If Warrior ever does become competitive again...

[Mungrul.9358]

...ANet need to resist the inevitable calls to nerf it.

There's a philosophical problem with GW2 Warrior that is deeply embedded in the development team and the community, and that is the belief that Warrior is the basic profession.

So when people are beaten by what they perceive to be the "Basic" profession, they will howl and cry and throw their toys out of the pram.

How do we know this?

 

Years of observational evidence.

 

Instead of learning to counter Warriors over the years and become better players, people have screamed and screamed for the profession to be nerfed instead, because surely it's wrong that they can be beaten by the basic profession.

 

So ANet, no matter what your upcoming Warrior rework consists of, let me assure you that if you see complaints from other players that Warrior is OP, you're on the right track, so don't undo any positive changes that you make.

[Lysico.4906]

You are worried about nerfs??  You don’t even know if w3 are gettbuffs outside banners.  I 

[Mungrul.9358]

Touché!

😄

 

Silliness aside however, I still feel that this is core to how Warrior has ended up in this position in the first place.

Most people can deal with being killed by other professions, but they have such a low opinion of Warrior, they believe it should be bottom of the pile.

[Hotride.2187]

Me on guard and ranger where I press buttons and dmg happens, going: "wait war is basic?"

I had to spend 100+ hours on war to start doing something against players who are not missing a hand or half their brain.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Me on Soulbeast: Press LB2 gets a down.

And they say warrior is basic...

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Warrior has banners so its in a good place with strong builds in all content.

[Mungrul.9358]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Me on guard and ranger where I press buttons and dmg happens, going: "wait war is basic?"

I had to spend 100+ hours on war to start doing something against players who are not missing a hand or half their brain.

 

49 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Me on Soulbeast: Press LB2 gets a down.

And they say warrior is basic...

 

I mean, I know you guys both know this, but that's kind of the point. We know Warrior's one of the hardest professions to master, and if you're playing Guard or Necro and get beaten by a Warrior, that Warrior is really good.

 

It's other players who don't play the profession that don't understand this.

[Mabi black.1824]

I always use the warrior class, I have built several builds that adapt to my way of playing, one with conditions one with rifle one with double axe and one more resistant than the others with wod . in so many years I have never used bunners I have never been able to build anything around them.

[Fueki.4753]

5 hours ago, Lysico.4906 said:

You are worried about nerfs??  You don’t even know if w3 are gettbuffs outside banners.  I 

We don't even know if the banner changes will be a buff or otherwise positive result.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

17 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

We don't even know if the banner changes will be a buff or otherwise positive result.

^ This so much. I want to be positive regarding it but the years of evidence show that Warrior is considered secondary to almost every other profession.

It's fine having the vision of the Warrior being the big bruiser with no magical effects just as long as the Warrior is actually a big bruiser. The whole point of the CC nerf (that largely hit warriors) was because they were upset about CC and high damage skills, but then left all of the other professions that can CC-lock while doing high damage skills through either condis or having a ridiculous level of access to CC that removing damage of CC doesn't actually do anything.

Out of all the professions, Warrior having lots of CC with heavy hits makes the most sense, because all the other professions have everything else (dodges/mobility; support; ranged; ridiculous levels of condi; etc).

Either that, or make it so warriors have 50% incoming damage reduction baseline so that they play into the vision of being the frontline tank (NOTE: This comment was an extreme example, I don't believe they should actually do this but honestly they need to figure out the vision of the Warrior rather than just the "basic profession")

Edited June 15, 2022 by Geoff Fey.1035

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

^ This so much. I want to be positive regarding it but the years of evidence show that Warrior is considered secondary to almost every other profession.

It's fine having the vision of the Warrior being the big bruiser with no magical effects just as long as the Warrior is actually a big bruiser. The whole point of the CC nerf (that largely hit warriors) was because they were upset about CC and high damage skills, but then left all of the other professions that can CC-lock while doing high damage skills through either condis or having a ridiculous level of access to CC that removing damage of CC doesn't actually do anything.

Out of all the professions, Warrior having lots of CC with heavy hits makes the most sense, because all the other professions have everything else (dodges/mobility; support; ranged; ridiculous levels of condi; etc).

Either that, or make it so warriors have 50% incoming damage reduction baseline so that they play into the vision of being the frontline tank (NOTE: This comment was an extreme example, I don't believe they should actually do this but honestly they need to figure out the vision of the Warrior rather than just the "basic profession")

No, I'm cool with 50% reduced incoming damage at this point.

 

I'd do it like this though: 

Thick Skin: Take 2/1.5% less strike and condition damage per 100 Defense (that's armor + toughness), gain exposed when under a control effect.  (PvE/Comp split). Exposed being the same effect that foes with break bars get when you break their bar.

