Do I "suck" or is Untamed just awkward too use?

[SamuelW.2685]

Well it's cause I suck at overly complex class mechanics per se,  I don't like having complex rotations on top of having to think about encounter mechanics. And besides, everyone pro or not has a rotation until Minister Li Dragon Slashes you back to Tyria.
I main Thief mostly cause of the free flowing nature of initiative, and look for LI builds on other classes,  so I don't need to focus on stupid long rotations during a strike. I regularly get close to or peak DPS with condi DD.

But my god man, Untamed feels awkward, I wouldn't even call it bad, just awkward as hell, having to juggle  two sets of hammer skills, manage two sets of pet actions, knowing when to CC due to fervent force, and all that on top of having 7 bloody class skills. 

Like I tried to simplify it a bit using the trait that increases damage instead of fervent force and still didn't get good results, am I doing something wrong or is untamed just meant to be kinda awkward too use? Like my god Ele is less awkward to use, even Weaver feels more fluid even though it's still over designed too hell and back, like my Tempest does more damage then my Weaver and is still very flexible if things go south. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by SamuelW.2685
Posted too early, whoops :/

[EvilZombie.6801]

Its not your fault i hope untamed pet ability have auto cast im playing it piano i just press f1 f2 f3 whenever my pet is near the target

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Untamed is a high skill ceiling spec, yes.

[Mell.4873]

Untamed's problem is it does have to many skills and no clear rotation, Soulbeast has amazing set up utilities with a huge pay-off.

There is a trick, priorities your high damage skills first then go down the list. If you play with Hammer then normally the highest damage skill is something like Frost Trap, with the goal to reset its cooldown very frequently.

An example of a beginner rotation:

• Unleash Yourself
• Frost Trap
• Unleash Pet
• Hammer 3
• Hammer 5
• Hammer 3
• Repeat

After this you can combo skills like Frost Trap + Hammer Ambush, what i mean is you place the Frost Trap before you Unleash yourself.

It works something like this:

• Frost Trap
• Unleash Yourself
• Hammer Ambush
• Unleash Pet
• Hammer 3
• Hammer 5
• Hammer 3
• Repeat

If done correctly you will apply the 25% damage bonus on the Frost Trap while using the hammer spin attack.

 

Okay finally the last thing is watching for Break Bars, with a stunned Boss you can weave in Hammer Unleashed 2 and 4.
If you can do all that you can easily produce 20k+ DPS (full buffs) and even higher on the burst. It even has a high damage potential with AoE than Soulbeast.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Valfar.3761]

I think the problem a lot of people struggle with is that Untamed has a lot of moving parts, and trying to master everything at once is too difficult. I would suggest playing a double axe build and stay in Unleashed Ranger form permanently and get used to how Fervent Force works, before trying out the Unleash mechanic. With a double axe build you just go 2 > 4 > 2 > stun utility like Exploding Spores or Spike Trap or Storm Spirit > rinse repeat. Mix in whatever other abilities you like, be it Guard for damage reduction or Frost Trap for even more damage. Once you've become comfortable with that, then start flipping back and forth between the different unleashed stats to min max their benefits.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Valfar.3761

[Svarty.8019]

• It's not even the classes per-se.
• Arenanet made a complex combat system that favours certain people.
• It's far too easy to "suck".

Edited October 5, 2022 by Svarty.8019

[Beddo.1907]

The entire spec is full of design issues. (and you can tell by the rework taking months now)
You need to manage pet position and switch Unleash states to use both pet skill sets, BUT you also trigger ambush and swap hammer skills while doing it.
It's an issue of one state button affecting multiple states at a time and none of them feel rewarding enough to focus on.
However since there is a few states, it stacks up to a huge value loss, making the spec weaker as a result.
So now we are back to the usual "abuse one thing to the extreme" which ranger uses every espec release until it's nerfed/removed. (Druid Frost spirit+Damage glyph, Soulbeast Sic'em, Untamed FF/Sic'em+Tail Swipe)

TL;DR
Clunky feel, too much APM and not rewarding enough.

