The actual balance of Mechanist

[The Boz.2038]

On 9/9/2022 at 6:59 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Why would you want to buff power reaper to power mechanist levels of degeneracy?

Because (power) reaper is the most selfish DPS in the entire game, while also the most "self-sufficient" with boons. It is balanced against all other specs in a "vacuum" of everyone being naked, but in any sort of organized content, it loses, and it loses badly. It has *no* role outside of damage dealing, and it is not good at it. 

[Stx.4857]

A few things:

 

As long as the mech itself can deal 10k dps with auto attacks...  the spec will be very difficult to balance properly.  Necro minions and Ranger pets don't deal close to 10k do they?

 

Shift signet is clearly too good.  Heal signet passive is too good.

 

Rifle auto attack is a little too good.  My suggestion would be to remove the explosion, and just keep the auto attack damage the same as is.  Put the explosion on the blunderbuss skill, renamed it grenade launcher, and slightly reduce its cooldown.  The main reason rifle auto attacks deal so much dps is the incredible synergy with all dps trait procs and passives that having an explosion on the auto grants.

[The Boz.2038]

3 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

As long as the mech itself can deal 10k dps with auto attacks...  the spec will be very difficult to balance properly.  Necro minions and Ranger pets don't deal close to 10k do they?

Mech itself autoattacking is not 10k, nor is it with using skills. What does using skills count as? Is it the engie? Because you can only have one of them on autocast, and that bump is minimal.

3 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

Shift signet is clearly too good.  Heal signet passive is too good.

Disagreed tentatively on Shift. Mechanist needs both functions somewhere. Signet needs to be overloaded because it compensates for "no tool belt skill". Which means no non-signet is worth equipping, barring a very few exceptions (tool belt is balanced pathetically, that is an Engineer problem, not a Mechanist problem). Heal sig is fine as is. 

3 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

Rifle auto attack is a little too good.

Heavily disagreed. If a nerf needs to happen here, it is to split the skill into a shot-shot-boom chain, retaining the same overall DPS. 

Bear in mind that Mechanist is not the #1 performer. Hell, it is not in the top 10, either. What carries it in popularity is ease of use, not absolute impact in some optimized comp. And you know what? Maybe the bottom contenders that are complex to play (condi holo, weaver, etc) should be buffed to this standard, instead of the pMech being nerfed because, I dunno, popular...

[Infusion.7149]

7 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Because (power) reaper is the most selfish DPS in the entire game, while also the most "self-sufficient" with boons. It is balanced against all other specs in a "vacuum" of everyone being naked, but in any sort of organized content, it loses, and it loses badly. It has *no* role outside of damage dealing, and it is not good at it. 

It's still realistically going to be an openworld easy content spec due to how a melee shroud works. In openworld if it's a single boss and that boss hits hard and doesn't instantly melt it isn't good there either due to life force depravation. This is not just my opinion but also of Lord Hizen. Even you yourself say it is a "selfish DPS". Let's say it does 38K benchmark : anywhere there is heavy tick damage , movement, or incidental damage it isn't going to be as strong as scourge which is non-projectile , non-melee and can actually make use of epidemic (see Mursaat Overseer, Soulless Horror, Sabetha, Gorseval, Slothasor, etc). That's in contrast to power harbinger which is held back by the stat deficit and lack of greatsword. Anywhere a reaper excels the scourges and harbingers excel even more since the life force isn't drained whatsoever by incidental damage.

The only place I can think of historically people would use reapers is Qadim lamp duty, and even then it is debatable whether to use that over a daredevil or other spec. People playing reaper on say Keep Construct or Conjured Amalgamate tend to be necro mains and all the new strikes reflect this as well (even the simplest Icebrood Construct) since scourge tends to be the number one necro spec played. Even on Vale Guardian it's preferable to use scourge due to tick damage unless the red guardian is being handled by what is typically a condi firebrand. On something like Adina, just adding DPS doesn't make it strong since you won't be able to pillar kite on a melee greatsword and melee shroud. You won't be able to effectively pylon kite on QtP with reaper for example.

There's been calls by revenants, guardians, elementalists , warriors, and other classes for buffs to vindicator, DH, power weaver, and power spellbreaker (PVP spec IMO) which I feel will receive far more traction than any call for reaper improvements in the instanced content realm.

The correct approach is to tone down mech ranged damage , not to expect reaper to get 38K benchmark which it still not going to make it a strong spec for most scenarios. Expecting a 37K+ baseline for power specs is unrealistic.

