State of ranger

[Zaret.1450]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:04 PM, Sansar.1302 said:

LOL what game are you playing? ,  have not been killed by a soul beast on my core ranger for well over a year.  Soul beast is good vs thives and that's it sadly

 

I have seen plenty soulbeast oneshoting people in wvw, i mean yeah its not god like but its pretty decent still, at least wvw wise

[Mell.4873]

On 8/20/2022 at 12:01 AM, zaswer.5246 said:

I have seen plenty soulbeast oneshoting people in wvw, i mean yeah its not god like but its pretty decent still, at least wvw wise

It is currently the highest burst DPS class in the game, even Bladesworn isn't quite there although it is more reliable damage.

[Valfar.3761]

I found sic em soulbeast sniper to be very ineffective in WvW. Your commander wants you to be moving with him 100% of the time and you're liable to get kicked if you stop to cast barrage (not to mention the high chance of dying as your zerg moves away from you while you're stuck casting barrage). There is also the problem that zergs have the anti-projectile bubbles up most of the time, so there goes your DPS. Better to move with the group and stance share while hurling the auto-attack axes.

[Zyreva.1078]

10 hours ago, Valfar.3761 said:

I found sic em soulbeast sniper to be very ineffective in WvW. Your commander wants you to be moving with him 100% of the time and you're liable to get kicked if you stop to cast barrage (not to mention the high chance of dying as your zerg moves away from you while you're stuck casting barrage). There is also the problem that zergs have the anti-projectile bubbles up most of the time, so there goes your DPS. Better to move with the group and stance share while hurling the auto-attack axes.

Sic'em sniper is not meant to be a zerg build.

It's like claiming scourge is ineffective in WvW after trying to solo roam with it and getting run over all the time ...

Edited August 22, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Mell.4873]

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Sic'em sniper is not meant to be a zerg build.

It's like claiming scourge is ineffective in WvW after trying to solo roam with it and getting run over all the time ...

That is true,

I am currently testing a Untamed version which has better mobility but most people don't understand what I am playing. I guess the reputation of "Sic Em" Soulbeast is not great.

[Beddo.1907]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

but most people don't understand what I am playing.

You are playing a ranger spec that isn't Druid.
In WvW zerg that says enough about how useful you are.  The reputation doesn't change the fact that outside of druid we have no:
-non projectile dps range weapons
-team wide high value boons with decent duration
-good damage ground target aoe's (Mud barely makes a difference, Call lightning needs Jaca merge and LB5 needs you to stand)
-team healing/barrier
-consistent utility (like condi cleanse, stun breaks, projectile hate...)

While we have:
-a pet that will screw up the stealth push and die leaving you with below usual stats.

[Mell.4873]

2 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

-non projectile dps range weapons
-team wide high value boons with decent duration
-good damage ground target aoe's (Mud barely makes a difference, Call lightning needs Jaca merge and LB5 needs you to stand)
-team healing/barrier
-consistent utility (like condi cleanse, stun breaks, projectile hate...)

While we have:
-a pet that will screw up the stealth push and die leaving you with below usual stats.

• non projectile dps range weapons: I cycle Barrage on a 10 second cooldown, this goes through all defense and is hard to avoid since it literally cripples you.
• team wide high value boons with decent duration: Given I don't use any since I'm running all super speed utilities
• good damage ground target aoe's: Barrage
• team healing/barrier: None
• consistent utility: probably the biggest problem i face
• a pet that will screw up the stealth push and die leaving you with below usual stats: just have him follow you and then unleash F1-F3 when dueling. 

[Beddo.1907]

9 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

non projectile dps range weapons: I cycle Barrage on a 10 second cooldown, this goes through all defense and is hard to avoid since it literally cripples you.

Only 1 skill and you need to stand. After you use barrage you do no damage afterwards for 10-20s (assuming that you didn't get killed due to standing still).

10 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

good damage ground target aoe's: Barrage

Previous point + I said aoe"S". Doesn't change the fact that we have only one aoe of this type and the damage is not even good unless the enemy zerg decides to stand in it for all 12 hits.

10 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

a pet that will screw up the stealth push and die leaving you with below usual stats: just have him follow you and then unleash F1-F3 when dueling. 

Stealth thing is still a problem and when pet follows you, it does nothing mentionable besides the f3 shield.

[anduriell.6280]

Ranger is depression. And it doesn’t seem anet is remotely interested in change that. 

[Sansar.1302]

On 8/18/2022 at 8:29 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

haha 😄 add me ingame, we can change that.

There is no way on earth a Core ranger can beat a CeleBoonbeast... not happening...

