Chain CC is crap

[Sobx.1758]

11 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Okay I will play, you and the other saying L2P so instead of trolling people without any constructive answers why dont you explain how you handle being chain cc'd by a mass of different mobs? Im guessing you fly high above on your skyscale and avoid the mobs that are tightly clustered. How do you get through the ruptured heart, the darklands, the ruination and others in desolation while getting chained cc'd by the packs of forged patrols, the bola throwing forged soldiers, the officers , the forgerunners,  and then the  awakened aboms and canids the knock you into next week harpies. The problem is when you get into a fight and suddenly the rest of the area has agro onto you lol. So yeah soloing pof in many places on ground is a massive cc fest and you soon run out of breaks to get out of blinds stuns cripples knockbacks knockdowns with a dozen mobs on you. And skyscale dont count. 

Not sure I have a specific answer to your non-specific question where for some reason you've just opted out for listing some mobs in a package ("while getting chained cc'd by the packs of forged patrols, the bola throwing forged soldiers, the officers , the forgerunners,  and then the  awakened aboms and canids the knock you into next week harpies"). I can tell you though that beyond the short initial period of getting to know the new environment, mobs and their skills, I didn't have much of an issue with going through it in the first place. Added mobility along with dodges -from jackal mastery- packed into their respective skills is mostly enough to avoid whatever you want/need to avoid. Using terrain to your advantage and not blindly running in the middle of the mobs also helps. With later introduced mount skills, all of that got even easier than it was.

Getting into the fight isn't the problem as long as you don't start running around like a headless chicken, aggroing everything around for no good reason "because you've already set your mind to run from point A to B in the straight line no matter what and maybe you'll outrun those mobs on foot now".

Edited November 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Artemis.8034]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 

Getting into the fight isn't the problem as long as you don't start running around like a headless chicken, aggroing everything around for no good reason "because you've already set your mind to run from point A to B in the straight line no matter what and maybe you'll outrun those mobs on foot now"

Oh i dont have to run around , and no I dont point A to B thats what a skyscale is for. I dont run around like a headless chicken, im pretty cautious, but agro range is problematic is many areas, not to mention you get knocked back and they agro others, or that forgerunner zips over you and into another pack that says...oh hey Joe, whats up, an intruder? ! we got this!  Someday i want to group with you and see you ride on a ground mount around desolation, get into a nice heavy packed forge area and watch you handle it

[Sobx.1758]

11 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Oh i dont have to run around , and no I dont point A to B thats what a skyscale is for.

You said no skyscales (not that it needed to be said in the first place in this discussion, seems rather obvious) so obviously we're not talking about that.

11 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

I dont run around like a headless chicken, im pretty cautious, but agro range is problematic is many areas, not to mention you get knocked back and they agro others, or that forgerunner zips over you and into another pack that says...oh hey Joe, whats up, an intruder? ! we got this!  Someday i want to group with you and see you ride on a ground mount around desolation, get into a nice heavy packed forge area and watch you handle it

If you have trouble with explaining the actual places that somehow are so unbearable for you then maybe invite me ingame and show me or something? Because it doesn't seem we're getting anywhere here with these "oh yeah, this [mob name] totally keeps knocking me off the mount 24/7 and then aggroes 20 packs all over the map and they all perma cc me and there's nothing to do about it". I mean if that's something you're frequently getting into then improve at positioning, understanding ranges, timing your mount dodges and using LOS.

But here's another tip: if something ingame "gets you", use it to learn from your mistakes and avoid making the same ones next time 🤷‍♂️

Edited November 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Rovaeden.8546]

33 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Okay I will play, you and the other saying L2P so instead of trolling people without any constructive answers why dont you explain how you handle being chain cc'd by a mass of different mobs? Im guessing you fly high above on your skyscale and avoid the mobs that are tightly clustered. How do you get through the ruptured heart, the darklands, the ruination and others in desolation while getting chained cc'd by the packs of forged patrols, the bola throwing forged soldiers, the officers , the forgerunners,  and then the  awakened aboms and canids the knock you into next week harpies. The problem is when you get into a fight and suddenly the rest of the area has agro onto you lol. So yeah soloing pof in many places on ground is a massive cc fest and you soon run out of breaks to get out of blinds stuns cripples knockbacks knockdowns with a dozen mobs on you. And skyscale dont count. 

