Veprovina.4876 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) ...and now that Vindicator has infinite dodges in all game modes, can we please get our measly second dodge back? Quote The single dodge that vindicator has access to has been a long-standing point of negative feedback... I mean, it's not like we didn't provide feedback and our explicit negative feelings about our dodge. AND for longer than Vindicator existed... Please and thank you! Edited October 5, 2022 by Veprovina.4876 7 7 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Difference between Mesmer section vs other profession sections: Mesmer: Oh we got nerfed...lets think of ways to trade off that nerf...copium...eh w/e... Other Professions: ITS THE END OF THE WORLD I CANT CONTINUE ON TO LIVE LIKE THIS. 2 4 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loic.9657 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) Lmao They just deliberately choose to forget mirage. No bugs fixed Still the only one use the same professional skill as core in the entire game with only 4 skills although chrono and virtu got 5 now, and only put that shiny visual on the board, pretend that they have make some difference between core and mirage Still bad trait design Still one dodge Edited October 5, 2022 by Loic.9657 5 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted October 5, 2022 Author Share Posted October 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said: Difference between Mesmer section vs other profession sections: Mesmer: Oh we got nerfed...lets think of ways to trade off that nerf...copium...eh w/e... Other Professions: ITS THE END OF THE WORLD I CANT CONTINUE ON TO LIVE LIKE THIS. Pretty much sums it up... When Catalyst got 2% nerf of what we got it was literally the end of the world, everyone was shaking, Reddit and forums were full of posts and memes. Nerf to Null field while it's the weakest boonstrip and the only blockable boonstrip in game: "Hmm, if we get rid of all our profession mechanics, maybe then they'll make null field unblockable, but just in case, let's raise the cooldown to 300s." *Sniff* Smells like copium alright! And honestly i'd be fine with the cooldown increase if they'd just make it unblockable - without nerfing it further, doesn't need more nerfs. 1 hour ago, Loic.9657 said: Lmao They just deliberately choose to forget mirage. No bugs fixed Still the only one use the same professional skill as core in the entire game with only 4 skills although chrono and virtu got 5 now, and only put that shiny visual on the board, pretend that they have make some difference between core and mirage Still bad trait design Still one dodge Well to be fair, they never said they're going to return the dodge now, they said they're thinking about it. And i say, enough thinking, every reason the dodge was gone in the first place was alraedy nerfed, not to mention countless of bugs from clone attacks making us AGAIN have to deal with our profession mechanic not working... Anyway... Return the dodge like you did with vindicator. We voiced our negative feedback longer than vindicator existed, it's time we get our second dodge back. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenesis.6389 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Biggest joke is it's the same dev that worked on both... Vindi gets a second broken dodge 8 months after their release, mirage won't be seeing their second one back at maybe the 3 year mark. I wish anet took balancing more seriously. 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artyport.2084 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 They did say in the live stream they were working on it.. chill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutterRat.1269 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Vindicator is used to sell EoD, Mirage is not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agrippastrilemma.8741 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said: Biggest joke is it's the same dev that worked on both... Vindi gets a second broken dodge 8 months after their release, mirage won't be seeing their second one back at maybe the 3 year mark. I wish anet took balancing more seriously. The dev team used to care about tradeoffs and elite specs being on the same level as core and they spent years working on it, but now they have done a complete 180 on that decision. It's so dumb. Edited October 5, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradorin.6217 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 10 hours ago, Loic.9657 said: Lmao They just deliberately choose to forget mirage. No bugs fixed Still the only one use the same professional skill as core in the entire game with only 4 skills although chrono and virtu got 5 now, and only put that shiny visual on the board, pretend that they have make some difference between core and mirage Still bad trait design Still one dodge agreed. 11 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said: ...and now that Vindicator has infinite dodges in all game modes, can we please get our measly second dodge back? I mean, it's not like we didn't provide feedback and our explicit negative feelings about our dodge. AND for longer than Vindicator existed... Please and thank you! Yep couldnt have said it better myself. 