Not feeling this WvW Beta....

[Donta.1306]

A long time ago many many years ago Arenanet had WvW right, it was the best part of the game. Everyone knows WvW has been meh, yet this is honestly a lot worse experience for many with this beta. We have guild members that are on the same server who got placed on different servers for this, we no longer run into familiar names and commanders. If your guild randomly gets put on some random server for the week it's quite painful, we are facing off against one of our other server guilds. We got the short end of the stick...

One of the big advantages of having everyone always together on a server allowed us self-police as a server community. The bad/toxic commanders could be dealt with, you know the type they are horrible but its everyone else's fault and they throw a tantrum on everyone and blame their lack of leadership on everyone else and treats everyone like dirt. This let us as a community excommunicate those bad commanders to players and they would get with the program or just fade away/change servers. If we wanted a fortnight/halo/cod online experience with people that act like rotten disrespectful children, we would play those games. Thanks for forcing that on us. 
his has been anything but enjoyable for many guilds we are also faced with less players on for WvW while we play you can be amazing yet if you do not have all your server mates on this new we are going to place you someplace else. It does not matter how good you are, if you only have 15-20 people maybe 25, and you face a horde zerg every morning/day/evening kind of throws things out of balance over what we once had as we are consumed by the wave. We didn't have that problem before.

Not seeing this as a good thing from a WvW and WvW community standpoint.  Want to make WvW awesome again? Set it back to where it was during the panicle of GW2 that made it so popular. Because this is defiantly not it. 

So yeah this beta not so great for many of us, with even our guildmates placed on another server that came from ours. Not being with our server mates in other guilds. Make WvW like it used to be when it was popular before you guys messed it up and chased a lot of players out of the game to due to it. Want to do something productive? Stop the servers who abuse the queue system to block people out so they can just steam roll the map and the wvw cycle of the week. This is not a resurrection this is more like let's kill this game mode even more...

Edited August 15, 2022 by Donta.1306

[Mell.4873]

I agree. When I play on my low population server and I was able run around as longbow ranger. I even lead a few small groups to siege keeps having fun with a small community.

The new WvW community is very toxic and I get blamed for deaths in my group or kicked for not keeping up with the Zerg ball. Reminds me of when I used to play on some of the more populated WvW servers and having trouble keeping up with the Super Speed Squad (A year ago).

Edited August 16, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Dawdler.8521]

13 hours ago, Donta.1306 said:

One of the big advantages of having everyone always together on a server allowed us self-police as a server community. 

No it does not. Players do not have the integrity to do that at such large scale. There is a reason why server stacking and bandwagoning is a thing.

As you say at the end...

"Want to do something productive? Stop the servers who abuse the queue system to block people out so they can just steam roll the map and the wvw cycle of the week."

Who are you talking to? Anet? But the server is self-policing its community, they can fix it themselves, right?

Right???

Edited August 16, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Gehenna.3625]

7 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

The new WvW community is very toxic and I get blamed for deaths in my group or kicked for not keeping up with the Zerg ball. Reminds me of when I used to play on some of the more populated WvW servers and having trouble keeping up with the Super Speed Squad (A year ago).

I experienced the same thing with regards to chat. The chat was a whole lot more toxic than I'm used to and it just kept going. I can take it, but it does make you wonder about the type of people you're playing with and if it goes on for a long time it's also very irritating. 

I didn't experience groups being like that but then my experience was that there were hardly any groups at all. And if there were mostly they weren't public groups.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Gehenna.3625

[One more for the road.8950]

15 hours ago, Donta.1306 said:

One of the big advantages of having everyone always together on a server allowed us self-police as a server community.

Just no.

I have seen, and been part of, servers "policing" and what it does. Sometimes it can be necessary for a server community split from an old way of doing things, move to other Discord servers, etc, due to old inbred "policing" of what goes on in a server. And then, most of the time, it just ends up as a new way of "policing" a server. If not right away, then after a while.

The thing is, that for some reason, in this game mode.... sometimes people that knows how to fight and optimize squads, players and builds doesn't get why anyone would not do that. And people enjoying open squad play with a little bit of this and a little bit of that enjoying the game and fun but not necessarily being the most skilled at it doesn't get why the other ones can't do the same as them. People who wants to find spots to PvP or small scale doesn't get why people can't leave them alone. People who wants to improve doesn't get why not everybody wants to. People who defends objectives doesn't understand why other people aren't. People who wants to fight doesn't understand why anyone would defend an object when there is fights to be had for only a couple of hours each evening. And the people that wants to just be social and have fun in a game mode without being serious at all doesn't get why people would quarrel about anything. And so on and so on.

