Why do you only care about raids?

[Machineuzi.5604]

1 hour ago, yoni.7015 said:

Doesn’t the post say “one of the biggest” and not “the biggest”? I am pretty sure that for many the content itself is appealing and that’s why they raid even after they got the legendary armor. I know plenty of players that still raid after they got all legendaries from raids. 

 

Yeah exactly, and it doesnt help that the person is so black and white about it. Even if leggy armor was the biggest appeal of raids, why should that lead to it being removed as content? Its bizarre

[Luks.4230]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited October 10, 2022 by Luks.4230

[yoni.7015]

22 minutes ago, Machineuzi.5604 said:

 

Yeah exactly, and it doesnt help that the person is so black and white about it. Even if leggy armor was the biggest appeal of raids, why should that lead to it being removed as content? Its bizarre

Some people only read what they want to read and some here have bizarre opinions. 


 

Edited October 10, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Sobx.1758]

7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That the "it's not needed" is a non-argument. For it to have any meaning, legendary armor would need to be needed in the content it already is available in. It is not. As such, it's clear that "need" is not a factor at all - and that it never was.

It is an argument, because it's not needed. And because it's not needed, it's ok for it to remain a long term optional reward given out for aspirational content. "It's not needed" IS very much a factor when some people keep pretending they need it or they somehow won't be able to do whatever.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Klowdy.3126]

I would love an OW legendary set. I would definitely get it, even if it looked like the starting gear. I like to play around with different builds, and it would be nice to be able to do that more often.

 

That said, I have yet to find anything I can't do with exotic gear, ascended trinkets, and a mix of legendary, ascended and exotic weapons, mostly ascended from the specialization collections, which are pretty solo friendly. 

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Machineuzi.5604 said:

Why?

Raid population ended up so low Anet decided on discontinuing this mode. If a large part of that population was there just for the Legendary Armor, it means the mode should never have been started in the first place, as its popularity was probably never high enough to warrant that. It was just artificially propped up.

2 hours ago, Machineuzi.5604 said:

We can also say the same for the dozens of open world farms people run repeatedly for gold. I doubt the person you see in Dragonfall for the 1000th time is there to enjoy the scenery.

Sure. I'd like to point two things to you, though. First, noone playing Dragonfall ever complained about introducing good rewards on other maps, with an argument that "gold is one of the biggest appeals of Dragonfall" and that introducing good level of rewards elsewhere "would be basically cannibalizing from players starting to play on Dragonfall". Anyone using such an argument would have been laughed off immediately. Second, in the big scheme of things, Dragonfall rewards indeed do not matter much. If they were never so good, it would have had absolutely no impact on the game as a whole. If they'd end up getting nerfed tomorrow, some people would cry for a while, and move to another farm. If another farm elsewhere would end up being introduced, there would be no negative feelings at all. Frankly, most of OW maps (core, expansion and LS ones) are underpopulated nowadays.

Compare that to Raids, and complains that introducing a (different) legendary armor set would diminish and "cannibalize" that content - that argument shows that people using it fear, that Raids do not have anything to offer besides that, and that if a (new) legendary armor was offered somewhere where people actually play, too many raiders would actually prefer to play that content over Raids. Basically, they think that Raids are being propped mainly by players that do not really want to be there.

A content should exist because players like it. Not because players are being "paid" to play it. Rewards should be used only as a means to make players feel they are not losing out, never more than that. If similar rewards in other content would cause the first one to empty, then it just means it was time for it to die out.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Rewards should be used only as a means to make players feel they are not losing out

That's a difference between rewards in form of gold and optional long term rewards for aspirational content. As said above, you're not losing much if you don't want to improve because... that's right, because it's not needed:

Quote

That said, I have yet to find anything I can't do with exotic gear, ascended trinkets, and a mix of legendary, ascended and exotic weapons, mostly ascended from the specialization collections, which are pretty solo friendly. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Sobx.1758
generic

[vares.8457]

3 minutes ago, Klowdy.3126 said:

I would love an OW legendary set. I would definitely get it, even if it looked like the starting gear. I like to play around with different builds, and it would be nice to be able to do that more often.

No. Open World legendary armor would hurt the game. Very few Open World players would get it so it would also be a waste of resources. 
You can already get all legendary weapons and three trinkets in Open World, that’s enough. 

[Astralporing.1957]

13 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's a difference between rewards in form of gold and optional long term rewards for aspirational content. As said above, you're not losing much if you don't want to improve because... that's right, because it's not needed:

If you need a "aspirational reward" for players to care about the content, it isn't really aspirational at all. It is just a bribe. Bribe meant to artificially inflate content metrics.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If you need a "aspirational reward" for players to care about the content, it isn't really aspirational at all. It is just a bribe. Bribe meant to artificially inflate content metrics.

