All the best players play mechanist...

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Well if you don't want to listen to common sense from multiple people on the forums what can we do? We'll see you in the next patch Obtena, aka Mechlovin

True ... I trust my own eyes of what is ACTUALLY happening in game and Anet's pattern of behaviour over the history of the game to get insight  before any rando's crystal ball 'common sense' predictions about how the things they hate are (apparently by coincidence 🙄) the worst thing to ever happen in the game and need to be nerfed. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

58 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

/True ... I trust my own eyes of what is ACTUALLY happening in game and Anet's pattern of behaviour over the history of the game before any rando's crystal ball 'common sense' predictions about how the things they hate are (apparently by coincidence 🙄) the worst thing to ever happen in the game. 

You understand you are the 'rando' here, don't you? Because you have a different opinion on the issue than 80%-90% of the playerbase.

Now, thanks to the fact that 80%-90% of the playerbase uses common sense, you have just seen a new post by grouch that says they have reassessed their balancing philosophy PRECISELY to address the pug meta and what the average party in gw2 does, in direct contrast to how they have operated in the past and in line with that common sense, but you choose to ignore this information completely. You don't see the problem here, do you?

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

 Because you have a different opinion on the issue than 80%-90% of the playerbase.

You don't know that ... but nice confirmation bias you got going there. It's also telling you think Anet just does something because 80-90% of the people think it should be done.

It's OK, I will continue to live in reality. Power rifle mechs are a thing here. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You don't know that ... but nice confirmation bias you got going there. 

I have counted the people on forums wanting mech nerfed and those who say it doesn't need a nerf. I was being generous in my assessment.

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Power rifle mechs are a the only thing here (for me). 

There, I fixed that for you to better express what you meant.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I have counted the people on forums wanting mech nerfed and those who say it doesn't need a nerf. I was being generous in my assessment.

That nice you counted and you are so generous (to yourself apparently). That still doesn't make what you said true. I mean, just like stacking, I guess you don't know what confirmation bias is either.  

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That nice you counted. That still doesn't make what you said true. 

Do you know how statistics work?

[Obtena.7952]

31 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Do you know how statistics work?

Yup I sure do ... and I know enough to know that the FEW people you counted on the forum isn't a statistically significant sample to represent all the people who play the game ... but sure, tell me I don't know about statistics either. Ironically, counting JUST the people that post on the forums is another form of bias ... 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[soul.9651]

4 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Do you know how statistics work?

Just report him and move on, this guy is just a perfect example of a troll

[Karagee.6830]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup I sure do ... and I know enough to know that the FEW people you counted ont he forum isn't statistically significant to the people who play the game ... but sure, tell me I don't know about statistics. 

exactly how polls also never work and are wildly inaccurate because there is no relationship between samples and distributions. Oh, wait.

Let's recap the facts:

Fact 1) A single elite specialisation (out of 27) has 26% representation

Fact 2) The overwhelming majority thinks this is not ok and should be brought in line (and note that in this case, the vocal people are very much what matters and the fact that Anet already radically changed their approach is also a clear indication of this)

Your argument is that, despite the above, you think I'm making baseless statements based on some imaginary world. Okay mate: do you agree that we will see who is right and who is wrong in the following patch, because it's going to go one way or the other?

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Obtena.7952]

15 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

exactly how polls also never work and are wildly inaccurate because there is no relationship between samples and distributions. Oh, wait.

Counting forum people isn't anything like a poll. The people that post are at BEST, a biased sample, mostly towards dislike. But sure, tell me all about how you know statistics and how it works please. 

Quote

Let's recap the facts:

Fact 1) A single elite specialisation (out of 27) has 26% representation

Yup no debate. 

Quote

Fact 2) The overwhelming majority thinks this is not ok (and note that in this case, the vocal people are very much what matters and the fact that Anet already radically changed their approach is also a clear indication of this)

Not true. You have no idea how many people thinks mechanist is not OK. If the use numbers are any indication though, there are actually LOTS of people that have no problem with playing mechanist and probably a significant number of those people don't think it's a problem. Probably around ... 26% give or take. 

Quote

Your argument is that, ...

