Rifle please.

[captrowdy.9561]

Warrior is getting some love that’s cool I think it was decent before but anyway please do something with rifle. Engis got rifle buffed and it’s basically a rocket machine gun. Warrior is fun but we have no range. I’m not saying we should be meta at range but at least an option. 

[Karagee.6830]

if engis got a machine gun then Warriors need a bazooka.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

if engis got a machine gun then Warriors need a bazooka.

Shotgun is more likely

[oscuro.9720]

12 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

if engis got a machine gun then Warriors need a bazooka.

Give Warrior the hip fire animation, then have the projectiles be howitzer shells instead of regular bullets. 
Give it the full howitzer treatment! Exploding on contact for aoe damage, barrage style howitzer bombardment. It seems very Warrior to show up to a gun fight carrying an artillery weapon

[eXruina.4956]

and please give it BIG PP damage. 💥

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

and please give it BIG PP damage. 💥

On more than F1 and volley.

[Tycura.1982]

S H O T G U N

H

O

T

G

U

N

 

Imagine a ranged weapon that functioned well with the melee oriented class. What an outlandish idea. 

Rifle 4 forward dodge, no cast delay, 1 second evasion. 450 range. Thanks.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Tycura.1982

[Fueki.4753]

Arenanet definitely needs to bring Warrior's Rifle's damage up to Ranger's Longbow's damage, or bring literally every ranged weapon's damage down to Warrior's Rifle's damage.

Warrior doesn't bring anything to groups that others don't do far better anyway and our unique contributions got annihilated, so we should at least be at the top for damage.

It's off-topic, but when I read the thread title, my mind read it with the voice of Kamen Rider Wizard's belt.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Caiden.9074]

Rifle is my favourite weapon fantasy in this game. I enjoyed Warrior for a while but went to Engineer.

If they buff it, I'll come back to Warrior. But for now I shall pine for it from afar.

[oscuro.9720]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Arenanet definitely needs to bring Warrior's Rifle's damage up to Ranger's Longbow's damage, or bring literally every ranged weapon's damage down to Warrior's Rifle's damage.

Warrior doesn't bring anything to groups that others don't do far better anyway and our unique contributions got annihilated, so we should at least be at the top for damage.

It's off-topic, but when I read the thread title, my mind read it with the voice of Kamen Rider Wizard's belt.

Some numbers comparing the two;

 

Rifle AA coeff/cast: .403/.98 = .411

longbow AA min coeff/cast: .466/1 = .466

longbow AA max coeff/cast: .6/1 = .6

longbow AA avg coeff/cast: .533/1 = .533

 

The min damage, close range version of ranger longbow auto outdamages rifle auto attack by 13.38%. The maximum ranger longbow auto outdamages rifle by 45.9%. The average damage of the min and max of ranger AA outdamages rifle AA by 29.6%. 
 

Volley coeff/cast: 2.5/2.5 = 1

Rapid Fire coeff/cast: 2.75/2.5 = 1.1

 

Its worth noting that volley has 2 charges, so it can technically be pulled out over a 5 second period instead of 2.5 seconds, which is certainly advantageous. However Rapid Fire applies high vuln stacks. 
 

On a damage basis, it seems rifle lags behind by about 10-15% relative to ranger longbow. 

[Fueki.4753]

26 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Some numbers comparing the two;

 

Rifle AA coeff/cast: .403/.98 = .411

longbow AA min coeff/cast: .466/1 = .466

longbow AA max coeff/cast: .6/1 = .6

longbow AA avg coeff/cast: .533/1 = .533

 

The min damage, close range version of ranger longbow auto outdamages rifle auto attack by 13.38%. The maximum ranger longbow auto outdamages rifle by 45.9%. The average damage of the min and max of ranger AA outdamages rifle AA by 29.6%. 
 

Volley coeff/cast: 2.5/2.5 = 1

Rapid Fire coeff/cast: 2.75/2.5 = 1.1

 

Its worth noting that volley has 2 charges, so it can technically be pulled out over a 5 second period instead of 2.5 seconds, which is certainly advantageous. However Rapid Fire applies high vuln stacks. 
 

On a damage basis, it seems rifle lags behind by about 10-15% relative to ranger longbow. 

Warrior's Rifle is also much slower and hast 20% less range.

Raw damage numbers and the lack of Vulnerability aren't the only things that make it worse than Ranger's Longbow.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[oscuro.9720]

5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Warrior's Rifle is also much slower and hast 20% less range.

Raw damage numbers and the lack of Vulnerability aren't the only things that make it worse than Ranger's Longbow.

