Will they allow us to migrate to Steam?

[XenMaster.7165]

Like ya know, so you can keep your account instead buying another all dlc from scratch.

[Cyninja.2954]

Very likely not.

Everything communicated so far indicates that steam accounts will be separate from non steam accounts and moving over the later is not possible. This is likely due to revenue reasons since steam accounts, given they are on Valves platform, will have to pay a fee to the platform (between 20-30%).

This is offset by having access to a new customer pool, but does hardly anything for already existing accounts. There is little financial interested for NCSoft or Arenanet to share the revenue they make off of non steam accounts with Valve.

Now this could be subject to change depending on the exact terms and agreements met between NCSoft and Valve, but so far and last communicated, it will not be possible.

EDIT:

Once again, Steam is NOT free. It never was. The fact that the developer or publisher have to pay the fees predominantly and not the average customer does not change that.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Teratus.2859]

Much as Cyninja said.

It shouldn't really affect anyone in the long run though.

The only thing that would bug me about not being able to convert my account is if the steam release ends up getting steam achievements (which I highly doubt it will)

That's the only thing I would want to play Gw2 on steam for tbh and would annoy me that I couldn't convert my account to get them.

[Jukhy.2431]

Not likely, but you can launch non-steam games from the steam client. See: https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4B8B-9697-2338-40EC
Some users reported that they had to use the 32-bit client to make it work. You can use the -32 command line argument to force the game to run in 32-bit mode.

[Mungrul.9358]

Eh, I dunno.

Bungie managed it with Destiny 2. But then on PC (if you ignore Stadia, which you should), Steam is their sole outlet, as was battle.net before they made the move.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, and I use Linux exclusively nowadays, so I'm already playing GW2 through Steam, as their Proton layer is the easiest way to run a lot of Windows games on Linux 😄

Edited July 19, 2022 by Mungrul.9358
Proud Penguin Pronunciation

[Mungrul.9358]

7 minutes ago, Jukhy.2431 said:

Some users reported that they had to use the 32-bit client to make it work. You can use the -32 command line argument to force the game to run in 32-bit mode.

That sounds dubious and incorrect, as Steam simply links to the executable and launches it.

[Jukhy.2431]

6 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

That sounds dubious and incorrect, as Steam simply links to the executable and launches it.

Just repeating what I read. I don't think command line arguments are "dubious". Even the GW2 wiki mentions -32 as possible one to use if needed.

[Mungrul.9358]

I didn't mean that the command line arguments are dubious, more the reason for them. I strongly doubt you have to run the 32bit executable if you're running GW2 through Steam. That sounds like superstition from people who know nothing about how the tech works.

[Jukhy.2431]

32 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

I didn't mean that the command line arguments are dubious, more the reason for them. I strongly doubt you have to run the 32bit executable if you're running GW2 through Steam. That sounds like superstition from people who know nothing about how the tech works.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification. Might be that their PC/OS did not support the 64-bit client in the past. Last year Anet did announce the end of support for 32-bit Windows (same time they ended Mac and Win XP support).

[Mungrul.9358]

But running a non-Steam game through Steam is basically the same as running it from a desktop shortcut.

Steam does nothing to the game itself, just acts as another shortcut to launch it.

On some games, it does allow you to run the Steam Overlay, and it will report to your friends what game you're playing, but that's it.

Steam doesn't care what the app is, it just hosts a shortcut to it.

You could run NOTEPAD through Steam this way and rename it Guild Wars 3 if you wanted.

Any problems with whether the executable is 32 or 64bit would be present without running the game through Steam.

[Galmac.4680]

One question: WHY?

 

What benefit would that bring?

[Tiamat.8254]

6 minutes ago, Galmac.4680 said:

One question: WHY?

 

What benefit would that bring?

So you can see if your friends are playing before you login?

[Mungrul.9358]

9 minutes ago, Galmac.4680 said:

One question: WHY?

 

What benefit would that bring?

Steam has very robust social functionality, like:

Automatic cloud hosting of screenshots captured in game.

