Staff & Axe Nerfs

[Lion.6590]

13 hours ago, Stavros.8249 said:

The previous specs can't be better than the last expansion specs, cause people won't buy it. 

Guess what, there are specs from PoF that outperform EoD ones, so this argument makes absolutely no sense.

I really wish that people would stop saying that because if regardless if the EoD elite specs are op or not, people will buy it anyway because it is the most recent content of the game.

[AshkyLicious.4729]

On 8/15/2022 at 11:33 PM, JasonLucas.4981 said:

Guess what, there are specs from PoF that outperform EoD ones, so this argument makes absolutely no sense.

I really wish that people would stop saying that because if regardless if the EoD elite specs are op or not, people will buy it anyway because it is the most recent content of the game.

New expansion is always the newest shiny thing, if you're invested in the game you're going to want to buy it. The important part is to keep old expansions relevant, so people have a reason to buy them, which generates up-sell for Anet. I wish people could stop saying these things aswell, no reason to justify their bad decisions!

Edited August 17, 2022 by AshkyLicious.4729

[LKEY.9567]

I hate the approach that we should play the latest specs only. Agree. Mirage is still nowhere near as popular as Virtuoso, netiher is dominant as the latest. I really don't understand this nerf, it doesn't make sense.

 

[voodoo.7412]

Well this may hurt for condi/support and no change in alac may still be good for fract CM or strikes.

But to be honest as mesmer main the condi virtuoso is better as dmg if you have anet golden boy the Mech.

I run both Btw in Fract CM depend if alac needed or dps.

Edited August 16, 2022 by voodoo.7412

[TheDraco.3965]

Good way to remove Mirage from Fractals entirely.

[Veilmourne.9873]

Is this why my damage has suddenly become lower in pvp? 

[Mell.4873]

4 hours ago, Veilmourne.9873 said:

Is this why my damage has suddenly become lower in pvp? 

No

[Mike.7983]

Axe/Staff nerf is a direct slap in the face to any mesmer/mirage, why is mech so overpowered and they pick on the little guy again.  If they wont nerf mechs asap they need to start buffing everyone else up, game is turning into a joke with how many mechs are running around. Open world mirage will endure and survive the hit to both weps, for structured group content either bring mech or be kicked will be the new norm going forward.  Right in time for steam launch to.

[Salt Mode.3780]

32 minutes ago, Mike.7983 said:

Axe/Staff nerf is a direct slap in the face to any mesmer/mirage, why is mech so overpowered and they pick on the little guy again.  If they wont nerf mechs asap they need to start buffing everyone else up, game is turning into a joke with how many mechs are running around. Open world mirage will endure and survive the hit to both weps, for structured group content either bring mech or be kicked will be the new norm going forward.  Right in time for steam launch to.

The game is already a joke with the Feb patch. I've said it many times and it will always be right, they nerfed Mesmer clones and phantasms with the excuse that they don't want AI to do the work, yet we have Mech running around doing more then half their dps. Vindicator is a slap to one dodge Mirage because clearly they know how to work a class around one dodge, yet when Mirage's dodge was remove they did nothing to improve it.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, Mike.7983 said:

Axe/Staff nerf is a direct slap in the face to any mesmer/mirage, why is mech so overpowered and they pick on the little guy again.  If they wont nerf mechs asap they need to start buffing everyone else up, game is turning into a joke with how many mechs are running around. Open world mirage will endure and survive the hit to both weps, for structured group content either bring mech or be kicked will be the new norm going forward.  Right in time for steam launch to.

I believe they have grand plan to buff and nerf certain playstyles(they said this much at least). The Mirage just got in the firing line of that plan.

My guess is the plan has something to do with making power builds stronger but if that is true then why was a nerf to Condition Mirage involved?

Edited August 17, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Gibson.4036]

I've been playing my poor Mirage as much as possible before next Tuesday.

 Then she'll have to decide if she hangs up her Axe and submits to ArenaNet's desire that she become a pink dagger not-Mesmer.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[ArjukKagrim.6049]

There are several bosses (hello SH and Lagos) where Mirage heavily outperforms every other class, even if played sub-optimally. At those bosses hardly any other build (cept for Condi-Mecha, which is also nerfed) is used in serious comps. Imo this is enough reason that this damage reduction is absolutely justified. Mirage will remain top performer at those bosses even after the patch.

