Something has to be done about living world season costs

[Eraser.9860]

Hi, 

I have been playing since 2012 and I had a few friends who started with steam and are really enjoying the game. We have gone through all base content and all season 1 episodes that are available. 

They wanted to go ahead and move to season 2 while we wait for more episodes for season 1 but were really discouraged to find they had to pay an extra $20 for season 2. They had already bought HOT and POF and were really disappointed. They eventually decided not to purchase. Something really needs to be done about the cost of the living world seasons. I personally think they're too costly and turning people away from the game. Thoughts?

[Labjax.2465]

I agree, but anet seems to think it's not very important (then again, there are a lot of things that seem not very important because they don't appear to be doing anything about them, so maybe it's just too few people trying to pay attention to too many things, idk). They did a bundle for steam at the last minute after a huge amount of posts about the issue (here and on reddit) on an ongoing basis, but afaik, it's not much of a discount if it is one at all, it's just a large price tag to buy it all at once.

[casualkenny.9817]

They should consider a fixed and specified timer where content is released free after X years. As the seasons accumulate, the effective startup cost for potential new players would balloon to the aversion stage, even as the need for new customers to replenish departed or established vets also grows.

 

edit1: Either that, or an automatic reduction to half price.

edit2: or even a gems % rebate when bought from webstore (as opposed to via currency exchange)

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by casualkenny.9817

[Crono.4197]

I paid 60 euros for base game, 50 euros for HoT, 30 euros for PoF and 30 for EoD. Total: 170 euros

Yet you don't see me whining on the forum about it. Base game is now free, expansions are super cheap.

I think paying for Living Story is fair and if you don't wanna pay real money, then convert gold to gems.

Either use your time to do everything in-game or use money to buy them. What's next, wanting for the whole game to be free?

If they decided not to buy, no worries, it means they didn't like the game enough. Same people that don't wanna invest in Guild Wars 2 because something is "too expensive" would pay 500 euros for X game from their favorite Y company.

One last idea: they could buy Season 2 and 3 and while they play those, also do side events, metas etc and get money for Season 4 and 5. But it seems this won't work as they're either not too interested in the game or they're in a rush (which I don't really understand) to go at lightning speed through all the content. Enjoy the game. Explore. Do all the events/metas/content. I'm pretty sure they have enough stuff to do in the main content while they would gather gold for the Living Story.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Crono.4197

[Mortime.1359]

I don't even want to know how much I've paid for WoW over the 16 years that I've played it. All the expansions + montly sub + occasional race and faction changes. GW2 is seriously cheap if you don't get the urge to buy every single cosmetic put into the TP.

[RadiantWolf.2058]

GW2 is a still a good deal over time compared to subscription games but I agree the Living World seasons need to have their monetization checked again.

 

I think old seasons becoming half off over time is reasonable. Ones that are many years old.

 

And the most expensive season, Season 2, really should be free. I know it's the longest and has a lot of story but it's all story. There aren't any new maps or anything in S2. If not free it should at least be like... $5 or something.

[yoni.7015]

4 hours ago, Eraser.9860 said:

Hi, 

I have been playing since 2012 and I had a few friends who started with steam and are really enjoying the game. We have gone through all base content and all season 1 episodes that are available. 

They wanted to go ahead and move to season 2 while we wait for more episodes for season 1 but were really discouraged to find they had to pay an extra $20 for season 2. They had already bought HOT and POF and were really disappointed. They eventually decided not to purchase. Something really needs to be done about the cost of the living world seasons. I personally think they're too costly and turning people away from the game. Thoughts?

20€ or 20$ is not much money and you can convert gold to gems to buy living world seasons. I don’t see a reason to change anything.

Edited September 9, 2022 by yoni.7015

[RadiantWolf.2058]

10 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

20€ or 20$ is not much money and you can convert gold to gems to buy living world seasons. I don’t see a reason to change anything. 

The reason is because it's a barrier to entry.

 

I'm glad ANet are now more open about LW being a thing that costs extra, that is definitely a step. But I don't think analyzing the price again is unreasonable.

 

I know people on these forums get salty any time you talk about lowering the price on things or making things available through game play but Living World makes up like what at least half the plot of the game? And they're GOOD stories. But that extra price tag looming over new players is a lot. I was put off coming back for nearly a decade. I did come back, but Living World blocked any of my friends from joining me (why bother paying for content when they could just stay gone and play things they're already invested in?). And it's turning away new players on Steam.

