[Suggestion] Add a vanilla/free game mount for new players. (before steam release if possible)

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Yunnadel.8296 said:

These kind of thread won't ever work in the forum. (also this comment will suffer the same fate)

Experienced it first hand a few days ago, while trying to suggest "should there be alternatives to 300+ renown hearts?"

(and I emphasize "alternatives", not even "free".)

Then people acted like I tried to smother and drown a quaggan's pup.

 

The mentality of "Y'all shall suffer the same fate as we didddd back in our dayssss in 2012 or something" is real.

Like, REAL.

 

So, really, if anyone has any "ideas" those they think might be good for the game and a QoL that is retroactive, better just send it directly to Anet. No need to ask "don't you think it's a good idea?" for consensus or support from the forum, because I think you hardly ever get one. Mostly you will get "kid these days /smh + some sarcasms" (while the same people are also using mounts to speed through the core Tyria map completion)

Status quo bias is a very real thing.

On the other hand, not every new idea is a good idea either.

Careful about dismissing people who disagree just like you feel they are dismissing you.

[Yunnadel.8296]

4 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

On the other hand, not every new idea is a good idea either.

 

Indeed, that's why I said just send it directly to Anet and save OP's and others' time on something that won't go anywhere anyway.

Might be a good idea, might not be good, might be a good idea but not get implemented anyway and vice versa.

Because in the end, it's Anet decision, and they might or might not care about the forum's opinion anyway.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

11 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

That's what waypoints are for, plus waypoints are part of the gold-sink method that is used to keep the economy healthy.

Waypoints do not tempt free players into getting expansions to get a mount.

 

And the taxis could cost some silver, and also act as a sink.

[Ojyh.9842]

Well, sorry for the long post, just saying what I had to say on the subject. I originally came to the forums to create this topic myself, but realised it was already discussed here, so that's great !

However I am stunned to see so many people being against the idea of a central Tyria mount accessible to new players. Especially when I read so many irrelevant arguments, even ridiculous at times (the comparison with the legendary weapons sounds ludicrous). I think it mostly betrays a lack of vision and imagination. Let me explain myself :
 It kind of reminds me of the times when people used to be against the addition of mounts in GW2... And here we are today, probably having the best mount system ever, but still some of us are opposed to the expansion of that system. Some of the arguments against the mounts were not necessarily stupid though, they were just the expression of legitimate concerns, and obviously the implementation of the mounts had to take some  constraints and restrictions into consideration, but nothing that would  definitely prevent the implementation. The ones who couldn't see the mounts working at all were just people unable to figure a way to implement them correctly. But that way existed nonetheless. In my  opinion we're in a similar situation here.

The only real difficulty I see would be the resources. If A.net feel like it won't be worth it, it won't happen. That's pretty much the only valid objection to me. Other than that, I don't see why they should not work on it. And noone here is able to say if the devs consider it a waste of resources or not, so let's not debate over that.

I didnt read all of the 140 + messages that came before mine, but I've read quite a bit. So maybe I am partly repeating what someone else has already said.
I am just going to describe the way I envision that stuff, and also respond to some of the objections I saw. I've been thinking about it for a long time now, so I think I have a pretty comprehensive vision of the topic (hopefully).

First, I am a veteran player and I agree with what's being said about new players feeling behind because they can't access mounts. Especially the fact that they feel obliged to use their lvl 80 boost to quickly get a Raptor by doing a story step that should be done tens (undreads ? thousands ?) of hours later, and then go back to their normal progression. This situation is completely absurd.
The game's population has more than doubled over the couple past years. It's certainly visible on youtube or twitch where tons of new players are recording their adventures. Iv'e been following many of them, and I can tell you that having a mount during early game would make their experience a lot better. Many of them asked for it, many of them were expecting it when starting the game, just like you would in any MMO that has mounts in fact. Even people here on this topic said the same thing, and I am baffled by some of the responses veteran players gave them. Like they're almost telling those new players "no ! you shouldn't want that, you have no reason to ! You think you'd like it but you don't !" (like players can't know what they would like ? or what would be good for the game just because YOU feel like it ?) and making all sorts of bizarre excuses for that, without realizing that most them don't even hold up if you take the "Raptor trick" into consideration. Sometimes I'm wondering if it's not some kind of jealousy, like "we didn't have it when we started the game, so you can't have it either".
I am certain it would be a great addition to the game and help a lot with player retention, but not only that. The way I'm seeing it could also be a nice introduction to some contents and systems.

