Is warrior truly the worst class in the game?

[solo.1279]

On 10/6/2022 at 11:19 AM, Hashberry.4510 said:

Or you could grow up a bit, put down the meter and stop worrying about everyones numbers. 

This is a weird stance to take.

Numbers aren't the be all end all, sure. But there's a difference between, "This person is doing more damage than me all the time," and "This person's class outclasses everything I do in every single way, while having more variance and variety than I ever will."

Class aesthetics are a big part of why people play certain things, especially stick with them when they're in a sorry state. But the feel of a class in various different game modes is just as important to pay attention to. When you're playing a game and your favorite class is awful or left behind in regard to other classes in the game, aesthetics isn't going to do much to keep you wanting to play when the gameplay isn't there to back it up.

I don't care about how other people are doing in comparison to me in terms of DPS, but when a class goes into WvW, sPvP, and PvE and is essentially a lesser version of other classes and it's incredibly noticeable in its core gameplay, then that's an issue.

Do the mechanics feel good in comparison? Does the class have as many tools as other classes? Are there as many options available to the class as other classes? The answer to these, when you're comparing warrior, is obviously no. So, people are rightfully disillusioned and disappointed with its state in the current iteration of the game.

No one likes when their favorite thing to play gets stomped by other classes with modernized designs, because it becomes less of a player skill issue and more of a systemic issue that only the devs can fix. Numbers are just a small part of the puzzle. Mechanics, variety, gameplay, aesthetics, and general feel are just as important and there are many more places where Warrior is lacking than in just DPS numbers.

Edited October 8, 2022 by solo.1279

[Kstyle.5829]

Bladesworn was literally the most broken class in the game for months now.  The first day I made one I had no idea what I was doing and I was hitting 400k+ damage a game. That wouldn't be too big of a problem except I was also doing 500k + healing.  You literally could not win a ranked game if the other team had 2 bladesworn because nobody would ever die in a teamfight. They got nerffed and now they have buffed a million other warrior traits and skills.  Now you can run around with perma quickness and stability on hammer.

 

I don't understand why warriors whine so much.  No, warrior is not the worst class not by a long shot and it hasn't been for a long time. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Kstyle.5829

[eXruina.4956]

10 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

Bladesworn was literally the most broken class in the game for months now.  The first day I made one I had no idea what I was doing and I was hitting 400k+ damage a game. That wouldn't be too big of a problem except I was also doing 500k + healing.  You literally could not win a ranked game if the other team had 2 bladesworn because nobody would ever die in a teamfight. They got nerffed and now they have buffed a million other warrior traits and skills.  Now you can run around with perma quickness and stability on hammer.

 

I don't understand why warriors whine so much.  No, warrior is not the worst class not by a long shot and it hasn't been for a long time. 

wow.. 400k, 500k, in a ranked game in pvp.. amazing.. 😱

Edited October 9, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[Kstyle.5829]

44 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

wow.. 400k, 500k, in a ranked game in pvp.. amazing.. 😱

Oh don't worry that was literally just my first game. I was soon doing 700k+ both damage and healing with 30 + kills and 0 deaths.    If you don't think bladesworn was broken people are laughing at you because it was blatantly obvious.  It's not a matter of opinion they objetively were the strongest class by a huge margin.  Nobody should be doing more healing than menders amulet shout guardians were doing before they removed menders amulet... with a berserker amulet.  

[Stagnation.3659]

I heard bladesworn is still bugged by giving you stability in pvp. I doubt it's as strong as before since they removed the synergy of ammo refill with the shouts.