[Levetty.1279]

7 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

(and you can tell by the rework taking months now)

Honestly, I doubt its coming anymore. With it benching high on condi and alacrity dps builds being a 'thing' they might not bother. Even though both builds are terrible, and the alacrity build only lasting until they realise they gave a core class alacrity sharing and they need to make a quickness sharer for the next expac.

[Beddo.1907]

43 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Honestly, I doubt its coming anymore. With it benching high on condi and alacrity dps builds being a 'thing' they might not bother. Even though both builds are terrible, and the alacrity build only lasting until they realise they gave a core class alacrity sharing and they need to make a quickness sharer for the next expac.

They said they are doing the rework and they will.
The builds based on FF are too inconsistent to actually work in practice (it's been months and I still didn't see it being used in a raid/strike/fractal).
The reason why I am so sure the rework is happening is the fact that there was nothing done to the espec since autopet (which was already made for Mech), meaning it's pointless to dump time into temporary changes.
The earliest update to it would be November 29, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took till 2023 due to CMC coming in.
Also the Anet post so I don't sound insane:

Quote

There are no significant changes for Untamed coming in next week's patch.
It is getting a few damage increases, but I'm not going to claim that's a real solution to making it fun and relevant in PvE right now.

The designer behind Untamed did create it and the tools available to it through a PvP lens, and as such it's very effective there, but that focus on CC and punishing CC'ed targets doesn't translate as effectively to general PvE play or champion/boss encounters.

We're working on several approaches to this problem. Some already snuck out live early- improvements to the user interface and feedback on activating pet skills. More are coming.

The #1 piece of feedback I've seen every time Untamed is brought up is a desire to be able to set the F1 and F3 skills back to a state where the pet can use them automatically when appropriate. And that's absolutely understandable- when you equip the Untamed specialization, your pet now does -less- on its own than it did as core ranger, and you have to press more buttons to keep the same effectiveness.

While the ability to control its skill use can be important at times, the feeling that you need to do more to keep the same effectiveness on your pet isn't great.

To that end, we're currently in progress on a 'autoattack setting' system for pet skills.

Here's what to expect from that system, when it's finished and is released:
You'll be able to Ctrl+Mouse 2 on any Ranger or Mechanist pet skill button- that's F2 for core ranger, Druid, and non-merged Soulbeast, and F1/F2/F3 for Untamed and Mechanist. Doing so will set the skill to 'auto', and the pet will try to use it whenever it is in combat and the skill is available. When applied to the Untamed pet F1 and F3 skills, this setting makes the pet act like it does in other elite specializations.
Of course, now you'll also be able to activate this setting on F2.

You will be able to set any number of pet skills to this automatic state. As few or as many as you like! For Rangers, the skill auto settings will be stored per pet.

This is mostly complete on our internal development environment, but is not yet ready, as there's some more polish and testing to go. So- it's not going live next week. But it won't have to wait for the next major skills update either. We'll be able to release it when it's ready.

This is a first step in addressing un-fun aspects of Untamed gameplay, and it's definitely not the last. For a future profession update later this year, we are looking at how to use PvE/PvP splits more widely to make Untamed's profession mechanics more applicable in PvE.

So- yes. Not much yet. But we're working on it.

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Beddo.1907

[Mell.4873]

5 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

They said they are doing the rework and they will.

Outside of making the kit less spammy I would hate to see a rework on skills like Fervent Force. Its the core of what makes Untamed different to every other Ranger Elite. You could buff both of the other Grandmaster traits since they are more focused on PvP.
The hammer although clunky is very powerful but you can truly capitalize on any situation in PvE or PvP. Over all i think the Untamed is a good position with maybe a buff to other Grandmaster traits for PvE being the only rework I would want to see.