The ability for friends to see exactly what you're doing in game (Destiny 2 does this really well, saying if people are raiding or playing strikes or dungeons), then have them join you in that activity from outside of the game.

Steam Chat allows people to chat to you in-game, even if they're not in game with you, either via the overlay and text messaging or through voice.

It allows you to stream your gameplay.

It allows you to run groups, so you could effectively have a dedicated Steam community for your guild.

Access to guides directly in game via the overlay.

And if your game allows it, access to mods which can be kept up-to-date automatically when hosted on the Workshop. I could see this being fantastic for stuff like TACO and ArcDPS if ANet implement Workshop support.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Mungrul.9358
Steam chat clarification.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Jukhy.2431 said:

Just repeating what I read. I don't think command line arguments are "dubious". Even the GW2 wiki mentions -32 as possible one to use if needed.

That information is likely obsolete. From what i remember, the support for the 32bit version has been completely dropped recently

[Astralporing.1957]

23 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Steam has very robust social functionality, like:

Automatic cloud hosting of screenshots captured in game.

The ability for friends to see exactly what you're doing in game (Destiny 2 does this really well, saying if people are raiding or playing strikes or dungeons), then have them join you in that activity from outside of the game.

Steam Chat allows people to chat to you in-game, even if they're not in game with you, either via the overlay and text messaging or through voice.

It allows you to stream your gameplay.

It allows you to run groups, so you could effectively have a dedicated Steam community for your guild.

Access to guides directly in game via the overlay.

And if your game allows it, access to mods which can be kept up-to-date automatically when hosted on the Workshop. I could see this being fantastic for stuff like TACO and ArcDPS if ANet implement Workshop support.

A lot of that functionality needs to be supported by the game first, meaning, it has to be written with steam in mind. I doubt Anet is going to rewrite their game client for steam platform to this degree, so most likely all you will end up with is the basic steam capability, which will be practically the same as you would have already after adding gw2 as a non-steam game to your steam account.

[Hotride.2187]

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Everything communicated so far indicates that steam accounts will be separate from non steam accounts and moving over the later is not possible. This is likely due to revenue reasons since steam accounts, given they are on Valves platform, will have to pay a fee to the platform (between 20-30%).

Hmmm why not sell account migration then? If its mainly a question of paying fees.

[Cyninja.2954]

9 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Hmmm why not sell account migration then? If its mainly a question of paying fees.

It's not 1 time fees. It's fees on EVERY transaction going forward. They could do that. So are you willing to pay those 20-30% extra on every purchase of gems or future expansions then?

Steam takes a cut of EVERY transaction made on their platform. In fact going as far as disallowing circumvention of these transactions via 3rd party sites. There is a good chance that regular gem cards might not work with the steam client or if they do, they will incur a fee of some sort (unless NCSoft and Valve come to an agreement here).

Again, if this was about 1 time purchase fees, I doubt there would be an issue. This is about ALL revenue generate via an account. Given Anet/NCSoft make a large majority of their revenue via gem sales, that's a significant chunk of revenue we are talking about.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Mungrul.9358]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

It's not 1 time fees. It's fees on EVERY transaction going forward. They could do that. So are you willing to pay those 20-30% extra on every purchase of gems or future expansions then?

I might be wrong, but I don't think Steam are quite so strict about this as Apple.

I don't think they ask for any revenue from store purchases made using an in-game store, but they will take a cut of anything sold through the Steam storefront using Steam Wallet.

 

At that point it very much becomes the developer / publisher's choice. If they want to participate in the wider Steam economy, where funds made selling (for example) TF2 hats can then be used to buy things in another game (or indeed, other entire games), then they can expect to pay transaction fees.

 

But if players buy gems through the in-game store, Steam receive no cut.

But it also means you probably can't sell your GW2 gear through the Steam marketplace in order to make money to buy other stuff on Steam (including games).

[Cyninja.2954]

13 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

I might be wrong, but I don't think Steam are quite so strict about this as Apple.