How I see the Central Tyria mounts being implemented :

-  I believe the central Tyria mounts should be new ones. That is why the question of the resources is important, it requires more work than taking an already existsing mount, which btw would be incredibly lame on so many levels (even for the lore).  The Raptor taxi is even worse in my opinion, although I understand why they put it in Cantha it's definitely a useless effort. People want to ride a mount they can move freely, not to follow a guided tour.

- This new mount probably should not be accessible right away. Either with a lvl cap, or just by putting them somewhere new players can't access right from the start. I agree that slowing down the pace when you're not even introduced to most of the basic mechanics of the game yet is a good idea. MMO players are used to not get that kind of stuff at the begining of their adventure anyway. The perspective of having a mount to unlock quite soon is something that really has some great power to retain players and keep them engaged.

- They are less efficient than the PoF mounts. Similar to a Warclaw in a sense. They have the quality animations, the momentum and a movement skill that make the GW2 mounts great, but they don't have an advantage over the other ones, which makes sure that the expansion mounts stay unique and attractive. I even suggest they would not have an engage skill, it is replaced by a simple dismount button.

- The Central Tyria mounts are rented mounts. You have to pay a small fee to an NPC to have access to a mount for a limited amount of time. You can pay several times in a row to accumulate renting time (capped) so you don't have to go back to the NPC too often. The rent takes effect only for the character who paid for it.

- Each map should have some stables/barns/ranches where players can rent those mounts. This is also something that requires a bit more resources, because the devs will have to think about where to put them and put assets at these places, because it would be weird to just have a random NPC in the middle of nowhere. Those places should be visible on the map and replace some of the waypoints or points of interest so they are actually part the map completion and the player will be directed towards them while exploring. Also, if everyone can get a mount, then less waypoints is a good thing !
If you're the kind of person who thinks walking is better than having a fast mount to enjoy the world (and I kinda agree to some extent), you would probably agree that exploring the world on a mount is still better than taking waypoints, and players better use a mount suited for that environnement instead of a Raptor they got by using a lvl boost.

- When your character hits lvl 80 AND you have purchased an expansion, you unlock a new dialogue option with the renting NPC to begin a collection (not too complicated, we don't want something like the Griffon collection) to unlock your own mount for your account. The recent update that lets people start their mastery training without having to start an expansion story first is a very welcomed thing that would surely helps in this context. 
In the end it is a first experience with mounts, a first experience with masteries, and an interesting way to tell people they can get great stuff thanks to collections.
So you still have to buy the expansions ! The incentive to buy is still there (although I don't believe at all that giving this mount without buying anything would kill this icentive in any way, it would be like saying that people buy all of the expansions SOLELY to get ONE mount wich is ridiculous). Also the collection could be a way to push players towards Central Tyria contents they might miss otherwise.
Thanks to the mastery system you can upgrade your mount a little bit, making it more efficient and gaining an engage skill.

- For a little bit of flavor and immersion, it would be nice to see some NPCs using the mounts.

I probably missed some things here and there but that's pretty much how I see it.

Now I also have a bigger and more complete version of this idea that consists in adding one different mount for each playable race. Each mount can be rented by any character, but you can only unlock the collection of the mount corresponding to your race, which means you need one character of each race to get them all. That is also part of another idea I have about giving back some importance to the race you choose, because I believe they lost a lot of their purpose and cultural identity since launch in 2012.
But this is probably too much... Although it would be the greater option if A.net had "unlimited" resources. I already have each one them and all their movement abilities in mind, except for the Charr one, I am having a hard time finding a satisfying movement ability for a Devourer mount.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Ojyh.9842
correct typo

[robertthebard.8150]

On 4/30/2022 at 6:29 PM, Labjax.2465 said:

Ok, go play a new character in core tyria on a new account and see how you fare. You can come back and share the results with us.

Hi.  I did just that when I first started.  It took me a year to decide I wanted to go ahead and get my Raptor unlocked, and I never once felt like I needed to.  I still haven't bothered with my Griffon.  It took almost another year to decide to get the skimmer...  I also don't have the Jackyl yet.  Mounts just aren't as important as the forums would lead us to believe, in Core Tyria.  The experience in Core was built with no mounts in game at all, after all.

 

This "But Steam players" argument?  While I have my own issues with Steam in general, a lot of players there are long term gamers, and understand gaming, in general.  This is debatable, of course, with things like review bombing Vanilla Skyrim for the SE's Creation Club, since Vanilla Skyrim has no access to the Creation Club, but overall, they aren't Day 1 new gamers, with no concept of "certain things weren't introduced with the original game, and if I'm starting from scratch, I'm going to expect that to be the case".  What this really seems like, from my perspective, are a bunch of players with Steam accounts, that plan to get the game through Steam, and want free mounts.

