Mesmer problem

[Stagnation.3659]

How do you deal with mesmers in general? I can't seem to get the drop on them in all my time playing pvp. I just feel helpless.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Stagnation.3659 said:

How do you deal with mesmers in general? I can't seem to get the drop on them in all my time playing pvp. I just feel helpless.

I found that back to back Arc Dividers usually puts them into downstate.

[Zekent.3652]

FC used to counter their clones, now it deals 0 damage, but don't be surprised, mesmer has been countering warrior since a while, if they're condi, use the LoS in your favor, if they got Power Block, bait mending or cover it with FC.

Btw:  Most of mesmers doesn't even know what are they PBing btw, except the good ones, will almost always try to PB your Mending, so try to stow it to bait their PB.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Zizekent.2398
Typo

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

38 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

mesmer has been countering warrior since a while

Since the beginning. I remember the first time I killed a mesmer on warrior and I celebrated. The mesmer I killed rage quit lol.

[Zekent.3652]

1 minute ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Since the beginning. I remember the first time I killed a mesmer on warrior and I celebrated. The mesmer I killed rage quit lol.

i'm playing since 2018, so no clue about the launch, but yeah, i even remember them calling us "immortals" while they were on mirage... xD was pretty fun.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

1 minute ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

i even remember them calling us "immortals" while they were on mirage... xD was pretty fun.

That's the only reason anet is hesitant to return mirage's 2 dodges. The mesmer forum is calling for them to do it but mirage was an absolute killer and untouchable. Almost every build worked lol.

[Stagnation.3659]

Full counter having its damage back would definitely help. Struggling even more if they have too much mobility. When I finally do make it to them, they have that BS invuln

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

13 minutes ago, Stagnation.3659 said:

Full counter having its damage back would definitely help. Struggling even more if they have too much mobility. When I finally do make it to them, they have that BS invuln

Mesmer is probably warrior's worst matchup, IMO.

 

A few general principles to keep in mind:

1) power is more effective than condi vs most mesmers

 

2) splash damage/cleave is very helpful in dealing with their clones.  Sometimes a well-timed arcing slice or cyclone axe (or similar skill) can destroy the clones before they can shatter on you---while hopefully damaging the mesmer at the same time.

 

3) most mesmers like to hang right outside of melee range, so having some ranged attacks (or mobile ones) to pressure them is very useful

 

4) most mesmer builds are burst-oriented.  If you see that flash of an illusion starting, especially if the mesmer is apparently stealthed, DODGE.  DODGE NOW.  Keep your finger on your Endure pain key, so that if you get CC'd and they start their shatter combo on you, you can immediately break stun and negate their damage.  Mesmers often expend a fair bit of their CDs to execute their combo, so if you can survive it, they often have little available until their skills come off CD again.  This gives you a window to counter-pressure.

 

5) check to see if they have Signet of Humility on their bar.  If so, be sure to look for it's activation animation (which is hard, because they often run multiple signets and the activations look similar, at least on my small laptop screen). If the mesmer still has SoH available and suddenly goes into stealth, wait 0.5s and dodge or block so they don't Moa you from stealth.  

 

As an aside, SoH is probably the dumbest and most toxic skill in the game.  A 6s CC (which can be cast from range and from stealth) with no way for you or even a teammate to break it is disgusting.  This should absolutely be turned into a regular knockdown or something.  CC is fine, but a 6s unbreakable transformation is not.  Anyways.  Rant over.

 

In light of the points above, Bladesworn is my preferred spec on which to fight a mesmer.

1) it's a power build with lots of cleave/splash damage

2) it has a variety of ranged (e.g., artillery slash and cyclone trigger) and mobile (DS Boost) attacks to keep the pressure on 

3) it has an unblockable and unblindable burst, negating 2 of mesmer's main defensive tools.

4) It has very good healing, allowing you to recover from mesmer bursts

5) you generate a lot of endurance thanks to MMR; more dodges is key to staying out of their burst set-ups.