---
edit:
Also this bit is plain wrong that you claim the rifle mech's bot isn't doing 10K DPS. I've tested it without any autocasts and it is easily 8K+ with just vuln which exceeds condi untamed with all pet skills. With 10 conditions (modified ammunition is +2% per condition) that is easily 10K. The official 10 condition snowcrows benchmark is 14K+ with mech bot itself and numerous people have tested autocast skills doing 29K just autoing with standard boon setups.

See also " Untamed and mechanist elite specializations may set one, two, or all three to autoattack simultaneously."

44 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Mech itself autoattacking is not 10k, nor is it with using skills. What does using skills count as? Is it the engie? Because you can only have one of them on autocast, and that bump is minimal.

Disagreed tentatively on Shift. Mechanist needs both functions somewhere. Signet needs to be overloaded because it compensates for "no tool belt skill". Which means no non-signet is worth equipping, barring a very few exceptions (tool belt is balanced pathetically, that is an Engineer problem, not a Mechanist problem). Heal sig is fine as is. 

Heavily disagreed. If a nerf needs to happen here, it is to split the skill into a shot-shot-boom chain, retaining the same overall DPS. 

Bear in mind that Mechanist is not the #1 performer. Hell, it is not in the top 10, either. What carries it in popularity is ease of use, not absolute impact in some optimized comp. And you know what? Maybe the bottom contenders that are complex to play (condi holo, weaver, etc) should be buffed to this standard, instead of the pMech being nerfed because, I dunno, popular...

Edited September 13, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[The Boz.2038]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

It's still realistically going to be an openworld easy content spec

An OW easy content spec is not a high bar. In fact, the bar is on the ground. 

[Emberheart.8426]

6 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Mech itself autoattacking is not 10k, nor is it with using skills. What does using skills count as? Is it the engie? Because you can only have one of them on autocast, and that bump is minimal.

Disagreed tentatively on Shift. Mechanist needs both functions somewhere. Signet needs to be overloaded because it compensates for "no tool belt skill". Which means no non-signet is worth equipping, barring a very few exceptions (tool belt is balanced pathetically, that is an Engineer problem, not a Mechanist problem). Heal sig is fine as is. 

Heavily disagreed. If a nerf needs to happen here, it is to split the skill into a shot-shot-boom chain, retaining the same overall DPS. 

Bear in mind that Mechanist is not the #1 performer. Hell, it is not in the top 10, either. What carries it in popularity is ease of use, not absolute impact in some optimized comp. And you know what? Maybe the bottom contenders that are complex to play (condi holo, weaver, etc) should be buffed to this standard, instead of the pMech being nerfed because, I dunno, popular...

Yes, so toolbelt is so valuable that you need to have by far the best pet in the game and overloaded utility skills. This toolbelt excuse has gotten completely out of hand. It's quite clear that the mech by itself is overcompensating as it is. Using the excuse for the signet skills as well is tone deaf.

Holosmith only gives up 1 tool belt skill and gets the entire photon forge, and yet is still performing quite a bit worse than mech overall.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

On 9/10/2022 at 3:37 PM, anbujackson.9564 said:

The ones saying that other spec/classes should just be buffed (to the same level):

Are you even aware how much you would need to change certain professions to get the same effectiveness? Like at all? 

The spec needs to be ranged, able to move freely and only needs to press 5 buttons max. How would you do that on Warrior? Elementalist? Revenant? Thief? Ranger? Like literally any build?

Just having a similiar dps number as a melee spec on the golem wont change that mech performs better. 

When we say other specs should be buffed, we don't mean making reskinned copies of mechanist.  What we mean is fair compensation for complexity and survival, either through damage and/or utility.

This detail seems to fly over a lot of people's heads... for some reason... but there's a reason why it is I did Renegade Sword + Shiro test earlier in this thread.  It was to compare to the last one I did, which was 24k pre-June, and to compare it to the the old Herald version which was 26k several years ago.  Even with the recent global damage buffs, Revenant Sword is still 10% lower than it was pre-June, 20% lower than AA Mechanist.  This means that sword rev is currently underpowered relative to itself and relative to the mechanist in all dimensions sans self-buffs.  Of course, Jade Tech Buffs made self-booning worthless, so it really means that power Rev is, quite objectively, underpowered.