Hahaha Awesome!
My thoughts exactly.
I will wager that these L2P spamming... ahem.... lovely people, actually just run away from fights, or more likely just sit around in Divinities Reach trying to look cool and hoping someone will care, never mind dismounting and facing the content without a zerg to hide in.

 

[Rogue.8235]

3 minutes ago, Rovaeden.8546 said:

Hahaha Awesome!
My thoughts exactly.
I will wager that these L2P spamming... ahem.... lovely people, actually just run away from fights, or more likely just sit around in Divinities Reach trying to look cool and hoping someone will care, never mind dismounting and facing the content without a zerg to hide in.

 

See my previous post.

[Rovaeden.8546]

33 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Oh i dont have to run around , and no I dont point A to B thats what a skyscale is for. I dont run around like a headless chicken, im pretty cautious, but agro range is problematic is many areas, not to mention you get knocked back and they agro others, or that forgerunner zips over you and into another pack that says...oh hey Joe, whats up, an intruder? ! we got this!  Someday i want to group with you and see you ride on a ground mount around desolation, get into a nice heavy packed forge area and watch you handle it

To hell with a ground mount. I want to see these ... ahem, lovely people run, on foot from one end of a zone to the other and fight the engagements the entire way and NOT rage quit from the rampant and unnecessary CC deflating their oversized egos.

 

Its what I do. Run places. On foot. I love it. The diversity of encounters provide a constant and varied challenge and the combat is fun. The horrendous CC however, is not fun.

It is not skillful or challenging to have mobs that spam CC.
It is lazy design.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Rovaeden.8546

[Rovaeden.8546]

14 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

See my previous post.

I did. I read it. It's nicely written but not at all what I am talking about. I already do all of what you suggest. I played at launch and have Decade's Devotion even though I quit until about a month ago. 10 year birthday presents, with an empty mat storage.
Regardless, the game is much improved and I am enjoying now what I passionately hated back then.
However, the pve CC is still a problem. I have played virtually every other MMO there is and few of them have such egregious open-world CC spam as Guild Wars 2.

What you have said is just more of what I am BEING TOLD by the self proclaimed masters of reality, albeit in a nicer and more eloquent way. However, it is not at all what I am saying.

There is a distinct lack of reading comprehension going on. Everyone wants to TELL ME all the ways I am wrong, but no one has actually listened to what I have said, wherein I have fully explained the problem. Yeah, this requires that they read over various posts in the thread. Boo Hoo, I have. They can too.
It's called a conversation.
One cannot barge in at the end and demand that their opinion sans context is the one true path. Sorry, not how it works.

Not saying that you, Rogue, are doing this but others are for sure.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Rovaeden.8546

[Cyninja.2954]

Ah yes, the good old jump to insults and blame game. Far be it that the issue lie with ones self and listening or taking advice is obviously overrated.

 

Better show superiority by blaming everyone with a disagreeing opinion and automatically assuming inferiotrity because it must be impossible that others have overcome the challenges because the own ego won't allow it.

 

I guess this thread has run its course. Hopefully any inexperienced players with similar issues take some of the advice given to heart. You can lead horse to water but cou can't make it drink.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Rovaeden.8546]

Just now, Cyninja.2954 said:

Ah yes, the good old jump to insults and blame game. Far be it that the issue lie with ones self and listening or taking advice is obviously overrated.

 

Better show superiority by blaming everyone with a disagreeing opinion and automatically assuming inferiotrity because it must be impossible that others have overcome the challenges because the own ego won't allow it.

 

I guess this thread has run its course. Hopefully any inexperienced players with similar issues take some of the advice given to heart.

This is hilarious because of the irony.

 

You have apparently not read a single word I have said yet are quite content to sit there and tell me I don't know how to play.
Literally the definition of the people I am referring to.

[Cyninja.2954]

Just now, Rovaeden.8546 said:

This is hilarious because of the irony.

 

You have apparently not read a single word I have said yet are quite content to sit there and tell me I don't know how to play.
Literally the definition of the people I am referring to.

 

You are the ony here complaining and asking for help, or maybe you weren't asking but just venting only to then mock and insult players giving advice. Not me. 

[Rogue.8235]

3 minutes ago, Rovaeden.8546 said:

I did. I read it. It's nicely written but not at all what I am talking about.

What you have said is just more of what I am BEING TOLD by the self proclaimed masters of reality, albeit in a nicer and more eloquent way. However, it is not at all what I am saying.