Based on cast times, it’s actually not much slower (in fact it’s nearly identical). Personally, I think some of the really big differences are;

1. Stealth access on ranger longbow

2. Ranged knock back on ranger longbow compared to melee-range knock back on warrior. 

3. Lower average cooldown on ranger LB utility.

4. utility via profession mechanic allows ranger (specifically soulbeast) to have more utility while using their ranged weapon, on top of having superior kit utility and damage.

5. Ranger longbow has superior trait modifications.

Just my opinions though. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by oscuro.9720

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

I would argue that Warrior's Rifle has little synergy with our traits outside some specific ones. It's a weapon that it's pigeonholed into either a bursty playstyle, requiring use of Kill Shot, and as anyone who plays Sword knows, selfrooting in this powercrept game is a big no-no, or it's a supportive playstyle that is mostly supported by specific traits that are better used with other weapons, and while the Rifle can provide some, it's still clunky. You become this sort of supportive-DPS that defines a kill target. It's fun, but it's really not something the weapon should be forced into.

A big issue, the way i see, is the need for Signet Mastery since you NEED the unblockable, and the need for Berserker's Power if you're rolling damage, which forces you into spamming Kill Shot. The weapon is also extremely weak for a single target weapon, and Crack Shot is not a good enough trait.

Here's my proposed rework:

Apply Crack Shot's 10% damage increase as baseline.

Kill Shot is usable while moving.

Rework Volley into "Sweeping Volley": "You sweep the area in front of you with a suppressive barrage of bullets, causing damage." The skill becomes a cone AoE similar to Blunderbuss, but instead as a chanelled 5x times damage to 5 enemies, 900 range skill.

Make Explosive Shell explode AROUND the target, not behind it.

Keep Brutal Shot as it is. Make Rifle Butt be a small ( REALLY SMALL ) leap to the target, just to help connect the skill to the enemy.

Crack Shot now increases the damage you deal to moviment-impaired targets ( Cripple/Immob/Slow/Chill ) by X%. Rifle skills get double the increase.

These are just ideas i had now. I like the Warrior Rifle's concept as more of a true rifle and not a shotgun ( That's the Engineer's thing ). I think honestly, the Warrior Rifle should be themed/conceptualized into a full blown Assault Rifle. Explosive Shell fits the grenade launch part, rifle butt is a tactical hit using your rifle as a melee, special forces-like, all we need is to make Volley and Kill Shot better.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Little synergy with traits?!
 

• Merciless Hammer
• Might Makes Right
• Mending Might
• Leg Specialist
• Opportunist
• Warrior's Sprint

All work with Rifle and is more than Axe does or Greatsword. Obviously, I left out weapon specific traits and burst traits, but FGS and Axe Mastery have parts that work with all weapons, whereas MH has a part that only works with CCs.

There is a great deal of synergy, it's just that parts of rifle suck so hard it is difficult to justify taking it despite all the synergies.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Little synergy with traits?!
 

• Merciless Hammer
• Might Makes Right
• Mending Might
• Leg Specialist
• Opportunist
• Warrior's Sprint

All work with Rifle and is more than Axe does or Greatsword. Obviously, I left out weapon specific traits and burst traits, but FGS and Axe Mastery have parts that work with all weapons, whereas MH has a part that only works with CCs.

There is a great deal of synergy, it's just that parts of rifle suck so hard it is difficult to justify taking it despite all the synergies.

Point taken, to an extent. Leg Specialist and Opportunist improve the weapon to usable status and they are fun traits, so you're right there ( which is why my proposed rework makes Crack Shot double down on dealing more damage to impaired targets, which i think should be a staple of the weapon ). MMR/MM on the slow auto of Rifle i would argue is worse than Axe/GS. The condition of needing to hit a vulnerable target, while mostly irrelevant is still a trade-off that shouldn't exist.  Also, am i missing something here? What's the synergy with Warrior's Sprint? Also, taking WS means you can't get Crack Shot ( not that it's that good ).

I think numbers wise, you do have synergies, but when you pair the weapons themselves with the traits, the other weapons do more with their synergies. It becomes a issue of quantity vs quality. Like, now that you mentioned, a Rifle with a might sigil and FGS would be fun to play, but i still think that's way less than what you can do with an Axe. The weapon is just not up to par for the synergies to make a difference, so i didn't consider them on my post and that's my bad.

On the Merciless Hammer synergy, that works but i think it's a really weak synergy. Still, my main point stands: I would rather have Rifle as a Assault weapon that gives us power AoE damage and decent single target, being a better overall weapon with wider application as a trade off to lose a little bit of single target damage. Also, giving a pass to outdated skills like Kill Shot can only benefit us.

