So is scrapper going to get super buffed when they run circles in their wells?

[Stalima.5490]

Because that super speed with stationary wells is gonna be so so useful...

[Kodama.6453]

This is so infuriating. We get SUPERSPEED from wells, why you now want to make them stationary suddenly so we have to stay on them to get the full benefit of the skill?

Sorry, but any half way logically thinking creature could have figured out that this is contradictory. Has Anet replaced their devs with squirrels or something?

[Noah Salazar.5430]

it's buff for pve(nerf to speedruning it), but nerf for pvp/wvw 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Noah Salazar.5430

[felix.2386]

5 minutes ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

it's buff for pve(nerf to speedruning it), but nerf for pvp/wvw 

 

it's also a buff for pvp

it is only bad for wvw lol

[Noah Salazar.5430]

 

5 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

it's also a buff for pvp

it is only bad for wvw lol

no it's not your loosing quickness

[felix.2386]

1 minute ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

 

no

based on what? your below bot tier gold 2 level pvp experience?

i've played every single class to plat2 and my experience says other wise.

it will help not only rifle scrapper but also hammer scrapper, given how pvp is played,

unless you running glass meme build that blow all the gyro and run straight to enemy brainlessly as a suicide bomber.

 

you seem to like to mention both pvp and wvw in the same sentence, but it seems like all you know is wvw, and don't really understand pvp. so don't try to link these two modes together in your every statement as they are not the same.

[Stalima.5490]

10 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

based on what? your below bot tier gold 2 level pvp experience?

i've played every single class to plat2 and my experience says other wise.

it will help not only rifle scrapper but also hammer scrapper, given how pvp is played,

unless you running glass meme build that blow all the gyro and run straight to enemy brainlessly as a suicide bomber.

 

you seem to like to mention both pvp and wvw in the same sentence, but it seems like all you know is wvw, and don't really understand pvp. so don't try to link these two modes together in your every statement as they are not the same.

You are forgetting that unlike scourge for example, your wells do not do much in the way of damage, the shredder being outright inferior to the damage potential there, simply take a dragon hunter or scourge and you have a vastly superior zone control by far.

and it gets worse because you need to actually stand in your wells which will only grant small amounts of quickness if chrono rune is taken, so if you attempt to utilise your purge or bulwark gyro, you are likely going to die increadibly quickly due to aoe clustering on top of them the only pro here is you don't absoloutely require the superspeed on wells to get quickness, but remember the superspeed trait gives 120 range on wells so... you will have pitifully low radius wells that people will take 2 steps to get out of if you opt out of it.

The only advantage this change truly has is if you manage to specifically chain a blast gyro and a net shot at the kind of range where net shot usually fires off into the abyss and the enemy does not remove the net.

Furthermore, if you attempt to go into stealth you will simply have your gyro cleaved or else just lose the stealth after 1 second if you leave it.

 

My point here is any advantage you gain from these changes is far outweighed by the negatives that will occur from it, keep in mind scrapper usually needs to have its purge gyro or bulwark up when focusing down enemies to avoid being utterly destroyed which will not be available if your well is left 2 miles behind you as they run away on any placement.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the rifle and these changes seem focused upon making it work out but you need to also remember the hammer is the scrappers native weapon and if that does not work to a reasonable degree then the spec will be considered kinda broken, that is the worry that many people have here.

[Jopettaja.7451]

17 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

based on what? your below bot tier gold 2 level pvp experience?

i've played every single class to plat2 and my experience says other wise.

it will help not only rifle scrapper but also hammer scrapper, given how pvp is played,

unless you running glass meme build that blow all the gyro and run straight to enemy brainlessly as a suicide bomber.

 

you seem to like to mention both pvp and wvw in the same sentence, but it seems like all you know is wvw, and don't really understand pvp. so don't try to link these two modes together in your every statement as they are not the same.

 

Quite a hostile answer especially when he said based on what, you just cut it off from your quote, he said "no it's not your loosing quickness" as the reason why it is a nerf in both WvW and PvP, not because you cast wells far and wont stand in them, but because you are literally losing the ability to provide quickness with gyros from your traits "Kinetic Accelerators: This trait no longer grants quickness in PvP and WvW. Instead, it grants might and fury."

[Jski.6180]

Its good responsive super speed support where you can land a skill at a range to speed up ppl you want to speed up at any given time. It will make the effect weaker for that group of ppl o the pulsing well effect but you still should get good effects over all if you place it right like all the OTHER pAoE (something scraper players seem to forget that every other class has to deal with that for most pulsing effects).

