Why is harbinger shroud reducing damage?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

12 hours ago, Zero.3871 said:

 

5. i didnt attacked you, i just said you should bring in facts and not fantasy.

You are actually trying to attack his correct information from that particular response.

I mean argue w/e you want but don't argue against things that are actually correct.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sigmoid.7082]

Can I ask, if this thread wasn't about death magic the whole time and not misinformation about harb shroud having an innate damage reduction, how exactly did Anet sneak in corruptors fervor?

 

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by Sigmoid.7082

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

3 hours ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

Can I ask, if this thread was about death magic the whole time and not misinformation about harb shroud having an innate damage reduction, how exactly did Anet sneak in corruptors fervor?

 

 

Death line is just for vs condi, mainly.

It's these: Corrosive Poison Cloud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) - Weakening Shroud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) where the power damage mitigation comes from.

When more people figure out to run Wizard amulet for the precision for Weakening Shroud weak spam, we'll be hearing a lot more complaint in this forum about it.

If you run Wizard for prec on Harb with Weak Shroud, you actually can't take damage from power based builds unless you allow it to happen.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sigmoid.7082]

1 minute ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Death line is just for vs condi, mainly.

It's these: Corrosive Poison Cloud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) - Weakening Shroud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) where the power damage mitigation comes from.

When more people figure out to run Wizard amulet for the precision for Weakening Shroud weak spam, we'll be hearing a lot more complaint in this forum about it.

My bad I meant to write wasn't instead of was. Not sure if your reply is applicable to what I meant to ask which was:

 

Can I ask, if this thread wasn't about death magic the whole time and not misinformation about harb shroud having an innate damage reduction, how exactly did Anet sneak in corruptors fervor?

[Crab Fear.8623]

3 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

My bad I meant to write wasn't instead of was. Not sure if your reply is applicable to what I meant to ask which was:

 

Can I ask, if this thread wasn't about death magic the whole time and not misinformation about harb shroud having an innate damage reduction, how exactly did Anet sneak in corruptors fervor?

Hyper synergy and easement of utilizing that versus any other necro.

 

Wording:

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Harbinger_Shroud

 

They are not vulnerable are they?

They also can receive healing...

 

That is a sneak.

[Sigmoid.7082]

55 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

Hyper synergy and easement of utilizing that versus any other necro.

 

But then isn't this also the case with Reaper + Spite and Scourge + Blood Magic?

 

 

Quote

 

Wording:

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Harbinger_Shroud

 

They are not vulnerable are they?

They also can receive healing...

 

I think you may be being pedantic over the wording here. Because technically, and what I believe Anet was going for wording wise here, compared to the other shrouds it is vulnerable to attack since all the others provide some way of shielding your health from the incoming damage. Core and Reaper through the health sponge nature of their shrouds and Scourge with the large amount of barrier .  Its there way of letting people know its different to Death Shroud, which has the specific wording "Assume a spectral form and gain new skills, turning your life force into health.". Vulnerable to attack is much shorter and sweeter than saying  "This ability does not turn your life force into health". Literally one says gain new skills and cover your health the other says gain new skills and not cover health.

 

About the healing aspec. If damage goes through why shouldn't healing? Another genuine question. Is it a sneak that you can't be healed in base shroud then?

 

Quote

That is a sneak.

None of this is a sneak since none of this was under the table nor came out of nowhere. We've known this from the word go about Harbinger. 

 

If you had come out and said "Harb synergises to much with Death Magic" or "Harb is too durable for the sustain it can get"  then there would be fewer people being standoffish and being pedantic over the wording you have chosen (again something you're also doing to try and prove a point). Since if you truly weren't trying to spread misinformation and be sensational you wouldn't use "Why is harbinger shroud reducing damage?" as the title because, at its base, not only are you not specifically talking about the shroud itself, which we know has no innate damage reduction, your talking about something, Corruptors Fervor, that can be taken advantage off completely outside of shroud to, near enough, its fullest; The title doesn't fit the argumentation and discussion points unless trying to specifically talk about something that's not true. 