[JTGuevara.9018]

12 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

...ANet need to resist the inevitable calls to nerf it.

There's a philosophical problem with GW2 Warrior that is deeply embedded in the development team and the community, and that is the belief that Warrior is the basic profession.

So when people are beaten by what they perceive to be the "Basic" profession, they will howl and cry and throw their toys out of the pram.

How do we know this?

 

Years of observational evidence.

 

Instead of learning to counter Warriors over the years and become better players, people have screamed and screamed for the profession to be nerfed instead, because surely it's wrong that they can be beaten by the basic profession.

 

So ANet, no matter what your upcoming Warrior rework consists of, let me assure you that if you see complaints from other players that Warrior is OP, you're on the right track, so don't undo any positive changes that you make.

Yes. YES. (starts to cry tears of joy)...

Finally, someone acknowledges this! Those that actually play warrior and those that don't see two different worlds. I even bought into this assumption myself years ago: that warrior is the basic profession. Playing it further, I realized that it is NOT the case. Warrior is anything but basic in practice. Navigating class limitations, dealing with AoEs and teleports, landing F1 bursts (try landing mace burst without practice, I dare ya), setting up and landing CCs for Hundred Blades. Warrior is mostly melee and melee has a lot of counters in this game. It has to navigate all these counters. That is complex, it is NOT "basic". It's almost unfair how much counters melee has in gw2.

 

OP, although I admire your optimism, I am currently in a state of rebellion regarding this class. I'm not holding my breath on this next patch. What I've learned is that Anet is governed by social media and PR mouthpieces (ahem..."content creators") for its decisions regarding anything competitive.

Edited June 15, 2022 by JTGuevara.9018
add

[oscuro.9720]

You can pretty much cut out the whole “warrior becoming good” part. I’m still expecting us to get nerfed now. We can still move, we still have dodges, nothing is safe!!!

[Duglaive.5236]

Does CmC still have a hand in class development, and remain in charge of competitive mode balance and development?

 

Yes?

 

Then embrace realism, and hope the nerfs aren't overly severe. I swear that guy was being absolutely wrecked by warriors at one time and has a #NeverForget mentality.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Duglaive.5236 said:

Does CmC still have a hand in class development, and remain in charge of competitive mode balance and development?

 

Yes?

 

Then embrace realism, and hope the nerfs aren't overly severe. I swear that guy was being absolutely wrecked by warriors at one time and has a #NeverForget mentality.

He did play ele in the beginning, and was not reported as being good at it either, so I bet he was farmed hard by a warrior or two.

[Duglaive.5236]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

He did play ele in the beginning, and was not reported as being good at it either, so I bet he was farmed hard by a warrior or two.

Lol, that explains so much ... And tells me I was more correct than I knew for once 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

17 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

There's a philosophical problem with GW2 Warrior that is deeply embedded in the development team and the community, and that is the belief that Warrior is the basic profession.

correct

Neglecting the fact that you have to be extremely skilled to survive in a world of magic with just an axe, and that the less mundane classes are often easier to lend themselves to that fantasy. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Necro: I have a million ways to kill people. 

War: I have this stick to bonk people with, but I have to be careful. If I bonk to hard I may cause a daze and my dmg goes bye bye. 

[oscuro.9720]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Necro: I have a million ways to kill people. 

War: I have this stick to bonk people with, but I have to be careful. If I bonk to hard I may cause a daze and my dmg goes bye bye. 

Tis the curse of immeasurable strength. Always have to be careful not to hurt things too hard. 

[Odin.6487]

8 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

correct

Neglecting the fact that you have to be extremely skilled to survive in a world of magic with just an axe, and that the less mundane classes are often easier to lend themselves to that fantasy. 

meanwhile in WoW lore Varian and Saurfang run kitten and take kitten from no one. 

[Lucentfir.7430]

On 6/15/2022 at 12:59 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

Instead of learning to counter Warriors over the years and become better players, people have screamed and screamed for the profession to be nerfed instead, because surely it's wrong that they can be beaten by the basic profession.

Pretty much, this is just a observation, but most of the time the type of players I see whining and crying either come from inexperience players, or very biased Ele/Mesmer/Engi players that have the exact mindset of the bolded text in quote. 

-

I'm someone that Multiclasses , and normally alternates alt characters a while when I'm feeling a certain archetype mood. With the way warrior is currently and how much I enjoy the playstyle, sometimes it scares me if I stick to playing something else for too long, because it feels like I'm being spoiled and as a result dampens my efficiency to play Warrior effectively. 

