it adds more value to completion of jump puzzles, so that those who do enjoy them can get more out of it.

I'm still not convinced myself that making such tradeable would avoid a "selling ports to JPs" thing from popping up, but at least it places a gold value on them, so you can do the math and see it's probably not worth the gold to pay someone.

As it is, some people do ports to JPs for free, or even help others reach the top which is awesome, but I have concerns about that being marred by a reward that is too good, more so an account bound one.

So it's not so much about eliminating challenge as you are seeing it, but about considering what the consequences of putting an important reward there would be and I'm open to thoughts on that.

Any alternative suggestions on the precursor? I see that's another thing you pointed out and I don't have any defense there. My intent there was to make it a precursor that ties into a path open world players would probably already be going down, rather than Anet needing to make an entirely new set of ascended armor (which if it uses a new skin, is an extra cost barrier for Anet considering this).

Edited April 27, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Labjax.2465]

2 hours ago, sorudo.9054 said:

so your suggestion is: farm your kitten off.

we need an actual long quest line, one that stays inside the open world and doesn't depend on timed metas. (or any meta for that matter)

you want it PvE, i want it solo, this does both.

it can still be hella difficult to get trough, a good story (especially a long one) is worth tons more than yet more farming.

Any thoughts on what that might look like? I take it you mean a series of collections like some of the other legendary stuff? Or do you mean like an actual storyline to it?

[Parasite.5389]

21 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

1,000 Glowing Egg Timer (acquired from successful completion of meta bosses, time-gated, more on this below)

 

Glowing Egg Timers Summary: I don't like time gates, but that's the trend with legendary armor, so what I propose is that an amount of these is awarded from the successful completion of each meta event through the daily chests*. These would also have a weekly limit, so you can still get your daily chests after you've hit the limit, but you can't get more Glowing Egg Timers after you've hit cap for that week. This would encourage you to do a higher variety of meta events each week, so you can reach your weekly cap more quickly.

*some metas would need daily chests added to them so they aren't left in the cold

Glowing Egg Timers Rotation: some metas award more Glowing Egg Timers on a daily rotation, so that more meta events get attention (e.g. people don't just do the easiest all week and ignore other metas).

 

so... 4 meta's in HoT, 4 in PoF, another 4 in EoD - 12 daily metas, if you do all of them every day for the 6000 you'll need for a full set of legendary armor, you'll need to play for 500 days.

something not quite right there

[Labjax.2465]

18 minutes ago, Parasite.5389 said:

so... 4 meta's in HoT, 4 in PoF, another 4 in EoD - 12 daily metas, if you do all of them every day for the 6000 you'll need for a full set of legendary armor, you'll need to play for 500 days.

something not quite right there

You are correct:

Quote

Any numbers are rough draft concept, apart from copying those in WvW armor. I have not done the math part and leave that to people who enjoy math more.

 

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

As far as the critism that it's "bonus loot," if you've ever gone for a piece of WvW armor, it's basically the same thing. It takes a while, but it's "bonus loot" (if you want to see it that way) on top of playing WvW a lot for a long enough time. (And as long as you can find a good commander to follow around, is "disconnected from anything challenging").

That is the main point of misunderstanding which i think OW players struggle with.  WvW currency is the loot. It is like 80% of the reward of doing WvW. Rewards track are so not profitable https://metabattle.com/wiki/Guide:Ways_to_Earn_Gold list them at the bottom and are to afraid to even give you a number. If you introduce new valuable legendary armor currency you create Bonus loot. OW players look at the tiny numbers of tickets, shards and Insight get confused what work(intensity x time) is hidden behind these numbers. They see 600 ascended shards(PvP) and think it is something like 600 Airship Parts. Or it at least reads like that looking at the forum.

 

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

(And as long as you can find a good commander to follow around, is "disconnected from anything challenging").

If you don't want to be a leech then that is still more challenging then most metas.

 

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Re: numbers, see:

I saw and so I did the rough math, which is why I don't like these numbers:D.

 

 

 

[Labjax.2465]

11 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

That is the main point of misunderstanding which i think OW players struggle with.  WvW currency is the loot. It is like 80% of the reward of doing WvW. Rewards track are so not profitable https://metabattle.com/wiki/Guide:Ways_to_Earn_Gold list them at the bottom and are to afraid to even give you a number. If you introduce new valuable legendary armor currency you create Bonus loot. OW players look at the tiny numbers of tickets, shards and Insight get confused what work(intensity x time) is hidden behind these numbers. They see 600 ascended shards(PvP) and think it is something like 600 Airship Parts. Or it at least reads like that looking at the forum.

 

If you don't want to be a leech then that is still more challenging then most metas.

 

I saw and so I did the rough math, which is why I don't like these numbers:D.