 

To put it simply... The price tag is a turn off if you are new and still working your way through the game, still not entirely invested. And churned players don't use the gem shop. It's better to hook them and keep them around.

 

Season 2 being free would at least get players up to the beginning of Heart of Thorns, it's a good cliff hanger.

 

I think it would be fair for:
 

Season 1 & 2 : Free, creating the bridge into Heart of Thorns (which is paid for)

Season 3: Reduced price

Season 3 & Icebrood Saga: Full price

 

And once the next expansion drops, Season 3 and IB price drop, but nothing other than the bridge to Heart of Thorns is free.  This would help prevent the price tag of all seasons together becoming too astronomically bloated for future new players.

Edited September 9, 2022 by RadiantWolf.2058

[yoni.7015]

14 minutes ago, RadiantWolf.2058 said:

The reason is because it's a barrier to entry.

 

I'm glad ANet are now more open about LW being a thing that costs extra, that is definitely a step. But I don't think analyzing the price again is unreasonable.

 

I know people on these forums get salty any time you talk about lowering the price on things or making things available through game play but Living World makes up like what at least half the plot of the game? And they're GOOD stories. But that extra price tag looming over new players is a lot. I was put off coming back for nearly a decade. I did come back, but Living World blocked any of my friends from joining me (why bother paying for content when they could just stay gone and play things they're already invested in?). And it's turning away new players on Steam.

 

To put it simply... The price tag is a turn off if you are new and still working your way through the game, still not entirely invested. And churned players don't use the gem shop. It's better to hook them and keep them around.

 

Season 2 being free would at least get players up to the beginning of Heart of Thorns, it's a good cliff hanger.

Again, spending 20€ is not really a barrier if you like the game. I always compare it to going to the cinema. Not everything has to be cheap or for free, and 20€ is not expensive. 
But if you don’t want to spend it then you don’t have to. You can convert gold to gems or skip season 2.

Edited September 9, 2022 by yoni.7015

[RadiantWolf.2058]

It's not a barrier if you like the game, but I am talking about the experience of players who aren't sure they like it yet and will just drop once they hit Season 2.

 

I'm not saying all LW needs to be free forever or anything, I just think it is a bad look for a new player experience. And churned players don't spend. Happy players spend!

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, RadiantWolf.2058 said:

It's not a barrier if you like the game, but I am talking about the experience of players who aren't sure they like it yet and will just drop once they hit Season 2.

 

I'm not saying all LW needs to be free forever or anything, I just think it is a bad look for a new player experience. And churned players don't spend. Happy players spend!

When are new players sure they like the game? I mean they played the core game already, leveled to 80 and played season 1 before they get to season 2. At that point I knew I like the game. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by yoni.7015

[casualkenny.9817]

7 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Again, spending 20€ is not really a barrier if you like the game. I always compare it to going to the cinema. Not everything has to be cheap or for free, and 20€ is not expensive. 
But if you don’t want to spend it then you don’t have to. You can 

 

It is a barrier for someone wondering if he should give a game a try. 

 

 

49 minutes ago, Crono.4197 said:

I paid 60 euros for base game, 50 euros for HoT, 30 euros for PoF and 30 for EoD. Total: 170 euros

Yet you don't seem e whining on the forum about it. Base game is now free, expansions are super cheap.

I think paying for Living Story is fair and if you don't wanna pay real money, then convert gold to gems.

Either use your time to do everything in-game or use money to buy them. What's next, wanting for the whole game to be free?

If they decided not to buy, no worries, it means they didn't like the game enough. Same people that don't wanna invest in Guild Wars 2 because something is "too expensive" would pay 500 euros for X game from their favorite Y company.

One last idea: they could buy Season 2 and 3 and while they play those, also do side events, metas etc and get money for Season 4 and 5. But it seems this won't work as they're either not too interested in the game or they're in a rush (which I don't really understand) to go at lightning speed through all the content. Enjoy the game. Explore. Do all the events/metas/content. I'm pretty sure they have enough stuff to do in the main content while they would gather gold for the Living Story.

 

Like, the TS played since 2012, and I entered during HoT. I bought lws for my accounts. Radiant I'm not sure since it's not on his profile. But we aren't asking this for ourselves.

