Time to talk about Power Mech in end-game PVE

[rrusse.7058]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:06 PM, Carnifex.3275 said:

Yeah.. some wings really feel like emboldened with pmechs. We atleast have 3-4 pmechs in our FC now. I mean.. when pmechs are top dps even on bosses like Matthias or Largos (where condi should be prioritized) you know something is wrong. 

Thanks very much for sharing.

Yeah I was and still am very confused as to why condi mech is getting a pretty harsh nerf. I don't recall condi mech being too much in any particular gamemode so what gives? The heal mech nerf I understand and yes technically pmech is getting a buff so yeah engineer is a little strange all around.

I suppose the pmech buff isn't necessarily intentional as Anrenanet has said they are trying to buff other specs by buffing the core which means mech gets it too.

[Carnifex.3275]

Well that's one of the issues with anet. Buffing/nerfing core traits instead of focusing on specific spec traits. Messin around with core traits leads to alot of problems.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Carnifex.3275

[krixis.9538]

Mech is not the issue.  Its the players who don't know how to play and dps with any other class that make the mech look so good.

 

If they stopped using high survival open-world builds and went full dps and learnt to play this would be a very different thread or non existent.

[LKEY.9567]

Calling for the nerf for Rifle Mech in Engineer forum, daring are we? Haha. Yeah, this is disaster in endgame content, this build needs to be nerfed. Every 4th player (according to Wingman) in raids is Mechanist, only to wonder how many of them are Rifle Mech (majority). This build is way too strong compared to it's complexity. Low-Intensity builds are fine but they can not be on par with meta dps builds with much more complex background, it is bad for the balance. Why would people play other classes if you can afk while auto-attacking and get better results? This is the approach I have seen at many runs, chats, guild calls. People abandons their builds for that, it's sad. Damage output alltogether should be cut by 1/4 while avoiding to thrash Holo and Scrapper. Yeah, good luck with that. 

[soul.9651]

14 minutes ago, krixis.9538 said:

Mech is not the issue.  Its the players who don't know how to play and dps with any other class that make the mech look so good.

 

If they stopped using high survival open-world builds and went full dps and learnt to play this would be a very different thread or non existent.

Yep if you go to any pug lfg which asks for kp everyone except rifle mechs will be running open world builds:') definetely. 

Like before you even type this kitten have u even seen any squads from lfg yourself? Oh wait you probably dont even do that type of content:) well maybe you get in only to the training runs, that would explain a lot

[ArjukKagrim.6049]

Only a few more hours till PMech gets the next buff. Embrace yourself, the true reign of the most ridiculous strong build in game is further enlarged. One dps-build to rule them all! Frodo, we need you again, where are u...

[Nash.2681]

4 minutes ago, ArjukKagrim.6049 said:

Only a few more hours till PMech gets the next buff. Embrace yourself, the true reign of the most ridiculous strong build in game is further enlarged. One dps-build to rule them all! Frodo, we need you again, where are u...

My hot take- while on his way to the Amon Amarth, he accidently crossed paths with Sparcus when some Power Rifle Mechs showed up...

[Styopa.2538]

With the Steam release, the fact that Mech is brain-dead to play and vastly OP means the game will be swarming with Engineers now.

The other night I was in a DS group that out of maybe 20 had 12 mech engineers.

 

I frikkin' hate being a class that's suddenly FotM.

[krixis.9538]

On 8/23/2022 at 4:03 PM, Styopa.2538 said:

With the Steam release, the fact that Mech is brain-dead to play and vastly OP means the game will be swarming with Engineers now.

The other night I was in a DS group that out of maybe 20 had 12 mech engineers.

 

I frikkin' hate being a class that's suddenly FotM.

This is assuming all the Free to play steam users will do this thing called BUYING or paying for game content. maybe a handfull of the steam players will buy the expansions. Most wont and will end up in the silver wastes farming bandit chests with longbow bear rangers

[DaKillaOfHell.5907]

Why nerfing?

Solo-ing some fractals, not to mention a lot of dungeons isn't imbalanced or too powerful. 

What can I do for the fact that >90% of ppl just can't play their class while I am in godmode with button-mashing not following any rotation at all?

 

Oh yeah, and please don't nerf it before I Solo Mordremoth CM. 

 

(I hope somebody understands sarcasm)

[Guybrush.4762]

I don't think nerfing the number directly is the ultimate fix for Power rifle mechanist.

As its core the problem is not that dps potential of the spec is too high ; if we compare the benchmark with other specs it looks ok. The problem imho is actually the low amount of player input required to achieve good dps resulting in high dps uptime regardless of fight mechanics. Still, having to compromise on your dps to comply with the mechanic is good design and simply buffing other specs to get them there is not desirable. We also can't redesign every boss encounter around the existence of Prifle mech. Something has to go... If I were Anet I would probably try a dps cut to no-input playstyle compensated by a dps buff to the skills you actually have to press.

Essentially the goal would be to shift from "press 3 buttons and be top dps in most pug squad, pressing more is a small dps increase" toward "it is a simple spec to handle that gets good results even with 3 buttons and that can go higher if you are willing to press more".

