SeaLOfHeLL.2176 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 First of all, let me tell you this: I love this game. I have played thousands of hours. But since I care for the story I have to express my discomfort about Kasmeer and Marjory's relationship. There is only one relationship in the main story and it is a lesbian one. What is the purpose of this focus? If there was other relations (e.g. Logan and Jenah) I could ignore this situation. Can someone please explain this to me without taking LGBT+ defensive stance? 1 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 They were the designated smooching characters for the main cast, and I think that's about as much thinking as there was behind the decision. It's possible ArenaNet intended for the couple to be a nod to inclusivity, but I think their relationship was mostly just a superficial quirk (at least earlier in the storyline). A lot of games and shows do similar where you'll have the seasoned fighter, the brain, the spooky recluse, the hothead, the idiot, and other tropes; 'the two who can't keep their hands off each other' is just another common one. If the couple had been two men, two different women, a male and a female, or other people across the gender/species spectrum, they'd have filled the same role for the same reason. The genders involved in a relationship shouldn't matter when judging the quality of writing, and if they do it might be that you're taking issue with something other than 'the story'. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidit.7108 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 In EoD they clearly pushed that Taimi-Gorrik ship out to sea. We also got to see Rama chicken out of telling Min how he feels. Kas and Jory haven't been the only characters they've focused on. Secondly, past and present relationship statuses have been a part of this game's story telling since the beginning. Just look at what we got only out fo Destiny's Edge. We just had everything put out on the table about Rytlock and Cercia in Icebrood Saga. They've been will-they-or-won't-they about Logan and Jennah for a decade. Foalin was pretty obsessively trying to get Caithe back for most of the time she was alive. Eir "nope"ing out of a relationship makes up half of Braham's backstory. I'm sure Snargle Goldclaw is hard at work on his next book about Zoja having built Mr. Sparkles as the perfect man. Side characters either going out or already being married are peppered throughout the personal story and in other parts. You even get to reconnect with one couple from the Zhaitan arc in Arborstone. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farohna.6247 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Two people working closely together at a job who form a bond and fall in love? Most of the others work individually or as a larger group. So that grew over the years? Logan and Jennah don't work due to her position, so they're devoted friends. Garden There is always Logan and Rytlock...but they are more of brothers. Rytlock, being a charr, doesn't have a permanent partner, and probably has had several and offspring as well. Crecia has a leadership role and while I'm sure Rytlock and her probably get together occasionally, they are charr. Canach is....Canach (although have you met the Countess...draw your own conclusions). Taimi is too young early in the story...eew. Now possibly Gorrik..cute! Rox....hetero, with boyfriend...go girl! Braham is off making a name for himself and had someone he cared about but didn't work out, and now kind of dishevelled mess recovering for a while. Etc, etc, etc. 15 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said: They were the designated smooching characters for the main cast, and I think that's about as much thinking as there was behind the decision. It's possible ArenaNet intended for the couple to be a nod to inclusivity, but I think their relationship was mostly just a superficial quirk (at least earlier in the storyline). A lot of games and shows do similar where you'll have the seasoned fighter, the brain, the spooky recluse, the hothead, the idiot, and other tropes; 'the two who can't keep their hands off each other' is just another common one. If the couple had been two men, two different women, a male and a female, or other people across the gender/species spectrum, they'd have filled the same role for the same reason. The genders involved in a relationship shouldn't matter when judging the quality of writing, and if they do it might be that you're taking issue with something other than 'the story'. Just read this..nice summary! In a lot of fantasy, games, and sci fi it's a popular theme and has been for many decades to have a more open and broader view of what a relationship might include. Do interspecies, ethnically diverse, alien, or any other non human, or non hetero normative relationships in a fictional world bother the OP? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythical.6315 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 2 hours ago, SeaLOfHeLL.2176 said: First of all, let me tell you this: I love this game. I have played thousands of hours. But since I care for the story I have to express my discomfort about Kasmeer and Marjory's relationship. There is only one relationship in the main story and it is a lesbian one. What is the purpose of this focus? If there was other relations (e.g. Logan and Jenah) I could ignore this situation. Can someone please explain this to me without taking LGBT+ defensive stance? Why does it matter? 4 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zola.6197 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 “Please don’t take an LGBT+ defensive stance just because I don’t like seeing LGBT+ relationships.” How many games, shows, novels, movies, comics, etc have you enjoyed where there were only heterosexual relationships and no LGBT+ relationships. Did the imbalance bother you then? 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greyhawk.9107 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Zola.6197 said: “Please don’t take an LGBT+ defensive stance just because I don’t like seeing LGBT+ relationships.” How many games, shows, novels, movies, comics, etc have you enjoyed where there were only heterosexual relationships and no LGBT+ relationships. Did the imbalance bother you then? Sounds you're stawmanning the OP. They did not say that they didn't want to see any gay relationships, just that they didnt lunderstand why the only one in the main story is a lesbian one. YOU added in the "don't want to see part", which is incredibly intellectually dishonest. And yes, it is a little weird that two of the only three official relationships of note in the main cast have been lesbian ones. It's not just the both are same-sex, but that both were lesbian. As a matter of fact I can think of only one male pairing off the top of my head among the ancillary characters yet multiple more female pairings. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farohna.6247 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 21 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said: Sounds you're stawmanning the OP. They did not say that they didn't want to see any gay relationships, just that they didnt lunderstand why the only one in the main story is a lesbian one. YOU added in the "don't want to see part", which is incredibly intellectually dishonest. And yes, it is a little weird that two of the only three official relationships of note in the main cast have been lesbian ones. It's not just the both are same-sex, but that both were lesbian. As a matter of fact I can think of only one male pairing off the top of my head among the ancillary characters yet multiple more female pairings. You're correct that it's presumed that OP prefers not to see any LGBTQ relationships. Since OP asked why the focus is only on a lesbian couple and then cites the example of a hetero couple, it tends to lend itself to that conclusion. I do agree, why not have other couples, balance it out? We all know the target audience traditionally for video games (granted mmo's often attract older players) is the coveted 18-25 year old male demographic. Do we see more female couples because that is presumed more appealing? Who knows. Personally I'm there to take down the big baddie and go on to the next crisis and really like seeing just platonic relationships with my comrades, and never give the romance side a second thought. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLOfHeLL.2176 Posted June 16, 2022 Author Share Posted June 16, 2022 Thank you for honest answers. As I said before -even though I am straight and don't like to see gay characters in games I play- I may ignore these characters because these people are also part of life. But the lastest news made me a bit annoyed because the game has more problems like bugs etc than "kissing animation". In RPG games, we build connections with our characters and the world we play in. That may be the reason I had to open this topic. Thank you again for your respectful replies. 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said: They did not say that they didn't want to see any gay relationships He (I assume he is a man) said that he doesnt like to see gay characters. 9 hours ago, SeaLOfHeLL.2176 said: even though I am straight and don't like to see gay characters in games I play I will never understand why people have a problem with two people being in a consensual relationship. What does it matter if it is two men, two women, one man and one woman. Why hate someone because of his sexuality? Well, Happy Pride Month everyone Edited June 17, 2022 by yoni.7015 7 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greyhawk.9107 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 hour ago, yoni.7015 said: He (I assume he is a man) said that he doesnt like to see gay characters. I will never understand why people have a problem with two people being in a consensual relationship. What does it matter if it is two men, two women, one man and one woman. Why hate someone because of his sexuality? Well, Happy Pride Month everyone Fine, I stand corrected....though for the life of me I can't see how that was explicitly stated in the Original Post. We live in a time where some very vocal people throw the "-ist", "-ism", and "-phobe" accusations willy-nilly, well past the point of being "the boy who cried wolf", and as such I'll sometimes push back against others when it looks like they're making those accusations unjustly. And I read it wrong this time. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLOfHeLL.2176 Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 2 hours ago, yoni.7015 said: He (I assume he is a man) said that he doesnt like to see gay characters. Yes. As you have right to express that you love to see them, I have also right to say otherwise. That doesn't mean I like to dictate what devs should do as you can not dictate me what to like or not. If I like it, I keep playing, If I don't, I walk away. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farohna.6247 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 49 minutes ago, SeaLOfHeLL.2176 said: Yes. As you have right to express that you love to see them, I have also right to say otherwise. That doesn't mean I like to dictate what devs should do as you can not dictate me what to like or not. If I like it, I keep playing, If I don't, I walk away. Appreciate your effort to ask questions, keep things civil, and be respectful even when you disagree OP. You're right, you don't have to agree, you don't have to like it, it would be good to have a balance of relationships represented. I do wish more people would follow your stance on if I have an issue, walk away, as opposed to creating hate and conflict. We don't agree, I find it a non issue and support LGBTQ rights as a straight ally. Let's all be kind and helpful out there though, in game and irl, and have more gentle dialogues to understand each other. Happy Pride month 🌈 to our fellow GW2 gamers ☮️ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLOfHeLL.2176 Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Farohna.6247 said: Appreciate your effort to ask questions, keep things civil, and be respectful even when you disagree OP. You're right, you don't have to agree, you don't have to like it, it would be good to have a balance of relationships represented. I do wish more people would follow your stance on if I have an issue, walk away, as opposed to creating hate and conflict. We don't agree, I find it a non issue and support LGBTQ rights as a straight ally. Let's all be kind and helpful out there though, in game and irl, and have more gentle dialogues to understand each other. Happy Pride month 🌈 to our fellow GW2 gamers ☮️ Thank you for your reply. I agree with you. That's why I asked repliers not to be defensive on their case but sometimes we can't have that. A gay male was one of the people who raised me. I love him and people like him as person. But I hate when someone tells me "What? Don't you support them? Then you're -put bad words here-." Dialogue starts by trying to understand each other. I couldn't make myself clear, it seems. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 18 hours ago, SeaLOfHeLL.2176 said: There is only one relationship in the main story and it is a lesbian one. Your point being? Because it seems like being a lesbian relationship bothers you. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyth.6714 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Runtlock and Logan 😂 I mean come on !!! That relationship is FUNNIEEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farohna.6247 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 28 minutes ago, Nythrilyn.2146 said: Runtlock and Logan 😂 I mean come on !!! That relationship is FUNNIEEE But his fur is so soft.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLOfHeLL.2176 Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 hour ago, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said: Your point being? Because it seems like being a lesbian relationship bothers you. Yeah. Is that a problem? Or would you like me not to be bothered? I asked a question and got my answer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLOfHeLL.2176 Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 That topic is closed for me. It seems I won't be able to find much people to talk civilized. I thank my friends who answered without provoking. Can some moderator close this topic please? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 49 minutes ago, SeaLOfHeLL.2176 said: Yeah. Is that a problem? Or would you like me not to be bothered? I asked a question and got my answer. It is, actually. It's against the law to discriminate based on sexual orientation. If you got your answer and you're happy, good for you. It's a shame certain types of love bother you. 4 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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