Return our second dodge and fix mesmers!

[Waffles.5632]

On 6/15/2023 at 9:00 PM, ventress.4879 said:

Well Chronomancer was once the only class that could provide group Alacrity and decent Quickness so any attempt at re-imagining that Elite will never bring it back to its former glory. 

Being able to dodge even while stunned or rooted to avoid all the in comming damage will never come back. Atleast I can admit that and not live in the past like you lot are. 

How many month has this thread been going? Just play another game or OP class untill that is nerfed. 

 

On 6/15/2023 at 4:14 AM, Varis.5467 said:

God-tier logic right there 🤣

 

[Varis.5467]

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

 

 

Ow don't quote me 🤣

[Waffles.5632]

I wanted to type my own response, but yours was already too perfect!

[ventress.4879]

3 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

 

 

@Waffles.5632 I'm not mad or anything so it all good, I agree with you in alot other threads. 

Im just so delusional about any fix I don't know why any of you even bother trying to argue. Just let them do what they want with Mirage. 

Its dead and will always be dead. No second dodge will bring it back, the rest of the player base probably want more nerfs so expect that next patch. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by ventress.4879

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, ventress.4879 said:

@Waffles.5632 I'm not mad or anything so it all good, I agree with you alot other threads. 

Im just so delusional about any fix I don't know any of you even bother trying to argue. Just let them do what they want with Mirage. 

Its dead and will always be dead. No second dodge will bring it back, the rest of the player base probably want more nerfs so expect that next patch. 

Its not about them fixing mesmer, because they will never do that.
Its about  looking them in the eyes and calling out the devs for being full of kitten.

[Varis.5467]

3 hours ago, ventress.4879 said:

@Waffles.5632 I'm not mad or anything so it all good, I agree with you in alot other threads. 

Im just so delusional about any fix I don't know why any of you even bother trying to argue. Just let them do what they want with Mirage. 

Its dead and will always be dead. No second dodge will bring it back, the rest of the player base probably want more nerfs so expect that next patch. 

Just because you don't want to talk about it doesn't mean the rest of us are not allowed to. 

If you find the continuation of this thread offensive to you, you should keep in mind you have no obligation to read any of this nor to comment. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Varis.5467

[Waffles.5632]

I'm 100% with @Leonidrex.5649 and others.

I feel either CMC just plays cata and nerfs whatever he loses to, or he's listening to someone else who plays cata that wants to nerf everything they lose to.

Not to mention on the PvE side of things Mirages just received a straight nerf for no reason at all. No compensation either, just a big fat steamy dish of 💩💩💩 while CMC smiles and laughs saying it's okay to eat it.

It's beyond insulting at this point, and even though the effect is small, trust me when I say CMC is directly causing Anet to lose out on money with these changes. I'm not the only one that has stopped buying gems and playing pvp because of CMC I know that for sure.

PvP is at it's lowest population ever, it's abysmal, and there's absolutely no incentive for any new players to join. You simply can't have a healthy game mode when the devs are this unprofessional and biased. He's a hypocrite and I mean that fully. On one hand he takes care of ele with objectively good changes (mostly) and on the other he just defecates all over certain classes like Mirage, and now Necro+ others.

There's a reason so many players are united in their disgust of these changes, because enough is enough already.

 

 

[Veprovina.4876]

It's either that @Waffles.5632, or some whale is buying so much gems and playing cata, that Anet isn't afraid of losing more gem buyers to accomodate that whale. 😛

[Waffles.5632]

Well it finally happened.

After 3 years Mirage has it's second dodge back, at the cost of part of it's soul.

 

Funny things now to mention after 10+ pvp games;

- You can no longer Mirage Cloak while in mid-air, lol

- There is some jankiness I'm feeling when double dodging back to back

- Being CC'd isn't as big of an issue as being immob'd, this needs to be changed ASAP. CC is fine, I've accepted it, begrudgingly. Immob I can never accept, especially because Mirage Cloak doesn't move you so it's like a dipping nerf

- Being evasive is more important than ever as now Mirage can get chain CC'd and immob'd and be blown up with little to no way to recover. We already lack proper sustain and swiftness/movement speed. You need to not get hit ever. That is the goal.

- Power Mirage is finally playable again, not meta, not even off meta, I am feeling D/C/B tier, somewhere in there but it's hard to tell because balance is completely out of whack atm and new weapon combo's will be coming out soon.

- I have already seen more power mirages and mirages in general in this short time of pvp than I have the previous 3 years.

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread, thanks @Veprovina.4876 for starting it! It was always something I looked for when visiting these forums. Double Dodge Mirage ftw!

[DeceiverX.8361]

Mirage cloak now suffers the same effects of all other professions' dodges and y'all are still losing your minds lol.

Cleanse/Stunbreak, distort, teleport, or die.  That's how it is for pretty much everyone else.  You shouldn't get two dodges and immunity to dodge-negating effects after-the-fact to negate burst pattern and setup plays by your opponents.  That'd literally be stronger than Daredevil's dodge, since DrD can't recover endurance when running the trait to do that, and only handles immob.

Bigger issue here is honestly that you can't burst people down anymore based on what core/mirage offer alone, nor can you trade their offensive cooldowns into your defensive ones and then burst them down.

Defensive boons on your opponents and a sustain-heavy meta with low damage are still what's holding Mirage back more than changes to MC/EM now being legitimately fair to play against in terms of mechanics design.

