A look at dragons end 4 months out.

[Silabus.4273]

Hello everyone. over the past week or so i looked hard at the Dragons End meta and i wanted to do a bit of a comparison video on it. This is mostly a look on how the rewards and how clears work on the fights along with the timers on them. I do hope you all enjoy and i am sorry the video is a bit ish long at 24 minutes! A deepish look into the Dragons end meta.

[Strider Pj.2193]

*waits for the TLDW summary*

[Silabus.4273]

cliffnotes. i juxtapose three map metas in what it takes and for their clears. point out how DE currently is no where near on the same level as DS and DF call for some changes.

[Valtanders.5032]

time is very short for soo-won in 20 min with random people is very short, the closest thing I've seen is 8% and it was a failure, in all these months I only entered one instance where they succeeded and it was an organized group of a guild

[Gorem.8104]

Honestly, I am amazed anyone is still in the zone 4 months later. It was a rush to get it done in the first month, but now, why on Earth would anyone want to be there. 

 

Like, if you have any life, at all and you only have 2 hours to play gw2. Why would you spend all of those 2 hours in a zone that has a chance to give you nothing for all of your time? 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Silabus.4273]

4 minutes ago, Valtanders.5032 said:

time is very short for soo-won in 20 min with random people is very short, the closest thing I've seen is 8% and it was a failure, in all these months I only entered one instance where they succeeded and it was an organized group of a guild

and thats why i made this video is to bring more light onto stuff like your experience. everyone loses it when on group gets so many kills in a certain way but im trying to bring light on how the fight isnt all that fair if you are pugging it hard like DS or DF cause if this doesn't get looked at now in the future itll only get worse when people move on from the map.

[Cindaria.6379]

2 hours ago, Valtanders.5032 said:

I've seen is 8% and it was a failure

Have we been in the same squad? 24hrs ago we lost DE meta with 8% 😂

For an open world event DE encounter is bad by design. I don't need an event where I must to watch videos for mechanics. I am like learning by doing but since everything is designed to be perfect to win and chances are time-gated, it is frustrating. If I want to be perfect, I apply for Snow Crows speedruns and do raiding with them.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Cindaria.6379

[Xerxez.7361]

2 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Honestly, I am amazed anyone is still in the zone 4 months later. It was a rush to get it done in the first month, but now, why on Earth would anyone want to be there. 

 

Like, if you have any life, at all and you only have 2 hours to play gw2. Why would you spend all of those 2 hours in a zone that has a chance to give you nothing for all of your time? 

 

Haven't failed in the Meta in Months. I join Tags that separate groups so that boons are distributed evenly and people are assigned locations for splits.

 

As far as what I get from those 2 Hours: 400 Favors (~20g after conversion), 15 Memories of Aurene (~7g), & Antique Summoning Stone (~7g). I would say ~34g for 2 hours of work isn't that bad.

[Cindaria.6379]

If it succeed. If you fail, you have nothing. Indeed, I can do T1 fractals, this brings more.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Cindaria.6379

[Sobx.1758]

Skipped most of the vid seeing how 3 minutes in you're still not even close to being done explaining the old HoT meta event step-by-step, even though most people here probably don't need it explained.

Improved rewards upon failure so the people aren't going out empty handed? Sure, probably. Then again when you confirm it's about players "not walking empty handed upon failing the event", any other buffs and additional timers implemented specifically to make it easier to complete the meta successfully almost no matter what seem to be contradictory to what you claim the goal is. Because now (probably less than a minute after you've made the empty-handed upon failure argument?) the goal isn't to still have a hard event that isn't majorly discouraging upon failure, but... an easier event. To me it looks like the first part is barely a set of smoke and mirrors to -in the end- just say "make it easier" anyways.

Your mentioned example of a group failing the event because they failed mechanic/s multiple times? I mean... seems to be working like intended?

You say the proposed changes "aren't for now, but for the future". If we take what you say as truth and not just a nicely-sounding phrase then I suppose we can easly wait for the  release of newer content (which is what you mentioned yourself), anet can see when there's consistently not enough people to finish the meta and then they can scale it down? Won't that solve that particular problem you say you're targetting here? (I'm treating the "empty-handed upon failure" thing as separate issue/solution unrelated to this one btw)

Finally, apparently you're dismissing people saying they "like hard content" because "the game has hard [instanced] content". Well, if that's enough of an argument for you, then the game also has a rather big amount of easy content (both OW and -perhaps to a slightly lesser extent, but still- instanced). Suddenly having a smaller % of harder OW content doesn't matter because there's instanced one? Can't say I agree with you.

