Would have been better if eveyone died in the end?

[Fipmip.7219]

Pretty wishful thinking on my part, but I was kinda hoping the final battle would just see everyone die in one way or another. The game's cast is a kaleidoscope of characters, to the point that a lot the main guys barely get any screentime anymore. You might think "oh and then everyone died the end" is a bad ending, but imo since the game intends to continue, I think it would be a good way of setting up a fresh start in the story.

 

I think just ending all or most of the cast would solve the whole problem with an army of characters having to be juggled around, and be mostly just strangely absent from current events despite talking up such grand plans to begin with. It really feels like most of the characters are relegated to being simple cameos, just present to give a line or two in some settings and then gone again for another 4 years.

 

I also think it would be a rare chance for a little character development for the player character. Being the last one standing, in a phyrric victory at the end of all things, a melancholy ending to the story would have had much more impact than the disney tier gay wedding ending. Then, years later, you can introduce a new party of heroes in a return to form, with a focused group of heroes. With one key difference - the commander is now a grizzled veteran of an adventurer, still stinging from their loss years ago, with a little convincing, they might just be ready for another adventure...

Edited August 14, 2022 by Fipmip.7219

[Fueki.4753]

There's no need or reason to kill of major characters.

Just think for a few more seconds and you'll find other ways to retire them.

As long as they are alive, they can come back, if they need to.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Fipmip.7219]

25 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

There's no need or reason to kill of major characters.

Just think for a few more seconds and you'll find other ways to retire them.

As long as they are alive, they can come back, if they need to.

maybe if they stayed retired, yes. but anet keeps bringing them back because they're canonically still active. So they have to check the boxes for like 10 - 15 characters. The story itself takes place over like what... 10 years? and characters have been in their current positions for what, 6 or 7 at the most?  maybe retiring in your 40s is common in tyria, who knows...

 

I think the argument saying there's no reason to kill characters is pretty dumb. There's a lot of reasons to kill them, some of which i outlined. its more like they're making excuses to keep them alive. supposedly, they have come out mostly unscathed against a world ending threat? I think the void incident would be the perfect setting to end not only the dragons, but the rest of the mess too, and give the opportunity for a fresh start.

[Kalavier.1097]

Why kill a character off?

Why does the commander need a sad ending to EoD?

 

Guess what, retire doesn't mean LITERALLY RETIRE. Rytlock, Braham, Logan, all got this treatment in EoD. They were barely involved, if at all, because their lives and jobs had them be elsewhere.

 

3 hours ago, Fipmip.7219 said:

I think the argument saying there's no reason to kill characters is pretty dumb. There's a lot of reasons to kill them, some of which i outlined. its more like they're making excuses to keep them alive. supposedly, they have come out mostly unscathed against a world ending threat? I think the void incident would be the perfect setting to end not only the dragons, but the rest of the mess too, and give the opportunity for a fresh start.

If, and only IF anet was planning to do a Catacylsm level "Redo the entire world to update it" would this make sense, with huge chunks of the character cast dying off.

But the thing is, they aren't. And yes, most of the people came out mostly unscathed because they are skilled adventurers and had support around them. It's not like Braham faced down a horde of void in the middle of nowhere alone.

[Infinity.2876]

I was thinking that instead of killing off them maybe they just don't trust you because you have god-like powers now.

[Fipmip.7219]

3 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Why kill a character off?

Why does the commander need a sad ending to EoD?

 

Guess what, retire doesn't mean LITERALLY RETIRE. Rytlock, Braham, Logan, all got this treatment in EoD. They were barely involved, if at all, because their lives and jobs had them be elsewhere.

 

If, and only IF anet was planning to do a Catacylsm level "Redo the entire world to update it" would this make sense, with huge chunks of the character cast dying off.

But the thing is, they aren't. And yes, most of the people came out mostly unscathed because they are skilled adventurers and had support around them. It's not like Braham faced down a horde of void in the middle of nowhere alone.