[eXruina.4956]

1 hour ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

Oh don't worry that was literally just my first game. I was soon doing 700k+ both damage and healing with 30 + kills and 0 deaths.    If you don't think bladesworn was broken people are laughing at you because it was blatantly obvious.  It's not a matter of opinion they objetively were the strongest class by a huge margin.  Nobody should be doing more healing than menders amulet shout guardians were doing before they removed menders amulet... with a berserker amulet.  

not worried.. not in the slightest ^~^

 

 wow.. 🤯

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 10/8/2022 at 12:14 PM, Kstyle.5829 said:

Bladesworn was literally the most broken class in the game for months now.  The first day I made one I had no idea what I was doing and I was hitting 400k+ damage a game. That wouldn't be too big of a problem except I was also doing 500k + healing.  You literally could not win a ranked game if the other team had 2 bladesworn because nobody would ever die in a teamfight. They got nerffed and now they have buffed a million other warrior traits and skills.  Now you can run around with perma quickness and stability on hammer.

 

I don't understand why warriors whine so much.  No, warrior is not the worst class not by a long shot and it hasn't been for a long time. 

You would understand more if you actually play the class as a whole and not just bladesworn.

[Kalthea.4326]

On 10/8/2022 at 12:14 PM, Kstyle.5829 said:

Bladesworn was literally the most broken class in the game for months now.  The first day I made one I had no idea what I was doing and I was hitting 400k+ damage a game. That wouldn't be too big of a problem except I was also doing 500k + healing.  You literally could not win a ranked game if the other team had 2 bladesworn because nobody would ever die in a teamfight. They got nerffed and now they have buffed a million other warrior traits and skills.  Now you can run around with perma quickness and stability on hammer.

 

I don't understand why warriors whine so much.  No, warrior is not the worst class not by a long shot and it hasn't been for a long time. 

If you read back through the forums, people actually understood the high potential of Bladesworn, but saw this as a problem as it quickly became the only Spec for Warriors to play. You can't just proclaim that because one Spec is overturned, the rest of the class is fine. I know a lot of people point fingers at Firebrand and Mechanist, but at the very least Core guardian can provide support, Dragon Hunter is a strong DPS pick, and Willbender is a good PvP pick with its evasions. Core Engineer has a lot of options on its toolbar, Scrapper is a solid quickness/super speed generator, and Holosmith has a ton of melee Utility. The complaints in this forum are about Warrior as a whole, not just specific scenarios.

[Kstyle.5829]

6 hours ago, Kalthea.4326 said:

If you read back through the forums, people actually understood the high potential of Bladesworn, but saw this as a problem as it quickly became the only Spec for Warriors to play. You can't just proclaim that because one Spec is overturned, the rest of the class is fine. I know a lot of people point fingers at Firebrand and Mechanist, but at the very least Core guardian can provide support, Dragon Hunter is a strong DPS pick, and Willbender is a good PvP pick with its evasions. Core Engineer has a lot of options on its toolbar, Scrapper is a solid quickness/super speed generator, and Holosmith has a ton of melee Utility. The complaints in this forum are about Warrior as a whole, not just specific scenarios.

But one spec being broken completely ruins PvP meta for everyone.  It's not realistic to think any MMO company is going to make every single spec in the game balanced for PvP and PvE.  It's a waste of time to even consider that idea.  It has never happened and it never will.

 

That's why you always see this rollercoaster of classes becoming overplayed and underused just based on 1 spec over or underperforming.  And that's exactly what is going to happen to every single PvP game for the rest of history.  If your class has 1 viable spec just be happy, because skill goes much further than class viability.  99% of people who complain on forums have no room to talk bc they don't play at the skill level where their class balance even matters

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

99% of people who complain on forums have no room to talk bc they don't play at the skill level where their class balance even matters

Class balance is a factor at every level. Sure, most players aren't at the level where what they had for breakfast can decide who wins, but you don't need to be a tournament winner to notice that it's a lot easier to do well with one profession over another.

[Kalthea.4326]

9 hours ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

But one spec being broken completely ruins PvP meta for everyone.  It's not realistic to think any MMO company is going to make every single spec in the game balanced for PvP and PvE.  It's a waste of time to even consider that idea.  It has never happened and it never will.

