As a returning player, what I find to be the gw2 problem.

[Linken.6345]

4 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

People would show examples if it wasn't punishable to do so on the forum

It is allowed you just have to edit out names of the people.

[Serperior.6541]

47 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

People would show examples if it wasn't punishable to do so on the forum

But that still dosen't make it a major issue. Hundreds of runs are made in a day if only %10 of it had problems would that be a big issue? only spesific nitpicked screenshots wouldn't prove it and I do fractal dailies everyday last thing i recall that comes close to toxicity was one guy leaving because hfb wasn't able to keep %100 quicness uptime and that was like 1 month ago.

 

%90 of my runs to this day was smooth (and by smooth i mean people not getting toxic), people don't get angry when you join a run and fulfill your role. at max they leave without saying anything. Other guys said lower tiers had more issues.I can't confirm or deny that but i suppose it is because t3 and lower being less likely to have a proper composition which would mean more randomness and chaos going on.

 

Well i don't think you need any comp in t1 and t2 but it would hurt not having any healer in t3 and some spesific fractals in t1 and t2 (like mai trin or siren's reef which depends on your healer's ability to keep you alive)

Edited June 4, 2022 by Serperior.6541

[Shikaru.7618]

On 6/2/2022 at 12:13 PM, NatSL.5819 said:

Toxic elitism.

I'm pretty sad to see that hasn't changed. Doing a nice fractal run, maybe not being optimal, and having people leave unreasonably because "dps isn't high enough" or such stuff. I'm talking not even people leaving while failing, but people leaving because you don't optimally succeed.

 

Tbh I do feel like there should be some kind of report for these things or a leaving penalty of some kind, making it at least a little harder on people who act like that.

 

And to all reading I can only suggest be friendly, be helpful, and not only you're gonna succeed in content but you're also gonna have much more fun.

 

❤️

Leaving because dps isn't high enough isn't even inherently toxic. Context matters. If I was a healer and did 90% of the groups damage I would also leave because "dps isn't high enough" even though the boss died after 20 minutes. No amount of help I give to the rest of the party in this context will make any meaningful improvement short of telling them to completely change their gear, change all their traits, and learn which skills deal damage. Unfortunately gw2 leaves way too much room for the player to mess up their character setups so badly that it's often easier to leave and find a better group.

[Shikaru.7618]

On 6/2/2022 at 12:13 PM, NatSL.5819 said:

Toxic elitism.

I'm pretty sad to see that hasn't changed. Doing a nice fractal run, maybe not being optimal, and having people leave unreasonably because "dps isn't high enough" or such stuff. I'm talking not even people leaving while failing, but people leaving because you don't optimally succeed.

 

Tbh I do feel like there should be some kind of report for these things or a leaving penalty of some kind, making it at least a little harder on people who act like that.

 

And to all reading I can only suggest be friendly, be helpful, and not only you're gonna succeed in content but you're also gonna have much more fun.

 

❤️

Double post delete.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Shikaru.7618
Double post

[Shikaru.7618]

On 6/2/2022 at 12:13 PM, NatSL.5819 said:

Toxic elitism.

I'm pretty sad to see that hasn't changed. Doing a nice fractal run, maybe not being optimal, and having people leave unreasonably because "dps isn't high enough" or such stuff. I'm talking not even people leaving while failing, but people leaving because you don't optimally succeed.

 

Tbh I do feel like there should be some kind of report for these things or a leaving penalty of some kind, making it at least a little harder on people who act like that.

 

And to all reading I can only suggest be friendly, be helpful, and not only you're gonna succeed in content but you're also gonna have much more fun.

 

❤️

Triple post. Delete.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Shikaru.7618

[ASP.8093]

On 6/4/2022 at 9:23 AM, Ombras.2853 said:

That’s exactly my point.

Mind me, I’m not referring to you but generally speaking. A lot of the “you idiot elitist” players  have no idea what their dps is. Which means they didn’t even bother to go to the training golem room once. Which implies that they never ever practiced their rotations. Most of the time, it also means they never even read about the rotation of their class.

If it’s the case, not only you shouldn’t complain, but you should really, really start to commit a bit more into the game mode. Or not. But if you don’t, then your opinion about “elitist jerks” is null.