Why have a sad ending? why kill characters? why not? it's down to personal preference. I, personally, do not like why the story is messy and the characters come and go and seemingly have better things to do than save the world. Why was Logan, the leader of the pact, the force designed around dealing with dragons, so uninvolved until the very end? Why keep are half the members of dragons watch, the guild focussed around dealing with dragons, not involved until the very end? From what I've heard, it involved voice acting scheduling problems or something. That's fine, but it brings me back to my point about having this kaleidoscope of  characters that are set up to be the main focus of the conflict, but instead become this unsatisfying mess.  like i said, it would be fine if they literally retired in a satisfying way like master oogway does, but they don't, and anet keeps treating them like marks on the board to say they were involved at all.

 

The thing is, is that characters are just ideas. I dont know why people need some sort of huge reason for killing a character. They are story elements, and they should be kept as disposable. We, as humans, have limitless capacity for the process of building up new characters, and then moving on to the next one. as long as they're good characters. But anet refuses to move on, because like i said they keep coming back in an unsatisfying way. So why should I move on? I want them to actually be involved, or just end. 

 

Why was trahearne killed? why was tybalt killed? Its a great way of propping up a story. Yes, I say propping up because really how else could you salvage it at this point? Maybe if GW2's characters were good, complex ones, I wouldn't be asking for it. I certainly didn't want tyrion lannister to die. But i still accepted it could happen, because it keeps the story grounded and you get invested for the remaining characters. In my original post, I said EoD would have been a great opportunity to wipe the slate clean and start some new characters. I'm ready for a new group of maybe just 2 or 3 dudes that stick around. Like chief and cortana. or jak and daxter. or ratchet and clank.

[Sunchaser.9854]

I think just one of the basic storytelling elements is, A good story could use both emotional highs and lows. But one of the worst feelings you can get from a story isn't a even a interaction, but confusion or apathy.

 

Many of the living seasons are designed to take you out of the current lore to go back in time, but many of the lowest reward content is also paradoxially at the start with the more rewarding content (mounts, 30-35g a week arborstone, +25% xp, flying mounts /skyscale/beetle, ascended trinkets / items, wider playerbase), etc.

But the story is so segmented and designed to make you wait for a sale or waste money that by the time you arrive at the content you can feel kinda apathetic.

Spoiler

 

Characters never die, but if they do, are brought back or self resurrect (bar Braham's Mom minus the one time she comes back as a ghost and won't even talk to him. ) 

There are some characters who seem to die, or be vague(?), like Soo Won, but as mentioned the notorious npc marriage happens then. Not that i have anything against marriage, just in terms of story. It seems tone deaf to time skip a funeral to have a literal npc wedding. I'm actually all for representation just it comes at such a tone deaf moment in the story.

Where there could have been loss, remorse, a weeping Joon cradling a limp and wavering Soo Won's head in her arms, quivering and whispering. "At least.. you were able to save me from hurting you.... That's all that ever mattered to me Joon.. Keeping the world safe.. Not only you.. But the world.. From me and the tragic corruption that befalls on our kind." 

Instead of being treated as deep, emotional moments, It kinda seems like a lot of moments are just kinda used as excuse plots to have artificial conflict. Like, we have this tech city, but Shiro, the plague of Cantha, mass murdering cantha is dead? What do we do to have a plot? Add in a dragon with sprinkles of Magically becomes evil and use magic to save the day, Yay! 

 

 

I think the more weighty moments of story are when it can get you to emotionally invest in a character. Either for being A: Likeable, Like a Mumen rider who's a everyman who tries his best, but is outmatched by the odds and still makes you root for him. Or B: A emotional punch, a tragic loss of a character you loved or making you feel the character's loss and pain with good writing.

 

A bit of a repost, but Ace's death can be one of those for me as you can see the character's entire family weeping for him. Garp is torn in pain, letting himself be punched and dragged into the ground as the weeping caretaker who raised his family screams in pain, pelting him as they both just cry and take it. Everyone is sobbing, feeling remorseful and the emotional pangs hit through the floor. When a character dies and the characters are written like they don't care and are reading lines off a piece of paper, it can often fall flat. But when it's written well, it can be a very sad and emotional moment for the characters and narrative of a story. When it's done wrong, you just might have no emotion. And for many gw2 moments. it seems like they skip on capitalizing or weighing the impact for longer than even minutes after the personal story ends. 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

No.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Ow the edge

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

There has been a severe lack of meaningful major character deaths since Heart of Thorns ended. The only ones that really pop up are Blish and Almorra - Mai Trin if we include mid-redemption villains. Aurene died, but got revived; Commander died, but got revived. Sure there's Demmi and Soo-Won, but they were (re)introduced and killed instantly so there was no real chance to become truly attached. I guess you have Smodur, but he was done dirty and practically made a villain before his death. IBS and EoD needed more deaths of major / long-term characters that players would care about.