[draxynnic.3719]

If there are two encounters in the game where Mirage is really good, I'm not convinced that's a justification to nerf it across the entire game. They've already nerfed Confusion in general against those encounters, as well as Torment now being weaker against them since both encounters involve a lot of movement.

And, again, if that IS the intent, they should say so rather than trying to tell us that some inconsequential staff buffs require significant DPS nerfs to balance them out.

[godfat.2604]

Given the logic that ceiling should remain the same for all the specs amongst everything, we’ll end up with only specs which can shine everywhere can survive. Oh yes, that’s Firebrand and Mechanist. Coincident? I don’t think so.

[Gibson.4036]

23 hours ago, ArjukKagrim.6049 said:

There are several bosses (hello SH and Lagos) where Mirage heavily outperforms every other class, even if played sub-optimally. At those bosses hardly any other build (cept for Condi-Mecha, which is also nerfed) is used in serious comps. Imo this is enough reason that this damage reduction is absolutely justified. Mirage will remain top performer at those bosses even after the patch.

Surely there must be a way to adjust those two bosses rather than impact the rest of the 99% of the game for Mirage.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Salt Mode.3780]

3 hours ago, ArjukKagrim.6049 said:

There are several bosses (hello SH and Lagos) where Mirage heavily outperforms every other class, even if played sub-optimally. At those bosses hardly any other build (cept for Condi-Mecha, which is also nerfed) is used in serious comps. Imo this is enough reason that this damage reduction is absolutely justified. Mirage will remain top performer at those bosses even after the patch.

So several boss namely 2 is the justification for the nerf...this isn't a Mirage problem, this is a boss encounter being made poorly problem. Even after the nerfs if Mirage HEAVILY outperforms other classes, all it will do is make the kill time lower because Mirage will still HEAVILY outperform other classes for those fights.

Your logic for balance is quite strange.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, ArjukKagrim.6049 said:

There are several bosses (hello SH and Lagos) where Mirage heavily outperforms every other class, even if played sub-optimally. At those bosses hardly any other build (cept for Condi-Mecha, which is also nerfed) is used in serious comps. Imo this is enough reason that this damage reduction is absolutely justified. Mirage will remain top performer at those bosses even after the patch.

To some of extent you are wasting your breath here since no one will listen. 

Honestly though the nerf does seem very small and I don't use the same meta build for my Mirage so I don't know how im affected until the patch comes out.

It is a bit strange to see a nerf but like I said Arena Net must have some reason for it. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Mell.4873

[LKEY.9567]

Mirage is outdpsed at Largos and SH by condi Mechanist, though.

[LKEY.9567]

Really amazing input in Reddit post by the user "Opposedsum", really great summary.

ANet dev, please, please, please, take a look at this post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/wqsjd3/about_the_mirage_nerfs_and_anets_balace_framework/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[AshkyLicious.4729]

Added the link in my post in the their patch preview thread! I really hope they read the reddit post 🙏🏼

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/119412-august-23-balance-update-preview/?do=findComment&comment=1734261

Edited August 17, 2022 by AshkyLicious.4729

[Mike.7983]

Really funny how they revert the fb wvw change nerf before next week as it would negativly impact the game, but sure go ahead and live fire 2 mirage pve nerfs cause reasons.  Not like they already stole 1 dodge from us.  

 

Hi everyone, here's a quick update:

 

Last week’s preview included a significant change to the firebrand skill Manta of Liberation in World vs World – a decrease in ammunition count and an increase to recharge time. Since then, we’ve seen a lot of concern that the reduced access to AoE stability and group stun breaks will negatively impact WvW gameplay due to the sheer amount of crowd control in large-scale fights.

 

We agree with the feedback and have reverted these changes in WvW for this release. We do believe that firebrand brings too much to the table in WvW and plan to tone it down in a future update, but we recognize that this will need to come with changes that improve access to AoE stability and group stun breaks for other professions. We want to spread these tools around to other professions to improve team composition and support role diversity, without reducing the overall availability of these tools.