 

Here's the build I use:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgEcEWWK7ihxCZu4w9sHLB-zZILjGTgMLATGAA

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

2) splash damage/cleave is very helpful in dealing with their clones.  Sometimes a well-timed arcing slice or cyclone axe (or similar skill) can destroy the clones before they can shatter on you---while hopefully damaging the mesmer at the same time.

 

3) most mesmers like to hang right outside of melee range, so having some ranged attacks (or mobile ones) to pressure them is very useful

 

Hence why back to back Arc Dividers puts them in downstate.

[Stagnation.3659]

Even virtuoso is giving me trouble these days. Between the long kitten block and invuln or the usual staff user, do I really have to go back to bladesworn just to even stand a chance.

[Tycura.1982]

Assuming you're Spellbreaker.

 

If they're running condi use Mending and Cleansing Ire. Vs Mirage bait out their dodges and be aware of their diamond mirror things that they run to. It's a dodge for them when they touch it and if they're decent they will try and chain them. Try and focus mainly on Dagger F1 as staff and scepter both have blocks. They have bad sustain so just widdle them down. Watch your confusion stacks and swap often. Use their clones to pop ire and adrenal. Less clones means less shatters. WATCH YOUR CONFUSION STACKS. Swap your weapons often for Brawlers Recovery and run Cleansing on one of your weapon sets.

Vs Condi Virtuoso use FC into their block shatter to shut it down. Spam Dagger F1. Don't eat their telegraphed shatters. If you do then swap weapons or don't do anything at all until the 20 confusion stacks falls off.

Vs any Virtuoso try and use their block shatter against them. Their shatters are so telegraphed that you can pretty much avoid it altogether in a 1v1. Don't block into their shatter if you can help it. They might be running unblockable.

VS any power mesmer. Dodge GS2. Dodge GS4. Don't get shattered on. If you can do that they have to do one of three things. Reset, run, or die because they're free after that.

 

We ramp up and they ramp down. You will always outsustain a mesmer. Just watch your conditions or if they're chucking a greatsword over their head or to the side. You can still see their GS2 even from stealth. GS2 is unblockable and bounces.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Tycura.1982

[eXruina.4956]

i'll be speaking from a wvw perspective. this matchup is an uphill battle, against the better mesmers, it will require much experience, patience and awareness.

 

power is much more manageable than condi. so i'll discuss condi.

 

against condi, keep the fight moving, and move the fight away from the clones, specially when it gets to 3+, this alone will negate much of their shatter potential and torment damage, this way you'll also take less residual damage from clones, and they'd have to get into your range to shatter you. the distance also allows you to see the clones coming at you which makes dodging or moving away from a ranged shatter easier.

 

don't overcommit, its all about zoning and finding your window, which is hard, you need to burn their defensive cooldowns, and apply enough pressure to close the fight, very hard to do if they are smart/good and play conservatively. its a back and forth.

 

be very aware of confusion stacks, its best to apporach this matchup with precision, manual auto attacks, timed skill use, when healing at low hp, if your heal skill doesn't cleanse first, you'll die from confusion on using a heal skill. also they aim to interrupt your heal, so stay topped up, its best not to let it get to that point

 

you need to reacquire target constantly.

 

predict their movement when they stealth, this mostly comes down to insight and experience.

 

if you manage to fight them to a stalemate its very likely they'll get a +1 to back them up, in your case if you get a +1 they can still get away easily, but if they get a +1 on you you're likely f*d.

 

like fighting thieves they'll also aim to keep resetting on you til they're favored.

 

if you're power they have the advantage of high armor, protection and other boons, against your slow, telegraphed animations they have blinds, interrupts, soft cc. they have invulnerability, they have stealth, they have ports. and they still have some more things going for them besides all that. 🤣

Edited October 15, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

11 hours ago, Stagnation.3659 said:

Even virtuoso is giving me trouble these days. Between the long kitten block and invuln or the usual staff user, do I really have to go back to bladesworn just to even stand a chance.