 

Harb is OP, everyone knows this. Its due some tuning(nerfs before more pedantism is used around my word of choice) but going this way about the discussion isn't the way. Comes across as disingenuous.  

 

There's a lot to talk about when it comes to Harb and its balance. I mean you're right about it synergizing to well with death magic among other thing but because of how this all is its comes across as "Just another Crab Fear Thread..."

 

Anyway, despite not disagreeing with the general premise that harb is op, ready to be written off as just another "Necro...Harbinger main spotted."

Edited June 4, 2022 by Sigmoid.7082

[Crab Fear.8623]

15 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

 

But then isn't this also the case with Reaper + Spite and Scourge + Blood Magic?

 

 

 

I think you may be being pedantic over the wording here. Because technically, and what I believe Anet was going for wording wise here, compared to the other shrouds it is vulnerable to attack since all the others provide some way of shielding your health from the incoming damage. Core and Reaper through the health sponge nature of their shrouds and Scourge with the large amount of barrier .  Its there way of letting people know its different to Death Shroud, which has the specific wording "Assume a spectral form and gain new skills, turning your life force into health.". Vulnerable to attack is much shorter and sweeter than saying  "This ability does not turn your life force into health". Literally one says gain new skills and cover your health the other says gain new skills and not cover health.

 

About the healing aspec. If damage goes through why shouldn't healing? Another genuine question. Is it a sneak that you can't be healed in base shroud then?

 

None of this is a sneak since none of this was under the table nor came out of nowhere. We've known this from the word go about Harbinger. 

 

If you had come out and said "Harb synergises to much with Death Magic" or "Harb is too durable for the sustain it can get"  then there would be fewer people being standoffish and being pedantic over the wording you have chosen (again something you're also doing to try and prove a point). Since if you truly weren't trying to spread misinformation and be sensational you wouldn't use "Why is harbinger shroud reducing damage?" as the title because, at its base, not only are you not specifically talking about the shroud itself, which we know has no innate damage reduction, your talking about something, Corruptors Fervor, that can be taken advantage off completely outside of shroud to, near enough, its fullest; The title doesn't fit the argumentation and discussion points unless trying to specifically talk about something that's not true. 

 

Harb is OP, everyone knows this. Its due some tuning(nerfs before more pedantism is used around my word of choice) but going this way about the discussion isn't the way. Comes across as disingenuous.  

 

There's a lot to talk about when it comes to Harb and its balance. I mean you're right about it synergizing to well with death magic among other thing but because of how this all is its comes across as "Just another Crab Fear Thread..."

 

Anyway, despite not disagreeing with the general premise that harb is op, ready to be written off as just another "Necro...Harbinger main spotted."

 

Your interpretation of my title or meanings or goals are for you, but they won't be fact.

I see vulnerable to attack and yet they ultra synergize and even gain the benefit faster when in shroud and gain healing.

Why is Harbinger Shroud reducing damage?

My interpretation is why they are in shroud, they should be vulnerable by the wording, and not privy to heal nor damage reduction.

They are tanky as hell, in addition to pressure, and better mobility than the other necros.

The class is dominant because of this combo.

 

Crab Fear threads are mostly accurate, and from my own experience are on point with changes.

You want to label me as a loon, but I'm often right.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

because of how this all is its comes across as "Just another Crab Fear Thread..."

People tend to drop such discrediting responses & comments when other forum users post highly accurate statements and/or assessments. Honestly they commit logical fallacy like this because they have no real argument vs. a highly accurate statement and/or assessment and don't know what else to do.

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

Crab Fear threads are mostly accurate, and from my own experience are on point with changes.

You want to label me as a loon, but I'm often right.

Agreed.

You can even quote and leave links to pages directly off the wiki, full of 100% inarguably correct information, and some goon squad will still put as many confused faces as they can on your thread and post responses to make it look like you don't know what you're talking about.