 

Thanks,

Cal “cmc” Cohen
Game Designer – Skills and Balance

 

Honestly seeing this excuse is sickening to my stomach, the whole point of a nerf is to lower the dominating classes down so others have competative chance, but to revert a nerf due to "brings to much to the table" is a sign it does need more than 1 nerf.

 

RiP Mesmer

Rip Revenant

Rip anyone not FB/Mech

[Mell.4873]

 

5 hours ago, LKEY.9567 said:

Really amazing input in Reddit post by the user "Opposedsum", really great summary.

ANet dev, please, please, please, take a look at this post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/wqsjd3/about_the_mirage_nerfs_and_anets_balace_framework/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Nice find. Mirage Axe will be gutted after this especially for end-game content.
Honestly I was still one a few player who brought it to Fractals because I was so good at it. I'm glad I have taken up another main until they sort out what they want to do with Mirage.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Mell.4873

[mungozen.2379]

1 hour ago, Mike.7983 said:

Really funny how they revert the fb wvw change nerf before next week as it would negativly impact the game, but sure go ahead and live fire 2 mirage pve nerfs cause reasons.  Not like they already stole 1 dodge from us.  

 

Hi everyone, here's a quick update:

 

Last week’s preview included a significant change to the firebrand skill Manta of Liberation in World vs World – a decrease in ammunition count and an increase to recharge time. Since then, we’ve seen a lot of concern that the reduced access to AoE stability and group stun breaks will negatively impact WvW gameplay due to the sheer amount of crowd control in large-scale fights.

 

We agree with the feedback and have reverted these changes in WvW for this release. We do believe that firebrand brings too much to the table in WvW and plan to tone it down in a future update, but we recognize that this will need to come with changes that improve access to AoE stability and group stun breaks for other professions. We want to spread these tools around to other professions to improve team composition and support role diversity, without reducing the overall availability of these tools.

 

Thanks,

Cal “cmc” Cohen
Game Designer – Skills and Balance

 

Honestly seeing this excuse is sickening to my stomach, the whole point of a nerf is to lower the dominating classes down so others have competative chance, but to revert a nerf due to "brings to much to the table" is a sign it does need more than 1 nerf.

 

RiP Mesmer

Rip Revenant

Rip anyone not FB/Mech

It’s like they didn’t know that by homogenizing the roles they would have to actually share every part of the Quick/Alac/Heal roles to every profession.  Here comes standard 24/7 boon sharing across the board. 
 

Good News:, Mesmer will end up being as useful as a Guardian or Engineer

Bad News: It may still take years

Ugly News: It will cost all professions and especs parts of their core identity 

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

You can throw my hat in with the headscratchers union on this one.  I do not understand these changes to the profession, and their arguments do not hold water.  At this point I'm waiting for some glowstick to come by and say "but complexity is its own reward!"

[Yoci.2481]

9 hours ago, Mike.7983 said:

Really funny how they revert the fb wvw change nerf before next week as it would negativly impact the game, but sure go ahead and live fire 2 mirage pve nerfs cause reasons.  Not like they already stole 1 dodge from us.  

 

Hi everyone, here's a quick update:

 

Last week’s preview included a significant change to the firebrand skill Manta of Liberation in World vs World – a decrease in ammunition count and an increase to recharge time. Since then, we’ve seen a lot of concern that the reduced access to AoE stability and group stun breaks will negatively impact WvW gameplay due to the sheer amount of crowd control in large-scale fights.

 

We agree with the feedback and have reverted these changes in WvW for this release. We do believe that firebrand brings too much to the table in WvW and plan to tone it down in a future update, but we recognize that this will need to come with changes that improve access to AoE stability and group stun breaks for other professions. We want to spread these tools around to other professions to improve team composition and support role diversity, without reducing the overall availability of these tools.

 

Thanks,

Cal “cmc” Cohen
Game Designer – Skills and Balance

 

Honestly seeing this excuse is sickening to my stomach, the whole point of a nerf is to lower the dominating classes down so others have competative chance, but to revert a nerf due to "brings to much to the table" is a sign it does need more than 1 nerf.

 

RiP Mesmer

Rip Revenant

Rip anyone not FB/Mech

I'm at a loss for words. It's like they are trying to kill the game mode. The way in which large boon balls walk around impervious to all attacks unless someone brings even higher numbers is insane. And they are loving it?