You're dumbing down the game.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

14 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said:

An easy build to play, like a Mechanist, shouldn't deal more damage of a difficult one, like core engi (yes, core, but remember how the purpose of the class balance we had a couple of years ago, was to make every build viable, even the core ones?), just to remain on the same profession. We also had LFG with 10 Scourge (for the boneskinner) in the past, remember? These are things that can be changed with a patch. The Mechanist could be nerfed.

 

I think the point of the OP was more general: increasing the boon's stacks, removing retaliation (that eye of Mordremoth in the Dragon's Bash was a nice challenge years ago), giving us more HP with the jade bot first, now with the anvil (not much, but bit by bit... my thief has 3k more HP than 2 years ago, and only the standard jade bot lv3. New/core players don't have these boons). The gameplay is getting more and more reliant on keeping boons up all the time, maxing out minions/bots, remembering to claim the offensive and defensive boons on the map, than... playing skilfully. People are still one shot during meta, because they don't see a dark green pile of junk. Keep providing HP and boons, and people would care about mechanics even less than now. We always look for a way to "cheese" some achievement, because it's often possible. We are too powerful!

 

We had a huge nerf years ago, in PvP, because we had too much power creep, and now we are bringing even more power creep into the game (mostly in PvE). I'm not crying or particularly worried, the game is still fun, but it's a clear shift. Keep in mind: an easy game will attract more players, but the retention will be lower in the long run.

I've been talking about powercreep in PvE for years, but every time I suggest toning it down, everyone thinks I'm dumb. The damage numbers on everything are off the charts compared to release.

 

I think DPS benchmarks during the dungeon era capped out at around 10k.

[Hotride.2187]

50 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

NO THEY ARE NOT DUMBING DOWN THE GAME!!!!!

YOU ARE JUST GETTING SMARTER

True. Man I feel so smart after prolly a total of 2 years worth of fractal dailies on my hfb. I can spam 3 mantras nearly instantaneously AND blast a fire field for might. My brain will soon fill the entire room.

Meanwhile on my spb I have to consistently evade d/p thief backstab out of stealth or I get headshot interrupted to death. It must be the hfb gameplay that gave me a sixth sense though.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

In other post here, day of the patch I made note that as an engie main for most of the last 10 years that I hated the rifle update because it basically trivialized mechanist gameplay and got a bunch of "confused" reactions to it.  If that doesn't tell you the state of the game at this point then I dunno what will.  I didn't even touch upon the absolutely broken rework to the GM trait that further allows the shutting off of one's brain.  Considering blowing the dust off of my core thief build for a while.

[Dagger.2035]

The discord leak confirmed the messed-up balance philosophy.  It always seemed like Guardian and Engineer were favored by the developers.  Guardian excels in every game mode and has many build options.  Engineer always gets well designed weapon skills and tends to dominate in PvP when it gets a new elite spec.  Meanwhile thief gets random balance changes which have no effect.  Elementalist gets continually nerfed and can't compete when played at a high skill level.
Then the discord leak confirmed everything.   The developer doesn't believe higher skill gameplay should produce better results.  He believes all classes should perform equally regardless of APM or long skill rotations.  He doesn't know how to balance classes that he doesn't play: Warrior, Ranger, Thief.  And to top it off he plays Guardian and Engineer.

This approach to balancing is completely wrong.  Builds which require more skill should produce better results.  Builds which only bring DPS and nothing else should perform better than builds which offer group support.  The latest elite specs should not outperform everything.

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

ANet has completely killed profession identity. That's a fact.

To me, that's the biggest part of dumbing down a game: making everything somehow the same, a weird mishmash of "whatever", because "who cares", right? 🤔

That's an opinion.   Different types of players seen profession identity differently.

More casual players and even players like me, see professions as a flavor not a set of skills. I'd wager most people see necros as the spooky I can raise the dead class, where most people see elementalists as wizards and nothing more. They're not playing end game content or raiding or PvPing. To those people, and to people like me, the professions remain different because we're less focused on mechanics and more focused on theme and flavor.

You can believe that it's a fact, but it's only a fact to people that focus on mechanics. It's probably a fair percentage of the population but I'm not sure it's most of the population.  

Everyone has the right to express their opinion, but expressing their opinion as fact is something I'm going to call out whenever I see it.

[Ashantara.8731]

2 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

To those people, and to people like me, the professions remain different because we're less focused on mechanics and more focused on theme and flavor.

no identity = no flavor

What you describe as "flavor" are mere cosmetics, just like races. Real flavor is what the profession can do -- and if each profession can do the same, there is no flavor.

P.S. Raising the dead actual is a profession mechanic.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

no identity = no flavor

What you describe as "flavor" are mere cosmetics, just like races. Real flavor is what the profession can do -- and if each profession can do the same, there is no flavor.

P.S. Raising the dead actual is a profession mechanic.

And yet races in GW2 are apparently not being considered to lack flavour or identity (i assume that by the complete lack of complaints about such an issue). So, apparently, aestethics ("cosmetics") do matter a lot.