I don't think they ask for any revenue from store purchases made using an in-game store, but they will take a cut of anything sold through the Steam storefront using Steam Wallet.

They do. Don't assume. Read up.

Quote

At that point it very much becomes the developer / publisher's choice. If they want to participate in the wider Steam economy, where funds made selling (for example) TF2 hats can then be used to buy things in another game (or indeed, other entire games), then they can expect to pay transaction fees.

 

But if players buy gems through the in-game store, Steam receive no cut.

But it also means you probably can't sell your GW2 gear through the Steam marketplace in order to make money to buy other stuff on Steam (including games).

You are again assuming. Read up first please.

I can almost guarantee you that any gems purchased on a steam account will have money go to Valve. It's how they operate in every single other game.

EDIT:

and just to make sure in case some people might assume I dislike Steam or Valve, I do not. In fact I have a very well filled Steam account with far to many games I will never get to play. That still does not make me blissfully ignorant to how that marketplace operates.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Mungrul.9358]

Gods, you can be infuriating Cyninja. I have just read up, and everything I've read backs up what I wrote.

I knew I should have known better than to engage with you, even in good faith.

[Cyninja.2954]

6 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Gods, you can be infuriating Cyninja. I have just read up, and everything I've read backs up what I wrote.

I knew I should have known better than to engage with you, even in good faith.

Can you link a source please? Because everything I have found so far and every and all experience I have had on Steam suggests otherwise. In fact Steam only recently, with Epic entering the market, implemented even a model where thy take less than 30% of a cut (based around total revenue).

If you have some source, please feel free to share it.

 

Here is what a google search right now came up with:

Quote

 

What Does The Revenue Share Apply To?

The revenue share applies to sales of your game and any additional purchase related to your game such as DLC and in-app purchases. This also means the revenue share also applies to free-to-download games that make revenue via other aspects.

 

https://gamedevplanet.com/how-much-does-steam-take-from-sales-including-dlcs/

 

Now this information might be out of date. I'd be more than happy to get new information here. Engaging in good faith also means that both parties do so. If I was wrong and you can provide anything which supports your assumption (I mean you made the claim you had this research), that would indeed be great news and open new options for us to assume on.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Mungrul.9358]

Let's look at GTAV.

You can buy the game on Steam, and you can buy "Shark Cards" through Steam. However, you can also buy them through the Rockstar Games Launcher. Not a penny from "Shark Card" purchases made this way goes to Steam.

As mentioned in my previous post, it's only if you want your game to interact with the Steam economy and wallet that you have to pay valve a cut on IAPs.

 

Valve's own documentation, while not exactly clear, certainly implies that these fees only occur if you choose to take advantage of Steam's IAP infrastructure. It's a "Best Practice" and "Recommended", but not required.

If you don't want to integrate your existing IAPs with the Steam Marketplace, you don't have to, and you won't pay a penny to them on purchases made through that existing framework, and Steam has no way to track those purchases, as there are no API calls letting them know.

 

It's a legal field that's still in its infancy, but as it stands, no-one is obliged to pay Valve if they don't take advantage of the services they're offering.

Yes, you pay for hosting games that have direct costs associated (and I am assuming in GW2's case, this will mean Valve take a cut on an "Full Accounts" or expansions sold through Steam.

Yes, you pay for items sold directly through the Steam storefront.

But if your in-game store doesn't rely on or integrate with Steam Wallet, you don't pay Valve a cut on transactions made through it.

 

It's the same rule if you sell Steam keys for your game through your own website. In that instance, the seller receives 100% of the revenue, even though Steam is hosting the files.

[Luthan.5236]

They could also use the option to just use their normal accounts on Steam as well. Of course this is a choice. I remember some games though ... that were sold on Steam where you even had to use 3rd party stuff. Some Ubisoft thing where they had their own launcher and even forced people to use it that bought a game on Steam.

Could as well offer just the normal login screen here. Ore maybe an option to offer both - using the steam account or logging in with classic email that you used to register directly.