There isn't anything to agree with you here. Anet will do what they want based on the direction they want the game to go. If power rifle mechanist was THE problem here, they would nerf on Aug 23rd. Instead we see the other stacking mechanist builds getting nerfed so ... I guess that tells us ALOT about what Anet thinks of these builds. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Mike.7983]

Report/block and move on, can't argue with trolls.  

Edited August 19, 2022 by Mike.7983

[Karagee.6830]

14 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Counting forum people isn't anything like a poll. 

Yup no debate. 

Not true. You have no idea how many people thinks mechanist is not OK. If the use numbers are accurate though, there are actually LOTS of people that have no problem with playing mechanist. 26% to be clear. 

Alas, no, nothing you said there was my argument. 

You are right and if you make a poll on whether Mechanist should be brought in line, it would receive way more than 90%. The (very) few that don't want nerfs are asking for ALL other afk and LI builds to be buffed instead, imagine that.

You seem to ignore that we've not seen stacking on this level since...we've never seen it, even when we had only 9 elite specialisations. Many of the people who play mechanist are among those who think it should be nerfed. Playing the most convenient build available is a perfectly rational choice and doesn't make them delusional.

You also seem to be very confused about that 26%. Nobody is saying that mechanist has the highest benchmark. Nobody is saying you cannot play inferior specs to mechanist. This is why mechanist is 'only' 26%. However, because Anet's devs team has finally realised that top-end stacking of catalyst or bladesworn is irrelevant for 99.99% of the players in this game, while having 1 specialisation taking over 1/4 of the spots in the average raid is a problem, you are out of luck. 

I like how you dodged the point that one of us will be vindicated in the follow up patch. At this point I have to agree with others you have absolutely nothing constructive to add other than sneakily inserting borderline insults in your posts.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

You are right and if you make a poll on whether Mechanist should be brought in line, it would receive way more than 90%.

No, you don't know that. I'm not ignoring we haven't seen stacking at this level. I just understand it's not the power rifle build that is contributing to the stacking because it doesn't provide the features that stack. It's literally just a DPS totem. If there is any vindication, it's that the build exists already and being used to enable LI players to engage in the content and there isn't an indication it will get nerfed on Aug 23rd . 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

14 minutes ago, Mike.7983 said:

Report/block and move on, Obtena is good at causing account point penaltys for argueing against it seems.

Can we report for trolling? I agree this is probably trolling.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

No, you don't know that. I'm not ignoring we haven't seen stacking at this level. I just understand it's not the power rifle build that is contributing to the stacking because it doesn't provide the features that stack. It's literally just a DPS totem. 

I don't care about power rifle mr strawman.

[soul.9651]

1 minute ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Can we report for trolling?

Yep its one of the options

[Karagee.6830]

Just now, soul.9651 said:

Yep its one of the options

yeah I just saw I'm pretty sure I have been insulted also.

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I don't care about power rifle mr strawman.

Great, then what's the fuss you make about the DPS the LI build makes then? 

Aug 23rd has changes that reduce the effectiveness of the builds people are stacking mechanist with. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Karagee.6830]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Great, then what's the fuss? Aug 23rd has changes that reduce the effectiveness of the builds people are stacking mechanist with. 

Don't worry, it's all good. You seem to be well known around here lol. I am very confident what I say will happen, not least because people will continue to complain about it in large numbers. Despite all the evidence and common sense you see things differently. Good for you. It's good to be different.

Good luck.

 

[Tails.9372]

4 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Because you have a different opinion on the issue than 80%-90% of the playerbase.

This is not about "opinion", if 90% of people were of the opinion that the moon is made out of cheese then this wouldn't magically turn the moon into cheese.

Same here, people can cry about how they think that the fabled "AFK support rifle mechanist" tops every DPS chart on all encounters all the time but that doesn't mean that this actually reflects reality just because people want it to.

The thing is: the lower the skill level of the player group is the more impactful less demanding builds become. This should really not be a surprise to anyone. Which also relates to why some PuG commanders ask their DPS to play rifle mech. It's not because they think that rifle mech is super awesome unique special or anything but because they just don't trust the randoms that join their PuGs so they're not taking any chances if they can help it and nerfing the mech is not going to fix this issue (quite the opposite). Raising the general skill floor however would.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Gorem.8104]

More like, its the best class for most open worlders to play cause you can't die, and you don't even have to know how to play it and still can beat a majority of the playerbase. 

