4th Expansion villain idea, yay or nay...

[Pyriel.4370]

4 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

GW2 doesn't actually have "Resurrection", what we do ingame to other players is more akin to resuscitating.  Aside from the Commander that one specific time in PoF and supposedly Aurene thanks to her taking Joko's power, there are have been no resurrections for a supposedly heal-turned Grenth to mess with, that's why the likes of Eir and Snaff stayed dead.  Allowing bad people to come back of course is a separate issue.

according to the lore Grenth allowed it. In gw1 you had the resurrection signet and many revive oriented spells. With the death animation and the revive function being changed , it doesn’t necessarily remove it from the lore.

 

The defining difference between Grenth and Dhuum is Dhuum not allowing resurrection or undeath. This is still also on the wiki. 

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

26 minutes ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

according to the lore Grenth allowed it. In gw1 you had the resurrection signet and many revive oriented spells. With the death animation and the revive function being changed , it doesn’t necessarily remove it from the lore.

 

The defining difference between Grenth and Dhuum is Dhuum not allowing resurrection or undeath. This is still also on the wiki. 

While this is true, in the narrative we aren't dying when we get defeated. We're getting knocked out. The only time the player dies, for real, is in PoF. In all others its just getting knocked out.

[Pyriel.4370]

17 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

While this is true, in the narrative we aren't dying when we get defeated. We're getting knocked out. The only time the player dies, for real, is in PoF. In all others its just getting knocked out.

Edit: resurrection has stopped since the direct interaction of the human gods. My bad. Still Grenth could pull a whole resurrecting people close to the main cast e.g Eir, Snaff, Jorys sister.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Pyriel.4370
Correction of lore

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

3 hours ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

according to the lore Grenth allowed it. In gw1 you had the resurrection signet and many revive oriented spells. With the death animation and the revive function being changed , it doesn’t necessarily remove it from the lore.

 

The defining difference between Grenth and Dhuum is Dhuum not allowing resurrection or undeath. This is still also on the wiki. 

You're correct, but in GW2 resurrection has canonically ceased being a thing for a long time. They changed the mechanics to enforce this lore because the writers back then didn't want more situations of "oh why didn't we just resurrect that NPC?" that had popped up for NPCs like Rurik, Saidra, and Togo in GW1.
This is why the mechanics are called defeated state and not dead, and why - until the update changed the minimap icons to further differentiate between downed and defeated states, why the prompt always said revive not resurrect (unfortunately that change kind of messed with the mechanics-defining-lore aspect as it got rebranded as "resurrect").
This is still represented with NPCs - when you can revive an NPC, they're not dead, just unconscious. And with a few cases, all story deaths doesn't allow reviving (and those few exceptions are pretty much cases where you shouldn't be capable of reaching the corpse but can by "cheating", and usually cases where the NPC can be defeated earlier in the same story instance but cannot permanently die - they usually vanish the corpse in these cases as well).

Dhuum broke free from his prison, and it was established in late GW1 lifespan, during GW2's development, that if he broke free the rules of life and death would be altered because Dhuum doesn't tolerate undeath or resurrection. It's probably no coincidence that Dhuum breaking free and resurrection magic ceasing to function canonically are in the same rough timeperiod between GW1 and GW2.

All that said, Grenth is always (before EoD) presented as a full neutral figure. In the D&D alignment chart, he can cleanly be placed down as Lawful Neutral. It would be a bizarre character assassination to villainize him - especially to have him go around resurrecting evil figures while forcing good guys to remain dead as originally suggested.
Of course, Balthazar's character assassination was just as weird if not moreso, since based on GW1 lore he can be classified as Chaotic Good, and I'd argue the same even with pre-PoF GW2 lore that put him in a bit darker light (at worst, Chaotic Neutral or True Neutral), and was turned to Neutral Evil.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:37 AM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Humanity had a big "holy war" with itself, and destroyed the planet in the ensuing war. The gods taking the faithful to Tyira(pretty common trope, and could mirror a possible modern religious schism as people learn more about how the gods abandoned them to the Elder Dragons)

The holy war aspect could also raise the possibility that the original homeworld wasn't actually destroyed, but the gods and their followers were driven out. Either way, the possibility remains that the enemy is still out there somewhere.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The holy war aspect could also raise the possibility that the original homeworld wasn't actually destroyed, but the gods and their followers were driven out. Either way, the possibility remains that the enemy is still out there somewhere.

Not personally a fan of either.  Hard to quite express why, I guess the "Holy War" might be a bit to close to IRL, past and present.

[Kalavier.1097]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The holy war aspect could also raise the possibility that the original homeworld wasn't actually destroyed, but the gods and their followers were driven out. Either way, the possibility remains that the enemy is still out there somewhere.

I personally like my headcanon of the previous world getting wrecked by god on god conflict, with the six actively herding humanity off to a safer planet and escaping.

Ties into the fact there is zero history of humanity before they arrived on Tyria.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

5 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The holy war aspect could also raise the possibility that the original homeworld wasn't actually destroyed, but the gods and their followers were driven out. Either way, the possibility remains that the enemy is still out there somewhere.

Possible, but I wouldn't want an "evil humans from another plant invade Tyria" storyline. If we're going to get some invasion from the deep Mists I would rather it be something more generalized to every race, and not just another "big human story".

I haven't minded humans getting so much of the focus in GW2 so far, since its established canon from G1 they had lorded over Cantha, Elona, and large parts of Tyira. But I wouldn't want an entire other planet of humans being out there, and being the winners of a war that drove out the gods, because that really just leads to a "they find out about Tyria and invade it to try to finish the god and wipe out the god believers!" plot, and... ehhh. give me Mist Demons or something.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I personally like my headcanon of the previous world getting wrecked by god on god conflict, with the six actively herding humanity off to a safer planet and escaping.

Ties into the fact there is zero history of humanity before they arrived on Tyria.

I think it if was "god on god", they'd have avoided the Crystal Sea scenario as much as possible. So I'm still in the bandwagon of Utopia's lore being modified for the human homeworld:

A great force once threatened Xotecha, slowly extinguishing the light of the Old Gods, but was quelled by the rising power of their successors.

[Dondarrion.2748]

Could they bring back 'E', we've never really delved into who it really was. Maybe tips and hints along the way was to nudge the heroes in the direction of clearing the path of obstacles and secretly this 'E' could be building up a plan and become the great antagonist once even the Elder Dragons were clear.

 

The only thing I know is that for future story, I want Aurene out of the picture, and Taimi as well, she can aid with some research from her lab, but I don't need backing heroes who always pull tricks out of their kitten to save the entire day, all the time.

[Shivan.9438]

I'd like to see an invasion from the mists.

With the Asura always tinkering around in the Fractals, Kralkatorrik opening rifts to eat magic, and the breaching of the god realm, it could have very well weakened the fabric of reality enough to allow demons and other monsters from the mists to invade Tyria. There could be some ancient evil that was banished there or something woke up from all of the disturbance and is now coming to bring it's business to us.