 

That said, I think "killing everyone" is a bit overboard, and similarly you don't need to kill characters to write them out. Dragon's Watch is very clearly going into retirement mode with End of Dragons' epilogue. Braham, Kasmeer, Rytlock, Logan, Canach, and Rox are all in the very clear "we're leaving main cast but may pop up from rare time to time" (Rox already did with the unceremonious disappearance after War Eternal, technically). Possibly Taimi, Gorrik, Marjory, and Caithe too, depending on what happens to the FDA.

[Scavarius.6059]

17 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

There's no need or reason to kill of major characters.

Just think for a few more seconds and you'll find other ways to retire them.

As long as they are alive, they can come back, if they need to.

getting zojja'd it is then.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

This is an aside, but are links to YouTube videos in comments no longer showing up properly for anyone else on the forum?

Edited August 15, 2022 by The Greyhawk.9107

[Tsakhi.8124]

For some reason, this brought back Persona 3 flashbacks.

The reason for this is because:

Spoiler

The main character dies in Aigis' arms. The end. He doesn't come back; he became the seal that blocked the human desire to be freed by antipathic bliss that was promised by Nyx.

This made me wonder what would happen if the same thing happened to the Commander: That little by little they would fade, their lives slipping away, and depending on how they treated others, they'd either be remembered fondly...or not at all.

[Gibson.4036]

Character death should meaningfully emerge from the story.

"Housecleaning" is a terrible reason for it. As is "this would give the story more gravity". If your story is lacking weight, so will character deaths.

Demolitionist Tonn's death is one of the most meaningful in the game, not because of him, but because it is a powerful part of Pact Medic Ceera's character arc.

Meanwhile, Mai Trin's was autopilot storytelling. It gave her an out from dealing with the fact that she desires to be redeemed but her past is too much for most to forgive. If a character's death makes it easier for them and everyone else, it's going to have no weight.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

8 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Character death should meaningfully emerge from the story.

"Housecleaning" is a terrible reason for it. As is "this would give the story more gravity". If your story is lacking weight, so will character deaths.

Demolitionist Tonn's death is one of the most meaningful in the game, not because of him, but because it is a powerful part of Pact Medic Ceera's character arc.

Meanwhile, Mai Trin's was autopilot storytelling. It gave her an out from dealing with the fact that she desires to be redeemed but her past is too much for most to forgive. If a character's death makes it easier for them and everyone else, it's going to have no weight.

While I agree with the first two sentences, I really disagree with Tonn's and Mai Trin's.

Though Mai Trin was very clearly a Redemption Equals Death trope, it didn't really feel like autopilot storytelling as it did have weight, imo, and added to Ankka's actions and cruelty. Tonn's death, however, was a predictably Buddy Cop Show trope where you have a naive newcomer (the PC) and a grizzled old cop (Tonn) they get paired with, and always the old timer gets offed in the story for the main character, the newbie, to avenge him.

The very second that Tonn was introduced, I knew he would die in some avoidable self-sacrificing moment and the entire arc was ruined for me. Mai Trin, despite being a trope death still, was not an instant predictable outcome until she locked herself away in that reactor room (how Ankka got into a locked room is all the more bizarre, I guess she just stood there waiting in the shadows - but then again, Aurene somehow lept through a wall to gag death Joko) - and her death had meaning to the overall plot, being the leading cause of the remaining story in New Kaineng and Shing Jea.

A better death example would probably be Eir, who's death affected the story both in the immediate and long term.

[Fipmip.7219]

17 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

That said, I think "killing everyone" is a bit overboard, and similarly you don't need to kill characters to write them out. Dragon's Watch is very clearly going into retirement mode with End of Dragons' epilogue. Braham, Kasmeer, Rytlock, Logan, Canach, and Rox are all in the very clear "we're leaving main cast but may pop up from rare time to time" (Rox already did with the unceremonious disappearance after War Eternal, technically). Possibly Taimi, Gorrik, Marjory, and Caithe too, depending on what happens to the FDA.

