Voice Packs

[Vyr.9387]

Was going to just make a suggestion for the new directors to update the ancient, in some cases rather ill-fitting lines, but...
What would you say to complete Voice Packs for the commander?

A great measure of immersion, I dare say, correlates to the voice acting of all involved characters.
Yet, outside of instanced storylines, the most any players hears of is, arguably, their own character's battle-crying and crying in battle, which, more often than not, is kept relatively neutral to cast a wider net, since - even though it's not exactly inspiring - it also has a very low chance of turning a person off and out of the story.

SHIKASHI.

I'm a man who unapologetically proudly enjoys passion - which is not to say everything has to be yelled; raised voice is a tool applicable to many different situations in many different ways - but everybody deserves Jennifer Hale's "INFERNO!" and/or "I'LL DESTROY YOU ALL!" in their lives.

As such, with all the beautiful new direction the writing and voice acting is taking since... well, pretty much since S1, what if there were themed voice packs that would alter the commander's lines in these various ways?

Let's stay within the warrior realms.
Option I: "I'LL DESTROY YOU ALL!" - exactly in the same style as Hale's adrenaline-raising Berserking, only everywhere, especially on, y'know, SHOUTS (although the sylvari commandess is probably the least guilty of skills literally called "shouts!" sounding like a ball of wet toilet paper hitting a wall)

Option II: "I'll. Kill. You. All." - driven, commanding, unrelenting, seething with silent, calculated hatred, with perhaps an aura of nobility, akin to Swain's themes from Runeterra

Option III: "Threats, threats, threats... Let's dance already!" - again borrowing League's champions, Samira fits this particular smokin' sexy style impeccably well: sassy, confident, passionate, and enjoying what she's doing to the last - no matter what she's doing, or whom is she doing it for

Option IV: "I'll kill you all if I must." - the caring, concerned, but determined leader who simply can't find any joy within war of any kind, but will do her best to protect those dear to her, best illustrated (off the top of my head) by our own chief officer Shashoo during Verdant Brink's diurnal north-western meta chain


Now let's address the elephant in the room.
It's well-known that voice acting is ridiculously harsh on money, especially the wondrous quality stuff we're getting from ANet and the cast, I would assume.
(Even though I'm looking through DOTA and Starcraft announcer packs, which... are honestly weirdly cheap; no idea if it's an entirely different ecosystem, or simply my overblown appreciation for proficient liars.)
Although I can only hope they're adequately compensated for their magnificent work, in light of what happened to Bayonetta's voice actress. Let's say they are, and it really is as expensive as Build "Templates".
The counter-argument to this could be that, as always, we have no idea how much it would really cost, but mainly that not remaking the entire story shouldn't be that bad.
I certainly don't have the count of lines for open world shenanigans - which isn't just skills, but also level-ups, getting boons, conditions, loot, etc. - but, regardless, the vast majority is undoubtedly in the story, which wouldn't concern this particular feature. Yes, the commander/-ess will sound differently, maybe - hopefully - even very much so to their official counterpart, but try listening to yourself while doing something you enjoy, and then to something you don't enjoy, or talking to a person you like, and another one who's not so high on the friendlist. Unless you are purposefully forcing it - by "hand" or by mindful training - our voices change wildly throughout the day depending on a wide variety of factors, and passion of any kind certainly does wonders to how we sound.
Or we can simply say that the player character is obviously cognizant of their public role, and that's why they're keeping a straight face when talking official business.

Another issues could be people being used to their (and other people's) characters' voice lines not only for immersion, but also for gameplay.
This, I think, would be "easily" solvable by a toggle option for "standardized voices", just like visuals are, which would always play the default ones.

And, naturally, "bruh, who plays MMOs with sounds on".
That is exactly the reason for this whole topic.
I have absolutely no idea how many people would be interested in this, even out of those who do listen to Tyria sing.
That's why the poll.
Go wild!

Edited October 21, 2022 by Vyr.9387
Devil in the details' formatting.

[Randulf.7614]

I have no issue with the idea, but it won’t ever happen. That’s a huge amount of recording to be added even for one new per race, per gender. To add in multiple for each at this stage and pay additional VAs, spend time on editing, directing and implementing… I think  it’s a non starter. You couldn’t just do the ambient stuff, it would need to be everything in story. That’s an incredible amount of backdated work.