[anduriell.6280]

On 10/5/2022 at 6:41 AM, EvilZombie.6801 said:

Its not your fault i hope untamed pet ability have auto cast im playing it piano i just press f1 f2 f3 whenever my pet is near the target

I see you didn’t get the memo: right control key while you click in a pet skill. Just the same as with the skillbar. 
you are welcome. 
 

but yes we unDeveloped needs a full rework, we have been asking this since the EOD beta. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I don't see a full rework coming.  There's nothing that warrants it, and we have precedent with other specs that are really hard to play effectively like Weaver.

Possibly an alteration of Hammer, but even that's a stretch as few use MH Dagger on Soulbeast for instance, and that spec has been out since 2017.   They also just now revised Staff functionality and Druid has been around since 2015.

The most some can hope for is a LI build for Untamed, maybe similar to the one they took away from Soulbeast by ironically making it more complex.  

 

[Sporks.4395]

It's not necessarily you. You are going to have to put some serious hours into Untamed to get it working right. It's not an easy build to play. When you get the basics of how the skills work and how the cooldowns flow, it is absolutely a blast though. Keep practicing. Watch some video guides on it. Don't give up. It's a fun one!

[caveslug.5934]

Yea, not a fan of the hammer having 2 skill sets. I like the hammer per se, just not the flipping skill set. I really felt forced to try and set up CC attacks to do max damage.

I think I would really enjoy the elite a lot more, if they removed the CC to do more damage with hammer. And maybe removed the flipping skills set on hammer. Untamed elite feels like something someone came up with last minute on the toilet.

Edited October 7, 2022 by caveslug.5934

[Project exa.3204]

Untamed has a much higher skill curve than most ranger builds. Just keep working on your leashing / unleashing to maximize your DPS and CC if you aren't already & eventually it might click!

-Eros of Ascalon

[anduriell.6280]

1 hour ago, Project exa.3204 said:

Untamed has a much higher skill curve than most ranger builds.

Again unFun is designed to be used with a macro by using TP + hard hitting skill of your choice. For pet or unDeveloped the same. 

I did not find funny the instakill from nowhere with shatter mesmer or burst thief, i don't find fun the instaburst from unWanted. 

It is a bad desing because there is no counter from the target and it's an Insta 15K damage they have to react after the fact. And being able to do this in a cadence faster than most heals cooldown is even more absurd.

No skill to play with this  in fact unDeveloped seems complex because is a mess of a design. In WvW they are so unwelcomed. 

[eldrevo.1746]

Untamed has its own fluidity to it... Sometimes.

For example I'm having a blast playing Power Alac Untamed in PVE. It seemed complex at a first glance, but it could be brought down to a rather simple ruleset. Hammer 2 and 4 are big damage skills, press them when unleashed. Hammer 3 and 5 are CC skills, press them when leashed to cycle through cooldowns. Spores and spirits should be spammed on CD to cycle through cooldowns and give alacrity. Pet skills are usually spammed on CD. No real need for weapon or pet swap.

That's it. A simple yet very dynamic rotation, there are always impactful buttons to press, there's not too much to memorize at first and still plenty to min-max and master if you're into it. 

Condi variety is way more cumbersome though... But with a much better payoff in crazy high damage.

On 10/8/2022 at 12:15 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

Again unFun is designed to be used with a macro by using TP + hard hitting skill of your choice. For pet or unDeveloped the same. 

I did not find funny the instakill from nowhere with shatter mesmer or burst thief, i don't find fun the instaburst from unWanted. 

It is a bad desing because there is no counter from the target and it's an Insta 15K damage they have to react after the fact. And being able to do this in a cadence faster than most heals cooldown is even more absurd.

No skill to play with this  in fact unDeveloped seems complex because is a mess of a design. In WvW they are so unwelcomed. 

Much puns. Such funny. And I bet getting beamed from 1500 range by a sicem soulbeast is a way more pleasant experience 😏