Logan and Queen Jennah or Logan and Ellen Kiel?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

10 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

GW2 needs more furry representation. 

It has a whole race of representation.

 

I of course mean the norn who become furries on will.

[draxynnic.3719]

Potential conspiracy theory: Jennah was pushing Logan away to become Pact Marshal because if he succeeds in that role, it becomes really hard for anyone to claim he doesn't deserve to be raised to nobility. Partially because it's a means of demonstrating independent leadership abilities, partially because even if the Pact formally dissolves he still has valuable diplomatic ties with several important organisations and political leaders in Tyria, and partially because being the leader of an organisation that successfully carries out a war to eliminate an existential threat to the nation is the sort of thing that patents of nobility are for.

But she needs to make him believe she doesn't care for him to go. Which is a gamble, because he might not come back... but there's a degree to which that's a win-win even if there is an outcome she'd prefer over the other. If he doesn't come back, she's free to choose someone else, preferably while she's still capable of bearing an heir (which may be later in Tyria than it is in the real world, particularly for someone with access to significant magical resources including, perhaps, Livia sneakily doing something to extend her fertility).

[Kalavier.1097]

14 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Potential conspiracy theory: Jennah was pushing Logan away to become Pact Marshal because if he succeeds in that role, it becomes really hard for anyone to claim he doesn't deserve to be raised to nobility. Partially because it's a means of demonstrating independent leadership abilities, partially because even if the Pact formally dissolves he still has valuable diplomatic ties with several important organisations and political leaders in Tyria, and partially because being the leader of an organisation that successfully carries out a war to eliminate an existential threat to the nation is the sort of thing that patents of nobility are for.

But she needs to make him believe she doesn't care for him to go. Which is a gamble, because he might not come back... but there's a degree to which that's a win-win even if there is an outcome she'd prefer over the other. If he doesn't come back, she's free to choose someone else, preferably while she's still capable of bearing an heir (which may be later in Tyria than it is in the real world, particularly for someone with access to significant magical resources including, perhaps, Livia sneakily doing something to extend her fertility).

Raise him up not just as a Seraph Captain and a hero of Destiny's Edge, but an important multi-racial political leader with vast experience.

Combo this theory with the "Jennah visits Logan under disguise" and they continue the relationship, just with Logan finally getting the hint to stop be so obvious in his affections.

 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Would have agreed with the both of you a couple of years ago, as a matter of fact I think I think I had thought this was a possibility, too cynical now.

Edited August 2, 2022 by The Greyhawk.9107

[Zola.6197]

So Rytlock was that special lady all along. 🥴

 

Move over, Jennah. There’s a new “queen” of his heart, so to speak.

 

Edit: Whoops, this was meant for an earlier comment.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Zola.6197

[Zola.6197]

@draxynnic.3719 @Kalavier.1097 I really like these ideas. I think the relationship between Jennah and Logan is still salvageable if the devs decide to make it a point of order, and I think your ideas make reasonable sense. Especially with Caudecus and the white mantle destroyed that probably removed a lot of the opposition working against her.

 

I don’t know if ANet of this era would necessarily want to tackle a plot wherein Jennah is pressured into producing an heir unless it was her autonomous choice with someone she chose. There were queens historically that never produced an heir, but she doesn’t have any living relatives we know of that could take the throne when she dies. Maybe she can adopt an heir, which I’ve seen in some fantasy stories.

 

Frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if Jenna ended up dissolving the monarchy and set up some kind of elected council, but I think royal politics are more fun in a setting like this personally.

 

But if not Logan, who else could Jennah potentially match with? Lord Faren lol? It might be interesting to see a political marriage someone related to Empress Ihn to solidify relations between Kryta and Cantha. Might be a bit extreme though.

 

Poor Ellen, we’ve barely discussed her. Has she and Logan interacted in depth? While her sleeping around doesn’t exclude her from wanting a committed relationship with someone, I don’t know if I can picture her and Logan together at this point. But if the writing is there I can buy anything lol.

[Pimsley.3681]

18 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

Poor Ellen, we’ve barely discussed her. Has she and Logan interacted in depth? While her sleeping around doesn’t exclude her from wanting a committed relationship with someone, I don’t know if I can picture her and Logan together at this point.

 

Would like discuss Ellen more. Her "attachment" to the casino guy is the only known relationship/fling that I've come across. How did you come to the conclusion that she sleeps around? I came across a forum post years ago about her sleeping around too but I may have missed a lot of the NPC dialog, which sucks. Who were her former flings and is there a wiki on her personality or dialog that she's "adventurous"?

 

I think she and Logan may be a good match however, she seems like the type to surround herself with rich, influential males. 

[Zola.6197]

13 minutes ago, Pimsley.3681 said:

 

Would like discuss Ellen more. Her "attachment" to the casino guy is the only known relationship/fling that I've come across. How did you come to the conclusion that she sleeps around? I came across a forum post years ago about her sleeping around too but I may have missed a lot of the NPC dialog, which sucks. Who were her former flings and is there a wiki on her personality or dialog that she's "adventurous"?