10 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said: Difference between Mesmer section vs other profession sections: Mesmer: Oh we got nerfed...lets think of ways to trade off that nerf...copium...eh w/e... Other Professions: ITS THE END OF THE WORLD I CANT CONTINUE ON TO LIVE LIKE THIS. It would be funny if it wasnt so true! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradorin.6217 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Artyport.2084 said: They did say in the live stream they were working on it.. chill IMO they likely said that in hopes of placating people untill they could get virtuoso and chrono buffed then they probably planned to delay mirage for later to do a redesign. Which then will happen maybe in years, maybe never, and might be trash when its finally done.... Also maybe they assume that after virt has too much sustain we will all just become proj. Virt fans and forget what we wanted which makes me sad. Just not gona get my hopes up, but I think its pretty obvious they have no valid reason to continue to leave Mirage as is or even to claim its not due to just flat out get its dodge back with MC as is and will still need its vigor added back to compete. In WvW Mirage always lacked gap closers compared to Warrior and many others. It lacked the mobility to disengage as easy as thief or the ability to stealth and attempt a gank over and over with high frequency like thief. Although, Mirage has access to jaunt, axe 3/sword1(s1 best), blink and at one time got super speed during dodge. It could never catch a skilled warrior, thief, etc that actually ran unless it could cc them before they leave range. For condi specificly it has always lacked mobility compared to many/most and even compared to power Mir. Its strength in WvW was that even tho u couldnt outrun opponents or keep repeating stealth, diengage, burst like thief/power Mir/Mes, that it has sustain and could wear opponents down. Most of those same opponents could outrun the mesmer to disengage if they choose(in 2 dodge days too). They can also chase down and attack and kill a Condi Mirage who is wanding/roaming too far from a keep and the Mir cant really do much about it accept run and see them close in. Was this what ALWAYS happened in EVERY instance? No! Was/IS all this accurate comparison of Mirage mobility to other classes mobility of the time(s)?? Yes! What is my point? Ever since we lost: the other dodge, 1 jaunt removed, vigor removed, torch damage nerfed, axe damage nerfed, staff + scepter damage nerfed + clone generation cut in half on both scpeter 2 and staff 3, had pistol damage nerfed, had vigor uptime removed, had various stun break cooldowns lengthened, super speed removed from dodge, had various trait lines redesigned to have less build options to generate damage, mobility, sustain. Is that everything? Im sure Im forgetting stuff. But yea Mirage was Very overtuned once LONG ago. It was way over nerfed tho and was never rebalanced at all in wvw after 1 dodge. It was just nerfed more and more until almost everyone just stopped using it even most die hards. Nice work Anet. I know we all are just spoiled brats for complaining. Edited October 5, 2022 by Moradorin.6217 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Artyport.2084 said: They did say in the live stream they were working on it.. chill They said it. They say a lot of things. 2 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted October 5, 2022 Author Share Posted October 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Artyport.2084 said: They did say in the live stream they were working on it.. chill I know, i didn't say they didn't say it, this thread is just kind of a reminder on how - if Vindi can be broken with 2 dodges, Mirage - after all those nerfs, should get a second dodge back just to become uninpressive again, which will be a step up because now it's broken, but in a bad unfun way. So you know... About time we got our second dodge back because we're the ONLY ones now with 1 dodge, split between modes, AND we were never balanced around 1 dodge, Vindicator WAS and it got 2 dodges wihtout much tweaking just because people complained. So i'm again reminding them of the fact that this is colossaly unfair and there is no more reason for mirage to not have 2 dodges. Also, in the future, leave the dodges alone, 2 should be baseline and it's what everyone should have. Never less. Lessons learned. 3 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said: nerfed more and more until almost everyone just stopped using it even most die hards. I have to sadly report that i was in this "camp"... I used it until very recently when i just couldn't anymore. I roam with chrono now, if i burst someone with it, good, if not i die, there's not middleground, but Mirage was so weak that i couldn't even burst someone anymore on full viper's. And that 1 dodge really started to get to me because i use Mirage in strikes, and going to WvW with it has always been janky, but lately i couldn't deal with it anymore. So yeah... This diehard also stopped using mirage in WvW, so you're 100% correct there. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenesis.6389 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 hours ago, msalakka.4653 said: Vindicator is used to sell EoD, Mirage is not. Having the opposite effect on me, watching this clown show balancing to wvw, nerfing the specs I do play, making me want to just quit instead, not reward them by buying the expansion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkpile.7439 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Maybe remove that stupid mirage cloak and give dodge back? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaret.1450 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 15 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said: ...and now that Vindicator has infinite dodges in all game modes, can we please get our measly second dodge back? I mean, it's not like we didn't provide feedback and our explicit negative feelings about our dodge. AND for longer than Vindicator existed... Please and thank you! At least in the stream, they said they were looking for a way to give mirage its second dodge. As for vindi well lots of people complain that it kills class identity, id advise you all to be wary of those people coming here, please suport the 2 evades minimun for vindi and mirage please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaret.1450 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 as for mesmer nerfs, it is mainly in boon removal right? i think it isnt that heavy taking into acount theyre triing to make wvw less boon overflowing if im not mistaken, also mesmer now is better because scrapper and fb nerf, it has more or less as many stabs as fb and is prob the best scuad invi now. Lets wait a bit and see, i think mesmers will see more play in scuads now even with the couple nerfs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted October 5, 2022 Author Share Posted October 5, 2022 31 minutes ago, Junkpile.7439 said: Maybe remove that stupid mirage cloak and give dodge back? OR - since they nerfed everything about mirage alrady, just give the dodge back without "tradeoffs"? I mean, it's not like @Salt Mode.3780 didn't joke about this exact thing in this exact thread lol. And yes, i get that mirage cloak is inferior but without it, how are you gonna do ambushes? Normal dodge always moves, mirage cloak is stationary for a reason. 49 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said: Having the opposite effect on me, watching this clown show balancing to wvw, nerfing the specs I do play, making me want to just quit instead, not reward them by buying the expansion. Yup, especially when every feedback we gave about Virtuoso fell on deaf ears. I seriously considered not buying the expansion, and i still don't use Virtuoso anywhere. So from espec perspective i needn't have bothered. But i did get a shiny aurene legendary out of it so it's fine. 16 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said: At least in the stream, they said they were looking for a way to give mirage its second dodge. As for vindi well lots of people complain that it kills class identity, id advise you all to be wary of those people coming here, please suport the 2 evades minimun for vindi and mirage please. I always said, even when vidnicator was balanced around 1 dodge (and largely still is), that 2 dodges should be baseline and that even balancing an espec around 1 is janky because the game just isn't built that way. So i'm glad they gave vindi 2 dodges. And now it's time for mirage to get ours back. 14 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said: as for mesmer nerfs, it is mainly in boon removal right? i think it isnt that heavy taking into acount theyre triing to make wvw less boon overflowing if im not mistaken, also mesmer now is better because scrapper and fb nerf, it has more or less as many stabs as fb and is prob the best scuad invi now. Lets wait a bit and see, i think mesmers will see more play in scuads now even with the couple nerfs Yeah, that stab mantra is basically now just as good as FB one. I'm just sad we had to AGAIN trade something for it - in this case Null field (that is still blockable and aegis blocks it kitten). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suyheuti.1732 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 15 hours ago, Loic.9657 said: Lmao They just deliberately choose to forget mirage. No bugs fixed Still the only one use the same professional skill as core in the entire game with only 4 skills although chrono and virtu got 5 now, and only put that shiny visual on the board, pretend that they have make some difference between core and mirage Still bad trait design Still one dodge According to those problems, the thing which makes me less furious is one dodge. Ignoring mirage's bugs by devs makes me furious too much. When I see some stupid bug fixes in the patch notes, my furious gets doubled. This should be dev's number1 priority. Bad trait design, yes, totally agreed. We stucked in some traits and there is no alternative. On the other hand, mirage's alacrity should be in traitline, not in staff ambush. Unuseable in underwater combat and I dont want to use double staff to get %100 alacrity. I have been saying this for a long time. And the weird thing is in general condi mesmer, we stucked in 2 signets. Why dont mesmers have any condi utility except 2 signets? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradorin.6217 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Suyheuti.1732 said: According to those problems, the thing which makes me less furious is one dodge. Ignoring mirage's bugs by devs makes me furious too much. When I see some stupid bug fixes in the patch notes, my furious gets doubled. This should be dev's number1 priority. Bad trait design, yes, totally agreed. We stucked in some traits and there is no alternative. On the other hand, mirage's alacrity should be in traitline, not in staff ambush. Unuseable in underwater combat and I dont want to use double staff to get %100 alacrity. I have been saying this for a long time. And the weird thing is in general condi mesmer, we stucked in 2 signets. Why dont mesmers have any condi utility except 2 signets? lol yea I never even get to the point is seems worth it to mention things like Mirage skills still dont work in water yet...Alac which mirage never asked for got linked to a single 2h weapon and needs to do dumb 2 staff setup for reasonably conventient alac application that is way more complicated than most alac dps options. etc agreed 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 (edited) On 10/4/2022 at 7:07 PM, Veprovina.4876 said: I mean, it's not like we didn't provide feedback and our explicit negative feelings about our dodge. AND for longer than Vindicator existed... Please and thank you! I'm upset about this and I'm not even a mesmer main. Edited October 7, 2022 by Kuma.1503 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 59 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said: I'm upset about this and I'm not even a mesmer main. Yeah, it sucks when you give so much time and money into something, and then feel like you're hated for it. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaret.1450 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 On 10/5/2022 at 6:31 PM, Suyheuti.1732 said: According to those problems, the thing which makes me less furious is one dodge. Ignoring mirage's bugs by devs makes me furious too much. When I see some stupid bug fixes in the patch notes, my furious gets doubled. This should be dev's number1 priority. Bad trait design, yes, totally agreed. We stucked in some traits and there is no alternative. On the other hand, mirage's alacrity should be in traitline, not in staff ambush. Unuseable in underwater combat and I dont want to use double staff to get %100 alacrity. I have been saying this for a long time. And the weird thing is in general condi mesmer, we stucked in 2 signets. Why dont mesmers have any condi utility except 2 signets? Think thatbit was messed up big time, one dosge is bad, they saw with mirage and confirmed with vindi, they already said theyre working in a way to give 2 dodges back, but mirage has been longer like that and it will prob give more isues if they did a fast fix like with vindi, theres still people saying vindi is op with too many dodges so imagine mirage, also i agree alac in 1 skill just because is... well, they just made it to give mirage alac, a fast small and nonsensical change, it is like renegade f3 or f4, it makes the whole spec a suport spec because of one skill that has very little to do with anything else i hope they will fix things bit by bit and do it right, better small fixes each month in the right way than those "huge" fixes that later need 3-4 more fix patches to actualy work and solve problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 2 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said: Think thatbit was messed up big time, one dosge is bad, they saw with mirage and confirmed with vindi, they already said theyre working in a way to give 2 dodges back, but mirage has been longer like that and it will prob give more isues if they did a fast fix like with vindi, theres still people saying vindi is op with too many dodges so imagine mirage, also i agree alac in 1 skill just because is... well, they just made it to give mirage alac, a fast small and nonsensical change, it is like renegade f3 or f4, it makes the whole spec a suport spec because of one skill that has very little to do with anything else i hope they will fix things bit by bit and do it right, better small fixes each month in the right way than those "huge" fixes that later need 3-4 more fix patches to actualy work and solve problems. You're forgetting that, unlike Vindicator, they nerfed everything that caused them to take away the dodge in the first place but they never returned the dodge. So there is nothing else to "consider", nothing is "sensitive", nothing will have "issues" - they already took care of that with previous nerfs. They shortened Vindi jump and called it a day - Vindicator is now STRONGER. Not that i'm complaining, it's finally fun to play, but if they can do that to Vindicator, i fail to see why we need to be nerfed again in order to get our dodge back. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 Look they can remove the alacrity from staff while returning our 2nd dodge, but if they remove the ability to dodge while CC then our dodge is worse then a normal dodge and at that point I rather not have that tradeoff. Not only are we cucked for not having distance but our dodge is more hindered by chill and slow. If the argument is that we have jaunt then its still worse then a normal dodge because you have split the dodge + the distance into 2 different things. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said: Look they can remove the alacrity from staff while returning our 2nd dodge, I didn't see Vindicator trade in anything for their 2nd dodge... Meanwhile - we traded traits, damage, and utility already and we still don't have the second dodge. 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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