Core ranger as a whole is kind of lacking, especially in WvW. Good players will focus the pet and thus stealing your ability to petswap and profit from the boons it gives for 50 seconds.  Simply wait till the core range has switched and then focus the pet. From that point on, its GG. Sadly Druid is suffering from the same Couter-mechanic. Especially in the WvW setting, where damage is on average higher... the pets melt to fast.

Against a Soubeast this doesnt work, as he can revive the pet at any time.

If you are talking about spvp... yeah core can perform... but i still think that Soubleast is in a better spot, if we are looking at the role it has to perform in in the setting of Conquest. You are a roamer / dps for midfights. The Coreranger cant fill the role of the Middps, as his pets will wipe instantly in the mids of all the AoE-vomit in midfight. So you are pushed to the sidenode/roamer, but here you are competing with specters/Heralds/Bladesworns for the spot....

Core Ranger might win a actual 1v1 in the FFA, but sadly it has no spot in a well thoughtout teamcomp for higher elo.

 

/add me ingame! i want to see whats goin on with your Ranger. If you can reliably beat Soulbeast... mayybe you know more than me. Are you playing with Traps? whats the deal?

 

 

.

You where alredy on my friends list sent a mail but have not goten any reply from you , dont you play ele ?

[Sahne.6950]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:59 PM, Sansar.1302 said:

You where alredy on my friends list sent a mail but have not goten any reply from you , dont you play ele ?

Hey!

i was not online for the last 3 weeks... got myself a switch and i am nolifing SSBU Elite Smash. Idk... just dont feel like logging in lately...

I play Ele / Ranger / Thief / Rev.

will you be on today?

[Zaret.1450]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:35 AM, Beddo.1907 said:

You are playing a ranger spec that isn't Druid.
In WvW zerg that says enough about how useful you are.  The reputation doesn't change the fact that outside of druid we have no:
-non projectile dps range weapons
-team wide high value boons with decent duration
-good damage ground target aoe's (Mud barely makes a difference, Call lightning needs Jaca merge and LB5 needs you to stand)
-team healing/barrier
-consistent utility (like condi cleanse, stun breaks, projectile hate...)

While we have:
-a pet that will screw up the stealth push and die leaving you with below usual stats.

well i agree with some things, but remember that untamed has some good utilities, hammer and gs are good melee area dmg, also untamed has 2entangles, pet unleash have a bubble, a pet tp that blinds, and a boon strip in area that also is a blast finisher, so you could use smokescale to create more stealths, pets can be taken out before invis and they come out when you enter combat.

The main problem untamed has is that ranged dmg is mostly projectiles as you said and that pets are incredibly weak to area dmg, also the pet bubble and turtle bubble have very little duration.

All that said, if turtle autos and bubble were a bit better, i mean its ranged autos not bugging when attacking canons and stuff, and bubble being a second longer or so, pets in general got a couple reworks, like not taking boons from alies in wvw and receiving less dmg from areas, like a 5% or 10%, then untamed could perfectly work as a front line dps with hammer that could inmov and has a little boon strip, whike on sieges lb5 is great for dmg mortars and stuff like that and pets bubbles are also usefull as they have little cd.

Im not saying its the best, im saying it can be usefull if well played and with a couple changes.

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

well i agree with some things, but remember that untamed has some good utilities, hammer and gs are good melee area dmg, also untamed has 2entangles, pet unleash have a bubble, a pet tp that blinds, and a boon strip in area that also is a blast finisher, so you could use smokescale to create more stealths, pets can be taken out before invis and they come out when you enter combat.

The main problem untamed has is that ranged dmg is mostly projectiles as you said and that pets are incredibly weak to area dmg, also the pet bubble and turtle bubble have very little duration.

All that said, if turtle autos and bubble were a bit better, i mean its ranged autos not bugging when attacking canons and stuff, and bubble being a second longer or so, pets in general got a couple reworks, like not taking boons from alies in wvw and receiving less dmg from areas, like a 5% or 10%, then untamed could perfectly work as a front line dps with hammer that could inmov and has a little boon strip, whike on sieges lb5 is great for dmg mortars and stuff like that and pets bubbles are also usefull as they have little cd.

Im not saying its the best, im saying it can be usefull if well played and with a couple changes.

If you roll my build of lowering the barrage cooldown to 10 seconds(weapon swap) it is not all bad. That gives you enough time to reposition and try again. Not to mention it is very good damage. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 8/17/2022 at 5:28 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

Ranger and useless in PvE?

Did you really call the class with the highest dps benchmark of all classes, beating the second place by whole 3k dps, useless? Untamed is a godly dps elite spec. Alacrity untamed is the best dps alacrity provider in the game currently.