(3k is abismally low, on the golem as a Dps you should have at the very least 20-25k).

A little bit of time on the golem really is quite useful, because it teaches you a number of things:

• How absurdly strong boons are.

• The value of those "+10% damage when [something happens]" traits, especially when you stack them.

• What your sustained DPS is.

• How much DPS you lose by interrupting attack chains.

And, like, honestly, this isn't just a matter of "learning to play," it's a contextual thing — you don't have perfect boon coverage in open world, your burst damage and AOE ability often matter more than sustained DPS, a lot of traits that grant you some special effect or a lot of extra sustain are extremely strong in open world but unpopular in instanced group play.

And, of course,  a lot of actually good open-world builds get a ton of power from self-boons that end up just being redundant in group play.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 6/2/2022 at 9:13 PM, NatSL.5819 said:

Toxic elitism.

I'm pretty sad to see that hasn't changed. Doing a nice fractal run, maybe not being optimal, and having people leave unreasonably because "dps isn't high enough" or such stuff. I'm talking not even people leaving while failing, but people leaving because you don't optimally succeed.

 

Tbh I do feel like there should be some kind of report for these things or a leaving penalty of some kind, making it at least a little harder on people who act like that.

 

And to all reading I can only suggest be friendly, be helpful, and not only you're gonna succeed in content but you're also gonna have much more fun.

 

❤️

You want to force people to play with bad players? That will only result in even more toxicity and good players evading the lfg and using discord communities instead. Already happens in na.

Some groups are so bad that a single player is doing 70% of the group dps or the healer outdamaging "dps" players. You speak of toxicity but a lot of the more casual players are the most entitled people ever.

The problem which most casuals and even some posters in this thread dont get is that some kills are not group efforts. Sometimes its 1-2 players doing everything. Its not toxic for them to leave at that point but its unbelievable entitled to think that those players should be forced to carry  players who didnt even bother to get a decent build for instanced content.

What you describe is no toxic behaviour at all. Not everyone enjoys a 2h fractal run and having to hardcarry 3 lazy peepos through fractals. Kicking players at the end of a fractal is toxic. Insulting for minor mistakes is but just leaving isnt.

[Parpage.9867]

On 6/2/2022 at 9:13 PM, NatSL.5819 said:

Toxic elitism.

I'm pretty sad to see that hasn't changed. Doing a nice fractal run, maybe not being optimal, and having people leave unreasonably because "dps isn't high enough" or such stuff. I'm talking not even people leaving while failing, but people leaving because you don't optimally succeed.

 

Tbh I do feel like there should be some kind of report for these things or a leaving penalty of some kind, making it at least a little harder on people who act like that.

 

And to all reading I can only suggest be friendly, be helpful, and not only you're gonna succeed in content but you're also gonna have much more fun.

 

❤️

Have you considered that maybe you're actually the problem and perhaps you need to practice your rotation? Sure being rude to people in a game is childish, but expecting to get carried because people don't pull their weight it's also frustrating, personally i do not enjoy taking ages to clear but you do you. A penalty for leaving is ridiculous, if we take 1:30h to clear simple content like fractals everyone has the right to ditch and find a better party

[Asum.4960]

In thousands of hours of Fractals over almost a decade of playing, the vast majority of which was pugging, I just don't really see it. 

Yes, there always are toxic players now and then (although vastly overstated), but very rarely are those the "elitists" by any means. 

 

Especially when it comes to unreasonable complaints about DPS, that's an extremely rare occurrence in my experience, with people generally being actually surprisingly lenient in that regard. As long as everybody does around 50% of the expected DPS for their role, I've rarely ever seen anyone speak up, let alone complain in a toxic manner (accepted numbers and responses may vary depending on advertised group ofc, joining a hardcore speedrunning group at 50% expected pugging performance might rightfully not go well). 

Even if one player does as little as ~30% of the expected DPS, they are generally silently carried in my experience, as long as everybody else is performing well enough to do so in a reasonable time.

 

The problem is when half of the group does 10-30% of the DPS expected, and it becomes clear while the group may still succeed through most of the content (since it's pretty hard to actually downright fail), it will be an absolute drag - and especially players who do daily clears likely don't have the patience for 2h+ runs, rather than 30-45 minutes, just to carry some different silent strangers again and again. 