 

 

 

Well WvW rewards are being looked at according to Anet. And I don't fully understand your perception of it as bonus loot speculating that it's because OW players get confused what's behind "the work." I have a piece of legendary WvW armor. Nothing about it was challenging, I just played WvW a lot for like a month or two and I filled out the non-WvW-specific parts wherever I could fill it out, sometimes through PvE (which is a good reason why WvW rewards alone do need looking at).

I take my participation in WvW and metas both seriously, and I can't say either takes more energy for me. If anything, I find WvW less engaging because of all the running around and doing the same thing, but that's just me. Anyway, point is I don't get saying that it's "more challenging than most metas."

Edited April 28, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Any alternative suggestions on the precursor? I see that's another thing you pointed out and I don't have any defense there. My intent there was to make it a precursor that ties into a path open world players would probably already be going down, rather than Anet needing to make an entirely new set of ascended armor (which if it uses a new skin, is an extra cost barrier for Anet considering this).

I actually have a bunch:

1. Boring WvW/PvP:  whatever the Legendary armor currency ends up, you just can buy it with that currency and a gold price
2. A One time collection with many parts. Pick up papers or whatever, I hope you know what i mean. Numerous enough so mesmer don't stand next to the hard to get ones with their services. Across All of tyria. So even if player dont want to go on a year long legendary armor journey, they get 1 set of ascended gear "for free". Bonus points if some are hard to get so you have  to use your mounts glider other OW tools.
3. Some instanced recycled Elite mob encounter to test your valor if you face the elite alone.(that one is what i would personally like, but probably not quite populat)

 

[Caitmonster.9036]

Ah, for a moment I thought this was just satire looking at those gift names and was going to suggest a "Gift of Autoattacking" too, but I see you're serious. Disappointing.

[Serephen.3420]

OW: most profitable loot in the game

WvW: poorest loot in the game

[Ashen.2907]

You definitely need to cbange, "adventurer's sweat," to, "adventurer's tears." There also needs to be a, "forumite salt," component...lots of it.

 

I am not inherenty opposed to the idea of legendary armor that ca  be earned in OW PvE, it already exists in the form of WvW armor where AP, daily big spender, and box of wvw supplies can get you there, eventually, without ever actually playing WvW....eventually.

My point of conflict with such suggestikns in the past has been authors complaining that no OW path exists and that they are not trying to make the process faster, easier, or cheaper than existing paths...when that is exactly what they are suggesting.  The instant a proposal excludes the possibility that a handful, or more, other players can prevent you from making progress, then the suggestion is easier than wvw.

All of that said, if the proposal is that the current path(s) to legendary armor is too long, convoluted, and expensive....well, I agree. I do not think that a particularly high percentage of PvEers goinv into WvW or PvP will stay beyond getting their reward. ANet seems to have abandoned Raid development so requiring lengthy participation in an obsolete game mode seems like a bad idea too. I think that requiring some participation in the current iteration of instanced play, strike missions, to get a legendary is reasonable, but when those are abandoned for a new type of instanced team play in a year or two the legendary journey would need to be updated.

[Labjax.2465]

1 minute ago, Ashen.2907 said:

You definitely need to cbange, "adventurer's sweat," to, "adventurer's tears." There also needs to be a, "forumite salt," component...lots of it.

 

I am not inherenty opposed to the idea of legendary armor that ca  be earned in OW PvE, it already exists in the form of WvW armor where AP, daily big spender, and box of wvw supplies can get you there, eventually, without ever actually playing WvW....eventually.

My point of conflict with such suggestikns in the past has been authors complaining that no OW path exists and that they are not trying to make the process faster, easier, or cheaper than existing paths...when that is exactly what they are suggesting.  The instant a proposal excludes the possibility that a handful, or more, other players can prevent you from making progress, then the suggestion is easier than wvw.

All of that said, if the proposal is that the current path(s) to legendary armor is too long, convoluted, and expensive....well, I agree. I do not think that a particularly high percentage of PvEers goinv into WvW or PvP will stay beyond getting their reward. ANet seems to have abandoned Raid development so requiring lengthy participation in an obsolete game mode seems like a bad idea too. I think that requiring some participation in the current iteration of instanced play, strike missions, to get a legendary is reasonable, but when those are abandoned for a new type of instanced team play in a year or two the legendary journey would need to be updated.

I mean, I fudged the math because, among other reasons, I'm not getting paid to write this proposal and I had no idea if anyone would even read it, much less take it seriously, but I don't get the thing about making it easier. Maybe I should have put in placeholder numbers like 100,000 for each and people would drop that point. Also, metas do require other people. So I'm not sure if you're referring to my proposal or other stuff you've seen that you don't agree with.

[SlayerXX.7138]

9 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

And I don't fully understand your perception of it as bonus loot speculating that it's because OW players get confused what's behind "the work." I have a piece of legendary WvW armor. Nothing about it was challenging, I just played WvW a lot for like a month or two and I filled out the non-WvW-specific parts wherever I could fill it out, sometimes through PvE (which is a good reason why WvW rewards alone do need looking at).