Truth is, defendants feel the need to attack threads that have the potential to get more views than top streamer streams.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

Why is Harbinger Shroud reducing damage?

It isn't, things around harbinger shroud does.

This whole thread is basically about complaining that an e-spec can benefit from core's goodies.

 

[myun.6395]

On 6/3/2022 at 9:41 AM, Bazsi.2734 said:

Yeah harbringer is overtuned and all that... but the 33% damage reduction on harb-shroud is fake news. I even went and tested it just to be sure it's not bugged.

Are you 100% sure? 

Might be placebo effect, but it feels they tank so much damage while in shroud than in normal. 

Also considering not having weakness of course.

[chronometria.3708]

45 minutes ago, myun.6395 said:

Are you 100% sure? 

Might be placebo effect, but it feels they tank so much damage while in shroud than in normal. 

Also considering not having weakness of course.

I was fighting one today who just made attacks against them vanish when in shroud. Hits on them were just "gone" as if they never happened. Really not sure what that was.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

10 hours ago, chronometria.3708 said:

I was fighting one today who just made attacks against them vanish when in shroud. Hits on them were just "gone" as if they never happened. Really not sure what that was.

Guys

Just read what all of this does:

1. Weakening Shroud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
2. Weakness - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
3. Armored Shroud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
4. Shrouded Removal - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
5. Dark Defiance - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
6. Beyond the Veil - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
7. Corrupter's Fervor - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
8. Superior Rune of Orr - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) or if in wvw -> Superior Rune of Antitoxin - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

It is not difficult to figure out why it becomes a super tank while in shroud. It is virtually immune to condi damage, it pulses nearly permanent protection uptime, it gets +300 toughness stack, and it spams weakness on you every time it crits. When it goes into shroud, the effects of all those traits become seriously amplified.

Once it is able to get aggressive and begin cycling all of these traits, it can snowball you in a 1v1 situation while being nearly invulnerable. The best way to deal with the Harbinger is to disengage it long enough to let all those traits end their cycle, and then re-engage it once the carapace stacks and everything else bottom out and reset. Reproach it and don't get hit. You'll have about 5 seconds to deal damage and put it into downed-state before it becomes an adamantine chad god again.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[KrHome.1920]

5 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Guys

Just read what all of this does:

1. Weakening Shroud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
2. Weakness - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
3. Armored Shroud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
4. Shrouded Removal - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
5. Dark Defiance - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
6. Beyond the Veil - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
7. Corrupter's Fervor - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
8. Superior Rune of Orr - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) or if in wvw -> Superior Rune of Antitoxin - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

It is not difficult to figure out why it becomes a super tank while in shroud. It is virtually immune to condi damage, it pulses nearly permanent protection uptime, it gets +300 toughness stack, and it spams weakness on you every time it crits. When it goes into shroud, the effects of all those traits become seriously amplified.

Once it is able to get aggressive and begin cycling all of these traits, it can snowball you in a 1v1 situation while being nearly invulnerable. The best way to deal with the Harbinger is to disengage it long enough to let all those traits end their cycle, and then re-engage it once the carapace stacks and everything else bottom out and reset. Reproach it and don't get hit. You'll have about 5 seconds to deal damage and put it into downed-state before it becomes an adamantine chad god again.

And it's still a freekill for your longbow soulbeast. Isn't that funny? Harbinger is hardcountered by a lot of builds. What makes it strong currently is its synergy with willbender and specter. This synergy has to be be deleted, but not the spec hardnerfed.

The only place where harbinger is inherently broken is WvW, because there all the extra sustain from death magic and the healing power boosted healing skill, regeneration and leeching become a problem when celestial gear is used.

In unorganized PvP machtes this is just another noob farm build.

Edited June 5, 2022 by KrHome.1920

[Bale.3851]

19 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

People tend to drop such discrediting responses & comments when other forum users post highly accurate statements and/or assessments. Honestly they commit logical fallacy like this because they have no real argument vs. a highly accurate statement and/or assessment and don't know what else to do.