 

To in that case leave in search for another group with more aligned levels of experience and effort put in is far from both toxic and elitism in my eyes. Nobody likes to feel like they are being taken advantage of.

I agree that there is never an excuse to be an kitten about it though.

 

TL;DR:

To get called out for (lack of) DPS in GW2, in my experience, generally takes a horrendous performance, well below the <10k line that can easily be achieved by even just auto attacking (e.g. 3k DPS players taking a DPS slot). Expecting other players to contribute the absolute bare minimum imo is neither toxic nor elitist. 

If you keep having this experience, you might want to visit the Aerodrome or get an extremely useful tool for self-improvement in ArcDPS to check and compare your own performance.

 

There is a massive gap between downright failing and playing optimally in GW2, players likely aren't unreasonably expecting the latter just because they are unhappy about their group barely being above the former.

[Ombras.2853]

Good things we see a lot of perplexed emotes on reasonable posts. Seems like people *want* to get carried 😄

[IndigoSundown.5419]

My experiences w/ pick-ups in strikes has been good, overall.  But then, there was the one guy who left because there was no one doing alacrity -- in Shiverpeaks Pass. 😝

[SexyMofo.8923]

Some people just have fun being bad and taking forever to kill a boss. That’s mental.  Play to win, don’t play to not lose.   Most people can’t even stack mid in the dragon bash arena so everyone can just cleave all the mobs down. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by SexyMofo.8923

[Bakeneko.5826]

1 hour ago, SexyMofo.8923 said:

Some people just have fun being bad and taking forever to kill a boss. That’s mental.  Play to win, don’t play to not lose.   Most people can’t even stack mid in the dragon bash arena so everyone can just cleave all the mobs down. 

Did you just get overly upset because of PvE event?

[Firebeard.1746]

On 6/2/2022 at 12:13 PM, NatSL.5819 said:

Toxic elitism.

I'm pretty sad to see that hasn't changed. Doing a nice fractal run, maybe not being optimal, and having people leave unreasonably because "dps isn't high enough" or such stuff. I'm talking not even people leaving while failing, but people leaving because you don't optimally succeed.

 

Tbh I do feel like there should be some kind of report for these things or a leaving penalty of some kind, making it at least a little harder on people who act like that.

 

And to all reading I can only suggest be friendly, be helpful, and not only you're gonna succeed in content but you're also gonna have much more fun.

 

❤️

Well when you're not getting tons of content all the time, it turns into people just doing it for reward and when that happens, people want you to be as efficient as possible and they can get pretty toxic. Unfortunately, anet didn't make a lot of build diversity as far as efficient play goes and for some players, those glass cannon builds aren't palatable. There's two sides to this coin and I'm sorry it sucks. The bright side though, is if you do learn to play the metas, your groups clear that much faster and there's less drama, but i see how losing player choice hurts. 

[Shikaru.7618]

38 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Well when you're not getting tons of content all the time, it turns into people just doing it for reward and when that happens, people want you to be as efficient as possible and they can get pretty toxic. Unfortunately, anet didn't make a lot of build diversity as far as efficient play goes and for some players, those glass cannon builds aren't palatable. There's two sides to this coin and I'm sorry it sucks. The bright side though, is if you do learn to play the metas, your groups clear that much faster and there's less drama, but i see how losing player choice hurts. 

What builds exactly do you wish were efficient but not glass cannon? Boon supports and healers already exist in the meta. The instanced content in this game is designed around not taking any damage if you execute boss mechanics correctly so toughness and vitality are essentially dump stats for anyone that grasp this concept. 

[Firebeard.1746]

1 hour ago, Shikaru.7618 said:

The instanced content in this game is designed around not taking any damage if you execute boss mechanics correctly so toughness and vitality are essentially dump stats for anyone that grasp this concept. 

They've been nerfing this lately, HB doesn't give nearly as much Aegis as it used to. I don't think anet actually likes this given those nerfs. 