Would I theoretically pay? Potentially. The sylvari male voice does not match either of my sylvari male characters, so that would be a tempter if one matched. I’m used to the others that I wouldn’t change them - esp human male voice which I’m happy with.

[Vyr.9387]

16 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

You couldn’t just do the ambient stuff, it would need to be everything in story.

I was thinking only about the ambience precisely because all of the old stuff would both cost a fortune and if you're re-recording that, might as well write it properly, too, which, naturally, makes it that much worse, because why not make a brand new expansion and/or a whole game out of that.

Why would it be necessary to go all-in?

[Linken.6345]

4 minutes ago, Vyr.9387 said:

I was thinking only about the ambience precisely because all of the old stuff would both cost a fortune and if you're re-recording that, might as well write it properly, too, which, naturally, makes it that much worse, because why not make a brand new expansion and/or a whole game out of that.

Why would it be necessary to go all-in?

Would people not feel a disconnect if their character sounded differently in story vs utility skills?

[Randulf.7614]

It would be jarring for players and minimalise the appeal to buy. Yes it would be optional knowing what they’d get, but I can’t see many players buying a half hearted implementation and recouping high VA and recording costs

Anet themselves would never do it half hearted in this way. I know we give them flack sometimes, but even they’d know this was an all or nothing thing. You can’t have a different voice for different situations in a character driven rpg. It’s unthinkable for the writers to choose such a route.

Theres also potential issues for VAs. Having half their lines recorded by another and intermixed with their own may cause conflicts.

It has to be all or nothing. There’s no sensible, workable scenario to do it any other way.

[Vyr.9387]

13 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Would people not feel a disconnect if their character sounded differently in story vs utility skills?

 

11 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

It would be jarring for players and minimalise the appeal to buy.

 

2 hours ago, Vyr.9387 said:

...
Yes, the commander/-ess will sound differently, maybe - hopefully - even very much so to their official counterpart, but try listening to yourself while doing something you enjoy, and then to something you don't enjoy, or talking to a person you like, and another one who's not so high on the friendlist. Unless you are purposefully forcing it - by "hand" or by mindful training - our voices change wildly throughout the day depending on a wide variety of factors, and passion of any kind certainly does wonders to how we sound.
Or we can simply say that the player character is obviously cognizant of their public role, and that's why they're keeping a straight face when talking official business.
...

The second part is just a rationalization, but what's wrong with the first one?
The voice cast certainly is capable of some beautifully impressive things - like Queen Jennah talking to the sylvari commandess (although their laughter, one shortly after another, do betray her) - but why would they forcefully choose to sound different from the main character they're voicing?

I keep using Jennifer Hale as an example, but listen to a female sylvari Tempest screaming "INFERNO!" during Fire Overload, or a Berserker go "I'LL DESTROY YOU ALL!" which I've mentioned earlier.
There's no precedent in any of the story for the player character to be that much angry at any point whatsoever.

When Mara Junot took over the role of the charr commandess after Kate Miller, was there an apocalypse of angry posts and people jumping off buildings in boycotts?
Genuinely asking, hadn't been around the forums much at that time. I think.
She does sound a bit different on the EoD battle-cries, but that's two different people. Not a single one undoing their shirt a breath  more, or putting on a hoodie and brooding in a corner.

I'm not suggesting getting completely new cast.
I'm suggesting having a couple of words with the current cast, solely for the ambience, in a more passionate manner, like being pissed or sassy or whatever feels right to both the actors/actresses and the writers.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Anet themselves would never do it half hearted in this way. I know we give them flack sometimes, but even they’d know this was an all or nothing thing. You can’t have a different voice for different situations in a character driven rpg. It’s unthinkable for the writers to choose such a route.

Theres also potential issues for VAs. Having half their lines recorded by another and intermixed with their own may cause conflicts.

It has to be all or nothing. There’s no sensible, workable scenario to do it any other way.

If this still stands after the explanation above, I'd argue that different voice inflections and generally showing some emotion during fights would bring the characters much more to life, but since, as I've mentioned in the original post, we don't want to force people away, the current, neutral way should remain the default, while the voice pack with the theme of choice would be Gem'd, as any other cosmetic.

But I think there was a misunderstanding, reading the underlined part.

