Maybe vindicator shouldn't be able to dodge while immobilized

[Crab Fear.8623]

On 10/20/2022 at 7:40 AM, phokus.8934 said:

How to tell if it's a dodge or not test...

Put down a ward.  Try to dodge past it.  If you're stopped then it's a dodge.  Mirage Cloak and Vindicator dodge mechanics are stopped by wards.  Therefore they are dodges.

 

Who decided that?

You?

On what authority?

Also, I dont think you are correct about wards and cloak. 

Show a video, cause my guess is you have terrible timing when crossing. 0.75 isnt that long

Edited October 22, 2022 by Crab Fear.8623

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 10/21/2022 at 9:30 PM, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

This would bork the game in so many ways it's ridiculous. You'd have to disable all evasion skills while immobilized like a form of CC

No. Only dodges. Because that's what happens with normal dodges: if you're immobilized, you can't dodge.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

7 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

No. Only dodges. Because that's what happens with normal dodges: if you're immobilized, you can't dodge.

You're missing the context of the thing I'm arguing against, which was: 'no evade or dodge should work when you are immobilized'. This includes all evasive skills.

 

If you want to try arguing only endurance costing evasion, then how can you say 'normal dodges'? Vindicator and Mirage do not have normal dodges, so they don't interact with immobilize like normal dodges do.

[Eugchriss.2046]

17 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

No. Only dodges. Because that's what happens with normal dodges: if you're immobilized, you can't dodge.

You are so fixated that you think dodge is the base and every other evades are derived from it which is not simply not true. Dodges are part of evades. Some evades can't work when immobilize like dodges others can. Dodges are just a specific part of the evade system.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Eugchriss.2046

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Hey so I went and tried to dodge while immobed on vindi and it didn't work.

 

Is this still a thing, can someone confirm if dodging with vindi without resistance actually is indiscriminate?

[phokus.8934]

20 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

 

Who decided that?

You?

On what authority?

Also, I dont think you are correct about wards and cloak. 

Show a video, cause my guess is you have terrible timing when crossing. 0.75 isnt that long

It doesn't matter what you think, you don't get to argue facts.  It's why Vindicators get knocked out of the air while dodging.

[Crab Fear.8623]

2 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

It doesn't matter what you think, you don't get to argue facts.  It's why Vindicators get knocked out of the air while dodging.

I don't know, I thought the trend was to argue against facts in this thread.

[Sereath.1428]

Maybe vindicator should be able to dodge over wards.


I thought they were jumping really high?
Otherwise the dodge animation is totally pointless at this point, misleading and not even unique after changing it from one dodge to the standard of two dodges. Specially after the continuous nerfs to the only thing the class was good at.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

12 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Hey so I went and tried to dodge while immobed on vindi and it didn't work.

 

Is this still a thing, can someone confirm if dodging with vindi without resistance actually is indiscriminate?

Now that's a good question, maybe I got it all wrong and they always had resistance. Checking out rn.

EDIT: tested right now and vindicator is able to dodge while immobilized

Edited October 23, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Loboling.5293]

10 hours ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Maybe vindicator should be able to dodge over wards.


I thought they were jumping really high?
Otherwise the dodge animation is totally pointless at this point, misleading and not even unique after changing it from one dodge to the standard of two dodges. Specially after the continuous nerfs to the only thing the class was good at.

The Vindicator dodge works a bit like buggy's fruit the Bara Bara no mi. Basically, his feet stay on the ground...😂

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Now that's a good question, maybe I got it all wrong and they always had resistance. Checking out rn.

EDIT: tested right now and vindicator is able to dodge while immobilized

 

Got it. This might be an oversight/bug then? Double tap dodge doesn't, but keybound dodge does due to it not being a movement skill.

 

If they wanna break immob vindis can take Riposting Shadows or Aggressive Agility. I don't think they need vindi ignoring it by default on dodge on top of that.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[phokus.8934]

On 10/22/2022 at 8:30 PM, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Maybe vindicator should be able to dodge over wards.


I thought they were jumping really high?
Otherwise the dodge animation is totally pointless at this point, misleading and not even unique after changing it from one dodge to the standard of two dodges. Specially after the continuous nerfs to the only thing the class was good at.

Vindicator dodge does put the character at a slightly different z axis.  In Colosseum, you can dodge to the middle from one of the side openings but running up against the wall and dodging.  It'll put you on the otherside to mid.

[NotFound.7813]

On 10/20/2022 at 12:32 AM, Raknar.4735 said:

Mirage cloak is an effect that evades. It is an evasion. It's closer to Blur, if anything.

 

The in-game description says it replaces dodge rolling.

