Penalize the worst please

[Sundoor.5630]

I'm pretty sure this has come up a few (or maybe a hundred) times already over the course of this game, but as a fairly new player I'm shocked to see that the worst of the worst in PVP, those that intentionally throw games demoralizing 4 other people and ruining the fun for 9, are basically not penalized. It is especially disenheartening to meet these players like 3 times in a row in a chain of 3 ruined matches before the matchmaking system curses someone else with them.

 

We all know reporting has no effect, but it wouldn't be hard to implement a watchdog system that brings the hammer down on these people. The game already tracks damage, point control, healing etc. It wouldn't, shouldn't be hard to implement a system that constantly monitors performance and severely underperfoming / inactive players get an automatic 3-24 hour ban from PVP based on severity

 

I'd love to see a greater deterrence against people actively trying to ruin other people's games. I've got nerves of steel when it comes to PVP, but this gets under anyone's skin

[Bizgurk.5639]

7 minutes ago, Sundoor.5630 said:

We all know reporting has no effect

It has an effect. If enough people report a certain player he will get a few minutes timeout and can't queue during that time.
This timeout, however, is only a few minutes. It used to be much greater for a short while aftere they implemented that report system. Like half an hour or something.
But people got reported for being bad, got reported for a disconnect... it wasn't used the way it was meant to be. 
Those people complained on reddit, threatened to quit the game and the developers reduced that timeout to the nothingness we have now.

I like your suggestions though. Yet we all know they won't happen...

[Bast.7253]

5 hours ago, Sundoor.5630 said:

I'm pretty sure this has come up a few (or maybe a hundred) times already over the course of this game, but as a fairly new player I'm shocked to see that the worst of the worst in PVP, those that intentionally throw games demoralizing 4 other people and ruining the fun for 9, are basically not penalized. It is especially disenheartening to meet these players like 3 times in a row in a chain of 3 ruined matches before the matchmaking system curses someone else with them.

 

We all know reporting has no effect, but it wouldn't be hard to implement a watchdog system that brings the hammer down on these people. The game already tracks damage, point control, healing etc. It wouldn't, shouldn't be hard to implement a system that constantly monitors performance and severely underperfoming / inactive players get an automatic 3-24 hour ban from PVP based on severity

 

I'd love to see a greater deterrence against people actively trying to ruin other people's games. I've got nerves of steel when it comes to PVP, but this gets under anyone's skin

1.) Depending on who you’re teamed with, you could be doing more in 5 minute sprints than the rest of the team does all match due to down/respawn time. 
 

2.) In unranked you may have real life situations come up that are unexpected. Aka phone call, someone at the door, changing mouse/keyboard batteries. 
 

3.) Certain top stats like healing could be cheesed from someone intentionally damaging their self and healing up repeatedly. 

[Bazsi.2734]

8 hours ago, Sundoor.5630 said:

The game already tracks damage, point control, healing etc. It wouldn't, shouldn't be hard to implement a system that constantly monitors performance

Deterring others from ruining games is a nice goal. However... tracking damage, point control and healing is not good enough. If I just kite around far-point in an outnumbered situation all match, I hard carried my team to victory. But based on my stats, I'm doing nothing.

Conquest is not just standing on a point and hitting the enemy till it dies. There is no easily implementable system that could objectively tell if a player is over- or underperforming. 

[shion.2084]

I would like to see something that encourages folks to keep playing.  For instance I would like it if I get 4 top scores and lose, that my rank not be affected.   Instead of the stick... maybe the carrot.

I agree with Bazi though that there are some un-metric'd contributions currently, so I'd potentially add something like number of caps to the stats.

[DeanBB.4268]

That sounds like great incentive to try out PvP. "Oh yeah, if you suck and don't know what you're doing, you'll get temp-banned."

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Heart's in the right place, would want to make sure nobody innocent gets banned though or else our pool of 20  active players becomes 19 and so on.

 

Just the tiniest amount of effort from Arenanet would do. They already have the means to track individual players statistics throughout the entirety of a match. All it takes is 1 GM, or even a an automated system to look and see that Johhny Wintrader quit and contributed absolutely nothing to the remainder of a match after the first midfight, then ban Johnny Wintrader. Its that easy, and I know for a fact they can do it based on the banned from Club Penguin speedrunning times they manage when it comes to banning someone for saying a naughty word or mentioning someone by name.

[Sundoor.5630]

On 10/14/2022 at 5:49 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

Deterring others from ruining games is a nice goal. However... tracking damage, point control and healing is not good enough. If I just kite around far-point in an outnumbered situation all match, I hard carried my team to victory. But based on my stats, I'm doing nothing.