At this point, you probably can't get pleased anyway.

This is not true.

While sitting on an infinite uninterrupted golem rotation, it makes the Untamed build look good. Realistically in actual fractals/raids/strikes where spirits take damage, the Untamed can't heal them, and you are trying to land arguably the hardest damage rotation while having boss mechanics interrupt your progress, the actual DPS is easily half of what golem benchmarks show. There is also time wasted trying to maintain alac recasts. Time spent resummoning spirits is time spent not DPSing.

These meta-sites should probably stop posting builds like this tbh. It's quite disappointing when players dip resources to build what looks amazing in a golem benchmark video, only to see it realistically performs at half the value of some otherwise practical build. And quite often those "practical" builds also provide more defensive value which equates to general survival, like a Power Soulbeast with a Greatsword. The Greatsword 3 & 4 are very powerful self-survival.

[anduriell.6280]

On 9/9/2022 at 7:49 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

hese meta-sites should probably stop posting builds like this tbh. It's quite disappointing when players dip resources to build what looks amazing in a golem benchmark video, only to see it realistically performs at half the value of some otherwise practical build. And quite often those "practical" builds also provide more defensive value which equates to general survival, like a Power Soulbeast with a Greatsword. The Greatsword 3 & 4 are very powerful self-survival.

The part i find funny is only  people who doesn't play ranger outside of roleplaying in hoelbrak are the ones writing this unvealiable posts about unfun being top support or higest dps of them all. 

Like the only check ranger in the wiki. 

 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

The part i find funny is only  people who doesn't play ranger outside of roleplaying in hoelbrak are the ones writing this unvealiable posts about unfun being top support or higest dps of them all. 

Like the only check ranger in the wiki. 

 

It is the highest DPS though. It's a condi weaver rotation, but it is still highest dps in the game currently.

[anduriell.6280]

21 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

It is the highest DPS though. It's a condi weaver rotation, but it is still highest dps in the game currently.

You lost me there. Weaver rotation? 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

4 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

You lost me there. Weaver rotation? 

Sorry, I should specify.

 

It's as hard as the condi weaver rotation. Extremely high APM with very little you can do to make it easier.

[anduriell.6280]

On 9/12/2022 at 6:06 PM, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Sorry, I should specify. It's as hard as the condi weaver rotation. Extremely high APM with very little you can do to make it easier.

No worries, I understand now. 
yes agreed, I am not sure about the dps being the highest, I though is was the mech or the catalyst, but I have heard the rotation can only being done by a macro or looking at the keyboard all the time.

I would say that is fail in mechanics design. 

[Infusion.7149]

Ranger isn't useless in PVE. Far from it. It does the push , immob, and kiter role as druid on quite a few bosses currently such as Soulless Horror, Vale Guardian, Gorseval, Sabetha, Keep Construct, Samarog, Dhuum, etc.  When not performing those roles it can heal and provide alacrity via spirits.  Due to the change  on blast gyro it will remain the best knockback when you are using healbrand (shield knockback isn't that far) to be honest.

As soulbeast it is often the best choice for Adina and Keep Construct as pDPS (except mechanist is easier to play) and after the OWP changes it isn't that difficult to get full usage out of the skill either. The only thing more burst is really bladesworn and that is fully melee more or less.

In WVW it is bad because of the playerbase that likes to camp longbow. It isn't because the class is bad, other specs simply provide more support than stancesharing (even if Dolyak stance share is pretty decent), greatsword isn't a strong standout in terms of melee damage even if decent,  and druid as well as untamed can't stow pets mid combat. Power soulbeast is more or less the strongest ranger variant to play in a group currently even if hammer untamed may be alluring to some people. Untamed never had hammer damage increases in WVW since EOD launched.

In PVP I am unsure since I haven't really PVPed since EOD launch but in beta untamed didn't have the disadvantage of the pet vaporizing as in WVW. From what I have seen on major sites, the untamed variant of GS+LB is similar to the last time I played ranger on core valk. Arenanet posted a druid related picture for the preview of this week's balance discussion so they are probably looking into making druid viable in PVP as a support rather than just a decap/immob spam build.

 

[anduriell.6280]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

the OWP changes it isn't that difficult to get full usage out of the skill either.

What changes? The only one I know is the nerf to the CD and interval nerf. Those a very bad nerf and the fact you thing they are “good” is because you know nothing and balance the ranger by the wiki.

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

In WVW it is bad

Period. It is not the “playerbase”. Ranger is bad in wvw for a Miriam of reasons.