[Randulf.7614]

There was certainly a reaction when any VA has been changed in the game. Including marjorie, Rox, Canach and the female commander. Apocalyptic boycotting? No, but certainly plenty of reactions - esp over Canach and the commander changes. 

Ultimately, changing just some of the VA scripts via a pack is pretty much an option I think they should - and believe would from an artistic integrity pov - avoid.

I am in favour of full voice packs, but I think the ship has long since sailed there

[Gehenna.3625]

Forgive me for asking but what exactly is a voice pack? It seems this relates to voice acting but I'm not sure what a "pack" is in that sense.

[Randulf.7614]

Just now, Gehenna.3625 said:

Forgive me for asking but what exactly is a voice pack? It seems this relates to voice acting but I'm not sure what a "pack" is in that sense.

Essentially you buy a change of voice for your character. Usually that would suggest a whole new actor for every line in the game for your commander, but the suggestion in the op is to change just the skill and utility shouts.

A pack would indicate it being multiple voice choices bundled together for a given race/gender which you would purchase from the store. 

[Gehenna.3625]

2 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Essentially you buy a change of voice for your character. Usually that would suggest a whole new actor for every line in the game for your commander, but the suggestion in the op is to change just the skill and utility shouts.

A pack would indicate it being multiple voice choices bundled together for a given race/gender which you would purchase from the store. 

Yeah I don't think that will happen, though I would buy it for the female human voice. That voice always sounded a bit well, let's leave it as I don't really care for it. But that's besides the point, cause I would put money on Anet not doing that. 

[Vyr.9387]

32 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Forgive me for asking but what exactly is a voice pack? It seems this relates to voice acting but I'm not sure what a "pack" is in that sense.

Roughly what Randulf said, although I meant it as the original voice actor/actress putting personality into the skills/loots/anything-except-story, as opposed to the mostly grey shades we have now.

So it would be April Stewart as the human commandess by default (the current iteration), and the Gem-bought Voice Pack would unlock (or whatever the final implementation would be) a cold-hearted maniac voiceover theme, or a full-on seductress theme, or whichever way would ANet and April herself want to go.

Meaning NOT getting Denise Gough to remake the skills, with April's lines staying for the story. Of course that would sound ridiculous. But that's apparently where I managed to lose ser Randulf.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Vyr.9387
d =/= g

[Omega.6801]

No.

[Vyr.9387]

1 minute ago, lokh.2695 said:

No.

'Kay.

[Gehenna.3625]

2 minutes ago, Vyr.9387 said:

Roughly what Randulf said, although I meant it as the original voice actor/actress putting personality into the skills/loots/anything-except-story, as opposed to the mostly grey shades we have now.

So it would be April Stewart as the human commandess by default (the current iteration), and the Gem-bought Voice Pack would unlock (or whatever the final implementation would be) a cold-hearted maniac voiceover theme, or a full-on seductress theme, or whichever way would ANet and April herself want to go.

Meaning NOT getting Denise Gough to remake the skills, with April's lines staying for the story. Of course that would sound ridiculous. But that's apparently where I managed to lose ser Randulf.

Well I remember this from single-player rpg's, so I think I get where you're going with this. I think though that VA's do have to be paid and to redo all the lines for all 10 voices would end up being horribly expensive. I mean they would have to pay those actors for every single version as well. 

I just don't think it's realistic.

[Super Hayes.6890]

Liam Neeson please. Also, Kevin Hart and Christopher Walken...

[Randulf.7614]

If you then start having the same actor have different versions, then we run into more issues

The big one is why? I’m not seeing any appeal in changing the flavour text within the same voice. The next issue is where you draw the line. Are we talking about rephrasing things like “for great justice!”? Because tying that line to that skill is important for the team as an identifying cue. If we are talking about reflavouring that line, then again - why bother?

It all comes back to what are you trying to achieve. I understand options for the commanders voice. Yes there is expense and resource management which makes it an insurmountable barrier, but the idea at least works. Just chopping up new flavoured dialogues is just messy and ultimately achieves very little no matter who voices it

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I think a voice pack would be overkill, just give players the ability to modulate the pitch of all their voice lines by -/+10% and you'll see alot more customisation options without much effort.

[Gehenna.3625]

3 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

I think a voice pack would be overkill, just give players the ability to modulate the pitch of all their voice lines by -/+10% and you'll see alot more customisation options without much effort.

Oh yeah, I'd like my characters to sound like they just inhaled helium...that'd be awesome!!!