 

That's why you always see this rollercoaster of classes becoming overplayed and underused just based on 1 spec over or underperforming.  And that's exactly what is going to happen to every single PvP game for the rest of history.  If your class has 1 viable spec just be happy, because skill goes much further than class viability.  99% of people who complain on forums have no room to talk bc they don't play at the skill level where their class balance even matters

That's an awfully static viewpoint, especially in a game that advertises as being able to play how you want. Just because one spec is good and can change the game doesn't mean that the other spec shouldn't be adjusted for the better, or that one nerfed down to be more in line. I think you're also forgetting the fact that PvE exists, and how classes perform in that as well.

 

To be perfectly clear, what people are stating when they say that warrior is the worst class is not that it doesn't have a strong spec or that it isn't viable in some aspects. What they're saying is that warrior has almost zero choice on what to pick, because it's shoehorned into 2 different dps specs, at which point you're just comparing apples to apples and you're more than likely going to take the better apple (higher number), an extremely sub-par support spec through core, trait design that has us making sacrifices no other profession has to make, and a PvP focused spec that lacks a lot of PvE utility because its primary ability if stripping boons is almost entirely useless in a PvE setting since almost no NPCs have any boons to strip, so it's relegated to almost entirely being WvW.

[DemonCrypto.6792]

short answer to the question: yes.
 

Long answer : to compare

war mechanics = build up bars, use it to do numbers equal to any other classes, bound to the weapon you use in main hand

other classes mechanics= have between f1 and f6 options , most doesn't need to build up bars , most does something else than dmg, most are not close range and most doesn't reduce dps by half if failed

War mechaniques are really punishing and restricted in utilitys (cc or dmg), this is why i think we are on or close to be the worst class in this game.

 

[thaniretouni.4762]

i will say this again. the only warrior that has a place in wvw atm is spellbreaker but not only because of the boonstrip its because after the last patch, breaching strike deals the dmg it does in pve despite what the tooltip says. it finally feels like warrior is playable again just with proper dmg on one skill that has low cd. i had a blast these days. reminded me of the pre-2020 warrior

Edited October 10, 2022 by thaniretouni.4762

[Vordrax.5243]

Warrior has basically become a victim of two issues: the combination of role compression (exacerbated by specs that basically just do "all the things + damage") and a lack of thematic differentiation between the specs. Core Warrior is "a sturdy melee-focused bruiser." Berserker is "a sturdy melee-focused bruiser that uses fire." Spellbreaker is "a sturdy melee-focused bruiser that dispels buffs." Bladesworn is "a sturdy melee-focused bruiser that does a big hit." I'm not even trying to be overly reductive. Warrior's main differentiation came from having unique effects on their banners. Now that that no longer do that (and I'm not saying they should), it is way more apparent that Warrior has been sidelined from a design standpoint by role compression in other specs because there is no vision for any of the Warrior specs to expand the functionality of the profession in a meaningful way. I think that ANet should revisit the design principles around the Warrior (and Elementalist too but I know this thread isn't about them) with the same care and attention that they've given to other professions.

[DaniTheHero.6318]

On 10/14/2022 at 3:38 PM, Vordrax.5243 said:

Warrior has basically become a victim of two issues: the combination of role compression (exacerbated by specs that basically just do "all the things + damage") and a lack of thematic differentiation between the specs. Core Warrior is "a sturdy melee-focused bruiser." Berserker is "a sturdy melee-focused bruiser that uses fire." Spellbreaker is "a sturdy melee-focused bruiser that dispels buffs." Bladesworn is "a sturdy melee-focused bruiser that does a big hit." I'm not even trying to be overly reductive. Warrior's main differentiation came from having unique effects on their banners. Now that that no longer do that (and I'm not saying they should), it is way more apparent that Warrior has been sidelined from a design standpoint by role compression in other specs because there is no vision for any of the Warrior specs to expand the functionality of the profession in a meaningful way. I think that ANet should revisit the design principles around the Warrior (and Elementalist too but I know this thread isn't about them) with the same care and attention that they've given to other professions.

 

Exactly. All the elites and core have only one role, and they don't even excel at it.

[Leo G.4501]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:28 AM, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

That's not entirely true. Sure in the end if you play casually, it doesn't matter what you play as long as you have fun, and even less casually as long as you're doing fine, it doesn't *really* matter*.