Look I believe you are well meaning. Putting valuable Currency on top of profitable stuff like events is bonus loot. It will just increase the gold per hour in drizzle wood. I don't know how i could write it down simpler.

 

I mean what do OP-Player do? How to you implement a Legendary armor so you cant get it while farming gold?

[Ashen.2907]

Just now, Labjax.2465 said:

I mean, I fudged the math because, among other reasons, I'm not getting paid to write this proposal and I had no idea if anyone would even read it, much less take it seriously, but I don't get the thing about making it easier. Maybe I should have put in placeholder numbers like 100,000 for each and people would drop that point. Also, metas do require other people. So I'm not sure if you're referring to my proposal or other stuff you've seen that you don't agree with.

I was referring to other such proposals where I have posted negatively, mainly to explain why I agreed with yours, in principle, while disagreeing elsewhere. You were honest in expressing a belief that the process shouldnt be as much of a pain as it currently is....so many other proposals try to hide or deny that. I respect the honesty and agree that making legendary armor more accessible is probably a good idea at this point in the game's lifespan.

And (for any who might question my motive) I say this as someone who has full sets for medium and heavy legendary armor and who is only 2 to 3 weeks away from finishing my light.

 

[Labjax.2465]

11 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Look I believe you are well meaning. Putting valuable Currency on top of profitable stuff like events is bonus loot. It will just increase the gold per hour in drizzle wood. I don't know how i could write it down simpler.

 

I mean what do OP-Player do? How to you implement a Legendary armor so you cant get it while farming gold?

I think what we're talking about here is how to make the currency something that is a tradeoff? I wasn't sure before, but it seems clearer now. The reason I went for new currencies is because of the complexity of trying to handle things like: if stuff uses an existing currency (ex: trade in one Auric Ingot for one Provisioner Token daily) now some players have an advantage going into it or you have to time gate it so badly it's hard to engage with.

But it could contain more mat sinks that force you to choose between gold gain and working on the legendary. There is already precedent for that kind of thing with legendary weapons, like the gen 1, where saving t6 mats for the gifts is going to be a significant loss in gold gain over time compared to being able to sell it. And in modeling it after WvW, there is some of that in there with the Gift of Condensed Might and Gift of Condensed Magic. But there could certainly be more.

Edit: Like off the top of my head, light requiring some kind of mixed stack of Cloth (like in the same concept as Gift of Condensed Might and Gift of Condensed Magic, it could be a combo of different levels of Cloth and quanity), medium requiring leather, heavy requiring metal.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Labjax.2465]

2 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I was referring to other such proposals where I have posted negatively, mainly to explain why I agreed with yours, in principle, while disagreeing elsewhere. You were honest in expressing a belief that the process shouldnt be as much of a pain as it currently is....so many other proposals try to hide or deny that. I respect the honesty and agree that making legendary armor more accessible is probably a good idea at this point in the game's lifespan.

And (for any who might question my motive) I say this as someone who has full sets for medium and heavy legendary armor and who is only 2 to 3 weeks away from finishing my light.

 

Oh ok, cool, thanks.

[SlayerXX.7138]

2 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I think what we're talking about here is how to make the currency something that is a tradeoff?

Yes! Everyone who is on the fence on the idea cites that as the breaking point.

"they want legendary armor for free" "depends on time needed" "they dont want to put any afford into it" etc.

I mean its been a while since someone put a draft with some, somewhat reasonable numbers out. And as thanks the opponents are more civil and the supporters a lot quiter;D.

 

And I'm sure A-net isn't opposed to the idea if there is enough demand for Legendary armor to justify implementing it. And that is the other point. If there are enough people willing to do a "fair" Legendary armor journey, the will implement it.

[Ashen.2907]

19 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

How to you implement a Legendary armor so you cant get it while farming gold?

Perhaps by having the character carry a token to qualify for the other elements and which debuffs gold find.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

There's no reason to reinvent the wheel, the crafting system for gen 2.5 legendary weapons could easily be adapted for armor (just make a legendary shard recipe, let's call it "Shard of the Envoy", that uses silk and thick leather the way the weapon shards use mithril and elder wood, and you're basically set).

[TinLizzie.7308]

I love some of the ideas here 🙂  Anet, please allow us loners who only rarely join groups have something to work towards armor-wise that doesn't require us to live in WvW (a game-mode that is definitely not for me) nor in raids (which forces us into groups and locks down our playstyle in favor of whatever benefits the group rather than what we enjoy playing).  Yes, I'm an introvert who actively avoids being forced into "endgame" group content that forces me off my main character or into a playstyle I do not find enjoyable.  I've not even done the DE meta yet as every map instance I've randomly joined into has not had enough dedicated people- and I'm not the type to go hunting them down.  I just want stat-swappable armor I can grind away towards as I play and enjoy random open-world PvE content.  Give it a cruddy skin with no sparkly bits, I don't care... but having the ability to stat-swap my armor quickly, easily, and for free (once acquired) would be worth a long grind/collection sequence.