There is a distinct lack of reading comprehension going on. Everyone wants to TELL ME all the ways I am wrong, but no one has actually listened to what I have said, wherein I have fully explained the problem. Yeah, this requires that they read over various posts in the thread. Boo Hoo, I have. They can too.
It's called a conversation.
One cannot barge in at the end and demand that their opinion sans context is the one true path. Sorry, not how it works.

Not saying that you, Rogue, are doing this but others are for sure.

 

 

I do read entire threads before posting, so forgive any misunderstandings on my part.

Essentially, there is a problem of too many attacks which have a CC component, which are executed rapidly.  The problem is the number of CC attacks and the quick timing of said attacks headed your way.

That is How I'm understanding the thread.

To this, I thought I addressed the issue with my first post.  Combat is about damage avoidance rather than killing as fast as possible.  Avoiding attacks means avoiding the CC.  By avoid I mean any means of damage mitigation.  This includes blocks, evades, invulnerability, blinds, CC (CC'd enemies can't hit you), and instant or near-instant mobility skills.  One of the first things I learned in beta was that simply moving avoids most damage.  Granted, this only works in the early stages of the core game, but it emphasizes that GW2 combat was vastly different than what I was used to.  Before then, games I played had combat mechanics where you were expected to be hit by attacks; thus, damage avoidance was not built into the combat system.  In GW2, players were never meant to win through health bar attrition.  The players that tried to outlast mobs blow-for-blow were the ones that struggled the most when the game was first released.

 

To further elaborate from my first post, open world builds must have balanced offense and defense.  For example, my warrior's hammer+mace/shield build is far from topping damage charts.  However, I can survive anything with it because I bring lots of damage mitigation.  I can block, dodge, and stun to avoid taking hits.  I've also been required to use the hammer burst skill to reposition, as in I don't use it to stun but to instantly move away from a danger area.  

My thief is equal parts damage and evade.  Evasion isn't spammed, but is a regular part of how I play through combat.  For attacks that still stun through evade, such as walls created by certain mobs or guardian ward lines, there's shadowsteps to instantly reposition, or general movement to shift the combat zone away from the warding fields.  An example of general movement is to shift angles of attacks to focus on the opposite side of the enemy, that way the warding fields are on the opposite side of my engagement zone.  

The other thing about active damage mitigation is that it infinitely scales.  A single evade can avoid all attacks in that instant.  Also, rather than positioning in a fight where I constantly need to evade non-stop, I position so that some of the mobs must move towards me to get their damage off. Moving mobs = not attacking mobs = no damage mitigation necessary to not be attacked.  

My rifle deadeye plays completely differently.  I use stealth and positioning as the sole methods of damage avoidance.  Essentially it's like real-life long-range marksman combat (shoot, move, shoot, move, etc.)  It is much harder to play as it requires forethought and pre-planning an engagement rather than being able to just engage on a whim with tools to avoid being hit.  On my rifle deadeye, I can't just mount attack into a mob of foes and be fine.  I have to move on the map with calculated intent and engage from advantageous positions that afford room for in-combat maneuvers.  It's a very different way to play the same character that I find enjoyable.

Every profession can play while mitigating incoming attacks.  They all do it differently.  For example, minionmasters mitigate attacks by having their minions be attacked instead.  That's part of what makes minionmaster one of the easiest ways to play the game.

 

Sorry for the lengthy exposition.  To recap, my understanding is there there are too many attacks with CC that are used too often, not necessarily by an individual enemy but by groups of enemies.  I believe I am addressing this, exactly.

 

[Rovaeden.8546]

5 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

I do read entire threads before posting, so forgive any misunderstandings on my part.

Essentially, there is a problem of too many attacks which have a CC component, which are executed rapidly.  The problem is the number of CC attacks and the quick timing of said attacks headed your way.

That is How I'm understanding the thread.

To this, I thought I addressed the issue with my first post.  Combat is about damage avoidance rather than killing as fast as possible.  Avoiding attacks means avoiding the CC.  By avoid I mean any means of damage mitigation.  This includes blocks, evades, invulnerability, blinds, CC (CC'd enemies can't hit you), and instant or near-instant mobility skills.  One of the first things I learned in beta was that simply moving avoids most damage.  Granted, this only works in the early stages of the core game, but it emphasizes that GW2 combat was vastly different than what I was used to.  Before then, games I played had combat mechanics where you were expected to be hit by attacks; thus, damage avoidance was not built into the combat system.  In GW2, players were never meant to win through health bar attrition.  The players that tried to outlast mobs blow-for-blow were the ones that struggled the most when the game was first released.