And it's not so much that I have an issue now, I've just accepted I need to play the metas, but there were builds I found "fun" that no one likes: like heal tempest, double GS mirage, flamethrower scrapper, etc. Those aren't high-performing in anything they do really but are quite durable. I imagine OP is running similar builds and getting flack for it. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

They've been nerfing this lately, HB doesn't give nearly as much Aegis as it used to. I don't think anet actually likes this given those nerfs. 

And it's not so much that I have an issue now, I've just accepted I need to play the metas, but there were builds I found "fun" that no one likes: like heal tempest, double GS mirage, flamethrower scrapper, etc. Those aren't high-performing in anything they do really but are quite durable. I imagine OP is running similar builds and getting flack for it. 

You dont need aegis to mitigate all damage when you execute mechanics tho.

You only need it if you intentionaly dont execute said mechanics.

[Firebeard.1746]

37 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You dont need aegis to mitigate all damage when you execute mechanics tho.

You only need it if you intentionaly dont execute said mechanics.

Well I learned t4s during HB kitten meta. Mind sharing links? Haven't really touched them since EoD so I haven't felt the impact of the nerf. 

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Well I learned t4s during HB kitten meta. Mind sharing links? Haven't really touched them since EoD so I haven't felt the impact of the nerf. 

Links on how to avoid the damage by not standing in or dodging crap?

[Firebeard.1746]

2 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Links on how to avoid the damage by not standing in or dodging crap?

Can you link me a video of you never taking damage, even once in any sort of fractal? Actually, let's do urban battleground. 

[Linken.6345]

27 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Can you link me a video of you never taking damage, even once in any sort of fractal? Actually, let's do urban battleground. 

Oh were did I claim I could do this? 

But urban is one of the easier ones since the boss tells are quite few.

Not that he get to use alot of them in a proper team tho.

You do know we are talking about mechanics that the bosses do and not the trash mobs up to the boss right?

[Firebeard.1746]

 

5 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Oh were did I claim I could do this? 

5 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

You dont need aegis to mitigate all damage when you execute mechanics tho

 

[Linken.6345]

34 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

 

 

Since when is this is possible the same as I can do this?

 

If this player would have been in a 5 man party and executed bomb mechanic he would have been fine without aegis.

But since he was solo and on a time crunch he ignored and ate them instead.

Edit

Lord hizen is extremly good but decent players can do what he do as a team no problem.

Edit2

Looked further and saw he did not have the cc for after glowing ball phases and ate those aswell.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Linken.6345

[Labjax.2465]

Hate to say it, but games like this implicitly encourage elitism, even while they explicitly tell people to be nice. When the rewards revolve around getting rare, prestigious items you can show off to other players, some people who are already in an insecure state are going to get too into living that out in the game and will start blaming other players at the drop of a hat when their goals are delayed. There's enough game in this game beyond the rewards themselves that some people are able to just enjoy it and not care much, win or lose, but then again, most OW content is near guaranteed win, so people are used to winning too. It would be interesting to see how many start blaming other people if that wasn't the case. Well... interesting as in informative, probably wouldn't be pretty. Actually, come to think of it, I guess EoD end meta is probably a microcosm of what it would look like and that situation was (still is?) ugly.

Anyway, bottom line is, players can only do so much to oppose this kind of attitude. Games like these sell stuff in large part on the idea of people getting to feel more special/unique and even in an older raiding game without a store, you could still see similar in the form of people wanting to be "one of the best" of the raiders. Some of it's probably just a reflection of the kind of world the designers grow up in and what they view as normal, but whatever the reason in each case, such design causes problems.

[Firebeard.1746]

29 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Since when is this is possible the same as I can do this?

 

If this player would have been in a 5 man party and executed bomb mechanic he would have been fine without aegis.

But since he was solo and on a time crunch he ignored and ate them instead.

Edit

Lord hizen is extremly good but decent players can do what he do as a team no problem.

Edit2

Looked further and saw he did not have the cc for after glowing ball phases and ate those aswell.

Okay so it's not quite you described, but still an interesting video. Thank you!

EDIT2: He's also totally taking damage from adds. His DPS is crap, there's periods he's doing less thank 10k in full viper's. I assume he's taking survivability traits that normal players wouldn't appreciate.

Basically I'm tired of people saying "Just dodge" and the encounters are far more complicated than that (nor are there usually enough dodges to get out of everything). 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Firebeard.1746