To make things fair for revenant, it needs to be buffed.  There are numerous ways to do it, but without overhauling the entire profession there's three ways to do it.  First, make Revenant far more durable, via damage reduction and self-sustain to put them at equal risk to rifle mechanist.  This is... not ideal, because staying alive doesn't complete content or win fights.  Damage is what wins.  Once the threshold of survival is reached anything else is just excess.  Second method is to simply increase the damage.  A 20% increase on auto attacks alongside of a cumulative 20% increase on all power damage is a good place to start.  Third method is to simply make power revenant do more while simultaneously doing it's damage.  My original method for this was self-boons, but now that is worthless the second best is to throw a bunch of additional conditions and effects onto standard DPS abilities.  I.E. if Rift Slash inflicted non-trivial amounts of weakness (3 seconds base duration per rift, at least), Arcing Mists doing 5 seconds of chill while also doing 1/4th a second of daze, etc. and so on.  Basically, feature creep.  This is part of why I'm more in favor of nerfing Mechanist than anything else.

 

It's ironic that AA rev always ends up in a flame war.  The worst balanced PVE profession right now is elementalist.  The whole thing was initially designed around combo finishers and fields, but now that those are obsolete the ele contributes almost nothing at all.  Ele requires an immense amount of effort and an immense amount of risk for mediocre damage and no payoffs in group support and utility.  

[anbujackson.9564]

48 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

When we say other specs should be buffed, we don't mean making reskinned copies of mechanist.  What we mean is fair compensation for complexity and survival, either through damage and/or utility.

This detail seems to fly over a lot of people's heads... for some reason... but there's a reason why it is I did Renegade Sword + Shiro test earlier in this thread.  It was to compare to the last one I did, which was 24k pre-June, and to compare it to the the old Herald version which was 26k several years ago.  Even with the recent global damage buffs, Revenant Sword is still 10% lower than it was pre-June, 20% lower than AA Mechanist.  This means that sword rev is currently underpowered relative to itself and relative to the mechanist in all dimensions sans self-buffs.  Of course, Jade Tech Buffs made self-booning worthless, so it really means that power Rev is, quite objectively, underpowered.

To make things fair for revenant, it needs to be buffed.  There are numerous ways to do it, but without overhauling the entire profession there's three ways to do it.  First, make Revenant far more durable, via damage reduction and self-sustain to put them at equal risk to rifle mechanist.  This is... not ideal, because staying alive doesn't complete content or win fights.  Damage is what wins.  Once the threshold of survival is reached anything else is just excess.  Second method is to simply increase the damage.  A 20% increase on auto attacks alongside of a cumulative 20% increase on all power damage is a good place to start.  Third method is to simply make power revenant do more while simultaneously doing it's damage.  My original method for this was self-boons, but now that is worthless the second best is to throw a bunch of additional conditions and effects onto standard DPS abilities.  I.E. if Rift Slash inflicted non-trivial amounts of weakness (3 seconds base duration per rift, at least), Arcing Mists doing 5 seconds of chill while also doing 1/4th a second of daze, etc. and so on.  Basically, feature creep.  This is part of why I'm more in favor of nerfing Mechanist than anything else.

 

It's ironic that AA rev always ends up in a flame war.  The worst balanced PVE profession right now is elementalist.  The whole thing was initially designed around combo finishers and fields, but now that those are obsolete the ele contributes almost nothing at all.  Ele requires an immense amount of effort and an immense amount of risk for mediocre damage and no payoffs in group support and utility.  

Fair compensation for complexity and survival means you get 46k catalyst again (without quickness), if you keep mech exactly the way it is.

Please dont suggest such things. If mech is doing 38k now, a fair compensation would be mid 40's im terms of just damage. Adding more utility isnt better either.

PvE endgame should be challenging. Whats the point in raiding if we keep buffing? You shouldnt get kills if you keep eating mechanics but yet supports with huge utility carry you through anyway. You shouldnt kill a boss im less than 3 minutes but yet damage is so high that you actively have to try to do less damage. Especially if there is 30k autoattack only. But hey you get surprised every time again if you keep playing with other people.

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by anbujackson.9564

[The Boz.2038]

5 hours ago, Emberheart.8426 said:

Yes, so toolbelt is so valuable that you need to have by far the best pet in the game and overloaded utility skills. This toolbelt excuse has gotten completely out of hand. It's quite clear that the mech by itself is overcompensating as it is. Using the excuse for the signet skills as well is tone deaf.