Edited August 27, 2022 by Guybrush.4762

[zeyeti.8347]

33 minutes ago, Guybrush.4762 said:

The problem imho is actually the low amount of player input required to achieve good dps resulting in high dps uptime regardless of fight mechanics

Thats the problem , the dps is ok , it's the amount of effort to reach that who is the core problem . I run it in every game content and i am mostly n1 dps by just clicking off cd skills with no specific order (and now i do even less , all my mech skills are automated , i am not proud of it but idc , efficiency is all that matters to me). What they need to nerf i think is the jade mech itself , problem is for me focus on the 2nd choice of trait u use , where 100% of certain of your stats goes to the mech , it makes an overperforming bot , i just tested it on golem , the jade mech only , deals 11-12k to the golem with auto skills enabled , that 33% of your damage !

Anet created a freaking monster , easy to play and performs very well in all roles and this class's gonna completely make the others useless (only fb will remain , still more performing than quickscrapper).

[krixis.9538]

53 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Thats the problem , the dps is ok , it's the amount of effort to reach that who is the core problem . I run it in every game content and i am mostly n1 dps by just clicking off cd skills with no specific order (and now i do even less , all my mech skills are automated , i am not proud of it but idc , efficiency is all that matters to me). What they need to nerf i think is the jade mech itself , problem is for me focus on the 2nd choice of trait u use , where 100% of certain of your stats goes to the mech , it makes an overperforming bot , i just tested it on golem , the jade mech only , deals 11-12k to the golem with auto skills enabled , that 33% of your damage !

Anet created a freaking monster , easy to play and performs very well in all roles and this class's gonna completely make the others useless (only fb will remain , still more performing than quickscrapper).

World OF Warcraft has a similar class called the Hunter with a beast master spec. 80% of the damage is from the pet with minimal player input.

 

Then again most classes in WoW are 2-3 button rotation now.

 

Complex is nice but if the vast % of the playerbase struggle then builds like the Rifle Mech will happen and will not be going away.

 

Then again if you are as good as you think you are then the 25-28k dps a 1 button rifle mech should be easy to wipe the floor with a 30-45k + sustain dps on bosses, and in most cases is not going to happen for most of the player base.

 

So let them have the easy to use spec that lets normal casual players experience and enjoy non CM strikes and easy raids (lets be honest raids in GW2 are a joke compared to WoW or FF14).

 

I love this game and played since early headstart 10 years ago. I personally think the mech is fine as its goal is easy access for the masses, and in that respect it has done that.

[zeyeti.8347]

17 minutes ago, krixis.9538 said:

World OF Warcraft has a similar class called the Hunter with a beast master spec. 80% of the damage is from the pet with minimal player input.

 

Then again most classes in WoW are 2-3 button rotation now.

 

Complex is nice but if the vast % of the playerbase struggle then builds like the Rifle Mech will happen and will not be going away.

 

Then again if you are as good as you think you are then the 25-28k dps a 1 button rifle mech should be easy to wipe the floor with a 30-45k + sustain dps on bosses, and in most cases is not going to happen for most of the player base.

 

So let them have the easy to use spec that lets normal casual players experience and enjoy non CM strikes and easy raids (lets be honest raids in GW2 are a joke compared to WoW or FF14).

 

I love this game and played since early headstart 10 years ago. I personally think the mech is fine as its goal is easy access for the masses, and in that respect it has done that.

Not agree on that 33% of the players choosing mech in endgame (even hardcore players) is a problem , either mech is too strong or other classes are just trash (point of view) , Just to tell you i tried my catalyst again , trying an "easy" rotation on it , switching attunements using only skills that deal damage , using my reinforce skills in the right jade sphere ... trying to upkeep the freaking EE to 10  stacks as long as i could ... i ended up at 26k ... i took a kitten and put my mechanist on golem , when i came back i did 31k ... is that fine to you ? Not for me sure , anet can remove 50% of the classes in their game and their own related e-specs actually , and the méta wont be troubled a bit , some ppl wouldnt even notice , like " huh ele is no more available ??? couldnt tell , never saw one ...".

If your argument is valid , every class should have an easy near to afk build that reach the same effectiveness , and a more complicated  who deals +20% 25% damage . at least my arcdps will no longer be all orange colored... and for your information i solely play mech now on all engame content (or fb if quick i needed) as tank , healer , dps , alacrity provider so i can easily tell you it's a broken spec ... cause i dont want to play anything else ! cause anything else is less efficient in any of these specific roles.

Edited August 27, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[soul.9651]

On 8/27/2022 at 2:53 PM, zeyeti.8347 said:

Not agree on that 33% of the players choosing mech in endgame (even hardcore players) is a problem , either mech is too strong or other classes are just trash (point of view)

At least looking at gw2wingman this is by far the most unbalanced meta this game ever had in its entire history, its just hilarious when people were saying that ham was the main problem of mech stacking, and now after the ham and condi mech nerfs mech got even more popular, and guess which build is rly beeing stacked from the beggining (yep same rifle mech)

[PzTnT.7198]

Id say that a mechanist nerf is inevitable. 

My guess for what will be changed is that the mech will either end up time limited (Like it drops in and stays for 30 seconds before going on a 30 second cooldown. Perhaps with extra damage for ALL the tötalmegahelldeath while its active.) or have its autoattack damage nerfed into the ground. Probably with stuff being changed to increase player damage output to make it more difficult to play and actually force more of a choice between damage and utility. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by PzTnT.7198

[Calen.8945]

They need to put more power into the mace and less into the mech.