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

In PVP I am unsure

In pvp is very mediocre. When pewpew soulbeast was a thing it had an spot. When druid cap was a thing it had an spot. Not meta but an single reason to be in that game mode. 
 

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Ranger isn't useless in PVE

And this, ranger is useless in PvE. It brings nothing to the team and any other classes do a better and  easier  job at what the ranger can manage. 
the only reason this class is used in raids is because pugs haven’t catch up with the new meta which surprise: does not include Druid or ranger at all. 
And because every pug want a personal ressbot 24/7. 

[Infusion.7149]

26 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

What changes? The only one I know is the nerf to the CD and interval nerf. Those a very bad nerf and the fact you thing they are “good” is because you know nothing and balance the ranger by the wiki.

Period. It is not the “playerbase”. Ranger is bad in wvw for a Miriam of reasons.

In pvp is very mediocre. When pewpew soulbeast was a thing it had an spot. When druid cap was a thing it had an spot. Not meta but an single reason to be in that game mode. 
 

And this, ranger is useless in PvE. It brings nothing to the team and any other classes do a better and  easier  job at what the ranger can manage. 
the only reason this class is used in raids is because pugs haven’t catch up with the new meta which surprise: does not include Druid or ranger at all. 
And because every pug want a personal ressbot 24/7. 

OWP changes were a nerf for the top soulbeast players when they changed it to 1s interval. The recharge nerf was a year ago. I know, because I suggested it be reverted and I was the one that did the edit on the wiki that day. It was reverted this June but the duration (window) was reduced to 6s down from 8s while damage per hit increased by 50%. It was inline with soulcleave summit changes on renegade so it was not out of the ordinary for Arenanet. Arenanet is consistently lowering skill ceiling.

You're welcome to think it is useless in PVE but that is a wrong opinion because top players don't say that only you. Moreover you consistently complained about ranger even when it was the dominant support due to spirits. People still need push roles (especially on SH, which I ran with multiple random different groups this week with people on emboldened ; also on VG), still want immob (which druid excels at). Many guides still reference druid, so if you don't use one you need to make do with healbrand shield 5 or mechanist pushes on rifle and force signet (so not "HAM"). Soulbeast is also the most common handkiter on Deimos to this day. What is commonly held belief among the general public is that rifle mechanist is overperforming so they will outDPS you if you slack. I outDPS-ed 3 rifle mechs the other day on power soulbeast and I haven't even been playing that much instanced PVE since EOD dropped. I've also seen a relatively famous streamer top DPS on VG with bladesworn. Most people won't bother unless they are going for a speedrun or something, I don't think it's worth the extra effort but that goes for just about every power spec especially fully melee ones (which soulbeast isn't fully as of last patch with axe x2) due to rifle mechanist's 80%+ performance while "afk".

The only thing that really changed for the general playerbase since EOD dropped is that mechanist overtook the power meta as well as the heal and alacrity role ("HAM"), which meant that people try to work around the push/immob roles. This didn't happen at the inception of EOD, only really after the changes to add rifle explosions and adjust Aim Assisted Rocket along with banner/spirit reworks. Virtuosos I see generally are on condi because condi virtuoso is "low intensity" moreso than power. Bladesworn (the other main power spec) generally isn't run in PUGs, most of the bladesworns I see are streamers or people just trying not to play power mechanist. Catalyst was utterly gutted for the most part, harbinger doesn't have a strong power build, power specter isn't a thing, vindicator is worse sustain pDPS than herald while only one dodge, etc.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Mell.4873]

I can speak to Conquest PvP.

Currently Ranger especially Untamed (which replaced Core) and Soulbeast dominate in high level pvp. They are a jack of all trades class with great ranged damage for team fights and great melee burst for duels.

For Condition damage (my preference) Untamed has many controlling effects to shut down counter play. It is very easy to prevent a resurrections by combining stuns with projectile blocks to finish people. Pretty much the entire Untamed kit can have your chase someone (Unnatural Traversal) or provide AoE DPS(Ambush's) and normally at the same time.

Honestly the main reason we don't see Druids used anymore because we don't see Supports/Bunker in high-level PvP outside of Tournaments. I never see people swap to support if there isn't any so that meta element is dead.

 

For WvW

This is more tricky since like i have stated before there are 3 different builds required per party size.

• Soulbeast is generally regarded as one of the best duelist
• Untamed is great for a raiding parties (projectile block)
• Druid is best for Zergs

I have had a lot of fun recently with a very aggressive Druid build.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Mell.4873

[anduriell.6280]

After reading the last two comments i only can say that i would like to play the game they are playing.