[Waffles.5632]

On 6/28/2023 at 2:00 AM, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Mirage cloak now suffers the same effects of all other professions' dodges and y'all are still losing your minds lol.

Cleanse/Stunbreak, distort, teleport, or die.  That's how it is for pretty much everyone else.  You shouldn't get two dodges and immunity to dodge-negating effects after-the-fact to negate burst pattern and setup plays by your opponents.  That'd literally be stronger than Daredevil's dodge, since DrD can't recover endurance when running the trait to do that, and only handles immob.

Bigger issue here is honestly that you can't burst people down anymore based on what core/mirage offer alone, nor can you trade their offensive cooldowns into your defensive ones and then burst them down.

Defensive boons on your opponents and a sustain-heavy meta with low damage are still what's holding Mirage back more than changes to MC/EM now being legitimately fair to play against in terms of mechanics design.

The bait is more obvious with every new poster that comes here, weirdly enough, they only started showing up recently... 🤔

[Leonidrex.5649]

44 minutes ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Mirage cloak now suffers the same effects of all other professions' dodges and y'all are still losing your minds lol.

Cleanse/Stunbreak, distort, teleport, or die.  That's how it is for pretty much everyone else.  You shouldn't get two dodges and immunity to dodge-negating effects after-the-fact to negate burst pattern and setup plays by your opponents.  That'd literally be stronger than Daredevil's dodge, since DrD can't recover endurance when running the trait to do that, and only handles immob.

Bigger issue here is honestly that you can't burst people down anymore based on what core/mirage offer alone, nor can you trade their offensive cooldowns into your defensive ones and then burst them down.

Defensive boons on your opponents and a sustain-heavy meta with low damage are still what's holding Mirage back more than changes to MC/EM now being legitimately fair to play against in terms of mechanics design.

the difference is that other classes can load their classes with stun-breaks, stability and cleanses and still be usefull, while mesmers cleanse is absolute garbage and taking any makes you unable to do damage. so as usual mesmer will be forced to run 3x dps traitlines with 0 healing, 0 utility and 0 cleanse and only way to play will be the suicide bomber chrono that blows people up with moa, which people will whine about and we will be back here again in 3 months with yet another nerf,

[DeceiverX.8361]

20 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

The bait is more obvious with every new poster that comes here, weirdly enough, they only started showing up recently... 🤔

I've literally said this for longer than you've had an account lol.  Sorry you're a new poster and wouldn't know.

19 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

the difference is that other classes can load their classes with stun-breaks, stability and cleanses and still be usefull, while mesmers cleanse is absolute garbage and taking any makes you unable to do damage. so as usual mesmer will be forced to run 3x dps traitlines with 0 healing, 0 utility and 0 cleanse and only way to play will be the suicide bomber chrono that blows people up with moa, which people will whine about and we will be back here again in 3 months with yet another nerf,

I literally addressed this in my post as part of being unable to trade out defensive cooldowns for their offensive ones.  The core mesmer play pattern sits right now in a state where it's designed to 100-0 and can't because of boons and the current meta, while not possessing the resources in its build options to actually negate being locked down between those phases because it invariably can't make a 100-0 play.

This being an overarching mesmer problem unrestricted to mirage doesn't make the old Mirage Cloak a good thing as an answer, though.

This is the mesmer version of SA thief that camped stsealth, which I advocated changing to remove sustained stealth for a decade with the same criticisms from the thief community of "But the class is weak without it!"  Which yes, it was.  Then in reworking SA, the class was buffed by having actually strong and useful mechanics broad-spectrum.  Is the weak stuff still weak?  Yes.  But the class is more robust as a whole and feels better to play against than it used to while letting bad players get deservedly killed.

If people advocate keeping a busted OP mechanic without counterplay as a cornerstone of their profession, the rest of the profession is going to be kneecapped, because the profession will be designed and balanced entirely around that mechanic defining and driving all competitive play and its effects on reducing agency to others.  The moment said profession then also gets extra power budget comparable to others, it then phases out those it can.  Which historically, it did, because of this exact mechanic in an era where a 100-0 play pattern was still possible.

So yeah, I'm not arguing that Mirage and even core mesmer are fine.  I'm arguing that answering those problems with a busted OP version of the dodge mechanic instead of fixing core-profession-level issues with its burst and defensive patterns is the wrong answer to the right problems which just masks symptoms at the expense of the rest of the class.

Edited June 29, 2023 by DeceiverX.8361

[katte nici.9483]

Ok so let's give all Mesmer builds an immob remove on F2 or something like that.

[Curunen.8729]

On 6/29/2023 at 3:32 PM, katte nici.9483 said:

Ok so let's give all Mesmer builds an immob remove on F2 or something like that.

On a serious note mesmer could do with specific condi removal on abilities - particularly immob/chill/cripple.

Right now it's still either spam of indiscriminate removals, or little to nothing depending how you build - ie go all in with Inspiration, and if mirage then elusive mind and almost be equivalent to an old diamond skin ele, or go dom/duelling and play to avoid everything or die.

Easy start - sand through glass removes immob (this being a fix, not a buff)

Alternatively as I saw a suggestion elsewhere in the forum, bundle immob with other cc and have it be removed by stunbreaks.

 

Edit - sadly I have almost zero time to play since the patch so can't comment from testing.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Curunen.8729