Are they though? My reaction to it is that it's left vague. It's sort of "maybe we'll disband, maybe not" Which is is exactly the sort of thing that makes it unsatisfying when they dont show up in the next season/expac. Because if they haven't disbanded, then where are they when the commander is going on a life threatening adventure? arent they supposed to be a team? They really need to learn to commit to wrapping things up.

 

8 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Character death should meaningfully emerge from the story.

"Housecleaning" is a terrible reason for it. As is "this would give the story more gravity". If your story is lacking weight, so will character deaths.

Demolitionist Tonn's death is one of the most meaningful in the game, not because of him, but because it is a powerful part of Pact Medic Ceera's character arc.

Meanwhile, Mai Trin's was autopilot storytelling. It gave her an out from dealing with the fact that she desires to be redeemed but her past is too much for most to forgive. If a character's death makes it easier for them and everyone else, it's going to have no weight.

 

You're missing the point here. My point is that the story and character relationships are a mess. The only course forward here is a long difficult one that turns every character into a good one and give them a satisfying ending. Do you think anet can do that? The topic of this thread is to ask the question: would it have been better to just kill everyone and start over? I think it would have been a good opportunity for it. These characters man, they just aren't that good. I agree that housecleaning isnt a good ending. not in a good story, anyway. but this is a bad story that could use a reboot. And that's hard to do with all this baggage.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 minutes ago, Fipmip.7219 said:

Are they though? My reaction to it is that it's left vague. It's sort of "maybe we'll disband, maybe not" Which is is exactly the sort of thing that makes it unsatisfying when they dont show up in the next season/expac. Because if they haven't disbanded, then where are they when the commander is going on a life threatening adventure? arent they supposed to be a team? They really need to learn to commit to wrapping things up.

It's left ambiguous for the guild itself and the Pact, but Logan outright says he's retiring, Rox is sticking with the Olmakhan, Marjory and Gorrik are full out making a (friends) detective agency, Taimi is sticking with Joon, and Kasmeer is full out becoming a political ambassador. Rytlock is stuck reshaping the Legions and Canach going his own way for new (economical) ventures.

That just leaves Braham (and maybe Caithe and Zojja) as the only one really left able to adventure regularly, but even that's really a "call and I'll be there" thing for him given the PTSD. Rytlock and Canach technically said the same, so those three won't show up unless the Commander asks them to show up (or the plot begins to deal with their new life).

 

Dragon's Watch may still exist, though it may also disband or rebrand, but the existing members of it are pretty much all going their own way and there's zero ambiguity about that. And since they made a new guild when 2/6 of the members of Destiny's Edge were out, now that 5/9 (or 9/12) of Dragon's Watch are out and so is its namesake purpose, it'll be weird and hypocritical to keep DW going.

 

So to me, it wasn't left ambiguous at all. Every single member is pretty solidly doing their own thing, but saying "if you call, I'll show up". Chances of Commander calling? Well, they never really did before.

[Fipmip.7219]

2 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It's left ambiguous for the guild itself and the Pact, but Logan outright says he's retiring, Rox is sticking with the Olmakhan, Marjory and Gorrik are full out making a (friends) detective agency, Taimi is sticking with Joon, and Kasmeer is full out becoming a political ambassador. Rytlock is stuck reshaping the Legions and Canach going his own way for new (economical) ventures.

That just leaves Braham (and maybe Caithe and Zojja) as the only one really left able to adventure regularly, but even that's really a "call and I'll be there" thing for him given the PTSD. Rytlock and Canach technically said the same, so those three won't show up unless the Commander asks them to show up (or the plot begins to deal with their new life).

 

Dragon's Watch may still exist, though it may also disband or rebrand, but the existing members of it are pretty much all going their own way and there's zero ambiguity about that. And since they made a new guild when 2/6 of the members of Destiny's Edge were out, now that 5/9 (or 9/12) of Dragon's Watch are out and so is its namesake purpose, it'll be weird and hypocritical to keep DW going.

 

So to me, it wasn't left ambiguous at all. Every single member is pretty solidly doing their own thing, but saying "if you call, I'll show up". Chances of Commander calling? Well, they never really did before.