Don't need it in order for the content to exist, but maybe read up on aspirational rewards/contenet, because it's a rather... interesting position to take where you're trying to claim "aspirational content isn't aspirational because it also contains aspirational rewards".

But hey, if you need gold rewards for regular maps to be played ("so people don't think they're losing out") then maybe maps shouldn't exist either 🤦‍♂️

 

Improve at the game, play more of the content it offers and get aspirational rewards. Or don't and keep playing however you're playing because as already established, those aspirational rewards aren't needed to play the game.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Sobx.1758
generic

[Krzysztof.5973]

15 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If you need a "aspirational reward" for players to care about the content, it isn't really aspirational at all. It is just a bribe. Bribe meant to artificially inflate content metrics.

I've been reading these forums for years now, but this is the worst take I've ever seen someone make. 

[Hotride.2187]

Well they are finally spending effort on competitive balance so I'm happy. I'm guessing not even remotely as much effort as they've spent for the new strikes, but what can you do.

[Woof.8246]

20 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

I've been reading these forums for years now, but this is the worst take I've ever seen someone make. 

Yeah , there no need to create more cosmetic-aspiration reward for strikes as they belong to the raid ecosystem and they  should divert those resources to other gamemodes.

We cannot create too many aspirational contents  for 1 mode , while the others get none over time . It's unfair .

(locked mount , Water-skins , Imperial Everbloom Sprout .... we should shower other modes too with rewards)

Edited October 10, 2022 by Woof.8246

[pfuetzi.5421]

25 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

We cannot create too many aspirational contents  for 1 mode , while the others get none over time . It's unfair .

 

All legendary weapons and legendary armor are locked behind doing OW. Sooooo unfair!

[Woof.8246]

15 minutes ago, pfuetzi.5421 said:

 

All legendary weapons and legendary armor are locked behind doing OW. Sooooo unfair!

Snif

Strike/Raid are overloaded with aspiration content . Maybe an other content with the same amount might see more success .

*Slowly rubs my WvW/PvP hands and re-deigning WvW legendary to have a faster-active way , rather than the 10min passive one* *And a 8.000gold item to sell in the AH*

Edited October 10, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Astralporing.1957]

55 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Don't need it in order for the content to exist, but maybe read up on aspirational rewards/contenet.

Aspirational rewards are supposed to be loyalty rewards for sticking with the game longterm (as well as goals you can work towards). They are not supposed to be something that makes you pick a content you don't like over content you like , or something that is outside the path you will play, and thus be a goal you know you have to give up on (with both cases potentially decreasing your enjoyment)

55 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But hey, if you need gold rewards for regular maps to be played ("so people don't think they're losing out") then maybe maps should exist either 🤦‍♂️

A lot of maps are empty or next to empty (some of them former popular farms), and next to noone makes any drama due to it. But raise up a possibility that players might obtain legendary armor in a content they like (but not raids) and suddenly people react as if the world is ending.

I am perfectly fine with players being able to choose what they do based on their likes and dislikes. People like you apparently are scared of offering players such a choice however.

[pfuetzi.5421]

13 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

Strike/Raid are overloaded with aspiration content

wrong. You can't get any legendary weapon/armor by just doing raids. Most skins, infusions and titles are OW only. It is in fact a very small amount of rewards you get from just doing Strikes/Raids.

Edited October 10, 2022 by pfuetzi.5421

[Astralporing.1957]

57 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

I've been reading these forums for years now, but this is the worst take I've ever seen someone make. 

Weird, because it is being used very frequently, and has been for years. It was being used even before raids were announced, when they were still a matter of discussion between players.

[Woof.8246]

13 minutes ago, pfuetzi.5421 said:

wrong. You can't get any legendary weapon/armor by just doing raids. Most skins, infusions and titles are OW only. It is in fact a very small amount of rewards you get from just doing Strikes/Raids.

Already Strikes/Raids have their overloaded aspiration content , so you cannot  ask for more .

You have to wait for the population to come to you ad other modes to get their turn with more rewards

Edited October 10, 2022 by Woof.8246

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

20 hours ago, Woof.8246 said:

OW host too many kind of people that are experimenting .

Just because I run around on a Vindicator that can endlessly spam dodge Anet is not balancing the game for me.

20 hours ago, Woof.8246 said:

Rather than force them to use Berseker and a proper build to beat any future-like-Soo-Won content , we use the Tentaqui/HoT Ends formula  , that allow those different kind of people to experience the OW content WITH THEIR PREFERABLE GEAR/TACTICS  and instead are taught the basic of the game .

Hardstuck beat Soo Won running Minion Reapers/Scourges and then did so again in a squad full of pre-buff Untameds. You don't need perfect gear for Soo Won, as it was said before many times. I managed to hit ~15k on that fight with my Virtuoso in a mix of Marauder, Trailblazer and Ritualist gear on the third day of the meta's release. 
If you don't know how to deal damage your gear won't help.