 

But he had real arguments. The initiate question of the thread is "why is harbinger shroud reducing dmg?". Answer: it isnt. Multiple players said so / proved it. Case closed. After this a harbinger is op because of... thread began but that isnt what the thread title says. Its misleading and we cant expect any real progression this way. So to say crabfear is highly accurate is in this case highly inaccurate.

 

Im not questioning if harbinger is op in the current meta. My point is that it would better to open a new thread and take the basis you already worked out here and open a new thread to pin point a real solution. Like if the synergy with death magic and harbinger is to high because protection is permanent up in fights add a 5sec or 10 sec icd and so on. All of this for the possibility that a dev stumbles in here and acutally read this thread. So he would find well formulated feedback that is an acutal help for him. I guess thats the aim at leat from my point of view.

 

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Guys

Just read what all of this does:

1. Weakening Shroud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
2. Weakness - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
3. Armored Shroud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
4. Shrouded Removal - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
5. Dark Defiance - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
6. Beyond the Veil - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
7. Corrupter's Fervor - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
8. Superior Rune of Orr - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) or if in wvw -> Superior Rune of Antitoxin - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

It is not difficult to figure out why it becomes a super tank while in shroud. It is virtually immune to condi damage, it pulses nearly permanent protection uptime, it gets +300 toughness stack, and it spams weakness on you every time it crits. When it goes into shroud, the effects of all those traits become seriously amplified.

 

 

Btw we all have to remember that crabfear is the guy who talks about himself in 3rd person and calls his own threads "mostly accurate" and rates his own experience with "on point with changes". Let that sink in. He may mixed up the title of this thread and the discussion went the wrong way but psycologically this is gold. I love this sub forum. ❤️

 

21 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

Crab Fear threads are mostly accurate, and from my own experience are on point with changes.

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Bale.3851

[SlayerXX.7138]

17 hours ago, chronometria.3708 said:

I was fighting one today who just made attacks against them vanish when in shroud. Hits on them were just "gone" as if they never happened. Really not sure what that was.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrosive_Poison_Cloud projektile hate. A core necro thing, obviously more annoying if an overpowered spec does it. I guess it should show you a block, probably a bug.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

*cough* 36.7k HP *cough*

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

And it's still a freekill for your longbow soulbeast.

Only if you can sneak up, land the first strike, and are versed enough in the ways to finish the kill in the first burst without getting touched by weakness, before the Harbinger begins to cycle. If it survives and maintains close range, it will win and will win easily.

Its only weakness is getting ganked hard with A LOT of power DPS before it begins its carapace/weakness cycle. All it has to do is have enough time to react to a combat engagement to begin landing the weakness and cycling carapace, and it can recover from any engagement and win.

I've actually been playing a lot of Harbinger lately. The only real counters it has are:

1. 1v1 oriented Ele builds. These are a problem for Harb. They have too much anti projectile, too much stability, too many CCs to lock you up, too much condi cleanse. They counter Harb for the same reasons Ele counters Ranger.
2. THIEVES All Thieve builds. This is the one class archetype that can successfully engage the Harb without engaging it. A good Thief can get in and out landing strikes and essentially avoid allowing the Harbinger to begin cycling carapace/weakness. With other classes they have to stand there and take hits from the Harb which allows it to keep them perma weakened and to benefit all its carapace/prot. But just a simple general DP Daredevil can get in and out and avoid having weakness on himself, avoid hits from the Harb, and deal damage to the Harb without condis so it can't cleanse to get the carapace. Thieves are imo so far the hardest counter that Harb has actually. Good Thief players are at least. Good Thieves end up dealing heavier damage to the Harb than anything else because they prevent that cycling. Even a Power Herald has to get repeatedly hit in the face with weakness and ends up dealing no damage to the Harb. If you see what I mean here. Also important to note that the Harb, unlike Core Necro, has no reveal. The Harb also unlike Necro Reaper Scourge, does not have large AoE cleave damage that can be thrown around blindly with no targeting to hit the Thief. A Harbinger pistol/shroud actually needs a target to deal damage at all. It often feels like the only thing you can hit good Thieves with is Staff. This = good Thief just walks all over Harbinger and there isn't much the Harbinger can do about it.
3. Mesmers. Not quite as bad as a good Thief, but it gives Harb a rough time for the exact same reasons as the Thief. The constant stealth reposition play and forced detargeting is a problem for Harbinger because everything the Harb has that actually deals damage requires a direct target. And this isn't to mention the plethora of reflects and all the other hoo-ha that Mesmers have. Signet Of Humility is also a death sentence for Harb because if the Mes is wise and waits to use it when the Harb has a lot of blight to reduce health, when he goes into Moa the blight stays, the carapace quickly drops from 30 to 29, it loses prot, it can't weaken you, and it has greatly reduced health pool. If it gets turned into Moa with high blight stack, it will die from any bursty pressure almost immediately. Also want to point out that Power Shattering is far more suitable to kill the Harb than condi setups. One of the bigger reasons is because Power Shatter builds don't just spam clones to spam clones like condi setups, which allows the Harb to begin cycling. Power Shatters setup for the gank and they don't really give a lot of room for the Harb to cycle. If they land that Moa, its game over. You can't even use Flesh Wurm in Moa lol.

Outside of those 3 things ^ I'm finding winning 1v1s on Harb exceedingly easy to do, even vs. Rangers. You spam so much weakness vs. any Power Ranger variant, all you have to do is stay aggressive and you will out DPS the Ranger before it out DPS's you. And if you bring CPC well GG for the Ranger. Against condi Ranger variants it's just lol. They can't do anything to Harb as long as the Harb isn't AFK.

Harbinger is easily the hardest Necro spec for Rangers to deal with. This is due to: Weakness spam, CPC, Very high pressure condi attrition that applies condis much more quickly than a Ranger can cleanse, and the Harbinger's newfound ability to actually gap close to the Ranger while evading and landing CCs on it nonetheless.

 

2 hours ago, Bale.3851 said:

But he had real arguments. The initiate question of the thread is "why is harbinger shroud reducing dmg?". Answer: it isnt. Multiple players said so / proved it. Case closed. After this a harbinger is op because of... thread began but that isnt what the thread title says. Its misleading and we cant expect any real progression this way. So to say crabfear is highly accurate is in this case highly inaccurate.

I wasn't talking about the OP post. I was talking about the very specific response that the one guy was trying to act like the information was inaccurate so he could win an argument.

Crab posted a bunch of accurate information in the one particular response and then the person tried to act like none of it was accurate and that it was all opinion.

It's expected to criticize someone's statements if they are inaccurate, not well explained, or just debatabel in general, but give credit where credit is due. Don't point at a bunch of information that is plainly listed in the wiki and say it isn't accurate. That's just committing logical fallacy and hypocritizing the purpose behind correcting someone to begin with.

At least try to keep it classy.

[Crab Fear.8623]

3 hours ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

But he had real arguments. The initiate question of the thread is "why is harbinger shroud reducing dmg?". Answer: it isnt. Multiple players said so / proved it. Case closed. After this a harbinger is op because of... thread began but that isnt what the thread title says. Its misleading and we cant expect any real progression this way. So to say crabfear is highly accurate is in this case highly inaccurate.

 

Im not questioning if harbinger is op in the current meta. My point is that it would better to open a new thread and take the basis you already worked out here and open a new thread to pin point a real solution. Like if the synergy with death magic and harbinger is to high because protection is permanent up in fights add a 5sec or 10 sec icd and so on. All of this for the possibility that a dev stumbles in here and acutally read this thread. So he would find well formulated feedback that is an acutal help for him. I guess thats the aim at leat from my point of view.