[RadiantWolf.2058]

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

When are new players sure they like the game? I mean they played the core game already, leveled to 80 and played season 2 before they get to season 2. At that point I knew I like the game. 

 

Honest answer from me as a returning player? I knew I liked the moment to moment gameplay and was having fun but the story wasn't doing much for me and I do like a good story to frame my experience. When I finally bought and played through S2 the gameplay was kinda meh but the story was fun and it introduced some super important things like The Egg (tm). And by the end of S2 I was hooked, especially since I was a Sylvari and had to know what was in their future.

 

S1 and S2 really set up the characters and plot elements that will become the core of the narrative for most of the rest of the game.

[casualkenny.9817]

4 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

When are new players sure they like the game? I mean they played the core game already, leveled to 80 and played season 2 before they get to season 2. At that point I knew I like the game. 

The point is, someone considering whether to give a (10 yrs old) game a try is gonna take this startup cost into heavy consideration. They may not even give the core game much of a try, if at all. 

 

I tried gw2 because it appeared in a search for casual mmos many years ago. If Google results had said that I needed to also pay 200gems x (number of episodes, 28 and counting) as well if I came to like the game, I'd just snicker and close the download page. Gems conversion options wouldn't even enter into the picture.

 

 

[Labjax.2465]

31 minutes ago, Crono.4197 said:

I paid 60 euros for base game, 50 euros for HoT, 30 euros for PoF and 30 for EoD. Total: 170 euros

Yet you don't seem e whining on the forum about it. Base game is now free, expansions are super cheap.

I think paying for Living Story is fair and if you don't wanna pay real money, then convert gold to gems.

Either use your time to do everything in-game or use money to buy them. What's next, wanting for the whole game to be free?

If they decided not to buy, no worries, it means they didn't like the game enough. Same people that don't wanna invest in Guild Wars 2 because something is "too expensive" would pay 500 euros for X game from their favorite Y company.

One last idea: they could buy Season 2 and 3 and while they play those, also do side events, metas etc and get money for Season 4 and 5. But it seems this won't work as they're either not too interested in the game or they're in a rush (which I don't really understand) to go at lightning speed through all the content. Enjoy the game. Explore. Do all the events/metas/content. I'm pretty sure they have enough stuff to do in the main content while they would gather gold for the Living Story.

Paying incrementally as new content comes out and deciding each time whether to continue paying into a game is completely different from: thinking you bought the whole game and then hitting a content paywall, or seeing the price of the whole package and realizing you could buy like, idk, 3-5 different games on a decent sale with much better odds for finding something that's really going to wow you.

It's got little to do with how much it is worth in the abstract based on the arguments of a veteran player and is mostly to do with the psychology of it.

[casualkenny.9817]

5 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Paying incrementally as new content comes out and deciding each time whether to continue paying into a game is completely different from: thinking you bought the whole game and then hitting a content paywall, or seeing the price of the whole package and realizing you could buy like, idk, 3-5 different games on a decent sale with much better odds for finding something that's really going to wow you.

It's got little to do with how much it is worth in the abstract based on the arguments of a veteran player and is mostly to do with the psychology of it.

 

That was beautifully phrased and captures the heart of the problem 

[Dayra.7405]

5 hours ago, Eraser.9860 said:

They wanted to go ahead and move to season 2 while we wait for more episodes for season 1 but were really discouraged to find they had to pay an extra $20 for season 2.

If that is to much cash for you, how about earning it ingame, it's less than 47/58g per episode (currently 200 gems are 58g, if you buy whole chapter is only 160 gems per episode). That's just 5-6 days of e.g. Daily (2g), Teq (1g), Dragonstorm (2g+2g Aurene's memories), T1 Fractal-dailies (3-4g).

PS: Season 2 is only for Story & Achievemt Fans, the maps are free for all, but Season 3, 4 & 5 have additional Maps as well, 4 even 2 mounts.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Dayra.7405

[Eraser.9860]

4 hours ago, Dayra.7405 said:

If that is to much cash for you, how about earning it ingame, it's less than 47/58g per episode (currently 200 gems are 58g, if you buy whole chapter is only 160 gems per episode). That's just 5-6 days of e.g. Daily (2g), Teq (1g), Dragonstorm (2g+2g Aurene's memories), T1 Fractal-dailies (3-4g).

