SA changes have ruined my special build

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

I used to enjoy playing SA thief in pvp and wvw but these changes have ruined my playstyle. I used to be the ultimate assassin, hiding in stealth undetected waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And if I slipped up I could dip back into the shadows planning my next move, the ultimate tactician. No one could hunt me down for my ability to befuddle foes with invisibility was unmatched. I used to laugh with glee at my enemies attempt to target me, and watch them with disdain as they tried to hit me with their aoe. I would frequently stop mid fight to type out taunting messages while invisible, goading them into a furious haze. It was the ultimate competition of wits and guile, and I was feared as a god is among peasants.

But que this latest patch and my build exists no more. I cannot be the invisible assassin I once was for my stealth uptime was nerfed. I try to duck into the shadows to escape my enemies but cant get away before they spot me. I try and say my taunting messages but drop out of stealth when im only halfway through typing. Instead I am forced to run around with permanent superspeed and more initiative than I know what to do with, it is so unfair! Please give me back my stealth. The thief archetype is about subterfuge and should have lots of stealth to fulfill that class fantasy.

[Telgum.6071]

3 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

No one could hunt me down

IMO this is the problem of the old SA to be honest. Being able to both negate all damage through mobility and also being able to have permanent stealth was a problem, and stealth was the most obvious fix. I kinda agree with your vision of subterfuge, stealth and tactics, but being able to enter and reenter stealth over and over was awful to play against.

I'm replaying thief after some break and I find both core and deadeye perfectly good, specially DE. I wish Anet gave some love to Acrobatics though.

 

[Dante.1508]

I'm sorry for your build but you are coming off a bit of a griefer..

[I Insanity I.3278]

16 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

I used to enjoy playing SA thief in pvp and wvw but these changes have ruined my playstyle. I used to be the ultimate assassin, hiding in stealth undetected waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And if I slipped up I could dip back into the shadows planning my next move, the ultimate tactician. No one could hunt me down for my ability to befuddle foes with invisibility was unmatched. I used to laugh with glee at my enemies attempt to target me, and watch them with disdain as they tried to hit me with their aoe. I would frequently stop mid fight to type out taunting messages while invisible, goading them into a furious haze. It was the ultimate competition of wits and guile, and I was feared as a god is among peasants.

But que this latest patch and my build exists no more. I cannot be the invisible assassin I once was for my stealth uptime was nerfed. I try to duck into the shadows to escape my enemies but cant get away before they spot me. I try and say my taunting messages but drop out of stealth when im only halfway through typing. Instead I am forced to run around with permanent superspeed and more initiative than I know what to do with, it is so unfair! Please give me back my stealth. The thief archetype is about subterfuge and should have lots of stealth to fulfill that class fantasy.

 

Should have marked that with a fat /S otherwise we'll have the 100th "QQ MY DEADEYE IS DEAD"-Thread...

 

[Chrysaliss.8720]

Didnt these chamges make deadeye completely broken in PvP now?

[Nyel.1843]

19 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

I used to enjoy playing SA thief in pvp and wvw but these changes have ruined my playstyle. I used to be the ultimate assassin, hiding in stealth undetected waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And if I slipped up I could dip back into the shadows planning my next move, the ultimate tactician. No one could hunt me down for my ability to befuddle foes with invisibility was unmatched. I used to laugh with glee at my enemies attempt to target me, and watch them with disdain as they tried to hit me with their aoe. I would frequently stop mid fight to type out taunting messages while invisible, goading them into a furious haze. It was the ultimate competition of wits and guile, and I was feared as a god is among peasants.

But que this latest patch and my build exists no more. I cannot be the invisible assassin I once was for my stealth uptime was nerfed. I try to duck into the shadows to escape my enemies but cant get away before they spot me. I try and say my taunting messages but drop out of stealth when im only halfway through typing. Instead I am forced to run around with permanent superspeed and more initiative than I know what to do with, it is so unfair! Please give me back my stealth. The thief archetype is about subterfuge and should have lots of stealth to fulfill that class fantasy.

Honestly, thank god this isn't possible anymore. This playstyle is fun only for one group of people, the ones using it. For all others it's a terrible and frustrating experience. 

[Ian.8340]

I agree with you, this playstyle was super fun. I wish they would revert these Shadow Arts changes.

[Peregrine Falcon.5496]

In the unlikely event that this is a serious post:

This kind of invisible assassin play style is the reason that a lot of people refuse to play PvP (or WvW) in any MMO. The ability for you to keep yourself invisible and attack at any time isn't really an issue. The ability to break targeting and stealth away the instant that you realize that the battle isn't going to go your way is the issue.

And no. Your ability to hit 7 and then 8 and then 9, rinse and repeat, doesn't make you "the ultimate tactician", to use your words. It makes you a person who knows how to use a keyboard. There's no "ultimate competition of wits and guile" simply because you chose the abilities that allow you to keep yourself invisible.

People who abuse this play style to constantly annoy and antagonize people in WvW is the single largest hurdle that I have to getting people to try out WvW with me. No one wants to play a game where invisible assassins can just decloak, attack and then never stick around once they realize that the person they're fighting isn't going to allow themselves to be insta-ganked. The "my invisibility prevents you from ever winning a battle" ability that these classes usually have in MMOs doesn't make you "the ultimate tactician" who's awesome at PvP, it makes you someone who gets their kicks out of antagonizing other people on the internet from the safety of your own home.