[Dadnir.5038]

A few weeks ago we had people saying: "Harbinger just spam AA and have incredible survivability! Please nerf!" (I'm pretty sure many people still think that)

In a few weeks (if mechanist is brought down from it's current spot) you'll have the same people saying: "[insert e-spec] just spam [whatever] and break the game! Please nerf!"

This is just how things goes on this forum after all. Prior to Harbinger I'm pretty sure Scourge, Renegade, Holosmith, Soulbeast, Mirage, Chronomancer... etc. received the same negative "feedback" at one point or another. And I'm pretty sure we will see similar "feedback" in the futur for Specter, Bladesworn... etc.

The question is: "Is it really as bad as you think it is to have a dominant mechanist in the meta?"

If it is as easy as people say, then it mean PvE end game can see an increase of activity. More group/raid become succesful, which mean less player are frustrated while some even began to enjoy this part of the game. More people enjoying what they do lead to less toxicity between players... etc. All in all, you could say that it's supposed to be a virtuous circle.

On another hand, what do we see in this forum? People saying that 80-90% of the playerbase is unhappy because "mechanist is to easy". Do people want to have a semi deserted end game that only a few play until they are sick of it to the point that they look for another game? Or maybe it's just "jealousy" that this particular spec is popular while [favourite spec] isn't?

Can we look at the game a bit more positively instead of quickly stygmatising anything that become a bit succesfull as soon as it appear?

[Karagee.6830]

7 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The question is: "Is it really as bad as you think it is to have a dominant mechanist in the meta?"

If it is as easy as people say, then it mean PvE end game can see an increase of activity. More group/raid become succesful, which mean less player are frustrated while some even began to enjoy this part of the game. More people enjoying what they do lead to less toxicity between players... etc.

The answer is obviously yes. You can't see how toxic this specialisation is and that's ok. There haa never been a specialisation crushing the pug meta like this before in this game.

LI intensity builds always existed and were perfectly fine. What didn't happen is that raid leaders asked people to take those builds over anything else. THIS is toxic. Now you fixed inclusivity and (in theory) allowed more people to be able to clear content....by forcing players to play this toxic build. Is it progress because literally anyone can play it, even with one hand? No it's not progress, at least not the right kind. At best, you partially solved a problem and created another one. The trade-off between convenience and ease-of-play and effectiveness must be real, otherwise you will always end up in a situation where 1 espec dominates, 6 are viable and featured in the meta and 20 are useless or non-existent.

A lot of players already quit after the 28/6 patch. New people from steam will pick classes they like, they won't pick based on raids. Engi has always been the no. 1 most disliked and least played class. Guess what will happen when people will ask them to reroll, level again from 1 to 80 and gear a mechanist for endgame content?

Edited August 20, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Voyant.1327]

On 8/20/2022 at 3:18 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

The question is: "Is it really as bad as you think it is to have a dominant mechanist in the meta?"

Yes.

1) Jade Mechs are beyond hideous and the more in game the worse the game looks. People avoided GW2 because of the "Steampunk" and now....

2) People are actively trying to avoid the class bc of how cheese/meme it feels. Whether its dropping groups, "No Mech" in LFG, or just new players being discouraged that their Mech friend is doing double their damage with 1/4 the effort. All of these things actively hurt the community in one way or another. Mechs becoming equated to trolls for example.

3) Automatic Rifles when everyone else is lucky to get a six shot revolver. Plain and simple if one button is 90% of your damage. Its the literal "I win" button that every one rightfully trashes. Have to reward people for being invested and being loyal to the game. Mechanist goes "yeah I don't care if you're more skilled, have better gear or stats, I've got an AK & a giant mech in case my win button isn't enough."

Its just a glaring example of what went wrong in June's patch and has yet to be fixed & they're about to get buffed...

They don't need nuked to the ground just given the same treatment other classes got when they were in the situation. Virtuoso had a bleed proc removed for example to bring it down into the 30s from 40s. Adjust the rifle the same way. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Voyant.1327

[Tails.9372]

Quote

 Jade Mechs are beyond hideous and the more in gane the worse the game looks.

That is the only common complaint which is both valid and actually "the fault of the mech". The solutions here however would be to A: make the mech dyeable, B: offer us some mech skins or C.: at least least give us the option to hide allied minions / pets and make "don't show" the default. Preferably all 3.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Tails.9372