The quickness lost is kind of lame but it was already on the way out with its duration nerfs it had been getting in the wvw environment. Better to think of scraper as an superspeed support with fields and the stander kit support effects that all eng can have. I allways found it an odd chose of anet to tie quickness to super speed for scraper it should of been more of an gyro or hard cc (the point of the class of being an hard cc/burizer the support was more from kits and happen staces of gyro being able to some what support but where more self support aimed.)

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

It will make the effect weaker for that group of ppl o the pulsing well effect but you still should get good effects over all if you place it right like all the OTHER pAoE (something scraper players seem to forget that every other class has to deal with that for most pulsing effects).

Then they should at least buff the effects of the gyros, since they are made weaker than other wells to balance the utility of being mobile.

Some examples:

Purge Gyro VS Well of Power

Purge Gyro cleanses 5 conditions on allies over 5 seconds and is a light combo field. That's it.

Well of Power converts 6 conditions on allies to boons over 5 seconds, is a dark combo field, is a stunbreak, grants 1 second of stability and grants allies up to 6 stacks of might over it's duration.

Shredder Gyro VS Well of Suffering

Shredder Gyro deals power damage with a total coefficient of 4,8 over it's entire duration of 6 seconds, therefore dealing a power coefficient of 0,8 per hit and is a whirl finisher.

Well of Suffering deals power damage with a total coefficient of 6,0 over it's entire duration of 6 seconds, hitting with a coefficient of 1,0 per second and is a dark combo field. Also it applies 2 stacks of vulnerability on foes with every tick. It is also unblockable.

[Kuma.1503]

11 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Then they should at least buff the effects of the gyros, since they are made weaker than other wells to balance the utility of being mobile.

Some examples:

Purge Gyro VS Well of Power

Purge Gyro cleanses 5 conditions on allies over 5 seconds and is a light combo field. That's it.

Well of Power converts 6 conditions on allies to boons over 5 seconds, is a dark combo field, is a stunbreak, grants 1 second of stability and grants allies up to 6 stacks of might over it's duration.

Shredder Gyro VS Well of Suffering

Shredder Gyro deals power damage with a total coefficient of 4,8 over it's entire duration of 6 seconds, therefore dealing a power coefficient of 0,8 per hit and is a whirl finisher.

Well of Suffering deals power damage with a total coefficient of 6,0 over it's entire duration of 6 seconds, hitting with a coefficient of 1,0 per second and is a dark combo field. Also it applies 2 stacks of vulnerability on foes with every tick. It is also unblockable.

And bulwark gyro does nothing but commit sudoku if you cast it at range. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Kodama.6453]

2 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

And bulwark gyro does nothing but commit sudoku if you cast it at range. 

If they go through with this change, then they should make Bulwark Gyro just apply barrier to allies in it, without these "damage redirected to the scrapper" stuff.

But knowing Anet, they won't do that.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[Noah Salazar.5430]

21 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

based on what? your below bot tier gold 2 level pvp experience?

i've played every single class to plat2 and my experience says other wise.

it will help not only rifle scrapper but also hammer scrapper, given how pvp is played,

unless you running glass meme build that blow all the gyro and run straight to enemy brainlessly as a suicide bomber.

 

you seem to like to mention both pvp and wvw in the same sentence, but it seems like all you know is wvw, and don't really understand pvp. so don't try to link these two modes together in your every statement as they are not the same.

Like i mentioned your loosing quickness, and as compensation your geting might+fury

fury you got 50% up duration from firearms and rest from alchemy potions or 99.9% from explosives

Also Quickness was aoe, here your just overwriting fury, and might your geting anyway from potions,might gyro and traits

 

If be your staitment your looking only for superspeed, then yes it's a buff as your can put it from range on allys

but i answered for question of topic, not for superspeed alone

 

Also answering my rank was 1550-1650 when i played as solo que, rifle+flamethrower, runes of holebreak+demolisher as roamer/bruiser 58-60% win ratio

at 1600 rank it was harder to progress alone as you fighted against premade group while geting random ppl

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Jski.6180]

10 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Then they should at least buff the effects of the gyros, since they are made weaker than other wells to balance the utility of being mobile.

Some examples:

Purge Gyro VS Well of Power

Purge Gyro cleanses 5 conditions on allies over 5 seconds and is a light combo field. That's it.

Well of Power converts 6 conditions on allies to boons over 5 seconds, is a dark combo field, is a stunbreak, grants 1 second of stability and grants allies up to 6 stacks of might over it's duration.