You want to claim to be "the ultimate tactician", go play a bunch of WvW with a Warrior. Until then all I have to say about you losing the ability to perma-stealth away from a fight is:

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

[kash.9213]

You should still be able to stack enough stealth to mask your map travel or to set up a proper opener. "And if I slipped up I could dip back into the shadows planning my next move" should sound problematic to you even as a thief.

Craft a good opening sequence with whatever Control you need and whatever modifiers you think will eat up a health bar fast. You can stack for your approach, come out of stealth, and put someone into Downstate in a few seconds, then you should even be able to stealth out. You just might have to fight someone if you're opener doesn't have enough impact to down someone or make them scramble.

[jpsssss.7530]

On 6/30/2022 at 11:49 AM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

I used to enjoy playing SA thief in pvp and wvw but these changes have ruined my playstyle. I used to be the ultimate assassin, hiding in stealth undetected waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And if I slipped up I could dip back into the shadows planning my next move, the ultimate tactician. No one could hunt me down for my ability to befuddle foes with invisibility was unmatched. I used to laugh with glee at my enemies attempt to target me, and watch them with disdain as they tried to hit me with their aoe. I would frequently stop mid fight to type out taunting messages while invisible, goading them into a furious haze. It was the ultimate competition of wits and guile, and I was feared as a god is among peasants.

But que this latest patch and my build exists no more. I cannot be the invisible assassin I once was for my stealth uptime was nerfed. I try to duck into the shadows to escape my enemies but cant get away before they spot me. I try and say my taunting messages but drop out of stealth when im only halfway through typing. Instead I am forced to run around with permanent superspeed and more initiative than I know what to do with, it is so unfair! Please give me back my stealth. The thief archetype is about subterfuge and should have lots of stealth to fulfill that class fantasy.

Someone said it perfectly earlier "I loved having 100% agency over my own survivability". No other class has that, so why should thief? As a non thief player who despised the infinite stealth, I do take deference with some of the changes. removing stealth on steal AND heal while also removing a CDR trait without any repayment of cooldowns is pretty bull kitten imo. Basically, if DE wasn't able to abuse stealth having 100% control over survivability at 1200 range it may have been left alone.

[itspomf.9523]

On 7/28/2022 at 10:00 PM, jpsssss.7530 said:

Someone said it perfectly earlier "I loved having 100% agency over my own survivability". No other class has that, so why should thief? As a non thief player who despised the infinite stealth, I do take deference with some of the changes. removing stealth on steal AND heal while also removing a CDR trait without any repayment of cooldowns is pretty bull kitten imo. Basically, if DE wasn't able to abuse stealth having 100% control over survivability at 1200 range it may have been left alone.

Agreed. I also take umbrage at the fact they're too busy balancing around elite specs and dramatically altering core thief.

However, I'd protest that quite a few classes currently have "100% agency" over their survivability, such as necromancer, mechanist, and guardian, to name a few.  Even mesmer can be quite potent at survival, if spec'd well.

Warrior and elementalist, on the other hand, well ... they're still working on having agency, period, but that's a rant altogether else.

[jpsssss.7530]

On 7/30/2022 at 4:47 PM, itspomf.9523 said:

Agreed. I also take umbrage at the fact they're too busy balancing around elite specs and dramatically altering core thief.

However, I'd protest that quite a few classes currently have "100% agency" over their survivability, such as necromancer, mechanist, and guardian, to name a few.  Even mesmer can be quite potent at survival, if spec'd well.

Warrior and elementalist, on the other hand, well ... they're still working on having agency, period, but that's a rant altogether else.

The reason why thief alone had 100% agency and no other class does is because all of their defensive tools have either a limited duration or some level of counterplay, which stealth had neither. DE was able to permanently stealth very easily. While revealed is a mechanic, DE has the capability to remove that one piece of counterplay. So in short it basically had an unlimited duration on its big defensive tool which gives it pseudo invulnerability, the ability to withhold important PvP information like location and skill animations, and also a target break (which can happen on dodge for some reason), all with no counter play.

[UNOwen.7132]

On 8/3/2022 at 9:06 PM, jpsssss.7530 said:

The reason why thief alone had 100% agency and no other class does is because all of their defensive tools have either a limited duration or some level of counterplay, which stealth had neither. DE was able to permanently stealth very easily. While revealed is a mechanic, DE has the capability to remove that one piece of counterplay. So in short it basically had an unlimited duration on its big defensive tool which gives it pseudo invulnerability, the ability to withhold important PvP information like location and skill animations, and also a target break (which can happen on dodge for some reason), all with no counter play.

Huh? Stealth is the most counterable "defensive" option. In fact, its so counterable, that its outright terrible as a defensive option, its use is almost exclusively offense and out of combat utility. A lot of classes have 100% agency, ironically thief is one of the ones who, unless theyre running a dodge-heavy build, dont. 

[Fipmip.7219]

people dont read the second paragraph because they have such a massive hard on for punching down on the perceived whiners. its a bait post people, just read.