 

However there is a difference here. This isn't a matter of similar classes and one of the two happened to have just smaller numberes.
It's an objective reality where one class is by far, not as useful as the others, weaker than the others, and in some cases harder to play.

I mean Mechanist isn't UNFUN to play. Why shouldn't I just swap my DPS warrior to Mechanist? I'll have to focus far less, i'll exert less effort, and i'll even do BETTER than I would've done with my warrior.
Or what if my only role isn't needed in the group i'm currently in? Instead of either hindering it or leaving to find a different one, I could simply swap into a strong support or healer build instead using either the same elite or one of the others within the same class. I mean what would I do with my warrior? Throw (the terrible) banners and AOE shake it off?

There's a bigger fundemental problem here than just "Caring with others think". There is practically no objective reason, from a long term gameplay point of view, to play Warrior when it barely does anything and the few things it does do it does poorly compared to other classes that are EASIER to play.
 

This doesn't just end in PVE.
Today I had my mind blown. I was playing Warrior for years, including in spvp. I was always aware of how poor it is. Today I had enough. I tried mechanist, for the FIRST time. And faired better, post nerf than I ever had in 8 years as a Warrior of any elite. I won 5 games in a row, died maybe like once throughout the entire couple of matches. The experience was just night and day. Tons of mobility, CC, stunbreaks, all while being uber safe from a distance and dealing massive damage. Like, why would I EVER play warrior again in spvp?

 

 

Philosophical arguments are tough since, depending on what you feel like saying at the moment, you can flip arguments on a whim.

 

The question is, why are you only playing warrior for so long? Why did it take you so long to branch out? IMO, that's particularly ludicrous to me. I'd get bored playing something similar for years.

 

On the point that there are professions that are easier and more effective so why bother with something that's not? This is a very true argument. And better yet, why play such a stressful game? Those idle rpg mobile games are all the rage and their graphics are getting better and better. Why not just make GW2 an idle game that plays itself (*cough*afkfarmers*cough*)? These games make way more money than mmos too.  Then it'd be simple to balance by just making the numbers and animation times the same and static. So why aren't you playing an idle game right now?

 

On the reverse, why do people play games like Sekiro or Dark Souls? Or impose limits or challenge themselves? Maybe people enjoy being seen as the underdog or something or enjoy the challenge. Am I saying Warrior is an underdog? Well *I'm* not... Ultimately, someone is going to be at the bottom. I think one could argue how much of a gap there should be but I feel that's not what you're going to encounter here. Or maybe the question should be, if you know a profession is the worst, would you still play it?

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

8 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

All the elites and core have only one role, and they don't even excel at it.

This is why I could never wrap my head around the balance team's overcautious nature with warrior. Warrior isn't dominant in anything.

[Tipsy.5802]

In all the days I've been in the halloween labyrinth,I notice that most players are faster than me & I have to mount up just to be able to catch up all the time.Is that some speed boon i'm unaware of? Or are warriors just slower? 

At times it annoys me that i can't keep up with the group,as everything is gunned down before i usually can reach it. Guess it made me miss a lot of trick or treat bags. Until i got my charzooka ,which seemed to have improved it a bit,that i at least have a chance to get a few of the trick or treat bags on the way now & then. Or are they all using some speed booster i'm unaware of?

Or there some kind of "in combat "bug that makes you run slower or so? or is slower running a heavy armor/soldier profession thing?

Not sure what it is really.But I do notice i fall behind in squads very often. 
Though I like the warrior.Hope next patch will be promising .

Edited October 29, 2022 by Tipsy.5802

[Alexe.3975]

I for one enjoy giving full stacks of might in few seconds with 100% uptime even if it gets boon removed in wvw. And that's about the usefulness i seen in wvw with my warrior. As i  get my kitten handed by everyone even in 1v1 by people with half my hp. I am still on exotic set... curious if i get mythic if it will change.