Holosmith only gives up 1 tool belt skill and gets the entire photon forge, and yet is still performing quite a bit worse than mech overall.

Try playing core, holo, or scrapper and *never* touch an F key.
Lemme know how far you get!

[bossmitch.8037]

Quote

"PvE endgame should be challenging. Whats the point in raiding if we keep buffing? "

 

This is an "elitist" thinking. They tried this formula and made raids exclusive to die hards and try hards. Groups should be tested how they handled the mechanics not how much they memorized the rotations. Of course, the advantage of those who got solid rotations is faster clears. That's given. But to make it harder, nah, this is no-no and deterred new players and vets alike to end game content which they also paid as much as the die hards and try hards

[Emberheart.8426]

4 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Try playing core, holo, or scrapper and *never* touch an F key.
Lemme know how far you get!

Complete strawman argument. You can play all these specs at full potential and a mechanist will still be far more valuable in any group. Judging by the results of any player trying these builds it is self evident that mechanist gains far more than it loses. So no, you cannot use the toolbelt as an excuse for everything that mechanist gains. Results are the only thing that matters at the end of the day.

[bossmitch.8037]

3 minutes ago, Emberheart.8426 said:

Complete strawman argument. You can play all these specs at full potential and a mechanist will still be far more valuable in any group. Judging by the results of any player trying these builds it is self evident that mechanist gains far more than it loses. So no, you cannot use the toolbelt as an excuse for everything that mechanist gains. Results are the only thing that matters at the end of the day.

 

People often forgot the golden child firebrands in these arguments against mechanist. Firebrands are still uncontested in the value it provide to the group. Its either some people cannot accept that mechanist is a challenger in this aspect or just too focused on the mechanist and engineer class in general (which previously are hard to play class)

[The Boz.2038]

13 minutes ago, Emberheart.8426 said:

Complete strawman argument. You can play all these specs at full potential and a mechanist will still be far more valuable in any group. Judging by the results of any player trying these builds it is self evident that mechanist gains far more than it loses. So no, you cannot use the toolbelt as an excuse for everything that mechanist gains. Results are the only thing that matters at the end of the day.

Do you even know what a strawman is?

All other Engie utilities are balanced around there being two of them. Take grenade kit? You get a neat little button that throws a bunch of grenades for massive damage at once. Take heal turret? Enjoy a water combo field and some regen!
Most of these skills outright suck if they don't have their corresponding toolbelt component. This is something I warned about since the first Mechanist reveal Signets are designed to compensate for that right off the bat.

The rest of your comment is entirely off topic and meaningless, so I'll just ignore it.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

35 minutes ago, Emberheart.8426 said:

Complete strawman argument. You can play all these specs at full potential and a mechanist will still be far more valuable in any group. Judging by the results of any player trying these builds it is self evident that mechanist gains far more than it loses. So no, you cannot use the toolbelt as an excuse for everything that mechanist gains. Results are the only thing that matters at the end of the day.

You know, there is a way to test this.  Just compare Rifle AA power Mechanist with Rifle AA core engineer with the relevant utility skills while using their toolbelt skills.  I'm guessing... Grenade, Rifle, Toolkit for maximum damage, or Grenade + Rifle + Bomb for more relevance.

Let me know what results you got.

[Emberheart.8426]

17 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Do you even know what a strawman is?

All other Engie utilities are balanced around there being two of them. Take grenade kit? You get a neat little button that throws a bunch of grenades for massive damage at once. Take heal turret? Enjoy a water combo field and some regen!
Most of these skills outright suck if they don't have their corresponding toolbelt component. This is something I warned about since the first Mechanist reveal Signets are designed to compensate for that right off the bat.

The rest of your comment is entirely off topic and meaningless, so I'll just ignore it.

A strawman is an intentional misrepresentation of my position in order the beat that argument easier than my real one. I never claimed that toolbelt skills were useless and never needed to be pressed, yet here you were saying that I should try not using them. 

 

The utilities were designed around having the toolbelt skills but they do not suck on their own. Many classes have utilities that are just as "bad" or even worse. The toolbelt is merely your class mechanic and one of your compensations for no weapon swap, along with kits. Even if you were correct though it's not very relevant, because the mech by itself already more than compensates for the lack of a tool belt. The extra power of signets is just even more power creep on top of the mech.  And yes, the performance of the spec is the most relevant part, but it is convenient to ignore it when you have no arguments justifying why it's so strong. 