26 minutes ago, Cindaria.6379 said:

but since everything is designed to be perfect to win

Pretty sure it isn't.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Silabus.4273]

21 minutes ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

 

Haven't failed in the Meta in Months. I join Tags that separate groups so that boons are distributed evenly and people are assigned locations for splits.

 

As far as what I get from those 2 Hours: 400 Favors (~20g after conversion), 15 Memories of Aurene (~7g), & Antique Summoning Stone (~7g). I would say ~34g for 2 hours of work isn't that bad.

yes but when most tags, that i have seen at least, read "de organized meta bring alac/quick" can you see how some folks wouldn't want to join it cause they are neither and would rather not get yelled at due to  experiences with strikes or fractals advertising the same way?

 

and again your only looking at the numbers if you win if not you may only have the favors if that and most folks may not know how to turn favors into gold or are saving them up for something else.

[Silabus.4273]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Skipped most of the vid seeing how 3 minutes in you're still not even close to being done explaining the old HoT meta event step-by-step, even though most people here probably don't need it explained.

Improved rewards upon failure so the people aren't going out empty handed? Sure, probably. Then again when you confirm it's about players "not walking empty handed upon failing the event", any other buffs and additional timers implemented specifically to make it easier to complete the meta successfully almost no matter what seem to be contradictory to what you claim the goal is. Because now (probably less than a minute after you've made the empty-handed upon failure argument?) the goal isn't to still have a hard event that isn't majorly discouraging upon failure, but... an easier event. To me it looks like the first part is barely a set of smoke and mirrors to -in the end- just say "make it easier" anyways.

Your mentioned example of a group failing the event because they failed mechanic/s multiple times? I mean... seems to be working like intended?

You say the proposed changes "aren't for now, but for the future". If we take what you say as truth and not just a nicely-sounding phrase then I suppose we can easly wait for the  release of newer content (which is what you mentioned yourself), anet can see when there's consistently not enough people to finish the meta and then they can scale it down? Won't that solve that particular problem you say you're targetting here? (I'm treating the "empty-handed upon failure" thing as separate issue/solution unrelated to this one btw)

Finally, apparently you're dismissing people saying they "like hard content" because "the game has hard [instanced] content". Well, if that's enough of an argument for you, then the game also has a rather big amount of easy content (both OW and -perhaps to a slightly lesser extent, but still- instanced). Suddenly having a smaller % of harder OW content doesn't matter because there's instanced one? Can't say I agree with you.

it seems you failed to see why i implemented that stuff in the beginning of the video and went into detail about DS and DF. it was just juxtapose how DE is ran against it. i dont know what the back end numbers are for the DE maps but i know in my travels i have talked to plenty a player who still had a hard time clearing the meta and i jsut want them to have a fair shake at it and not walk away empty handed. do i want the even fail able still? sure cause they it does retain some of its difficulty. but it also shouldn't leave 40 people that spent maybe an hour alone on one map with a "thank you try again". with all the buffs on the map it should make the fight a cakewalk cause the players put in the time an energy for it.  as for the mechanics we missed 2 CCs and was slow on getting to the tail twice. there are raid bosses that are more forgiving then that. i caint remember how many greens ive skipped while doing vale guardian cause the community found a way around it.

the reason i scream for the changes now is cause we know how anets devs are sadly. its one of the few gripes i do have about the studio. the only time we have a chance at making these kinds of changes is in the here and now cause its fresh in everyone's mind. should we look at wvw reconstruction that was announced like 2 years ago then the team just left it on the ground and only just got picked back up again shortly before EoD launch?

with the over world stuff i will say thins. guild wars 2 was marketed as a game that everything is viable but not everything is optimal. right now with the way the DE meta is its a hard crash against that philosophy the game and anet seems to mostly focus on the overworldso it should be the most accessible thing to all players regardless of what that person runs. every single map in the game in the overworld follows that kind of mentality. so long as you are activly doing the event you should succeed it. the DE fight is the only map that does not.

 

[Tinker.6924]

6 minutes ago, Silabus.4273 said:

yes but when most tags, that i have seen at least, read "de organized meta bring alac/quick"

I've never seen any such text or demand on any LFG meta group for EOD or anywhere else for that matter.  

 

The only problem i personally with the EoD metas are"full map" preventing me from joining the actual group.  Compare any EoD map caps with HoT or any LW4 map and EoD feels completely ridiculously limiting. 

[Silabus.4273]

1 minute ago, EmmetOtter.8542 said:

I've never seen any such text or demand on any LFG meta group for EOD or anywhere else for that matter.  