I mean, they may not matter to you personally, but they do matter a lot for me. I do not play classes for the abilities/utilities/dps they have, i play them for the feels and aestethics. Or, at least, i want to play that way, but sometimes the gap becomes so big i feel forced to play a class i dislike just because of its capability. Or i feel forced to switch a profession i liked into an espec that plays completely differently, because the butt that espec provides is too bigh to pass upon even though the gameplay of that espec is definitely not what i originally started playing that profession for.

For me, what the professions can do is not flavour. It is just bland capability. For me, flavor lies in how those abilities will be used.

[Ashantara.8731]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I mean, they may not matter to you personally

They used to, until I finally came to terms with the fact that ANet is never going to provide any real RPG content that alters the story or provides different paths (albeit leading to the same goal) depending on your race.

That's when I deleted several PvE characters and kept only one per profession. Now even that is starting to seem pointless with the direction of "uniforming all professions" they are taking.

[LKEY.9567]

1 hour ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

I don't understand, is this a "you're dumbing down the game" thread or a "nerf engi!" thread?

Well, Mechanist should be nerfed. Holo looks fine, Scrapper could use some love.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

18 minutes ago, LKEY.9567 said:

Well, Mechanist should be nerfed. Holo looks fine, Scrapper could use some love.

Frankly, if Anet wants to leave this mech, spam 1 and do insane dps with huge boon uptime while AFK, then fine.  Get all the other classes up to the same level of AFK play and call it a day.

[Mik.3401]

In the ideal world the points you made would be taken as priority by the devs indeed. I’m also shocked how much potential is being thrown to trash here. It just feels like they changed their business strategy towards luring new players and making them buy stuff quickly rather than making people stay. This sort of high traffic and low devoted player base model is something I kind of notice for couple years now.

Also, nowadays people want to play a bit, buy some skins with real money and move on. We may like it or not but that’s what we are working with to say. And Anet capitalises  on it, GW2 is not a passion project anymore, with time things changed.

[Einsof.1457]

2 hours ago, PookieDaWombat.6209 said:

Frankly, if Anet wants to leave this mech, spam 1 and do insane dps with huge boon uptime while AFK, then fine.  Get all the other classes up to the same level of AFK play and call it a day.

That's not fine. 

[Rhingeim.3974]

Honestly, whole mechanist design and recent rework of rifle skills is like a bless for me. 

 

I like low-APM builds with clear and straightforward approach, with some small options on top of that. 

 

The whole Mechanist design is super-friendly for new players, and I think it's better to not nerf it - the whole community can benefit from this. 

 

New player can get mechanist and provide boons/be effective without any complexity. 

Experienced players will benefit from mechanists in party since they most likely will be sufficient (imagine of having fresh boosted Ele or Scourge). 

 

In fact, every profession should have at least one spec on the same level of mechanist. 

[Fozzie.5370]

8 hours ago, LKEY.9567 said:

 

Guild Wars 2 has, by far, the best combat system of any MMORPG and it should reward skillfullness instead of being lazy. Don't dumb down the game, make it playful. 

 

 

Agree completely.

I hope Anet takes heed, its not like people are hating on the patch as per other thread : They're frankly venting their constructive criticisms on forum as it's the only outlet that have to do so.  Sadly in my humble opinion it's one of the poorest balance patches I have ever seen in my 20+ years of playing MMO's. 😪

I get it Anet you want us just to play Guard, Necro Engineer. R..I.P. our Banner Slave Warriors, never to see a Banner dropped again, except to be laughed over !  😪

I loved playing Banner Slave Warrior, it doesn't exactly have a high skill ceiling, therefore great to play when I was tired, or not on form and could still focus enough to do my job effectively, but now Anet in epic fashion you've completely trashed Banners, "For Great Justice is far better" than either single banner or both I think perhaps put together?!? - Banners were great before when they gave 170 bonus, then nerfed to 100 bonus but still unique at least to Warrior , but alas decimating banners to give boons is  totally unfathomable and inexplicable, as obviously there are other professions, oh wait perhaps Guardian is more viable for a change 😂:🤣, that can do the job far superior.  I have so many boring kitten Guardians on my account, only 2 warriors, might as well instant delete the warriors make another 2 Guardians.  Anyone selling a Legendary Salvage Kit for my Frostfang Axes, and Moot Maces ? 😪

So all we need in Gw2 suitable for all game-modes :1 Account, 1st Character: Guardian: x3-7 Build Templates: Choice of >>> Condi QFB, Power QFB, Heal Firebrand, Condi Willbender, Power Willbender, Power Dragonhunter, Celestial Hybrid Firebrand (optional).  ?  2nd Character: Engineer: Heal Alacrity Mech is a boon beast , 3rd character: Necro ( Scourge (DPS or secondary healer/support), Condi Quick Harbinger, ) OR  Revenant ( Renegade: Alac), Herald (WvW)   Well I guess saves on character slots, wasting time on other professions, gear equipping, levelling other characters. 😂🤣 😂

Actually true inside story here: The "G" in GW2 never ever stood for Guild, as let's face it apart from those whom partake in GvG in WvW (only a very niche small % of players), there is no such thing as Guild Wars. 