 

 

 

Btw we all have to remember that crabfear is the guy who talks about himself in 3rd person and calls his own threads "mostly accurate" and rates his own experience with "on point with changes". Let that sink in. He may mixed up the title of this thread and the discussion went the wrong way but psycologically this is gold. I love this sub forum. ❤️

 

 

 

Is damage reduced in any way while harbinger shroud is active?

 Any way, yes or no?

 

Oh, and BTW, when referring to thread titled "Crab Fear thread", how they were described by the person I was referring to, isn't referring to "myself" in 3rd person.

I'm referring to the threads, not myself, in the way the other person called them.

Crab Fear threads, the most accurate threads around.

lmao

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Crab Fear.8623

[Bale.3851]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I wasn't talking about the OP post. I was talking about the very specific response that the one guy was trying to act like the information was inaccurate so he could win an argument.

Crab posted a bunch of accurate information in the one particular response and then the person tried to act like none of it was accurate and that it was all opinion.

It's expected to criticize someone's statements if they are inaccurate, not well explained, or just debatabel in general, but give credit where credit is due. Don't point at a bunch of information that is plainly listed in the wiki and say it isn't accurate. That's just committing logical fallacy and hypocritizing the purpose behind correcting someone to begin with.

At least try to keep it classy.

 

I could say the same about you. Im not denying the role of harbinger in SPVP. Im just critizing your way of argumenting. Its not propper. You keep on generalizing. Please point out in what way crab fear is correct and in comparision to whom? I mean sure he got the wiki right. Like not everyone can copy pasta a wiki lol. But in what way is shroud reducing dmg by ITSELF like the title claims?

 

I guess you are talking about the statements of @Zero.3871.  Even though i dont share his opinion his argumentation isnt objectively wrong. What excatly about his statements is wrong and a logical fallacy? I mean sure he got the hp thing wrong. But thats not a major fail you would call a logical fallacy.

 

On 6/4/2022 at 1:15 AM, Zero.3871 said:

1. wrong accusation: you claimed: shroud has dmg reduction.

you already realised its not SHROUD, its a trait. look at you thread title. there is the false accusation.

2. wrong accusation - 35k hp: harbinger doenst have 35k health even if you take max vitality amulett, vitality rune and every trait (includes soul reaping and harbinger traitline) that gives you vitality.

3. wrong accusation - free unremvoal regen: regen comes from taking blood magic on hit effect (can be blocked, dodges, countered by invis,...) + regeneration buff ( can be removed by every class) + blight heal (need to get stacked and only scales with stack number that makes harbinger vulnerable to birst attacks) -> everything has counter or trade off

btw. when i try to built a build on harb that is including above mentioned traitlines i need to pick at least 4 traitlines with dm, bm, sr and harbinger (thats impossible)

4. wrong accusation - mobility like thief: moblity-spells on harbinger 

- shroud 3: 600 range on 10 sec cd -->  offers: 60 range/second

- shroud 4: 600 range on 18 sec cd --> offers 33,3 range/second

- flesh worm 1200 range on 40 sec cd --> offers 30 range/second

- spectral walk unrealiable since no mobilityon first activation: you need to travel some distance first before reactivating

 

 

Im pushing this because there are so many posts which are basically just rants. And rants doesnt help. If you really want progression in communication with the devs and improve this game we should keep this forum helpful to them. Again: Well formulated critique, not random phrases with generalization after generalization and debates that are acutally constructive. Like is harbinger the problem by itself or the interaction of harbinger with core necro traitlines and so on. Actual, informed debates with solutions. And not random guys screaming at each other so that one can say "im right, i won" in the end. This doesnt help the game nor us.

[Bale.3851]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

Is damage reduced in any way while harbinger shroud is active?

 Any way, yes or no?

 

No. What you are talking about (carapace) is a trait. If death magic isnt picked you get no carapace. So no dmg reduction if you take lets say blood magic. I guess 3 people already told you so but you refuse to listen.