 

To further elaborate from my first post, open world builds must have balanced offense and defense.  For example, my warrior's hammer+mace/shield build is far from topping damage charts.  However, I can survive anything with it because I bring lots of damage mitigation.  I can block, dodge, and stun to avoid taking hits.  I've also been required to use the hammer burst skill to reposition, as in I don't use it to stun but to instantly move away from a danger area.  

My thief is equal parts damage and evade.  Evasion isn't spammed, but is a regular part of how I play through combat.  For attacks that still stun through evade, such as walls created by certain mobs or guardian ward lines, there's shadowsteps to instantly reposition, or general movement to shift the combat zone away from the warding fields.  An example of general movement is to shift angles of attacks to focus on the opposite side of the enemy, that way the warding fields are on the opposite side of my engagement zone.  

The other thing about active damage mitigation is that it infinitely scales.  A single evade can avoid all attacks in that instant.  Also, rather than positioning in a fight where I constantly need to evade non-stop, I position so that some of the mobs must move towards me to get their damage off. Moving mobs = not attacking mobs = no damage mitigation necessary to not be attacked.  

My rifle deadeye plays completely differently.  I use stealth and positioning as the sole methods of damage avoidance.  Essentially it's like real-life long-range marksman combat (shoot, move, shoot, move, etc.)  It is much harder to play as it requires forethought and pre-planning an engagement rather than being able to just engage on a whim with tools to avoid being hit.  On my rifle deadeye, I can't just mount attack into a mob of foes and be fine.  I have to move on the map with calculated intent and engage from advantageous positions that afford room for in-combat maneuvers.  It's a very different way to play the same character that I find enjoyable.

Every profession can play while mitigating incoming attacks.  They all do it differently.  For example, minionmasters mitigate attacks by having their minions be attacked instead.  That's part of what makes minionmaster one of the easiest ways to play the game.

 

Sorry for the lengthy exposition.  To recap, my understanding is there there are too many attacks with CC that are used too often, not necessarily by an individual enemy but by groups of enemies.  I believe I am addressing this, exactly.

 

This is great!
No need to apologize for the length. Unlike some others here, I am not intimidated by reading.

You mention health bar attrition, which is how I played this game at launch and I think the reason, well one of the reasons I hated it so much. It wasn't what I was used to and wasn't what I wanted.

It has clearly been toned down somewhat over the years. Mobs seem not to hit quite as hard as they did back then, which is nice.
I am definitely enjoying the style of combat now. I think I would still prefer a bit more passive mitigation (armor counting for more, passive or long term buffs, etc) as a padding for ping, age and slower reflexes, but that's just me. I can live without.

Generally, I do just fine against most content and am able to solo most silver and some gold mobs without too much difficulty if I play well.
That is what I expect and what I call good challenge and good design.
The mobs are enough of a threat that if I just stand toe to toe and go blow for blow with them I will lose, but if I use my characters tools fully I will triumph. Awesome! That is what a game should provide. Play well and triumph to claim your reward.

What rankles me is when I play well but the computer cheats in a fundamental, system level way that causes me to fail not just once but repeatedly on multiple attempts and for the same reason.

Chain CC in any game is just bad. It's bad design, it feels bad to receive. If it exists it needs to be fixed.

I dont even remember the specific encounter now, not that it should matter in the first place, but I have absolutely encountered impossible to overcome chain CC in the open world numerous times. I don't remember if it was PoF or HoT but regardless, it exists.

Talking fixes... rather than trying to hunt down a specific mob in a specific region, it would be a much more comprehensive fix to either

A) Remove mob CC abilities from PvE.

B) Place a hard cooldown on CC for all mobs that pull as a pack. IE. One uses CC, they are all put on cooldown.
C) Give players a breakbar after they use their Stunbreak.

So, it isn't that I don't appreciate your (and others) attempts to help me. I do.
However, it is highly irritating to be TOLD that your experience is invalid and that the game is fine.
This is patently false. There IS a problem that Anet should address.
Too much CC has been there since launch. I noticed it then and I notice it now. Too many mobs have too many CC abilities and our counters are paper thin. The fact that some mobs have abilities that outright ignore stability should be all the proof I need to mention that this is still a problem.