I always prefer a direct account - if it is possible without Steam. Steam is mainly for buying and having all games in 1 library being able to download them as needed. (No DVDs required anymore.)

Edited July 19, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Gehenna.3625]

SWTOR went live on Steam. Last year I believe. The allowed people to move over to Steam, though I don't think people did that "en masse".

And either way, I'm sure that Anet lets Steam take a cut because the increase of revenue is well worth it. Besides, most of the money is made via the gemstore which is in game. So I don't know how that works with regards to Steam. If they only get a cut from the expansions sold and some sales that are directly on Steam then I think that it's ok for Anet.

But hey, we'll see.

[Cyninja.2954]

53 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Let's look at GTAV.

You can buy the game on Steam, and you can buy "Shark Cards" through Steam. However, you can also buy them through the Rockstar Games Launcher. Not a penny from "Shark Card" purchases made this way goes to Steam.

As mentioned in my previous post, it's only if you want your game to interact with the Steam economy and wallet that you have to pay valve a cut on IAPs.

Except here there are serious limitations between Steam and non Steam versions of the game. If you have a non Steam version, you literally can't buy Shark Cards off of Steam. (which is exactly what we are talking about here, limitations between Steam and non Steam version).

I'm not 100% clear on where the exact distinctions are, but suffice to say, it depends on what the publisher and Valve agreed upon.

It might very well be that regular Shark Cards purchased via the Rockstar Store are not functional with the Steam version. Which in essence means just what I have been saying:

You are stuck to the Steam client and any purchase made through it has a fee go to Valve.

EDIT: this in fact is the exact situation we have for GW2. Non Steam versions of the game, in our case existing GW2 accounts, are not compatible with the Steam sold Shark Cards (aka in our case gems). Sure, Valve/Steam are willing to host the game and offer downloads, but in essence the non Steam accounts are NOT fully integrated. Not even for GTA5. The only issue unclear to me right now is if non Steam Shark Cards work with the Steam version. Which would only mean better news for new GW2 Steam accounts, given they'd have the option to buy off of Steam or Anet directly.

Quote

Valve's own documentation, while not exactly clear, certainly implies that these fees only occur if you choose to take advantage of Steam's IAP infrastructure. It's a "Best Practice" and "Recommended", but not required.

If you don't want to integrate your existing IAPs with the Steam Marketplace, you don't have to, and you won't pay a penny to them on purchases made through that existing framework, and Steam has no way to track those purchases, as there are no API calls letting them know.

Valve's documentation is very clear. Any time payments go through their payment system, they get a cut. The rest is handled via which version works with which microtransasction.

There is little value in not going through the Steam payment system if the applicable codes are useless on the Steam version and vice versa.

Quote

It's a legal field that's still in its infancy, but as it stands, no-one is obliged to pay Valve if they don't take advantage of the services they're offering.

True, unless you are required to use their services. Which they do in your example of GTA5 from what I was able to gather or rather the any accounts not run through Steam are incompatible to the Steam services.

Quote

Yes, you pay for hosting games that have direct costs associated (and I am assuming in GW2's case, this will mean Valve take a cut on an "Full Accounts" or expansions sold through Steam.

Yes, you pay for items sold directly through the Steam storefront.

But if your in-game store doesn't rely on or integrate with Steam Wallet, you don't pay Valve a cut on transactions made through it.

and if NCSoft can broker a deal here that say regular gem cards or expansion codes are valid on the Steam version, great. If not we are still left with the revenue loss on existing accounts.

Quote

It's the same rule if you sell Steam keys for your game through your own website. In that instance, the seller receives 100% of the revenue, even though Steam is hosting the files.

True, with the exception that Steam keys are verified and handed out by Steam in the first place and they have every right to support or limit the amount of Steam keys you can sell or give away, even for your own game/product, in regards to Steam. Chances are even very high that those "free" codes you get are either not free to the publisher/developer or are linked in number to total revenue generated so far.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Cyninja.2954