Conquest is not just standing on a point and hitting the enemy till it dies. There is no easily implementable system that could objectively tell if a player is over- or underperforming. 

I understand your point, but the system idea I laid down does not have to be super kitten. It doesnt have to penalize underperfoming player per se. Even if you are just kiting around far point, your basic match stats will show progress (it is _very_ unlikely that you just run around, do zero damage, zero point control, zero healing etc.)

I'd say it is enough deterrent that a griefer can't just AFK to hurt others, but if they really want to hurt their teams they have to at least do something instead of nothing. They have to work to grief.

Unranked does not need to be penalized at all, just ranked.

In ranked even if you need to afk because of life, well that's tough. But I think it is a very rare occasion and you can survive a little penalty (I personally wouldn't get upset)

 

Maybe the automated judge system can be combined with reporting. Only those are judged who are reported or something

[Gladiotor.7561]

On 10/14/2022 at 3:00 PM, Bast.7253 said:

2.) In unranked you may have real life situations come up that are unexpected. Aka phone call, someone at the door, changing mouse/keyboard batteries. 

Not only in unranked. A real life emergency or situation can come in any moment and its usually unexpected. 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

How is AI going to learn if players are "intentionally throwing" games or are just doing their best but are outskilled/outplayed?

 

I'm always doing my best in PvP but some games I'm just matched against players that just effectively counter my character. Id if I go close, I get destroyed, if I got mid, I get destroyed, and if I got far, I get destroyed. And if I wait for my team mates I / we just get killed at our spawn.

 

I've seen what AI can do on platforms like Youtube, where users get penalized for no reason because some piece of AI thinks they did something against the guidelines.

 

The problems you talk about are very real and I see them as well. But I don't think penalizing AI is the right answer.

Edited October 18, 2022 by TheQuickFox.3826

[Sundoor.5630]

Like I said, this system does not have to be super strict and should err on the side of good intentions

I'd be perfectly happy if all it did is weed out the worst of it. During the game you did close to zero damage AND close to zero heal AND close to zero point caps? This is an extremely good indication that you threw the game. 

If a griefer makes the effort to pew pew some and heal a bit to avoid the banhammer from the automated system, fine. At least they have to WORK to ruin other people's fun.

 

As far as life happening goes... if I had to miss a game because I dunno got an emergency call, I am still boning my team and killing the fun for 9. Anyone can survive a 1-3 hour pvp lockout. It is not the end of the world.

 

I'm fine if a griefer can only ruin others' games every 3 hours or so, most people grief for being unable to handle the stress of a competitive game, and they have plenty time to cool down and start thinking straight.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Sundoor.5630

[Gotejjeken.1267]

You'd also have to fix when you are on a team with people that try but are so far under your skill level it becomes meaningless.  

Until we have a solution for being forced to carry noobs, we cannot have a solution for people who early exit or afk.  As there is no incentive to carry, lose 490-500 and still lose ~18-20 rank points, might as well just leave when its 100-300.  

[Nymthalas.4019]

5 hours ago, Sundoor.5630 said:

Like I said, this system does not have to be super strict and should err on the side of good intentions

I'd be perfectly happy if all it did is weed out the worst of it. During the game you did close to zero damage AND close to zero heal AND close to zero point caps? This is an extremely good indication that you threw the game. 

If a griefer makes the effort to pew pew some and heal a bit to avoid the banhammer from the automated system, fine. At least they have to WORK to ruin other people's fun.

 

As far as life happening goes... if I had to miss a game because I dunno got an emergency call, I am still boning my team and killing the fun for 9. Anyone can survive a 1-3 hour pvp lockout. It is not the end of the world.

 

I'm fine if a griefer can only ruin others' games every 3 hours or so, most people grief for being unable to handle the stress of a competitive game, and they have plenty time to cool down and start thinking straight.

Although I get why you say it... it's way harder than it seems. For example the case stated before you hard carry kiting far against multiple enemies and you will not see it on end match stats, or you could think someone with good stats is doing well like a daredevil top damage and 0 offense stat which should be a throw on the daredevil side. Those are examples but how to rotate can affect your stats, and it completely depends on your team builds and enemy builds, so it's not that easy to check. In fact there is people that has thought i've thrown a game because I was not going to go to side node with support against enemy sidenoder.

You would need humans analyzing all pvp matches to check for example who is just pew pew from outside node to make some damage and griefing, and who is doing pewpew outside node to avoid enemy burst on node and then jump on node to continue damage rotation with weapon swap and avoiding enemy cap.

I'm inclined to think it would be better not allowing making duoq with players with much rating difference, increase the pips on wining and don't give pips when losing. Without reward on losing griefing in most cases would not make sense, and you already force people to at least try.