We're not only talking about mirage cloak, you've just been moving away from your initial statement about Mesmers not dodging or evading, as you've noticed your statements were wrong. The traits clearly state that the mesmer is dodging &/or evading.

Your 3 statements are wrong, proven by the aforementioned details about traits clearly describing Mesmer actions.

And again, the wiki is player written. Only the Vindicator's ingame description includes "Instead of dodging..".

The Mesmer one clearly states "gain mirage cloak instead of dodge rolling", as you and me have correctly cited multiple times. The act of dodging is still being performed by the Mesmer, as Elusive Mind wouldn't work if it wasn't.

Dodge is an evasion but not all evasions are dodges. Elusive mi

 

On 10/20/2022 at 12:32 AM, Raknar.4735 said:

Mirage cloak is an effect that evades. It is an evasion. It's closer to Blur, if anything.

 

The in-game description says it replaces dodge rolling.

We're not only talking about mirage cloak, you've just been moving away from your initial statement about Mesmers not dodging or evading, as you've noticed your statements were wrong. The traits clearly state that the mesmer is dodging &/or evading.

Your 3 statements are wrong, proven by the aforementioned details about traits clearly describing Mesmer actions.

And again, the wiki is player written. Only the Vindicator's ingame description includes "Instead of dodging..".

The Mesmer one clearly states "gain mirage cloak instead of dodge rolling", as you and me have correctly cited multiple times. The act of dodging is still being performed by the Mesmer, as Elusive Mind wouldn't work if it wasn't.

Dodge is an evade but not all evades are dodges. Dodging implies a momenent to evade. Elusive mind does evade but doesnt dodge since you gain a distortion like effect wich doesnt implies any kind of movement. Vindi dodge moves the player vertically so it is indeed a dodge. 

 

 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Back to this topic just to inform @Cal Cohen.2358 that, were he to send me some address where to find him, I'd gladly send a Just Eat with some pizza at his location for removing vindicator's ability to dodge while immobilized.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

28 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Back to this topic just to inform @Cal Cohen.2358 that, were he to send me some address where to find him, I'd gladly send a Just Eat with some pizza at his location for removing vindicator's ability to dodge while immobilized.

Now they just need to do the same with Mirage dodge while stunned and restore 2 dodges

[Eugchriss.2046]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Back to this topic just to inform @Cal Cohen.2358 that, were he to send me some address where to find him, I'd gladly send a Just Eat with some pizza at his location for removing vindicator's ability to dodge while immobilized.

please don't forget to tell him to move signet of illusion from utility skills to elite skills and to increase the cooldown so that it matches renewed focus on guard. I mean they both do the same thing : recharge every F-skills. It looks like a double standand if you ask me....

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1 hour ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

please don't forget to tell him to move signet of illusion from utility skills to elite skills and to increase the cooldown so that it matches renewed focus on guard. I mean they both do the same thing : recharge every F-skills. It looks like a double standand if you ask me....

RF is a 3s invuln

[CutesySylveon.8290]

9 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

RF is a 3s invuln

That can't be used while CC'd and can't cast other skills during. Distortion alone trounces RF so hard it's hardly comparable. 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

9 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

 

Double post because mobile. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by CutesySylveon.8290

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

5 hours ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

That can't be used while CC'd and can't cast other skills during. Distortion alone trounces RF so hard it's hardly comparable. 

Distortion isn't part of the utility. That said I probably wouldn't be opposed to a signet nerf but your comparison is bad.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

20 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Distortion isn't part of the utility. That said I probably wouldn't be opposed to a signet nerf but your comparison is bad.

RF restores Virtues and is an invuln.

Illusion signet restores shatters, one of which being distortion, which is an invuln and part of the utility.

 

Just because RF has the invuln up front doesn't change the fact that these things function almost identically.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

20 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

 

Second double post. Rip.

Edited November 13, 2022 by CutesySylveon.8290

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1 hour ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

RF restores Virtues and is an invuln.

Illusion signet restores shatters, one of which being distortion, which is an invuln and part of the utility.

 

Just because RF has the invuln up front doesn't change the fact that these things function almost identically.

No, dist is to be compared to guard f3

[Animism.7530]

Is there really a 3-page discussion over whether an evade is a dodge, and certain dodges gain unnecessary advantages? 

Crikey... 

[Eugchriss.2046]

2 hours ago, Animism.7530 said:

Is there really a 3-page discussion over whether an evade is a dodge, and certain dodges gain unnecessary advantages? 

Crikey... 

Yes because when you re designing/balancing a huge beast like a MMO, these "small" details are actually important and do make the difference.

Btw you just prove why this kind of discussions are important: An evade is not NECESSARILY a dodge but a dodge IS an evade. A planet is not necessarily earth but earth IS a planet.