 

Sure it doesnt change the fact that harbinger is strong but its important to find the root of the problem. Is the problem harbinger by itself or its interaction with a specific trailine? We can just find a solution if we can name the problem. So in some way you helped to find a solution by naming a problem witch is the death traitline. The big question is now what would be a propper solution. I would suggest a interal cd on carapace (1 sec) and pulsing protections (5 sec) which nerfs the condispiting harbinger but leaves core necro intact. This would drasically reduce the uptime of protection on harbinger. It would be important to test if you could even reach the carapace threshold for protection. But overall its a fast and easy fix.

 

 

[Crab Fear.8623]

5 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

No. What you are talking about (carapace) is a trait. If death magic isnt picked you get no carapace. So no dmg reduction if you take lets say blood magic. I guess 3 people already told you so but you refuse to listen.

 

Sure it doesnt change the fact that harbinger is strong but its important to find the root of the problem. Is the problem harbinger by itself or its interaction with a specific trailine? We can just find a solution if we can name the problem. So in some way you helped to find a solution by naming a problem witch is the death traitline. The big question is now what would be a propper solution. I would suggest a interal cd on carapace (1 sec) and pulsing protections (5 sec) which nerfs the condispiting harbinger but leaves core necro intact. This would drasically reduce the uptime of protection on harbinger. It would be important to test if you could even reach the carapace threshold for protection. But overall its a fast and easy fix.

 

 

No, im not refusing to listen.

The wording of the shroud tells me that it shouldnt inherit this.

You side is refusing to hear this.

 

 

And, you are right, death magic is very strong, and it needs some changes overall.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Crab Fear.8623

[Sigmoid.7082]

50 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

The wording of the shroud tells me that it shouldnt inherit this.

You side is refusing to hear this.

 

Your subjective interpretation of the use of vulnerable doesn't make it an objective fact that it shouldn't benefit from something. 

 

My interpretation is that the use of vulnerable means it doesn't shield your health.

 

Who is correct? You because you say so? Since that's your argument. 

[Crab Fear.8623]

6 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

Your subjective interpretation of the use of vulnerable doesn't make it an objective fact that it shouldn't benefit from something. 

 

My interpretation is that the use of vulnerable means it doesn't shield your health.

 

Who is correct? You because you say so? Since that's your argument. 

I asked the question, why.

No one said anything is a fact, but the facts that are indeed facts.

You and others are spinning this to be my competence or my assertion as being crazy or something else.

 

What I have inadvertently accomplished was getting others to analyze the build and realize just how tanky it really is.

Regardless if the devs action or not, I want to thank every necro   harbinger main for bumping this thread so that enough people saw it.

 

 

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

Just now, Crab Fear.8623 said:

I asked the question, why.

No one said anything is a fact, but the facts that are indeed facts.

You and others are spinning this to be my competence or my assertion as being crazy or something else.

 

What I have inadvertently accomplished was getting others to analyze the build and realize just how tanky it really is.

Regardless if the devs action or not, I want to thank every necro   harbinger main for bumping this thread so that enough people saw it.

 

 

 

Nobody is saying you are wrong or crazy to try and subvert your observation that harb is op. In fact near enough everyone agrees. It's your pedantism and method of argumentation that people disagree with. 

 

You are literally losing people at "I read the word vulnerable and I take that as they should t benefit from certain traits. Because the word". 

 

If you had clearly gone on about what you actually we're on about, death magic, directly and clearly from the begining this would have been a more productive thread but alas, here we are. 

[Infinity.2876]

7 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

And it's still a freekill for your longbow soulbeast. Isn't that funny? Harbinger is hardcountered by a lot of builds. What makes it strong currently is its synergy with willbender and specter. This synergy has to be be deleted, but not the spec hardnerfed.

The only place where harbinger is inherently broken is WvW, because there all the extra sustain from death magic and the healing power boosted healing skill, regeneration and leeching become a problem when celestial gear is used.

In unorganized PvP machtes this is just another noob farm build.

It doesn't take them long to get into pistol range.

Wait until they pop spectral walk and run at you.

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Infinity.2876