The thing is that it is usually one of these "factions" that ends up "policing". So everyone in majority (but lets be real, for the most part a strong or vocal minority) wanting the same out of the game on the server is good, and everyone that doesn't, might not be. And anything going against the "faction policing the server" might be labeled toxic or ridiculed. When it is in fact just different opinions and ways to enjoy the game and they all are a part of WvW as it is today. I am all for non toxic chat in game, but sometimes "everyone agrees" just because the ones who do not have given up communication and is either waiting for things to shift again, have transferred, plays on another account or takes a break from the game.

With the new system, I can be with the people I want to be with in a guild, that has an alliance with other people I would like to play with from other guilds. And every time the world/team reshuffles, we'll meet new faces playing with us, as we do with relinks today, but I don't have to play with the people that I don't want to play with but happens to be on the same server as me so they have been there with me for years. If the alliance ends up splitting due to people getting inactive or disagreements or in general stale, we can make new alliances with other guilds for the next one. Much more preferable that managing several accounts, having entire guilds pay gems to move servers or have individual players paying gems to transfer into what they hope is the right fit for them.

[Mabi black.1824]

1 hour ago, One more for the road.8950 said:

The thing is, that for some reason, in this game mode.... sometimes people that knows how to fight and optimize squads, players and builds doesn't get why anyone would not do that. And people enjoying open squad play with a little bit of this and a little bit of that enjoying the game and fun but not necessarily being the most skilled at it doesn't get why the other ones can't do the same as them. People who wants to find spots to PvP or small scale doesn't get why people can't leave them alone. People who wants to improve doesn't get why not everybody wants to. People who defends objectives doesn't understand why other people aren't. People who wants to fight doesn't understand why anyone would defend an object when there is fights to be had for only a couple of hours each evening. And the people that wants to just be social and have fun in a game mode without being serious at all doesn't get why people would quarrel about anything. And so on and so on.

you made a great description of what this game mode can be. they are exactly many things together, you can find them on any server you want to move, always those are. you can see a lot of drama, you can see a lot of players leave or come back you can lose all the time, but you will always know that your server is there. that is the container that built anet , and you will always find it there, if you select it no one enters it, do not ask permission from anyone and I don't account to anyone how you like to play the mode. this is precisely the point, that with alliances players lose their container, their safe home, or whatever it means to them and their community.

[Mabi black.1824]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

No it does not. Players do not have the integrity to do that at such large scale. There is a reason why server stacking and bandwagoning is a thing.

As you say at the end...

"Want to do something productive? Stop the servers who abuse the queue system to block people out so they can just steam roll the map and the wvw cycle of the week."

Who are you talking to? Anet? But the server is self-policing its community, they can fix it themselves, right?

Right???

this is a joke. the community does not control anything, only the administrator does. I didn't even have to think about it myself because someone else suggested it. in europe we have 27 teams, 27 worlds, do you want to make them similar? you can do it even at this time lower the population limit of what you need to make them all the same, then force players to move from stacked servers by lowering the number of players for each individual map. 

make 4 or 5 nice '' beta of redistribution of players '' each one you make it last 2 or 3 weeks, you will see that the players move ( as they already do every 2 months to stack ) or they will spend their free time in the queue.

of course it all depends on what anet wants to do to improve or how it wants to transform this game mode.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[One more for the road.8950]

59 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

this is a joke. the community does not control anything, only the administrator does.

This is wrong.

An administrator only controls a discord or TS that not everyone on the server might even be a member of.

Social control, however, does the rest.

[Zok.4956]

2 hours ago, One more for the road.8950 said:

And every time the world/team reshuffles, we'll meet new faces playing with us, as we do with relinks today, but I don't have to play with the people that I don't want to play with but happens to be on the same server as me so they have been there with me for years.

Instead of the people that you don't want to play with and that are on the same server as you, you will meet new people after the world/team reshuffles on your server/team that you don't want to play with. 😎

 

[One more for the road.8950]

1 minute ago, Zok.4956 said:

Instead of the people that you don't want to play with and that are on the same server as you, you will meet new people after the world/team reshuffles on your server/team that you don't want to play with. 😎

 

At least, if nothing else, new people I don't want to play with every time there's a new match gives me more patience as I know it will probably be over sooner or later. And new people I don't want to play with is refreshing. The same old, same old I don't want play with gets stale. 😛

[Mabi black.1824]

19 minutes ago, One more for the road.8950 said:

This is wrong.