The "G" in GW2 ALWAYS stood for :  "Guardian Wars".

Edited June 30, 2022 by Greg.7086

[Vahlen.9508]

That's like......just your opinion man. The vocal minority always screams the loudest.

[karsa.8513]

24 minutes ago, Vahlen.9508 said:

That's like......just your opinion man. The vocal minority always screams the loudest.

Yeah, instead of asking ANET to buff other elite specs or be content whith what it is now, they always scream to nerf the so called "op ones". Typical human behavior. Misery loves company (●'◡'●)

Edited June 30, 2022 by karsa.8513

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, karsa.8513 said:

Yeah, instead of asking ANET to buff other elite specs they always scream to nerf the so called "op ones". Typical human behavior. Misery loves company (●'◡'●)

You miss the tiny detail about the professions/builds/skills not existng in vacuum, but instead in relation to the game's content. Buff everything and you'll trivialize/dumb down the game even more. You need to balance around certain difficulty level -so to speak- and many times nerfing overperforming stuff is the reasonable answer, despite some of the players claiming "they should buff other stuff instead of nerfing what I'm playing". No, they shouldn't. Definitely not as a general rule.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

2 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

That's not fine. 

I agree 100%, but at this point getting Anet to properly balance stuff is just not going to happen, so least they can do is pull the pin and go all the way toward fight automation.  Getting them to attempt to tone it back will end with something akin to war banners that were just somehow made worse than how they worked at the game's launch.

[Vahlen.9508]

I have no problem with the game or the direction it is heading. I personally don't enjoy having to play the piano to do content. Keep up the good stuff Anet.

[Seremela the Elf Mage.1748]

4 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

In the ideal world the points you made would be taken as priority by the devs indeed. I’m also shocked how much potential is being thrown to trash here. It just feels like they changed their business strategy towards luring new players and making them buy stuff quickly rather than making people stay. This sort of high traffic and low devoted player base model is something I kind of notice for couple years now.

Also, nowadays people want to play a bit, buy some skins with real money and move on. We may like it or not but that’s what we are working with to say. And Anet capitalises  on it, GW2 is not a passion project anymore, with time things changed.

Makes you wonder if you're playing a phone game. Look at the pretty waifus/cosmetic! Next month there's more, but really they all play the same. In a few months the phone game stops getting developed for a reason: you can restart the whole system with a slightly different theme (like scifi instead of fantasy) and get people to buy in all over again. The new game won't have any content either, and that's what GW2 is turning into: empty vanity.

[Tails.9372]

8 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

More often than not the only LFG available for a dungeon/Fractal/Strike says (Rifle) Engis only.

Well it depends why they are doing it:

If the reason is because they actually think that engi rifle AA spam is strong then they're just ill informed, even P/P unload spam does more damage than this and that's not exactly putting the bar very high.

If however they do it because they recognized that the average player does only about 1-4k dps and they want to raise the DPS floor with something that's as foolproof as possible than I'd say it's a reasonable approach to take as not everyone is capable / willing to make the effort to hit F1 on Harbinger.

That being said I have yet to see any in the LFG actually ask for "rifle engi" so maybe it's more of a regonal issue?

Edited June 30, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Hotride.2187]

5 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

If you need perkyness, complexity and speed, i strongly advice to get a job

Ah yes cause I wanna be a couch potato after work. You can always watch a movie if you want something to play for you.

[Seremela the Elf Mage.1748]

24 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

And this is your opinion.

Some people play video games to get rid of daily stress, not to add additional stress.

If you need perkyness, complexity and speed, i strongly advice to get a job

And this is your opinion.
Some people enjoy complexity in games, some like to chill and unwind
Some people like the satisfaction of pulling off a complicated rotation and feeling rewarded for it, for others its hitting a personal mile stone

Different people are looking for different things from this game, and there isn't a reason that both can't find them. If you want to work harder, why shouldn't you be rewarded? If you didn't want to play piano, you shouldn't be "useless" across all content, just not competing with the output of the classes that do have high apm rotations.

But suggesting that people who want complexity and speed are unemployed is incredibly disrespectful. 

[Sobx.1758]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:40 PM, Kurrilino.2706 said:

And this is your opinion.

Some people play video games to get rid of daily stress, not to add additional stress.

If you need perkyness, complexity and speed, i strongly advice to get a job

That whole idea about complexity being the equivalent of work is consistently as funny as it is wrong. Complex games aren't anything new and they never stopped being entertainment. If you wanted less complexity, why even pick a complex game from an action mmorpg genre? 🤨

Not only that, but I doubt anyone here has anything against the existance of low intensity builds. But those low intensity/effort builds overperforming is just weird for what this game is.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[bossmitch.8037]

its not really motivating to see when you come online or join raids/strikes that they are all bunch of mechanists.

 

might as well remove all classes which in essence is the same thing, game lost depth. ya'll know why DoTa is still popular MOBA? the game has the ease of learning it and the depth to master it. GW2 is loosing the depth.