 

 

 

 

[Emberheart.8426]

41 minutes ago, bossmitch.8037 said:

 

People often forgot the golden child firebrands in these arguments against mechanist. Firebrands are still uncontested in the value it provide to the group. Its either some people cannot accept that mechanist is a challenger in this aspect or just too focused on the mechanist and engineer class in general (which previously are hard to play class)

Mechanist is no challenger to firebrand. The specs compliment each other perfectly and enforce each other's position in the meta. Your post reeks of cluelessness about the subject matter. One provides alacrity and the other quickness, they are not competing over anything for support. 

[ericpeggy.8206]

1 hour ago, bossmitch.8037 said:

 

在這些反對機械師的論點中，人們常常忘記了金童火把。Firebrands 在為集團提供的價值方面仍然無可爭議。要么有些人不能接受機械師是這方面的挑戰者，要么就是過於專注於機械師和工程師類（以前很難玩）

Maybe that is herald's and scrapper's business.

 

In some bosses that you don't need stability, ham's barrier is safer than healbrand.

 

I don't know what bias people have, but I don't see any hams overwhelmed by healbrands in raids and strike missions.

 

[draxynnic.3719]

19 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

Rifle auto attack is a little too good.  My suggestion would be to remove the explosion, and just keep the auto attack damage the same as is.  Put the explosion on the blunderbuss skill, renamed it grenade launcher, and slightly reduce its cooldown.  The main reason rifle auto attacks deal so much dps is the incredible synergy with all dps trait procs and passives that having an explosion on the auto grants.

Personally, I think the explosion was a good move, and should go to the pistol auto as well. It's a bit of a problem that the Explosives traitline pretty much forces you to go grenades.

9 hours ago, Emberheart.8426 said:

Yes, so toolbelt is so valuable that you need to have by far the best pet in the game and overloaded utility skills. This toolbelt excuse has gotten completely out of hand. It's quite clear that the mech by itself is overcompensating as it is. Using the excuse for the signet skills as well is tone deaf.

Holosmith only gives up 1 tool belt skill and gets the entire photon forge, and yet is still performing quite a bit worse than mech overall.

I think it is a reasonable justification for signet skills. Signets need to be able to compete with kits without the benefit of toolbelt skills, so being overtuned is justified. Engineer has always been characterised by the utilities being more significant than for other professions. The problem is when 'no toolbelt' gets used for superpowered signets AND a pet that's significantly stronger than any other in the game.

3 hours ago, bossmitch.8037 said:

 

People often forgot the golden child firebrands in these arguments against mechanist. Firebrands are still uncontested in the value it provide to the group. Its either some people cannot accept that mechanist is a challenger in this aspect or just too focused on the mechanist and engineer class in general (which previously are hard to play class)

Bit of a whataboutism there. Metanist has a significantly greater presence in the meta than firebrand without having the incumbency advantage.

[Obtena.7952]

The idea that there is 'fair compensation' to other specs because of mechanist is absurd. There is GOOD reason to have a variety of performance and complexity between all the specs because SOME people want different things to play how they want. Let's hope Anet doesn't forget that the BEST business approach for them with GW2 is to continue to appeal to a wide range of players with different desires and capabilities. 

If Anet homogenizes the spec options ... so to will they homogenize (and reduce) the playerbase. That's not good for ANY MMO. That's why lots of MMO's FAIL. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[bossmitch.8037]

6 hours ago, Emberheart.8426 said:

Mechanist is no challenger to firebrand. The specs compliment each other perfectly and enforce each other's position in the meta. Your post reeks of cluelessness about the subject matter. One provides alacrity and the other quickness, they are not competing over anything for support. 

 

I'm not talking anything about what they provide or what they don't. I'm talking specifically on VALUE they provide. Originally, engineer class got no value in groups as the usual comps. 

[Asum.4960]

22 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Bear in mind that Mechanist is not the #1 performer. Hell, it is not in the top 10, either. What carries it in popularity is ease of use, not absolute impact in some optimized comp. 

Going by what, SC Benchmarks because it is for example 9 theoretical golem DPS behind Virtuoso, and counting 4 variations of SLB builds? That's a pretty arbitrary point at best and dishonest/bad faith at worst.

Overall it's pretty much the second highest DPS in the game, along with other pretty much equally golem benching builds, and just behind incredibly niche and or extremely high skill/effort picks like Untamed, Bladesworn and Deadeye - and even those it will outperform in the hands of 99.99% of players in almost all real encounters. 