An administrator only controls a discord or TS that not everyone on the server might even be a member of.

Social control, however, does the rest.

sorry I probably expressed myself badly, when I say administrator I mean arenanet.

[Hesione.9412]

16 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I experienced the same thing with regards to chat. The chat was a whole lot more toxic than I'm used to and it just kept going. I can take it, but it does make you wonder about the type of people you're playing with and if it goes on for a long time it's also very irritating. 

I didn't experience groups being like that but then my experience was that there were hardly any groups at all. And if there were mostly they weren't public groups.

If I could just go a day in WvW without kitten talk/jokes in team chat, let alone a week. And then there's people being directly nasty to others in teamchat. I report the latter. The former are just boring and clog up team chat. Which makes some people turn it off, defeating the whole purpose of team chat.

[Scyras.5608]

I very much feel this (the not feeling it, LOL). 

I have been disappointed a number of times each wvw session for the past week.

Here is what I noticed: (eu side)

• I see people explicitly teabagging now. This is a first for me, I can' t recall the last time I saw that on my own server. It's very disheartening. 
• people lashing out at eachother in chat. Not much, mind you. But you can see the frustration flow in lot's of interactions.
• More then normal use of different languages. German, French. All fine by me...   
  But then, people start to make calls in those languages. I can't understand it. Someone links [Cragtop], or [Hills]. I asked for clarification the first few times, now I'm just "whatever man".
  I do not understand why you won't use English, if you want to communicate clearly. Either use it or start learning. It will benefit you greatly (and me).
• Population. I think naming the different wvw groups is counter productive, so I will just call them by color.
  And just fyi, this is subjective, but fair observations. 
  Blue has constantly people. More then us (green), at almost every part of the day. At night (have played twice through the night) to. Not by much, as far I can tell. But when we mount 5 people on EB at 01:00, they have 15. When we try to defend our home in the morning with 8, they come with 12, + roamers. Red has completely opted out of anything resembling a defense. Why would they? I can't think of anything that counts for more, then pure population.
• Commanders. And their quality. This one is tricky, because I would love to see more reliable, good commanders. And to get there, people need to practice. A few of the commanders I met seem to miss that mark (the get-better part). Most of them I see running around solo, with not a soul following him. This person seems to have no plan, no marketing for his open tag, and no coherence about what he wants to achieve that night. So I thought, 'let's wait for a commander which has at least somewhat of a following". And there was, once. 25 man as best I can recall. We tried to take SM. Commander is almost clueless, where to run, where to position, when to retreat. I was around for the sm attempt (about 20 minutes), then silently logged off.
   

These would be my main take-aways from this beta. I was very cautious at the start, seeing where and how it went. How people would behave, our amount of teamwork, chat use etc. It's not been a very great experience.
 

I feel I should put a disclaimer here; I'm aware that, plucking people from their own wvw environment (years and years of layers, knowing people, etc) and plunging them into this beta is kinda a recipe bound for disaster. Especially if it's for one week. People don't need to be nice, or get along. This is the back of my head constantly, and personally I'm a lot more optimistic this will be much better when Alliances will get implemented permanently. 

 

[Mabi black.1824]

1 hour ago, Scyras.5608 said:

I feel I should put a disclaimer here; I'm aware that, plucking people from their own wvw environment (years and years of layers, knowing people, etc) and plunging them into this beta is kinda a recipe bound for disaster. Especially if it's for one week. People don't need to be nice, or get along. This is the back of my head constantly, and personally I'm a lot more optimistic this will be much better when Alliances will get implemented permanently.

these words, this concept are shared by many of us, and are a concern for many of us. just for a week and then you go back to your usual team, let's try to imagine if you can no longer go back. your team is really a great community, many small groups that know each other, schedules and habits, a bit like when you go to your usual coffee bar under the house, you all know if you go there at 18.00 you know who you find and what you can do if you go there at 10.00 you know that I would find other friends, and so on.

in addition to the fact that if you don't have ''your'' team, the motivations go down really close to 0 but this maybe is only about me.

