How bout' dem Banners?

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

What do you like about what used to be shackled to our pve brethren? The old accursed banners haunting utility slots since the dawn of gw2. They have been changed and time has passed.

Have they hit the mark with the changes? Are they close? Or are they way off?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Strength and Discipline still need work. A rune does their pulsed effects better. All the banners need 900 range.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

• Banners need 900 range.
• Double Standards need to be in Tactics.
• Discipline and Strenght needs to pulse Swiftness

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

They need rebalancing. I see two main issues.

• Banner of Strength is useless.
  Nobody needs 2 might application every 3 seconds. We need to stack might hard and fast.
   
• Doubled Standards is killing build diversity.
  The quickness component is too powerful. This kills off alternatives (warhorn offhand, tactics grandmaster trait), which were likely gutted to ground because there's so much coming from this trait alone.
   

To that end here are the changes i propose:

• Doubled Standards now add some big fat might instead of quickness when dropping a banner. Like 8 stacks for 15s baseline
   
• Banner of Tactics has it's boons swapped. Resistance on drop, Quickness pulses (2s base).
   
• Both warhorn 4 and Martial Cadence trait get better base quickness duration (3s for warhorn, 4 or 5 for trait)

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Grand Marshal.4098]

17 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

 

• Banner of Strength is useless.
  Nobody needs 2 might application every 3 seconds. We need to stack might hard and fast.
   

Axctualy 🤓
 

I don't mind using Banner of Strength with my Core Phalanx Zerg build since it can provide a ranged healing option and a quick rupt with the initial daze.

With just Runes of Strength and Phalanx, dropping the banner where many allies will pass can provide some decent self-healing from afar. 

Edit: Still would like to see something else. If no other effects or boons, just increase the might stacks and/or the duration.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Grand Marshal.4098

[felix.2386]

anything but tactic are pointless at this point.

new changes with the traits does not free warrior from pigeonholed utilities.

they need to change the weapons, so we can actually have choice with the utility slots.

the banners are ok, but warrior utilities are pigeonholed into shouts, endure pain and bullcharge.

banner of tactic is playable for healbreaker, because all healbreaker need is sustain and it's weapon set actually bring enough of those on top of full counter, so allows healbreaker to have choice for it's utility for one slot.

Edited September 26, 2022 by felix.2386

[Jzaku.9765]

The real issue in PVE is that the Banners themselves are irrelevant because you are either:

• playing Quickness Banner Warrior and spamming 2-3x Banners off CD to upkeep quickness meaning you can't time their effects. Regardless of how strong (Tactics, Defense) or weak (Strength, Discipline) they are.
• playing DPS Bladesworn with all 3 of your utility slots AND elite skill hard locked into exactly [Flow Stabilizer] [Dragonspike Mine] [Overcharged Cartridges] [Tactical Reload]

I dream of a future where utility skills dont represent several THOUSAND dps and it's not crippling to drop one for team support without being a full support build. Or a future where you're not hard locked into specific utility skills because your build demands it. Or both. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

The real issue in PVE is that the Banners themselves are irrelevant because you are either:

• playing Quickness Banner Warrior and spamming 2-3x Banners off CD to upkeep quickness meaning you can't time their effects. Regardless of how strong (Tactics, Defense) or weak (Strength, Discipline) they are.
• playing DPS Bladesworn with all 3 of your utility slots AND elite skill hard locked into exactly [Flow Stabilizer] [Dragonspike Mine] [Overcharged Cartridges] [Tactical Reload]

I dream of a future where utility skills dont represent several THOUSAND dps and it's not crippling to drop one for team support without being a full support build. Or a future where you're not hard locked into specific utility skills because your build demands it. Or both. 

I think part of the problem is that they decided to lock the quickness role into banners. Warhorn and Martial Cadence together could have handled that role with appropriate CDs and durations leaving the banner active effects for other forms of support. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I think making the on-drop effects into facet-like flipover skills that may be used act time during the duration would be the best course of action at this point (as had been suggested by numerous posters on this forum).

 

Strength and Discipline banners need some love in addition. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

17 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I think making the on-drop effects into facet-like flipover skills that may be used act time during the duration would be the best course of action at this point (as had been suggested by numerous posters on this forum).

 

Strength and Discipline banners need some love in addition. 

I think the final form of banners should include a flipover that dismisses the banner, which activates their on drop effect again. They also need 900 range to be useful beyond PvE. Being able to immediately dismiss them to proc the summon effect again would make Strength and Discipline decent as damage options. You wouldn't need the trait for quickness, just Tactics banner, and you'd get more mileage out of the defense banner. Obviously Battle Standard doesn't get a dismissal.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I would've immensely preferred them to behave like spirits but they're okay like this.