That's just what their day jobs are. Logan was always the captain of the seraph. rytlock was always a legion man. Yet they came together and fought as a team. There's no precedent in the story to suggest that these are the endings. And many of these characters have had these upstanding positions for a while now. It has always been ambiguous as to what their actual duties are while going around adventuring.  And anet uses this to keep bringing them back, often as a kind of cursory appearance, like ticking them off on a clipboard, like "here we are, we're still part of the team!" And they're maintaining that status quo so they can do it again. It's just such a nagging feeling that pisses me off through every story chapter that these people are supposed to be around, but never are, like they don't have the budget to get all of the avengers in one setting.

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

While I agree with the first two sentences, I really disagree with Tonn's and Mai Trin's.

Though Mai Trin was very clearly a Redemption Equals Death trope, it didn't really feel like autopilot storytelling as it did have weight, imo, and added to Ankka's actions and cruelty. Tonn's death, however, was a predictably Buddy Cop Show trope where you have a naive newcomer (the PC) and a grizzled old cop (Tonn) they get paired with, and always the old timer gets offed in the story for the main character, the newbie, to avenge him.

The very second that Tonn was introduced, I knew he would die in some avoidable self-sacrificing moment and the entire arc was ruined for me. Mai Trin, despite being a trope death still, was not an instant predictable outcome until she locked herself away in that reactor room (how Ankka got into a locked room is all the more bizarre, I guess she just stood there waiting in the shadows - but then again, Aurene somehow lept through a wall to gag death Joko) - and her death had meaning to the overall plot, being the leading cause of the remaining story in New Kaineng and Shing Jea.

A better death example would probably be Eir, who's death affected the story both in the immediate and long term.

Tonn himself, I see what you’re saying. But Ceera’s anger after we save her, and then her reappearance in HoT made it more than that for me.

I definitely can’t agree with Mai Trin. They threw her away cheaply.

Eir’s death was mixed for me because of the painfully long pause before it happened, which telegraphed it. It’s possible it would have worked better for me if I played Norn characters or did the core dungeons.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, Fipmip.7219 said:

That's just what their day jobs are. Logan was always the captain of the seraph. rytlock was always a legion man. Yet they came together and fought as a team. There's no precedent in the story to suggest that these are the endings. And many of these characters have had these upstanding positions for a while now.

And before, their day job was "adventurer". When Destiny's Edge formed, Logan and Rytlock were not military officials (well, Rytlock kinda was, but going AWOL is kind of his thing).

And they didn't really have those positions 'for a while', at least they didn't while they were frequently in the party. Marjory was a detective, sure, but she had put that on hold for Season 2 onward; Kasmeer got put into a political position, and that's when she was barely seen. Same with Canach and his casino stuff, or Rox and the Olmakhan.

 

They've been slowly writing these characters out of the main cast for the past few years as they slowly complete their character arcs. And with End of Dragons, all of those character arcs are complete.

2 hours ago, Fipmip.7219 said:

It has always been ambiguous as to what their actual duties are while going around adventuring.

Exactly, it's been ambiguous but as of EoD's ending it's no longer so.

They began writing the main cast out of the spotlight with Season 4. Canach and Rox were the first 'victims' of this in Season 4. Followed by Braham and Rytlock in Icebrood Saga, and now the rest with End of Dragons.

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Tonn himself, I see what you’re saying. But Ceera’s anger after we save her, and then her reappearance in HoT made it more than that for me.

Ceera's return in HoT was a nice addendum but that was all it was to me, personally. Just a nice easter egg 3 years later.

[Fipmip.7219]

54 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

And before, their day job was "adventurer". When Destiny's Edge formed, Logan and Rytlock were not military officials (well, Rytlock kinda was, but going AWOL is kind of his thing).

And they didn't really have those positions 'for a while', at least they didn't while they were frequently in the party. Marjory was a detective, sure, but she had put that on hold for Season 2 onward; Kasmeer got put into a political position, and that's when she was barely seen. Same with Canach and his casino stuff, or Rox and the Olmakhan.

 

They've been slowly writing these characters out of the main cast for the past few years as they slowly complete their character arcs. And with End of Dragons, all of those character arcs are complete.