I haven't gone against too many virtuosos in warrior roaming but with thief, I killed a virtuoso two or three times thanks to the reflect on dagger storm. Right when I saw the virtuoso do that fancy animation on its shatter, I hit dagger storm right away and they took down their own health half way 😆

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

41 minutes ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

I haven't gone against too many virtuosos in warrior roaming but with thief, I killed a virtuoso two or three times thanks to the reflect on dagger storm. Right when I saw the virtuoso do that fancy animation on its shatter, I hit dagger storm right away and they took down their own health half way 😆

Yeah reflecting it is fun. But it's unreliable bc they have a trait that can make it unblockable... Better to dodge, imo

[Lonecap.4105]

7 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Yeah reflecting it is fun. But it's unreliable bc they have a trait that can make it unblockable... Better to dodge, imo

Not a worry for thieves of course, dagger storm reflects and evades.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

6 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Not a worry for thieves of course, dagger storm reflects and evades.

Good point 😅 Those sneaky kittens

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

35 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Good point 😅 Those sneaky kittens

But you still made a fair point since warrior can't reflect and evade at once. For glassy burst builds, it might just be better to hit the emergency button on endure pain or like you said, to dodge.

Also, some players aren't good at simply taking a step back to watch their opponent and see what they're doing. Just watching and not pushing buttons allows you to see animations instead of just reacting brainlessly.

[Stagnation.3659]

how the hell do you even differentiate between the shatters

 

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

12 hours ago, Stagnation.3659 said:

how the hell do you even differentiate between the shatters

It's usually the order they use it and when they use it. If it's the beginning of the fight and everyone is full hp, it's most likely their burst. If they're low on health, it's most likely the defensive ones.

[Lighter.5631]

dont waste your abilities.

often times, warrior tend to waste abilities into blind/blocks.

remove blind/blocks with auto attacks, also kill clones with AoEs or AAs.

wait for their aegis to expire then use key skills

bait with AAs, as even AA is threatening to mesmer.

key is to pay attention to their boons.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Lighter.5631

[Thaddeus The Blade.6472]

On 10/14/2022 at 6:19 PM, Stagnation.3659 said:

How do you deal with mesmers in general? I can't seem to get the drop on them in all my time playing pvp. I just feel helpless.

Spellbreaker. That's how.

It's usually my go-to for them. The clone AI will foolishly trigger Full Counter constantly allowing you to more easily focus on the player. That and Revenge Counter to deflect conditions back at them. Mesmers, no matter the build, pretty much always dish out at least two condis.

[thaniretouni.4762]

Spellbreaker with tether and a very aggressive build is the answer most of the time. Ofc, you need some experience against mesmers so ask a friend who knows how to play mesmer and duel him for a few days (only a few matches at a time) so that you have time to process what you are doing wrong. Also, he can explain to you his strategy against warriors so that you can figure out your counter strategy. 

[oscuro.9720]

Like most matchups for Warrior; be familiar with their rotations, be familiar with how they try to approach a warrior, know what animations do what, become familiar with dodge timing. 
 

Specifically; With defense line spell does much better now imo vs good Mesmer. Clones trigger FC and are easy to hit with arcing, providing constant adrenal health procs, CI or Rousing procs (I basically only run CI because I really really hate having conditions on me). This gives good cleanse or frequent stab, strong health over time, and incentivizes clearing clones with arcing more than pre-patch. For example, vs a condi mirage, you can quickly go arcing->FC->arcing on some clones to max out adrenal and cleanse 6 conditions, also cleaving their clones down mitigating their next burst. 
Resilient Roll has helped with some of the more annoying non-damaging conditions that Mesmer can get on you as well. 

 

[Mell.4873]

Mesmer have so many variations so it is hard to counter them all but generally cleaving whatever they spam will down them. The most aggressive bunker style Mesmer should an easy match up but if they are burst then you best bet is to reflect or dodge the damage.
I think the main thing with Mesmer and by extension Elementalist is just patience, get them to waste their cooldowns on simple skills and watch for burst combos.

[eXruina.4956]

On 10/15/2022 at 7:25 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I found that back to back Arc Dividers usually puts them into downstate.

wish arc divider hits harder, and faster, for me in wvw its been fluff, honestly 3 hits of other classes autos hit harder. 🥺

Edited October 18, 2022 by eXruina.4956