PS: Season 2 is only for Story & Achievemt Fans, the maps are free for all, but Season 3, 4 & 5 have additional Maps as well, 4 even 2 mounts.

 

Not for me, but for a 18 year old college girl who is going to school full time and only working a hand full of hours a week in work study, it is.

Not everyone's situation is like yours or everyone can afford it easily. As I mentioned, she did buy all 3 expansions already and just can't afford the extra money at the moment.  Not to mention buy all the seasons coming up. I'll end up buying them for her but it is really frustrating that they give the content free to people who played during that time but not to others who weren't around, so it's really not purchasable DLC. More of a way to make you play or be penalized for not playing and make you pay for the seasons for not playing. I know for me, I have spent so much money on cosmetics and other things that paying for living world seasons wouldn't even matter. They're making a killing off the gem store.

 

So remember, just because $20 bucks for season 2, and more for seasons 3 and 4 aren't expensive for you.....for others it may be at this time.

 

Sorry Dayra.7405, that wasn't directed toward you as I agree with your comment. Working for it is one way to pay for the content. Thank you for that.

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Eraser.9860

[Dayra.7405]

7 minutes ago, Eraser.9860 said:

So remember, just because $20 bucks for season 2, and more for seasons 3 and 4 aren't expensive for you.....for others it may be at this time.

You somehow missed my point: I said you can get it by playing.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Dayra.7405

[Eraser.9860]

15 minutes ago, Dayra.7405 said:

You somehow missed my point: I said you can get it by playing.

Yeah, that's why I said at the very end; the comment wasnt directed towards you. My apologies as it was supposed to be directed toward other comments asking why they couldn't afford it. Sorry 😞

Edited September 9, 2022 by Eraser.9860

[Fueki.4753]

I think the price is fine. It's far better than the subscription money one has to pay for WoW and FF14.

Once you have the episodes, you have access to them forever (unless you lose the account or the game shuts down).

Edited September 9, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Farohna.6247]

8 hours ago, Mortime.1359 said:

I don't even want to know how much I've paid for WoW over the 16 years that I've played it. All the expansions + montly sub + occasional race and faction changes. GW2 is seriously cheap if you don't get the urge to buy every single cosmetic put into the TP.

Same here....over a decade of playing it at $15 a month....yeh GW2 had been cheap lol.  While I paid for seasons two and three, the rest were free.  I would ask how many players spend $20 a week on soda, chips, coffee, or non essential items, yet are unwilling to pay that for potential years of entertainment.  

And absolutely there are moments where that's a lot of money for a luxury item. But I feel like mostly it's people wanting things for free (oh wait, sometimes it is).  Next time someone asks what you want for your birthday or a holiday...

Edited September 9, 2022 by Farohna.6247

[Jukhy.2431]

Living World Season 2 Complete Pack is also listed in the web store: https://buy.guildwars2.com/en-gb#ingame_items
For me the price shown there is 16€.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

8 hours ago, casualkenny.9817 said:

It is a barrier for someone wondering if he should give a game a try. 

The base game is still free. New players go through the personal story, not Living World.

[RadiantWolf.2058]

7 hours ago, Dayra.7405 said:

If that is to much cash for you, how about earning it ingame, it's less than 47/58g per episode (currently 200 gems are 58g, if you buy whole chapter is only 160 gems per episode). That's just 5-6 days of e.g. Daily (2g), Teq (1g), Dragonstorm (2g+2g Aurene's memories), T1 Fractal-dailies (3-4g).

PS: Season 2 is only for Story & Achievemt Fans, the maps are free for all, but Season 3, 4 & 5 have additional Maps as well, 4 even 2 mounts.

Here's the problem with that as I see it.

 

These are activities you can do to earn gold as an already existing player with lots of content unlocked. If you are new and have no Living World chapters you are probably having a typical new player experience of playing through the main scenario to get a sense of gameplay and feel a connection to the setting and your character. This means you are not going to be able to farm gold using these methods. You are definitely not going to be able to farm gold to buy Living World seasons by playing Dragonstorm which requires access to Living World (specifically Icebrood Saga).  You can argue for prioritizing Icebrood Saga but that would mean asking a player to do a LOT of skipping around the story which isn't great as a first time experience.