 

Ease of use and DPS uptime are very much so performance factors in real fights, not just player QoL. 

You can't just look at specs doing a little bit DPS more on the golem and deem them better performers when they take exponentially more skill to execute (aka, since humans aren't perfect machines - esp. over extended time, a DPS loss) and lose tens to hundreds of thousand total damage every time a boss moves or does some mechanic to avoid due to having to interrupt rotations or being flat out forced out of range, where Mech loses nothing. 

 

There is no question about it being an absolute top performer, and the top performer in the hands of the absolute vast majority of players, groups and encounters. 

If there is no agreement on that, there isn't really a discussion.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Kuma.1503]

15 hours ago, Emberheart.8426 said:

Yes, so toolbelt is so valuable that you need to have by far the best pet in the game and overloaded utility skills. This toolbelt excuse has gotten completely out of hand. It's quite clear that the mech by itself is overcompensating as it is. Using the excuse for the signet skills as well is tone deaf.

Holosmith only gives up 1 tool belt skill and gets the entire photon forge, and yet is still performing quite a bit worse than mech overall.

Holo is just undertuned. It barely outperforms core engi or Scrapper at the moment, and the later has always been balanced with a lower benchmark to compensate for how durable it is. 

Mech is overturned, and should have its DPS reduced to where Holo currently is DPS wise. That will balance it with the other reliable ranged specs like virtuoso and scourge. 

However, comparing it to other pet classes isn't a fair comparison because they give up more than just toolbelt (which IS a big trade-off but is overshadowed by its bloated numbers). the Mechanist traitline devotes 90% of its power to the pet and not the player.  Signets are strong, but weakening every other core skill still comes at a cost to build variety and overall utility. 

To get a feel for how much Mech gives up for their bot, try playing a mechanist with the  5 broken signets and the mech perma stowed. Compare the experience to core or any of the other elite specs to get an idea of how harsh these trade-offs really are. 

Alternatively, locate the nearest body of water and jump in. You'll start wishing you were Holo instead so you could use toolbelts and Forge. Even core will feel preferable. 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The idea that there is 'fair compensation' to other specs because of mechanist is absurd. There is GOOD reason to have a variety of performance and complexity between all the specs because SOME people want different things to play how they want. Let's hope Anet doesn't forget that the BEST business approach for them with GW2 is to continue to appeal to a wide range of players with different desires and capabilities. 

If Anet homogenizes the spec options ... so to will they homogenize (and reduce) the playerbase. That's not good for ANY MMO. That's why lots of MMO's FAIL. 

Of course it is absurd.  Other professions currently don't have fair compensation, as I have outlined above.  Also, professions and their elite specs deserve to be fairly compensated for their difficulties with or without the existence of Mechanist.  Cosmic Justice didn't start with EoD, after all.  Finally, if there is nothing wrong with mechanist invalidating other professions because of its high damage + ease of use combination, then there's nothing wrong with other professions being invalidated by super high damage + difficult use.  People can play how they want, regardless if Ele does 46k DPS or not, so why not make Ele do 46k DPS?  At least then players can play what they want, and also be fairly compensated for their difficulties at the exact same time.  Clearly it is superior to what we have now.  

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Of course it is absurd.  Other professions currently don't have fair compensation, as I have outlined above.  Also, professions and their elite specs deserve to be fairly compensated for their difficulties with or without the existence of Mechanist.  Cosmic Justice didn't start with EoD, after all.  Finally, if there is nothing wrong with mechanist invalidating other professions because of its high damage + ease of use combination, then there's nothing wrong with other professions being invalidated by super high damage + difficult use.  People can play how they want, regardless if Ele does 46k DPS or not, so why not make Ele do 46k DPS?  At least then players can play what they want, and also be fairly compensated for their difficulties at the exact same time.  Clearly it is superior to what we have now.  

Except mechanist doesn't invalidate it. Those other specs are still available for people to play how they want and still be successful doing it.  

Edited September 14, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except mechanist doesn't invalidate it. Those other specs are still available for people to play how they want and still be successful doing it.  

 

10 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 People can play how they want, regardless if Ele does 46k DPS or not, so why not make Ele do 46k DPS?  At least then players can play what they want, and also be fairly compensated for their difficulties at the exact same time.  Clearly it is superior to what we have now.