[Sahne.6950]

9 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

these words, this concept are shared by many of us, and are a concern for many of us. just for a week and then you go back to your usual team, let's try to imagine if you can no longer go back. your team is really a great community, many small groups that know each other, schedules and habits, a bit like when you go to your usual coffee bar under the house, you all know if you go there at 18.00 you know who you find and what you can do if you go there at 10.00 you know that I would find other friends, and so on.

in addition to the fact that if you don't have ''your'' team, the motivations go down really close to 0 but this maybe is only about me.

ever thought about that if you really suche a great community... you can simply form the biggest and most successfull alliance there is? this way it would truely be YOUR team.

This could overall improve the feeling of a "we", when you are approaching the size that a matchup will be "you team" against another alliance.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Mabi black.1824]

yes I thought about it, also because many of you have suggested it to me. also for this beta we organized ourselves and brought more groups together, but honestly it's not the same thing.

world = group of allied guilds is a calculation that does not come back to me, this perspective is for me reductive, exclusive . I prefer another bigger and more inclusive perspective.

even in my real life I am a very liberal and democratic one. I don't like it when someone wants to limit my freedom and wants to make decisions for me. here I am thinking of players other than me , all those who do not have a guild but are part of a team right now. 

they will find themselves spinning like spinning tops, and this I really can not stand . they will be forced to join a guild, and even that I can't stand. 

we mean also 10 years of team to climb a ranking are really too many, any news in this mode you want to give me I will answer '' yes please ''. I also proposed to have a new wvw every Christmas day or if you prefer every New Year's Eve. the new alliance system builds new teams every 12 months, and the league of champions begins. that seemed to me to be a good compromise.

but no one on the other side of the wall (arenanet) says anything, even if he has ever considered having alliances and making them work in some way in a team cancetto. nothing the darkness envelops me. 😎

[Mabi black.1824]

please can you just pretend with me and just imagine getting to the end of the championship and only for those who will have been the most skilled to get a week of EU vs NA vs ASIA. for all other wvw free and opens the week of football market. the most total frenzy alliances that you change new groups that organize themselves and so on. and then at Christmas a new wvw and off we go. transfers allowed but reworked teams with very similar flows and 24/7 dynamically reworked.

you can see it with me, fantastic, every year you will be stimulated to give your best to make your team win, a really long-term perspective. and since dreaming has no limits, I leave you ebg in the middle and give you 12 new maps around in rotation will change every month.

[Sahne.6950]

25 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

here I am thinking of players other than me , all those who do not have a guild but are part of a team right now. 

they will find themselves spinning like spinning tops, and this I really can not stand .

Dont wanna burst your bubble, but alot of people are not that much in touch with their community/server than you and your server are. From all of your posts i heard that you and your "community/server" are very close together. However on alot of servers that is not the case all that much.

 

a huge portion of the WvW population would rather take even matchups than staying with their current server. The Servers that do have a nice Community and alot of people that want to stay together they have created Communityguilds which they will use when alliance have hit the live servers. Everyone that wants to stay with their server can do it, and people that dont care... dont care.

 

If your Community is truely this great as you make it sound like... you should have no problems staying together with them when alliances comes.

Just imagine the big "parentguild" and all of your "childguilds"

[Maguuma] ; [Maguumore] ; [Maguumost]   Dont you see it? ❤️

When alliances have hit live, we just have to wait a few weeks, people will get to know eachother and each matchup bigger groups will band because people will flock onto the bigges allianceguild that is currently populating this matchup. Until you have reached the point where your Community alone is enough that you are the only ones in the matchup.

YOU AGAINST THE OTHER PLEBS! i actually think it will even strengthen communitys. It is diffrent to what we have now... but i see potential.

 

They are not taking away your freedom... they are handing you more. You now have the tools to create your own Community on a scale never heard of before. Its all about perspectives.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Mabi black.1824]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

If your Community is truely this great as you make it sound like... you should have no problems staying together with them when alliances comes.

it's not about how I want you to believe how beautiful my community or server is. a proverb says: the whole world is a country. I am convinced that like my server everyone else you will also find beautiful and interesting things and you will also find bad or boring things. all normal. I don't care if mine is the train of winners or the train of losers. I'm interested in it being my train. I selected it many years ago or the system can change it every year, all right.

but I would still like my train, to get on I did not ask permission from another passenger and when I travel no other passenger chooses for me whether to stand, sit or lie down. 

a wide-ranging and inclusive mechanics world vs world . or a resized and exclusive guild vs guild mechanic (or guild group vs large guild).