 

I think she and Logan may be a good match however, she seems like the type to surround herself with rich, influential males. 

She was striking up something with Zalambur at the end of PoF and in S4, but I don’t remember it too clearly. Light spoilers for EoDs I guess, but she appears at the end for the epilogue in Arborstone and has a funny voice line where she insinuates she’s hooking up with guys as she’s traveled Elona and Cantha. It was a surprising line but I loved it haha.

 

And Logan is pretty influential and powerful, so he’d fit the bill. Maybe not rich but I doubt he’s poor either. I don’t think there’s anything about Ellen’s personality that has suggested she’s only into rich men lol.

 

She has a wiki page but no idea if all her dialogue is saved there.

[Wolfb.7025]

Logan and Jenna are super cringy both in the book and in LWS1, specially Logan's blind devotion to Jenna that borderlines obsession. I dislike Jenna for being so manipulative and Logan for being so dumbminded.

Luckily after LWS1 they both behave like normal, self conscious people and stop the devotion-charade.

 

(ps: i'm criticizing both characters, not the writting).

[Kalavier.1097]

20 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

But if not Logan, who else could Jennah potentially match with? Lord Faren lol? It might be interesting to see a political marriage someone related to Empress Ihn to solidify relations between Kryta and Cantha. Might be a bit extreme though.

Funny enough, the lady in waiting in S3 instance literally suggested Faren after commenting how Logan looks better without the "obviously head over heels for Jennah" around him.

As for the other bit, the thing that instantly popped into mind that would absolutely kitten off some people (and I'd love it). Ihn and Jennah marry. 😆

 

[Zola.6197]

1 hour ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

Logan and Jenna are super cringy both in the book and in LWS1, specially Logan's blind devotion to Jenna that borderlines obsession. I dislike Jenna for being so manipulative and Logan for being so dumbminded.

Luckily after LWS1 they both behave like normal, self conscious people and stop the devotion-charade.

Not an unfair assessment. I’m just a sucker for some pining.

 

27 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Funny enough, the lady in waiting in S3 instance literally suggested Faren after commenting how Logan looks better without the "obviously head over heels for Jennah" around him.

As for the other bit, the thing that instantly popped into mind that would absolutely kitten off some people (and I'd love it). Ihn and Jennah marry. 😆

 

Oh my, I’d laugh so much if that happened. Honestly I would enjoy it, especially after all the weird and toxic threads of late.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

What weird and toxic threads?  Things are pretty normal and chill right now.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

5 hours ago, Pimsley.3681 said:

 

Would like discuss Ellen more. Her "attachment" to the casino guy is the only known relationship/fling that I've come across. How did you come to the conclusion that she sleeps around? I came across a forum post years ago about her sleeping around too but I may have missed a lot of the NPC dialog, which sucks. Who were her former flings and is there a wiki on her personality or dialog that she's "adventurous"?

 

I think she and Logan may be a good match however, she seems like the type to surround herself with rich, influential males. 

At the end of End of Dragons:

PC: Last time I saw you... How are things with Zalambur?
Captain Ellen Kiel: Oh, I had my pleasures. Elona was a good bit of fun.
Captain Ellen Kiel: I'm here in Cantha on official business, but I wouldn't mind sampling the local...snacks.
Captain Ellen Kiel: On an unrelated note, who's the gentleman with the big hat? I'd appreciate an introduction.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Cycle,_Reborn#At_Arborstone_2

Basically confirms her thing with Zalambur is over, and that she intends to find some Canthans to sleep with, while eyeing up Rama (I'm 95% sure that wasn't an unrelated note).

Edited August 3, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[anninke.7469]

11 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

...

Oh my, I’d laugh so much if that happened. Honestly I would enjoy it, especially after all the weird and toxic threads of late.

Well yeah. And they could both have the needed heirs made with jade tech by Joon and everything would be fine... Yeah.

[Zola.6197]

59 minutes ago, anninke.7469 said:

Well yeah. And they could both have the needed heirs made with jade tech by Joon and everything would be fine... Yeah.

I for one welcome our new jade tech cyborg overlords.

[anninke.7469]

7 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

I for one welcome our new jade tech cyborg overlords.

It could actually end up really interesting. I just don't see how it would be any more politically acceptable than Jennah producing the heir with Logan. Which apparently was totally out of question.

[Kalavier.1097]

9 hours ago, anninke.7469 said:

Well yeah. And they could both have the needed heirs made with jade tech by Joon and everything would be fine... Yeah.

I mean, even without that we've had same-sex couples shown with children and no indication of former spouses. Like the Sunspear on Jahai mourning her dead child and wife.

57 minutes ago, anninke.7469 said:

It could actually end up really interesting. I just don't see how it would be any more politically acceptable than Jennah producing the heir with Logan. Which apparently was totally out of question.

Logan is, by status, Commoner. He is not a noble in title or blood.