Shredder Gyro VS Well of Suffering

Shredder Gyro deals power damage with a total coefficient of 4,8 over it's entire duration of 6 seconds, therefore dealing a power coefficient of 0,8 per hit and is a whirl finisher.

Well of Suffering deals power damage with a total coefficient of 6,0 over it's entire duration of 6 seconds, hitting with a coefficient of 1,0 per second and is a dark combo field. Also it applies 2 stacks of vulnerability on foes with every tick. It is also unblockable.

Don't they have different cds? Most ppl would want an burst effect like purging flame clear of 3 condis with an after effect.

Shredder is an combo finnisher ontop of and if i am reading it right shredder is 4.8 and suffering is only 3.9 in wvw (though not info on if shredder is different in wvw.)

The issues here is that the scraper player base wants to keep there fields and have powerful effects. Some times there has to be a give and take. In a way anet is removing the ability to get more use out of the wells being able to move the wells by them saying on you no longer being a thing but your keeping the field effect and the over time effect with out losing the low cd.

[Tanek.5983]

I know I'm late to the party on this one, but what the heck is going on? I thought the whole point of the gyros for Scrapper was mobility. It was one of the things that made me really start to enjoy the Engineer. It has been this way for 7 years and all of a sudden they decide to redesign a core feature of the specialization?

How does this even work? For the sneak gyro, you can stealth, but only in one spot. For the shredder and blasy gyros, just convince the enemy you are fighting to stand still because you aren't allowed to move around anymore.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but this changes the whole playstyle. This isn't balance, this is a different elite spec altogether.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Tanek.5983

[Alcatraznc.3869]

20 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

The issues here is that the scraper player base wants to keep there fields and have powerful effects.

 

What powerfull effect ? Gyro effect are only good because you actually get to enjoy the full benefit. What people want is Anet using their brain and not kill what makes Gyro different than normal well. 

 

Alternatively, if Anet is dead set on keeping gyro stationnary then at some point they will buff them because they are underwhelming compared to other well available in game. The small gyro vs necro well post above is a good summary. And once it will get buffed, you and other will come back there to complain and ask for a return to their former state.

 

 

[Sindust.7059]

Sneak gyro is the most stupid one to change. Because the stealth duration is added over 6 seconds, you are wasting 6 seconds of otherwise useful stealth duration, and because super speed is now pulsing on the first tick, means that the super speed boon from the sneak gyro will run out by the time you got your sneak and are ready to move.

 

The change from the last pulse to first makes sense with other gyros, because that makes it easier to apply it while running, but with sneak gyro it's just completely backwards.

 

But then again, I'm actually looking forward to having a ranged scrapper dps build for pve... Too bad I won't be able to use stealth to skip stuff with that change, but with the mechanist nerfs rifle scrapper might be competitive. 🤣

[Jski.6180]

3 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

What powerfull effect ? Gyro effect are only good because you actually get to enjoy the full benefit. What people want is Anet using their brain and not kill what makes Gyro different than normal well. 

 

Alternatively, if Anet is dead set on keeping gyro stationnary then at some point they will buff them because they are underwhelming compared to other well available in game. The small gyro vs necro well post above is a good summary. And once it will get buffed, you and other will come back there to complain and ask for a return to their former state.

 

 

Having an usefully field and an pulsing effect is very powerfully. Sadly necro fields are mostly dark fields for a class that has very few combos finnshers. Maybe if the necro had say an water field smoke field even an lighting field (only realty useful for the dazes) but even then necro dose not realty have the blast combo to get the full effect out of though fields for support sadly.

I am all for making them "unkillable" pets agen that have an destroy for a stronger effect as all temp pets should have. But to suggest pAoE skill are "dead" in the wvw environment is forgetting years of what every other class in the game had to deal with. Its out right silly to forget years of balancing for pAoE and there use in wvw.

[shion.2084]

On 9/24/2022 at 7:15 PM, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

What powerfull effect ? Gyro effect are only good because you actually get to enjoy the full benefit. What people want is Anet using their brain and not kill what makes Gyro different than normal well. 

 

Alternatively, if Anet is dead set on keeping gyro stationnary then at some point they will buff them because they are underwhelming compared to other well available in game. The small gyro vs necro well post above is a good summary. And once it will get buffed, you and other will come back there to complain and ask for a return to their former state.

 

 

I’m sure they’ll bring them back to usefulness right after they get to addressing turrets being nerfed into non-existence 

[shion.2084]

Anyway at this point I am literally testing out a scrapper with no gyros.  Elix B, elix gun, elix U and mortar.  Yup that’s what it’s come to