I do not know by what other example I could express my point of view. because as you rightly say it is a matter of points of view, we two have different points of view, but this is still good because we are on this forum specifically to be able to express them freely.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[Chaba.5410]

6 hours ago, Scyras.5608 said:

• More then normal use of different languages. German, French. All fine by me...   
  But then, people start to make calls in those languages. I can't understand it. Someone links [Cragtop], or [Hills]. I asked for clarification the first few times, now I'm just "whatever man".
  I do not understand why you won't use English, if you want to communicate clearly. Either use it or start learning. It will benefit you greatly (and me).

 

I never understood this.  It's really not that difficult to learn the limited number of WvW jargon words and phrases in other languages, especially when some of the words are borrowed from English.  As for linking POIs only with absolutely zero additional information; that happens everywhere.

[LART.3748]

This beta restructure is awesome, and is necesary for a better game experience, but the only problem i see is lot of ppl are experiencing lag issues. 

[Zok.4956]

On 8/19/2022 at 1:29 PM, Sahne.6950 said:

Dont wanna burst your bubble, but alot of people are not that much in touch with their community/server than you and your server are. From all of your posts i heard that you and your "community/server" are very close together. However on alot of servers that is not the case all that much.

Just because a lot of / some servers don't have good server communities anymore does not mean that good server communities also must experience this.

I agree, several server communities are not very close together, anymore. This is a process that started a long time ago when Anet removed the concept of a "server" in Openworld-maps with the megaserver-map-instances (and shrunk server-communities to just WvW server communities).  With the reduced "server identity/community", guilds transferring/bandwaggonig between server became more common (sure it happened before, but it was not so common like it is now). Linking also destroyed a (very) few communities where the link-guests lost some of their identity. Server community/identity was/is more and more replaced (for some guilds) with guild communites/identity. But at least players without a guild could stay on the same server.

With Alliances the server identity will be reduced even more to zero and server identity will be completely replaced by Alliance-identiy/community and Guild-identity/community.

And players that are not well connected enough to start their own successful alliance and who don't want to obey the rules of some Alliance, will be the new homeless/canonfodder players of the new servers that are reshuffled every 2 months.

 

On 8/19/2022 at 1:29 PM, Sahne.6950 said:

The Servers that do have a nice Community and alot of people that want to stay together they have created Communityguilds which they will use when alliance have hit the live servers.

Agreed. On my server we have formed an "all welcome alliance guild" for the betas and we will probably form a likewise Alliance when the system is ready for doing this.

But how will this work in the future, if we compete against "only above platin-rank 300LI tryhard whatever only zerg classes no scouts" Alliances?  Will it still be "all welcome" if we hit the Alliance player cap? Will it be fun?  I don't know.

I guess a lot of the discussions and insecurities would have ended already if Anet hadn't neglected WvW for years and if Anet would now put a lot more resources into developing the alliance system (rather than just taking a few small baby steps) to complete it faster. It would already help if Anet would present/describe their planned final-system functionality in detail and not just some "next steps".  But I guess even Anet does not know this fully, yet.

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

And players that are not well connected enough to start their own successful alliance and who don't want to obey the rules of some Alliance, will be the new homeless/canonfodder players of the new servers that are reshuffled every 2 months.

Hmm, this to me is the same as saying that people which cant create a T1 quality 100+ man fight guild that can field 25+ on any given raid night might as well not bother creating a guild at all, they just gonna be cannonfodder.

The reality of WvW doesnt really look like that, does it?

[Vekks.6013]

Ultimately it's not your job or any other player's job to control or police people outside your guild, OP. This Beta and the WvW Restructuring had/has to happen to end the server stacking cycle. If you like other players outside your guild on your server, talk with them and get them into your guild or alliance when those are finally implemented. But again, it's not your job or your right to "excommunicate" commanders because they play the mode differently than you. So if that's your primary issue, outside of your guildmates not clicking the right button to get matched with your team, sorry. Some people like to karma train, some like to blob, some like to roam, some like to PPT their kitten off, and some of us are just here for the open field, outnumbered fights. There are people like you on every server, OP, that feel like they're some sort of important ruling figure that everyone should listen to and obey. That's not how it works. Command your squad, worry about your team, and respect other tags and their squads.