Oh i am a rifle warrior think i am the only one to. xD

Edited October 29, 2022 by Alexe.3975

[eXruina.4956]

1 hour ago, Leo G.4501 said:

The question is, why are you only playing warrior for so long? Why did it take you so long to branch out? IMO, that's particularly ludicrous to me. I'd get bored playing something similar for years.

 

if you know a profession is the worst, would you still play it?

why are you blaming players for poor game design and maintainance?

 

choosing classes should not be punishing for players to begin with.

 

building up a character takes time and investment, even here in Guild Wars 2 where developing alternative characters is easier than in other games.

 

there's 4 expansions worth of map completion and story mode to repeat, which is mostly redundant and unrewarding after doing it once, there's purchase of character specific upgrades like profession enhancement tab, bag slots, equipment templates, build templates. there's choice of legendary and varying usefulness and limitations of weapons and even though they are account wide. nobody owns the whole armory in a day. there's alot of work involved. and there is love attachment for the class.

 

there are people who don't invest or invest very little in a class, thats well and good, but don't devalue what others work hard and dedicate to attain.

 

are you going to give away effort, time and money people spent on their characters? are you going to repeat map completion and story for us on all our characters? are you going to buy us character upgrades and give us free legendaries?

 

lets have it then. 🙂

also there are certain expectations in an mmorpg that have to be met, balance for example, the power and capability between classes is expected to be close and relative to each other and maintained as such, it doesn't have to be equal but its expected to be close and acceptable. there's also uniqueness and identity. fun and successful gameplay. and many other criteria that are expected to be met. these are services anet is providing.

 

you're basically faulting people for buying and playing this game?

 

maybe you'd like to give them their money back too?

Edited October 29, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[eXruina.4956]

22 minutes ago, Alexe.3975 said:

I for one enjoy giving full stacks of might in few seconds with 100% uptime even if it gets boon removed in wvw. And that's about the usefulness i seen in wvw with my warrior. As i  get my kitten handed by everyone even in 1v1 by people with half my hp. I am still on exotic set... curious if i get mythic if it will change.

Oh i am a rifle warrior think i am the only one to. xD

giving out might to the party and high personal might uptime was once a warrior class identity.

 

many things unique to warrior were either taken away or handed out to other classes like candy.

 

yet. it took 10 years for warrior to get protection in core warriror, a single source, for a measly 3 seconds.

 

meanwhile some other classes can even walk around with a full bar of boons at near permanent uptime.

 

thats just 1 criteria, there are others but its too long winded.

[Leo G.4501]

39 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

why are you blaming players for poor game design and maintainance?

 

 

 

Who is blaming who?

[eXruina.4956]

11 minutes ago, Leo G.4501 said:

The question is, why are you only playing warrior for so long? Why did it take you so long to branch out? IMO, that's particularly ludicrous to me. I'd get bored playing something similar for years.

this.

 

they're not you. they can play a single class for years and have dedicated themselves to it. there's nothing wrong with that. you can't fault them for it.

Edited October 29, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[Leo G.4501]

5 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

this.

 

they're not you. they can play a single class for years and have dedicated themselves to it. there's nothing wrong with that.

Then why play a mech now? And that was more an aside question to that individual. There's no blame, it's just a simple question, one that that individual is only going to be able to answer.

 

Saying he dedicated himself to one profession seems to be your personal interpretation of his motives.

 

If I were playing warrior (or insert whatever profession) exclusively for years, my answer would likely be that I found it fun and entertaining. To them look at the OP's question (is warrior the worst) I'd probably have to reflect on if that even mattered since I had fun.

 

I'm not sure if you're pivoting to assign blame or malice but I'm trying to ask more questions than just the bland "omg this class trash, what do" because you'll probably keep getting insular feedback. That's just my perspective tho...

[eXruina.4956]

Just now, Leo G.4501 said:

There's no blame
 

I'm not sure if you're pivoting to assign blame or malice but I'm trying to ask more questions than just the bland "omg this class trash, what do" because you'll probably keep getting insular feedback. That's just my perspective tho...

ah i see,in that case i apologize then, it came off as you faulting him for his choices and for dedicating himself to a class. i misinterpreted it, thank you for clarifying.