 

The only problem i personally with the EoD metas are"full map" preventing me from joining the actual group.  Compare any EoD map caps with HoT or any LW4 map and EoD feels completely ridiculously limiting. 

expanding the map cap can possible be another solution to this metas problem. when looking up points for this video i made a concerted effort to look around as i wrote the script. most of the time if i did see a DE post is usually had those in there cause the group was getting hard organize

[Silent.6137]

54 minutes ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

 

Haven't failed in the Meta in Months. I join Tags that separate groups so that boons are distributed evenly and people are assigned locations for splits.

 

As far as what I get from those 2 Hours: 400 Favors (~20g after conversion), 15 Memories of Aurene (~7g), & Antique Summoning Stone (~7g). I would say ~34g for 2 hours of work isn't that bad.

Like you, I haven't failed the Meta in months and I try to do it daily.

31 minutes ago, Silabus.4273 said:

yes but when most tags, that i have seen at least, read "de organized meta bring alac/quick" can you see how some folks wouldn't want to join it cause they are neither and would rather not get yelled at due to  experiences with strikes or fractals advertising the same way?

 

and again your only looking at the numbers if you win if not you may only have the favors if that and most folks may not know how to turn favors into gold or are saving them up for something else.

Some may be intimidated by LFG but any full squad, and they always are if listed on LFG, will only required about 10 Quick and 10 Alac. Not crucial if don't have those numbers. The rest are just any builds whatsoever with always quite a few new to the meta.

Even without winning the meta itself, the amount of loots from the pre- and the build-up events (including writs and favors) that you get are very very good - comparable to what you will get from some profitable metas.

I do agree that certain things needs to be changed. Better rewards at each stages with a visible chest that needs to be looted physically (reason being many ignored the auto-looted chests in the equations). There are 1 meta chest, 10 major and 20 minor chests available to loot upon success. And if the final meta fail, then there should be chests to be looted depending on the % left. No meta or major chests rewarded for failure but you get to loot 4 minor chests if at 61 to 80%, 8 chests if 41 to 60, 12 chests if 21 to 40% and 16 chest if 1 to 20%. These consolation chests will make the time invested easier to bear upon failure.

As for difficulties, I think they are fine as it is. Too easy and the meta will feel less epic.

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Silabus.4273 said:

it seems you failed to see why i implemented that stuff in the beginning of the video and went into detail about DS and DF. it was just juxtapose how DE is ran against it. i dont know what the back end numbers are for the DE maps but i know in my travels i have talked to plenty a player who still had a hard time clearing the meta and i jsut want them to have a fair shake at it and not walk away empty handed.

Nope, I didn't really fail to see it, I mentioned that "walk away empty handed upon failure" multiple times in my post and said it's probably correct, so... Tbh I'm not sure what exactly do you think I've missed about it?

The players do have a fair shake at it and having pug groups with commanders creating subgroups to increase the odds doesn't change anything about that.

2 minutes ago, Silabus.4273 said:

do i want the even fail able still? sure cause they it does retain some of its difficulty. but it also shouldn't leave 40 people that spent maybe an hour alone on one map with a "thank you try again".

This is literally STILL about the "rewards on meta fail". I really don't know why you're repeating this at me. This is literally the part I responded with "Improved rewards upon failure so the people aren't going out empty handed? Sure, probably." to. Did you miss it or what is happening here?

2 minutes ago, Silabus.4273 said:

with all the buffs on the map it should make the fight a cakewalk cause the players put in the time an energy for it.

That's the point, it shouldn't be a cakewalk. And you keep going back and forth with "failable" and "make it easier" to -now- "it should be a cakewalk with all the buffs!". No, no it shouldn't. You either want it to "still be failable" or to make it a "cakewalk". You can't have both, so how about you stop with the smoke and mirrors?

Quote

the reason i scream for the changes now is cause we know how anets devs are sadly. its one of the few gripes i do have about the studio. the only time we have a chance at making these kinds of changes is in the here and now cause its fresh in everyone's mind. should we look at wvw reconstruction that was announced like 2 years ago then the team just left it on the ground and only just got picked back up again shortly before EoD launch?

If you're honest about this approach, you shouldn't be repeating "change it now", but instead "keep an eye on it in the future". Otherwise it just seems dishonest to me and an effort to use "potential future problems" to "make it easier now". Which is exactly what I was pointing out.

Quote

with the over world stuff i will say thins. guild wars 2 was marketed as a game that everything is viable but not everything is optimal. right now with the way the DE meta is its a hard crash against that philosophy the game and anet seems to mostly focus on the overworldso it should be the most accessible thing to all players regardless of what that person runs. every single map in the game in the overworld follows that kind of mentality.

*open world

10 years into the "life" of the game, we have a harder meta where players should utilize the game's mechanics and make conscious decisions about their builds (which, mind, does NOT mean "playing optimally", "using meta builds" and so on) and the keys they're pressing. I can't say I see anything wrong with that.