[Sinmir.6504]

One problem basic mounts could cause, I hadn't thought about it when I asked what the guy was talking about in a recent thread about Warclaws. I'd buy a select license anyway rather than the random one, but those that buy a random license and get a skin for the basic mount won't be too pleased. Then the F2Pers might get skins they can't use f they buy a random license hoping for a skin for their mount.

[kharmin.7683]

14 hours ago, MithranArkanere.8957 said:

Waypoints do not tempt free players into getting expansions to get a mount.

 

And the taxis could cost some silver, and also act as a sink.

Waypoints aren't designed to tempt anyone to purchase expansions.  They are used for moving around the world, much like your taxi idea (which is redundant since, again, waypoints exist for exactly that purpose).

I believe the incentive to getting mounts is seeing other players with them.  Then, if a player wants mounts, they would need to purchase the expansion for them which is in Anet's best interest, not giving away free mounts or taxis which don't produce revenue.

[venator.8326]

On 4/30/2022 at 1:18 PM, Ironhide Wolf.3275 said:

TLDR: Suggestion, add a mount to the vanilla game that you can get in a starter city ASAP, no masteries required. (maybe even before steam release if possible.)

 

Long version:

I know development is going strong in so many areas, and dev-power is likely in short supply, BUUUUTT...
First impressions to a new player need to be GW2's/Anets/Community's best foot forward, especially when taking a steam launch into account. Starting areas have received very little attention since launch. Would be great to see this content get some polish love, and a super early mount is this topics suggestion on one way to do that.

I've been seeing new players having done some research into the game use their level 80 boost strictly to get a taxi to PoF for a quick raptor mount. I've also watched quite a few "Im new to GW2" YouTube videos and Twitch streams lately and noticed those who didn't grab a mount feel like the game is a bit slow traversing Tyria on foot. some say they may have quit if they were not "Surrounded by such an awesome community"(love you guys, community and dev's). But, the vast majority of new players won't be streamers or content creators. So, I feel like this might be a hard but possible thing to do to keep a higher new player retention count upon a steam release. 

I was thinking it would be neat to add a mount to vanilla/free GW2 that a player could obtain as soon as they get into their racial starter city. No mastery points required. Maybe even have a little mission to retrieve it, IDK. It doesn't have to be as fast as a raptor or be able to jump like a springer. Maybe give it a little extra movement speed on use of its Endurance bar skill like a sprint button for a mount. Just something that is fun to ride and moves the player around Tyria quicker than a Herald blasting the Facet of Elements for 24/7 swiftness. Maybe even add the ability to mount up in early missions.

I know Anet is playing around with the speed at which players level up. IMO, I don't think the leveling speed is the game speed issue that new players experience, its traversal speed compared to the GW2 Veteran they see flying by on a raptor or even a siege turtle. "Awesome! When do I get a mount!?" ... "2 expansions in, kiddo." ... *Watches the excited glimmer in their eyes dry up on stream*

IMO this would do a few things.

- This would increase new player retention, resulting in a higher possible customer pool for the Anet and a higher player count for the rest of us to game with.

- This would allow new players to retain their level 80 boost and use it on a character they really want to use it on rather than blowing it just to get a mount asap. Or allow players to experience the game spoiler-free but also have the speed that a mount offers.

- This would also give Anet another mount to monetize skins from for a higher revenue gain.

A win-win depending on how much dev time and resources this could take.

 

__________________ End of suggestion__________________

I have a couple other suggestions like every other player out there, but I wanna see where this specific one goes. 

Hope a dev gives this a little skimming over if the 'tldr' elevator pitch was good enough xD.

 

Been playing Guild Wars since early GW1 days, but this is my first time using the forums. So im sure I did something horribly wrong.

I tried searching for a topic like this but couldn't find any after searching a few pages, so sorry if this is a double-post, or if I messed up some other forum etiquette.

 

PS. For the love of the legions, don't make it a Horse. #TeamHorsesAreNOTReal

- Felan.

OP is 100% right, Anet needs to add a free mount for new players from level 1, if they don't do that new players will quit the game at some point before they even get to POF, simply because they will get very annoyed playing a walking simulator. Now I know some die hards in the GW2 community will give a lot examples why Gw2 never must change and so on...Well just keep in mind the potential growth that Anet will miss out if they make the path to max level for new players unnesserry harder. MMO's must evolve and adjust over time, GW2 has been stuck in the past for to long, there bust be some change at least for new players if GW2 wants to be somehow relevant and Steam is a very good chance to make GW2 relevant for new or current MMO players that play other MMO's.  GW2 is a niche game but NCSOFT cares only about profit and atm profit for GW2 is very very low, that's why they are going to steam and if they f this up the 4th expansion could vey likely the last one. So in short CHANGE is badly needed to attract new players and keep them.