 A example of feeling of getting spoiled was going back to a what I used to main which was guardian(10k-12k hours) and encountering some people I recognize that  gave me problems before when I was on Spb. I had a vastly easier time managing these encounters, dumpstering these folks 1v2 on a old medi trapper build I haven't even played in a while.  I knew if I was on Spb I'd be clawing and pulling teeth out to manage the same situation.  The same goes with Rev/hearld feels like I get spoiled af actually having some threatening damage but at a cautionary risk of fighting condi flood builds but manageable if they're mediocre.
  

  

Edited June 16, 2022 by Lucentfir.7430
Better post structure.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

52 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Pretty much, this is just a observation, but most of the time the type of players I see whining and crying either come from are inexperience players, or very biased Ele/Mesmer/Engi players that have the exact mindset of one the bolded. 

-

I'm someone that Multiclasses , and normally alternates a while when I'm feeling a certain archetype mood. With the way warrior is currently and how much I enjoy the playstyle, sometimes it scares me to stick to playing something else for too long because it feels like I'm being spoiled, and dampens my efficiency to play Warrior effectively.  A example of this was going back to a what I used to main which was guardian(10k-12k hours) and encountering some people I recognize giving me problems before when I was on Spb. I had a vastly easier time managing these encounters  dumpstering these folks 1v2 on a old medi trapper build I haven't even played in a while, that I knew if I was on Spb I'd be clawing and pulling teeth out to manage.  The same goes with Rev/hearld feels like I get spoiled af actually having some threatening damage but at a cautionary risk of fighting condi flood builds but manageable if they're mediocre.
  
 

There is a reason that I use grieving Stats on my Soulbeast instead of full Berserkers. I need the handicap to keep it interesting...

I also stopped playing my Reaper in WvW as much after Feb2020 because it got way too easy. I dropped my burn DH not long afterward because it was way too easy. After the nerfs to burn DH it still plays more easily than warrior, but all the Guardian mains are convinced the build is trash. Well that trash build is still easier than anything on warrior outside of BSW screaming it's lungs out to stay alive.

[Lucentfir.7430]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

There is a reason that I use grieving Stats on my Soulbeast instead of full Berserkers. I need the handicap to keep it interesting...

I also stopped playing my Reaper in WvW as much after Feb2020 because it got way too easy. I dropped my burn DH not long afterward because it was way too easy. After the nerfs to burn DH it still plays more easily than warrior, but all the Guardian mains are convinced the build is trash. Well that trash build is still easier than anything on warrior outside of BSW screaming it's lungs out to stay alive.

Soulbeast is really just a better warrior with decent long to mid range options with utility, it's also kinda nuts their ranged skills hit harder than a majority of my melee skills 💀. As for reaper it's funny stuff where I can just AA cleave downed, and most of the time people can't ignore me, and if they do they normally just die. As a former Guardian main, DH wise I never really liked burn DH, I loved the cooldown management of Medi trapper and lining up combos and skill shot via deflecting shot through ToF.  Burn DH on the other hand was easy to play and mostly used for cheap kills, but people that knew how to play against them or had condi cleanse/team support they became deadweight a lot of time, that stuff was funny back then with old resistance on spb and condi mallyx rev where you can purposefully eat a ton of burn stacks, and Revenge Counter/Condi Transfer Legend Swap (GM trait in Corruption) copy the burn stacks back to them and nuke them with their own burn.   

[Drax.7308]

On 6/15/2022 at 8:03 AM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Warrior has banners so its in a good place with strong builds in all content.

Wel banners are not good or an option in pvp or WvW, bicose by the time the banner hits the floor :  YOU ARE DEAD 💩💩💩

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Soulbeast is really just a better warrior with decent long to mid range options with utility, it's also kinda nuts their ranged skills hit harder than a majority of my melee skills 💀. As for reaper it's funny stuff where I can just AA cleave downed, and most of the time people can't ignore me, and if they do they normally just die. As a former Guardian main, DH wise I never really liked burn DH, I loved the cooldown management of Medi trapper and lining up combos and skill shot via deflecting shot through ToF.  Burn DH on the other hand was easy to play and mostly used for cheap kills, but people that knew how to play against them or had condi cleanse/team support they became deadweight a lot of time, that stuff was funny back then with old resistance on spb and condi mallyx rev where you can purposefully eat a ton of burn stacks, and Revenge Counter/Condi Transfer Legend Swap (GM trait in Corruption) copy the burn stacks back to them and nuke them with their own burn.   

Yeah old resistance would have made it hard, but the version I ran still had decent power damage, so you'd still threaten people with all the damage you put out. If you played well you wouldn't get nuked by your own burn either cause F2 cleanses it for you. There is a reason it was too easy.