 

It doesnt matter whether you think they are complete. lets look at canach, for example. we could have said, he was done after path of fire. yet they brought him back. Literally what is stopping this happening with every other character? Being supposedly indisposed has not stopped anet from feeling the need to keep them in the narrative. It's the extremely half hearted manner in which they do this that sucks. why do these characters go from prominent party members to being these sort of distant, flaky people as time goes on? It makes the cadence of the story feels extremely stilted, kind of as though you're watching an episodic show and one by one each main cast character just stops showing up for some reason.

 

The reason this is happening is because there's just such a massive number of these characters that all need to be written, programmed and VA'd to maintain their prominence. anet is trying to keep them relevant, but has to cut corners to do so. So why not solve the problem by properly wrapping things up so you dont need so many? I'm not just talking about what's likely to happen in the future. I'm also talking about what's been happening throughout the story so far. Most of the cast are still fully eligible to keep going. Rytlock is basically begging the commander to get him away from cre. logan might get bored of the southsun life and be back for oh boy another surprise ending arrival. The detective friends are basically private eyes for hire. Taimi and braham are still the same. And with all these threads left open, anet is fully primed to keep using these characters. and they will.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

2 hours ago, Fipmip.7219 said:

Most of the cast are still fully eligible to keep going. Rytlock is basically begging the commander to get him away from cre. logan might get bored of the southsun life and be back for oh boy another surprise ending arrival. The detective friends are basically private eyes for hire. Taimi and braham are still the same. And with all these threads left open, anet is fully primed to keep using these characters. and they will.

And I am ok with that, I am at least the one person not on the "Replace the entire cast" bandwagon.  Doing so wouldn't endear me to whatever comes next.

[Labjax.2465]

I mean, that'd be a really risky move. There are undoubtedly players who are fans of one character or another and getting rid of most of them just so they can be replaced with new is gonna put those people off. There is also established voice actors to consider. People who they know they can count on to give a performance that is generally liked, who they might have to push aside to get someone else, just so they can do new because the voice actor sounds too similar to the new character otherwise.

And there is tone. That's a pretty dark ending and for it to not feel cheap and pointless, you now have to put writing time into acknowledging the impact within the world of those characters missing and who they've left behind. I mean, you could bypass that by jumping way into the future I guess, but then we're talking about a whole new game, pretty much.

If they feel there are too many characters to juggle, they can just make up in-world excuses for why one character or another isn't part of the main quest. Much easier than writing an entire death and grief storyline for numerous characters.

In general, to make writing at all realistic, it's important for actions to have consequences and consequences to lead to actions and so on. Else it feels like you're jumping from plot point to plot point with little justification. To kill off a ton of main characters is creating a lot of consequences all at once to deal with, particularly in a fictional world of this size.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

5 hours ago, Fipmip.7219 said:

It doesnt matter whether you think they are complete. lets look at canach, for example. we could have said, he was done after path of fire. yet they brought him back. Literally what is stopping this happening with every other character?

Canach did not have a complete character arc by the end of Path of Fire. One could argue he was done after Season 3, and nobody really expected his return, but they created a second character arc which ended with him creating a casino. He was MIA for practically all of IBS because of this, and was a mere cameo in End of Dragons. And he ends End of Dragon with:

Canach: I've already delegated its day-to-day operations, and it's time for me to move on to my next venture.

<Character name>: Which is?

Canach: Ah-ah. Not ready for the big reveal yet. But when the time is right, you'll be the first to know.

Which is basically the writers stating "he'll only come back once we want to bring him back".

And Canach is a terrible example because as I've stated twice now, Canach is one of the characters which they create an "but may return" addendum.

Meanwhile you got Kasmeer, Taimi, Rox, and Logan. Logan ends End of Dragons with:

Logan Thackeray: By the way, I'm headed to Southsun as soon as the party's over.

Logan Thackeray: I'm looking forward to doing nothing more strenuous than locating the best local gimlet...

Logan Thackeray: Brimstone's invited to come along, but he hasn't answered my invitation.

Very literally saying "I'm retiring". He even said as much in Arborstone just before:

Logan: Well, like Dragon's Watch, the primary mission of the Pact is...ostensibly complete.

Logan: There'll be a meeting soon. We'll get all the leadership in one room and decide what's next.

Logan: While some people are eager to dissolve, others are not so sure the job is done.

Logan: Considering there is one Elder Dragon left.

Logan: Personally, I think it's also worth discussing how much the orders have been able to accomplish working together.