On 8/2/2022 at 11:40 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Potential conspiracy theory: Jennah was pushing Logan away to become Pact Marshal because if he succeeds in that role, it becomes really hard for anyone to claim he doesn't deserve to be raised to nobility. Partially because it's a means of demonstrating independent leadership abilities, partially because even if the Pact formally dissolves he still has valuable diplomatic ties with several important organisations and political leaders in Tyria, and partially because being the leader of an organisation that successfully carries out a war to eliminate an existential threat to the nation is the sort of thing that patents of nobility are for.

But she needs to make him believe she doesn't care for him to go. Which is a gamble, because he might not come back... but there's a degree to which that's a win-win even if there is an outcome she'd prefer over the other. If he doesn't come back, she's free to choose someone else, preferably while she's still capable of bearing an heir (which may be later in Tyria than it is in the real world, particularly for someone with access to significant magical resources including, perhaps, Livia sneakily doing something to extend her fertility).

To bounce back to this, and maybe add a layer onto this?

With Logan going to the Pact Marshal spot, he gains rep/skills/feats that cannot be tied back to Jennah. As we know, he joined the Seraph after his brother (A captain) died defending Jennah. So while he's decent enough as a Seraph Captain, he got the job from Jennah, and it can be tainted with well... "He got the rank cause his brother's death/Jennah favors him." So elevating him to Nobility would possibly spark a "Why not raise all Seraph captains to nobility then? Do they not deserve it for service to the crown?" type question I imagine.

Pact Marshall, he gets all these great traits, skills, and contacts + rep, and zero of it can be waved aside as "Well, Jennah is bumping up his career because she's always liked him in some manner since they met in Lion's Arch." or "He's doing that just because he wants to look good for Jennah."

He's got great army leading skills, diplomatic contacts and ability, multi-faction/species joint forces expertise, Vs just "Was guardian in Destiny's Edge, which was a great guild, and Captain of the Seraph, so  military expertise."

reason this popped into head was Kasmeer really. Anise/Jennah basically offer her nobility restored, after she proves herself a very useful ally/talent for the Throne. It seems like while Jennah can just promote anybody to nobility, she does *at least appear* have to have a reason for it, and all.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Kalavier.1097

[draxynnic.3719]

Yeah, that's pretty much the point. Raising Logan to nobility without some truly independent achievement can be accused as being the result of favouritism - sure, he was the "first among equals" of the Seraph captains, but who put him there?

Being the Pact Marshal, though, that's something that people can't say he received because of Jennah, and if anyone makes that accusation Jennah can turn around and ask if there was any other Krytan citizen who'd presided over an organisation that prosecuted successful campaigns against three Elder Dragons, would there really be any objections? The diplomatic contacts are an added benefit, since there's precedent in Kasmeer for people to be raised to court if they have suitable assets to offer to the throne to justify it.

Edited August 4, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

The entire "Logan has gotten over the Queen and is dating someone else" thing is a just a giant ploy between Logan and Jennah to let him stay Pact Marshal long enough, and get enough achievements under his belt, to raise him to nobility, so they can get married without it seeming it was obvious that she gave him nobility just so she could marry him.

 

[Pimsley.3681]

On 8/4/2022 at 3:40 AM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

At the end of End of Dragons:

PC: Last time I saw you... How are things with Zalambur?
Captain Ellen Kiel: Oh, I had my pleasures. Elona was a good bit of fun.
Captain Ellen Kiel: I'm here in Cantha on official business, but I wouldn't mind sampling the local...snacks.
Captain Ellen Kiel: On an unrelated note, who's the gentleman with the big hat? I'd appreciate an introduction.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Cycle,_Reborn#At_Arborstone_2

Basically confirms her thing with Zalambur is over, and that she intends to find some Canthans to sleep with, while eyeing up Rama (I'm 95% sure that wasn't an unrelated note).

 

I read the dialogue. Geez, referring to men as "snacks" - it's fair to say she's a maneater? Or does she mean people in general, including females too? It's hard to gauge but from her past behavior, she's likely into men...and I don't think Logan is safe with her.  

[Pimsley.3681]

On 8/3/2022 at 10:54 PM, Zola.6197 said:

She was striking up something with Zalambur at the end of PoF and in S4, but I don’t remember it too clearly. Light spoilers for EoDs I guess, but she appears at the end for the epilogue in Arborstone and has a funny voice line where she insinuates she’s hooking up with guys as she’s traveled Elona and Cantha. It was a surprising line but I loved it haha.

 

And Logan is pretty influential and powerful, so he’d fit the bill. Maybe not rich but I doubt he’s poor either. I don’t think there’s anything about Ellen’s personality that has suggested she’s only into rich men lol.

 

She has a wiki page but no idea if all her dialogue is saved there.

 

She seems like a "player" hmmm I don't want to get a warning but a bit on the promiscuous end. Maybe she'll find a guy who will settle with her but not sure if he will be a man of virtue. She likes having fun though, good for her. Not sure if Logan is a good pick. Just keeping things with the theme of the thread. Jenna and Ellen are both not so good for Logan