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

1 minute ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Oh yeah, I'd like my characters to sound like they just inhaled helium...that'd be awesome!!!

Well it'd have to be much higher than 10% to achieve that effect.

[Gehenna.3625]

Just now, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Well it'd have to be much higher than 10% to achieve that effect.

sadface 

[Randulf.7614]

5 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

sadface 

It’s fine, just crank it up to 11 (%)

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Super Hayes.6890 said:

Liam Neeson please. Also, Kevin Hart and Christopher Walken...

Bart Simpson

Pee Wee Herman

Barney

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, Super Hayes.6890 said:

Liam Neeson please. Also, Kevin Hart and Christopher Walken...

 

17 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Bart Simpson

Pee Wee Herman

Barney

Peter Cullen and Frank Welker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd0-_zyhotg

 

[Vyr.9387]

33 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well I remember this from single-player rpg's, so I think I get where you're going with this. I think though that VA's do have to be paid and to redo all the lines for all 10 voices would end up being horribly expensive. I mean they would have to pay those actors for every single version as well. 

I just don't think it's realistic.

Might very well be.
Said in the initial post that I've got no idea how many lines there are outside of the story stuff, but every investment is made with profit in mind, yes?
Then you look at the poll, and even though 19 isn't exactly a sample size worthy of a game of these proportions, only 3 people are wholeheartedly up for the idea. Not exactly a promise of a golden age incoming so far.


 

36 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

If you then start having the same actor have different versions, then we run into more issues

The big one is why? I’m not seeing any appeal in changing the flavour text within the same voice. The next issue is where you draw the line. Are we talking about rephrasing things like “for great justice!”? Because tying that line to that skill is important for the team as an identifying cue. If we are talking about reflavouring that line, then again - why bother?

It all comes back to what are you trying to achieve. I understand options for the commanders voice. Yes there is expense and resource management which makes it an insurmountable barrier, but the idea at least works. Just chopping up new flavoured dialogues is just messy and ultimately achieves very little no matter who voices it

Why change or add anything at any point?
Status quo has arguably killed more people throughout the human history than any disaster, religion, and illness combined. Buy something You've never tried today, just to spite the universe's entropic tendencies.

Haven't been through every single line, but I don't think I'd rephrase anything.
Well, save for "FGJ!" itself, because I've heard a lot of people, carbon- or pixel-based, battle-crying a lot of stuff, but "for great justice" takes the cake as one of the worst among them. It's like the Pepegasucks "griffon" abomination skin - "gimme all, just not too much, but all, but not too much!"
On the other hand, every time I play with more people than alone, the battle-cries all sound pretty randomly queued - some don't go through at all, some apparently don't want to repeat the same race/sex/class combo... it all comes across as way too clean for how many people should be shouting one over the other 24/7. But maybe there is rhyme and reason to it, and I just haven't noticed it yet.
Regardless, you can sound threatening while reading a cooking recipe, or calm a crying child by telling them how much life's going to hurt. Yes, the words can make a mountain of difference, but the human voice is so versatile, especially if trained and skillfully wielded, and we're so proficient at reading into its details - be they true or not - that it's possible to turn people on by reading Yellow Pages.

My end goal with this is better immersion, for the most part. Variety via self-expression would be the second largest piece of the diagram.
Always been way too keen on the tiny details when it comes to people, and the manner of speech a person employs is certainly nothing miniscule at all.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

I think a voice pack would be overkill, just give players the ability to modulate the pitch of all their voice lines by -/+10% and you'll see alot more customisation options without much effort.

Black Desert has this particular feature, alongside quite a lot of voice presets (although it has to be said all of those are just grunts and moans, not a single word spoken), and it gets very obvious very quickly where the voice starts sounding artificially distorted.
'Till that point, though... Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I like it. Not exactly high on personality, but certainly looking like a stone that caused an avalanche; the elegance is appreciated.

 

 

6 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

 

Peter Cullen and Frank Welker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd0-_zyhotg

 

That's kitten magnificent.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Back when Phantasy Star Universe was a thing, while designing your character you had the option of 10 different voice sets for each sex/race combination.  Combined with that was a pitch and speed adjuster which let you change how high or low the voice was.  The former isn't feasible for a lot of games, but I've always wondered why more games don't give us pitch control over our character's voices.