Logan: But if I say that out loud, pretty sure someone's going to accuse me of trying to hold on to power...

So he's basically saying he'll no doubt not be Pact Marshal unless there's high demand for him to be.

And let's look at Taimi, who says:

Taimi: But I didn't realize how much the little things were adding up. I've got more energy, I'm thinking more clearly...

Taimi: So, I'm not gonna rest until we find a way to keep the dragonjade charged.

Gorrik: Maybe a little bit of rest.

Taimi: Yes, yes... I don't actually mean NO rest. My midafternoon nap is nonnegotiable.

Taimi: But jade tech is my first, second, and third priority until we have a solution.

 

[In Dead End]

Taimi: Oh, it's so good to have an excuse to get everyone together! I've barely left Joon's lab since I saw you last.

<Character name>: How's that going? Have a long-term solution for Cantha's power needs?

Taimi: Not yet, but our experiments are going well. We've found ways to extend the life of current batteries.

Taimi: And Aurene was able to top everything off. We're getting close. I know we'll have something soon.

Taimi: But enough work talk! Let's enjoy the party. What do you think it's about? I've got a guess!

In other words, unless the future plot deals directly with jadetech continued existence, Taimi is not going to be returning until that plothook gets fixed off-screen.

And Rox? Well that's a no brainer.

Kasmeer meanwhile:

Lady Kasmeer Meade: Thank you. That title certainly feels...earned now.

Marjory Delaqua: The person it's attached to is what makes it impressive.

Lady Kasmeer Meade: Well, dealing with high-ranking people was intimidating. I'd worry, "Am I worth of their time?"

Lady Kasmeer Meade: But as I got the hang of things, I started realizing that not all of them were worthy of mine.

Lady Kasmeer Meade: Made all the difference. It's worth figuring out who should take up space in your life.

She might have held the position of Ambassador since Path of Fire, which is why she was off-screen when the main plot isn't politics, but she outright states that she's finally gotten accustomed to the job. From Season 1 to Season 3, Kasmeer wasn't an Ambassador. Which is why the earlier claim of "oh that's what they do when they're not adventuring" is silly. They began as adventurers with us, and now they're finding new jobs which they've slowly grown into - all of Destiny's Edge and Dragon's Watch.

Your repeated example of Canach is the most likely individual to return, which I've said will happen.

5 hours ago, Fipmip.7219 said:

Being supposedly indisposed has not stopped anet from feeling the need to keep them in the narrative. It's the extremely half hearted manner in which they do this that sucks. why do these characters go from prominent party members to being these sort of distant, flaky people as time goes on?

They become distant because they're finding a position in society. If you are aware of their origin stories, why they joined the Commander in fighting Scarlet in Season 1, then you'd be well aware that the only one of them who had a stable lifestyle was Marjory.

Logan? Pushed to go fight the Elder Dragons by Jennah. Now his task is finished and he's retiring to Southsun, injured.

Rytlock? Hates officework and was able to escape into adventuring. Now the Legions are in so much disarray and his Imperator doesn't hate his guts, so he can't escape.

Kasmeer? Her family was thrown out of nobility and she was trying to make ends meet. Now she's regained her title and has an official court position.

Taimi? Began as a student running away from schoolwork, and is now a respected scientist in her fields, with an ever growing disease that hinders her adventuring capabilities.

Marjory? Put her life on hold to help Kasmeer and the Commander and come to terms with Belinda's death, now she no longer has to and has come to terms.

Caithe? Began as a wayward fighting the Elder Dragons, and now spends her life serving Aurene as leader of the Crystal Bloom.

Canach? Rogue who harmed people as he fought for his twisted view of justice, now he's doing good by economical means rather than violent ones after making winnings through the Commander.

Braham? Began as someone trying to get away from his disappointing (and now retconned) love life, and now suffers from PTSD that keeps him from fighting.

Zojja? Coma.

 

They're distant because they are no longer adventurers. They all have new duties that they didn't at the beginning half of the story.

The fact you don't realize this and think that "Taimi and Braham are practically the same" shows that you're not paying attention. It has nothing to do with the number of characters - it has to do with the fact that the characters have grown - the new characters got added because the story needed new adventurers because the old ones have grown into non-adventuring jobs.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I like Canach and Sayida so I hope we see more of those two at least.