20 hours ago, Woof.8246 said:

Raids that give you Switch-able stat gear , is a best ground expirement . For example , imagine if you choose switch Templates (only 2 ) like Rev stances IN COMBAT and you had to choose between : Power/Condtion/Durable-Tanky specs , accordingly the boss switch-able stances .

What?

20 hours ago, Woof.8246 said:

(most people would choose Power /Condition and we would see more deaths in Strikes.

While the OW population would choose a Knight/Rabid combo)

You see more deaths because people can't be bothered to avoid obvious damage.

You complain that Anet focuses on Raiders even though the only difficult content released in the last year were EoD Strike CMs. The last Raid was added 3 years ago. Most content is focused on casual players, not Raiders. Just because something requires you to look at your screen instead of Netflix it's not a Raid automatically.

I recommend watching Hardstuck's video where they did the meta with those groups, and that was before the bigger nerfs. If you know how to play you'll see results, if you don't care don't complain you see no results. And as people say: Git gud.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Aspirational rewards are supposed to be loyalty rewards for sticking with the game longterm

No, now you're just thinking of -for example- birthday presents.

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

 They are not supposed to be something that makes you pick a content you don't like over content you like , or something that is outside the path you will play

They're supposed to give you a nudge into improving and going for the harder content though. And that's what they're doing. Don't want to? Great, that's a valid choice because of what those rewards are: optional.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Klowdy.3126]

6 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

No. Open World legendary armor would hurt the game. Very few Open World players would get it so it would also be a waste of resources. 
You can already get all legendary weapons and three trinkets in Open World, that’s enough. 

Easy there, I wasn't even suggesting that it happen. Only that I would like it, and would definitely get it. I then went on to say it was unnecessary. You're pointing your efforts at the wrong person.

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, now you're just thinking of -for example- birthday presents.

Not quite. There's some difference between loyalty rewards and additional goals attached to those. Login rewards are there to make you at least log into the game each day. Birthday rewards are there so you get attached to your characters. Aspirational rewards are longterm goals you can slowly work towards. All are loyalty rewards, but all have a slightly different purpose.

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They're supposed to give you a nudge into improving and going for the harder content though. And that's what they're doing. Don't want to? Great, that's a valid choice because of what those rewards are: optional.

Those specific ones, yes, are supposed to push you into raids. That's not necessarily what aspirational rewards are for. And aspirational rewards most of the player population will never work towards make for very poor longterm goals, thus failing at their primary purpose.

 

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Not quite. There's some difference between loyalty rewards and additional goals attached to those. Login rewards are there to make you at least log into the game each day. Birthday rewards are there so you get attached to your characters. Aspirational rewards are longterm goals you can slowly work towards. All are loyalty rewards, but all have a slightly different purpose.

So you have -again, as quick examples- login rewards, daily achievements and achievement point rewards in general. The point remains the same. They're not exactly aspirational rewards bound to aspirational content, because that's not the same as loyalty rewards.

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Those specific ones, yes, are supposed to push you into raids. That's not necessarily what aspirational rewards are for. And aspirational rewards most of the player population will never work towards make for very poor longterm goals, thus failing at their primary purpose.

We're talking about aspirational rewards and content. They're not poor long term goals. They're not even close to being the only long term goals. You seem to try to use "long term goal", "loyalty reward" and "aspirational reward/content" kind of interchangably, but as much as they can be intertwined, they're not the same thing.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So you have -again, as quick examples- login rewards, daily achievements and achievement point rewards in general. The point remains the same. They're not exactly aspirational rewards bound to aspirational content, because that's not the same as loyalty rewards.

We're talking about aspirational rewards and content. They're not poor long term goals. They're not even close to being the only long term goals. You seem to try to use "long term goal", "loyalty reward" and "aspirational reward/content" kind of interchangably, but as much as they can be intertwined, they're not the same thing.

That's just your own interpretation. You simply ascribe far greater importance to this content than it has. For content to be 'aspirational", it needs to be a goal for players, something they hope to eventually reach. In reality however anyone that truly wants to, can easily raid.

The reality is that most players do not raid not because they are not good enough, but because they simply aren't interested in this type of content at all. There's no "aspiration" attached to it. It's primarily a matter of like and dislike. It's the same with PvP modes, by the way. The reason why WvW and SPvP paths to legendary armor are traversed by only a small percentage pf players is again not due to any skill barrier (because there's none at all here), but due to the content itself simply not being likeable enough for many.

As such, those types of content fail to be "aspirational" for practically anyone - both those that do play, as well as those that do not.

For a goal (be it a reward or content) to be aspirational, you have to first consider aiming at it. If you don't, then it failed in that purpose.