Quote

so long as you are activly doing the event you should succeed it.

No, that only leads to face-roll content that makes the player avoid learning the game's mechanics and reassuring them that it doesn't matter what they do, the game basically "wins itself". Hard disagree on that philosophy.

Quote

the DE fight is the only map that does not.

Sorry, but that's just false.

[Cindaria.6379]

17 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

As for difficulties, I think there are fine as it is. Too easy and the meta will feel less epic.

Less bites, 20% less HP on subchamps, small changes could be enough if the HP of Soo-Won should not be changed. More time to build dps to it.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Cindaria.6379
not, not

[Ultramex.1506]

1 hour ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

 

Haven't failed in the Meta in Months. I join Tags that separate groups so that boons are distributed evenly and people are assigned locations for splits.

 

As far as what I get from those 2 Hours: 400 Favors (~20g after conversion), 15 Memories of Aurene (~7g), & Antique Summoning Stone (~7g). I would say ~34g for 2 hours of work isn't that bad.

Yah and Memory of Aurene price went up thanks to variants release, wonder will it continue to go up when all variants are released

Edited July 10, 2022 by Ultramex.1506

[DexterousGecko.6328]

3 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Just leave the fun to us. No need to worry yourself sick over it. 😁

 

You're also free to leave their opinions to them and not engage with them. No need to be passive aggressive and belittling.

[Ultramex.1506]

12 hours ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

 

You're also free to leave their opinions to them and not engage with them. No need to be passive aggressive and belittling.

Maybe the first person shouldn't be so aggressive in the first place, they are free to not to do so.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Ultramex.1506

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

 

You're also free to leave their opinions to them and not engage with them. No need to be passive aggressive and belittling.

Obviously but I don't because it gets tedious reading the automatic negative responses. Of course, you're also free to ignore comments that disagree with you without feeling the urge to tell people off.

[Shikaru.7618]

Just now, Silabus.4273 said:

thank you for completely missing the point of this video.

I got the point. Your argument is that this does not conform to the other meta events in the game and your suggested changes are an attempt at making it easier (paused timer on splits effectively increases the hard enrage timer), and also partial rewards for a failed attempts so people with less time don't feel like their time is wasted. 

 

I argue the meta is fine as is. Most pug commanders are learning that Quickness, Alacrity and Waystations are crucial to the completion of this event. I've pugged DE every day for the last week and none have failed. The meta demands higher than the bare minimum from the player which is not a bad thing, especially when that demand is very easily obtainable (run a build that either is dedicated to power, condi, or boons). So yes, you're free to ask for the already low bar to be even lower, or you can lift the player base up by helping/carrying them to reach the higher demand the meta asks of them.

[Valtanders.5032]

14 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

It really doesn't what they do or how successful some of us may be. You see DE meta mentioned and instantly you're here to trash it. Don't like it, just ignore it. I think it's safe to say anyone who frequents the forum are well aware of your hate for it.

Just leave the fun to us. No need to worry yourself sick over it. 😁

 

💀fun for me not for the, And what if no one does the event anymore?

Edited July 10, 2022 by Valtanders.5032

[Valtanders.5032]

12 hours ago, Shikaru.7618 said:

I argue the meta is fine as is. Most pug commanders are learning that Quickness, Alacrity and Waystations are crucial to the completion of this event. I've pugged DE every day for the last week and none have failed. The meta demands higher than the bare minimum from the player which is not a bad thing, especially when that demand is very easily obtainable (run a build that either is dedicated to power, condi, or boons). So yes, you're free to ask for the already low bar to be even lower, or you can lift the player base up by helping/carrying them to reach the higher demand the meta asks of them.

Can you send the time zones in which it does not fail? (please) because I'm already a little desperate, if I have to be at 3 am to achieve an event I'll have to do it, since anet doesn't put 10 more minutes on soo-won's timer and random groups don't make it , because they don't have DPS and they don't do CC, I'll have to do something like that to find an instance that can achieve it !!

[Silent.6137]

4 minutes ago, Valtanders.5032 said:

Can you send the time zones in which it does not fail? (please) because I'm already a little desperate, if I have to be at 3 am to achieve an event I'll have to do it, since anet doesn't put 10 more minutes on soo-won's timer and random groups don't make it , because they don't have DPS and they don't do CC, I'll have to do something like that to find an instance that can achieve it !! 😩

There's always successful LFG squads at Reset and the following two metas after that (UTC 1am, 3am & 5am) for the NA servers. Those are the only times I do them. Although I don't usually run with them, OTC (Overflow Trading Company) do several runs each day on both Eu and NA servers. Just check out their Discord. The announcements are listed on their choo-choo-alerts channel.