[standardFoe.2983]

All over this thread is the idea that the game evolving means getting unnecessary but nice QoL perks for free.  I don't think there is any incentive in it for Anet to offer a free mount if new players see something they like, then support the devs and pay for it.

 

This isn't some exercise in survival of the fittest in player longevity, if the influx of new players from steam are only interested in easy achievements they will be significantly disappointed in the rest of GW2 and probably wouldn't stick around anyways.

 

Seriously do the Blizzard forums get inundated with whinging posts about WoW getting with the times and changing programming to fit in better with new MMO's?

 

Unlike the doomers ITT I don't think the steam release is going to kill the game without significant changes but only time will tell.

Edited May 27, 2022 by standardFoe.2983
spelling

[MithranArkanere.8957]

7 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Waypoints aren't designed to tempt anyone to purchase expansions.  They are used for moving around the world, much like your taxi idea (which is redundant since, again, waypoints exist for exactly that purpose).

I believe the incentive to getting mounts is seeing other players with them.  Then, if a player wants mounts, they would need to purchase the expansion for them which is in Anet's best interest, not giving away free mounts or taxis which don't produce revenue.

Nothing works better to get people to want to buy something than a free ride. Like the mount rentals in festivals.

A year-round taxi set up by the Black Lion Trading post in collaboration with the Lionguard, inspired by the Canthan idea would work better than waiting for festivals until they can try the mounts out, as it'll be there year round.

It  doesn't have to be a free mount like OP suggests. A trial will do.  It's got to happen eventually in some way or another.

[Emberfoot.6847]

We all did fine when the game launched with no mounts, but that's because nobody had mounts. Now that some people do, it is extremely common for some events (especially looking at you, dragon bash holograms) to be completed before people even with all WPs but no mounts can physically reach them to even tag. I honestly cannot understand why there can't be, for example, as some people have suggested, mount rentals in each map. 

[kharmin.7683]

27 minutes ago, Emberfoot.6847 said:

I honestly cannot understand why there can't be, for example, as some people have suggested, mount rentals in each map. 

Because players would not purchase the expansion. 

[Emberfoot.6847]

35 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Because players would not purchase the expansion. 

Why on earth would people not purchase an entire expac because you gave them access to the most basic mount in it? Not to mention the fact that just to glide you need HoT, and that comes only with PoF now anyways. 

[robertthebard.8150]

9 hours ago, venator.8326 said:

OP is 100% right, Anet needs to add a free mount for new players from level 1, if they don't do that new players will quit the game at some point before they even get to POF, simply because they will get very annoyed playing a walking simulator. Now I know some die hards in the GW2 community will give a lot examples why Gw2 never must change and so on...Well just keep in mind the potential growth that Anet will miss out if they make the path to max level for new players unnesserry harder. MMO's must evolve and adjust over time, GW2 has been stuck in the past for to long, there bust be some change at least for new players if GW2 wants to be somehow relevant and Steam is a very good chance to make GW2 relevant for new or current MMO players that play other MMO's.  GW2 is a niche game but NCSOFT cares only about profit and atm profit for GW2 is very very low, that's why they are going to steam and if they f this up the 4th expansion could vey likely the last one. So in short CHANGE is badly needed to attract new players and keep them.

The path to max level for new players will be the same as it was for new players before mounts were introduced.  It will not be any harder.  If they're unwilling to do the same basic work, up to and including using a booster that comes with the expansions, to get a mount, are they really players that we want?  Won't they also want to "skip" all the other "grinds" to get the rewards at the "end"?

[kharmin.7683]

13 hours ago, Emberfoot.6847 said:

Why on earth would people not purchase an entire expac because you gave them access to the most basic mount in it? Not to mention the fact that just to glide you need HoT, and that comes only with PoF now anyways. 

You're kidding, right?  This very forum has plenty of examples of players wanting stuff for free. 

I'm not sure that you understand how marketing works.

[Flasterko.4087]

If they add basic mount I don't think it would break a game, there are worse stuff happening in the game. 

 

What bothers me are mounts on world bosses in core Tyria. If you ask me I would ban mounts there to return that charm of doing them without mounts. For example for people to be not able to wait for Claw of Jormag while mounted.