Anyway, thanks for the correction ❤️

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

45 minutes ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

Point taken, to an extent. Leg Specialist and Opportunist improve the weapon to usable status and they are fun traits, so you're right there ( which is why my proposed rework makes Crack Shot double down on dealing more damage to impaired targets, which i think should be a staple of the weapon ). MMR/MM on the slow auto of Rifle i would argue is worse than Axe/GS. The condition of needing to hit a vulnerable target, while mostly irrelevant is still a trade-off that shouldn't exist.  Also, am i missing something here? What's the synergy with Warrior's Sprint? Also, taking WS means you can't get Crack Shot ( not that it's that good ).

I think numbers wise, you do have synergies, but when you pair the weapons themselves with the traits, the other weapons do more with their synergies. It becomes a issue of quantity vs quality. Like, now that you mentioned, a Rifle with a might sigil and FGS would be fun to play, but i still think that's way less than what you can do with an Axe. The weapon is just not up to par for the synergies to make a difference, so i didn't consider them on my post and that's my bad.

On the Merciless Hammer synergy, that works but i think it's a really weak synergy. Still, my main point stands: I would rather have Rifle as a Assault weapon that gives us power AoE damage and decent single target, being a better overall weapon with wider application as a trade off to lose a little bit of single target damage. Also, giving a pass to outdated skills like Kill Shot can only benefit us.

Anyway, thanks for the correction ❤️

WS works with rifle 4 believe it or not it just already clears immobilize. 

MH gives adrenaline per foe CCd, so rifle butt and Gunflame get a lot of value from it. 

[Shinja.3451]

For starters I would just increase the range to 1500 and remove everything anet did to him since he put the explosive shot and ammo in, it was just a horrible patch and took the warrior's rifle's initial target further away than it should have been.

The theme that the warrior has in the rifle was great and anet just seems to have dedicated himself to stepping on it and leaving it outdated, putting an explosive in the middle, leave the explosives for the engineers inexperienced in weapons and unable to aim for themselves, leave the cheap tricks to cowardly rangers and thieves and make the warrior feel like the one and only master of weapons, full of adrenaline that you sold us in the beginning.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

As a a rifle warrior main, I'd prefer anet don't touch rifle. They'll buff one aspec than overnerf others and the buffs won't equal the nerfs as usual. Worst yet, they might let us have a few months of fun and then nerf rifle as a whole. Warrior never gets the good stuff for long. It's not designed to.

Careful what you wish for.

[Jzaku.9765]

7 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

Also, taking WS means you can't get Crack Shot ( not that it's that good ).

Just wanted to say that Crack Shot is actually way better than it looks right now because it's bugged to make Volley give 2x Adrenaline on either Hit or Crit, haven't tested it fully. 

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

2 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Just wanted to say that Crack Shot is actually way better than it looks right now because it's bugged to make Volley give 2x Adrenaline on either Hit or Crit, haven't tested it fully. 

But that's not intended, and proof the trait ( and weapon ) needs love.

[Shinja.3451]

Possibly not designed for it, but with some discipline traits tweaked so that one increases range and another can deal with shields and reflexes, you'd be trading something for something, in which case you'd have the things the rifle needs in exchange for something without ruining anything... however the rifle itself is pretty bad anyway

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Just wanted to say that Crack Shot is actually way better than it looks right now because it's bugged to make Volley give 2x Adrenaline on either Hit or Crit, haven't tested it fully. 

Volley pierces, are you sure you didn't hit multiple targets?

[Jzaku.9765]

8 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Volley pierces, are you sure you didn't hit multiple targets?

I don't think the Golem training arena has multiple targets, no.

I tested further and it actually gives [Volley], [Brutal Shot] AND [Rifle Butt] 2x Adrenaline on hit. How nice! (It's still a trash trait but it makes Rifle Berserker not complete garbage to play in PVE)

Edited November 22, 2022 by Jzaku.9765

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

18 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

I don't think the Golem training arena has multiple targets, no.

I tested further and it actually gives [Volley], [Brutal Shot] AND [Rifle Butt] 2x Adrenaline on hit. How nice! (It's still a trash trait but it makes Rifle Berserker not complete garbage to play in PVE)

What were your other traits though?

[Jzaku.9765]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

What were your other traits though?

Are you unable to reproduce it? Going down a process of elimination of what I could possibly be doing wrong seems like significantly more effort than simply trying it yourself.