Telling me to learn to play, even if intended good-naturedly, is kinda arrogant, especially when that same person has not even bothered to ask me anything or apparently listen at all to what has been said. They only stride in as THE AUTHORITY ON ALL THINGS and tell me how I'm wrong.
Sorry, but no. Not gonna just sit here and take that.

As before, I am not saying that you, Rogue, are guilty of this, just simply that this is the reason for my defensiveness in some of my responses.

I like your post, you make some good, thoughtful points.
Cheers.

[Rogue.8235]

8 minutes ago, Rovaeden.8546 said:

This is great!
No need to apologize for the length. Unlike some others here, I am not intimidated by reading.

You mention health bar attrition, which is how I played this game at launch and I think the reason, well one of the reasons I hated it so much. It wasn't what I was used to and wasn't what I wanted.

It has clearly been toned down somewhat over the years. Mobs seem not to hit quite as hard as they did back then, which is nice.
I am definitely enjoying the style of combat now. I think I would still prefer a bit more passive mitigation (armor counting for more, passive or long term buffs, etc) as a padding for ping, age and slower reflexes, but that's just me. I can live without.

Generally, I do just fine against most content and am able to solo most silver and some gold mobs without too much difficulty if I play well.
That is what I expect and what I call good challenge and good design.
The mobs are enough of a threat that if I just stand toe to toe and go blow for blow with them I will lose, but if I use my characters tools fully I will triumph. Awesome! That is what a game should provide. Play well and triumph to claim your reward.

What rankles me is when I play well but the computer cheats in a fundamental, system level way that causes me to fail not just once but repeatedly on multiple attempts and for the same reason.

Chain CC in any game is just bad. It's bad design, it feels bad to receive. If it exists it needs to be fixed.

I dont even remember the specific encounter now, not that it should matter in the first place, but I have absolutely encountered impossible to overcome chain CC in the open world numerous times. I don't remember if it was PoF or HoT but regardless, it exists.

Talking fixes... rather than trying to hunt down a specific mob in a specific region, it would be a much more comprehensive fix to either

A) Remove mob CC abilities from PvE.

B) Place a hard cooldown on CC for all mobs that pull as a pack. IE. One uses CC, they are all put on cooldown.
C) Give players a breakbar after they use their Stunbreak.

So, it isn't that I don't appreciate your (and others) attempts to help me. I do.
However, it is highly irritating to be TOLD that your experience is invalid and that the game is fine.
This is patently false. There IS a problem that Anet should address.
Too much CC has been there since launch. I noticed it then and I notice it now. Too many mobs have too many CC abilities and our counters are paper thin. The fact that some mobs have abilities that outright ignore stability should be all the proof I need to mention that this is still a problem.

Telling me to learn to play, even if intended good-naturedly, is kinda arrogant, especially when that same person has not even bothered to ask me anything or apparently listen at all to what has been said. They only stride in as THE AUTHORITY ON ALL THINGS and tell me how I'm wrong.
Sorry, but no. Not gonna just sit here and take that.

As before, I am not saying that you, Rogue, are guilty of this, just simply that this is the reason for my defensiveness in some of my responses.

I like your post, you make some good, thoughtful points.
Cheers.

 

Ah, got it.  It's not a ubiquitous problem.  It's a problem where, in those specific incidents where the enemy successfully locks you down with a chain of CC, it is incredibly frustrating.

I agree that, in that specific moment, it is frustrating to be locked down for extended periods.  Personally, my frustration is with myself, because I know I could have played it better and I made a mistake.  I get over it quickly and, again, that is just me.  Different people react differently, I hope we can all agree.    For such instances, I continuously engage the same enemies that are proving to be difficult until I can get a handle of the pacing of combat for that specific instance.  Other times, I mistimed the roaming over other nearby mobs, so I adjust for the future by being particularly attentive of the roaming enemies in those areas, and patiently wait to attack in the right moment.

As for the idea of implementing changes to the mechanics of the game, I personally disagree that passive defenses should be more prominent than they currently are.  My reasoning is simply that my preference is for active defenses.  So, emphasizing passive defenses isn't objectively wrong, it's merely a different preference.  

I'm going to bow out here because I don't really have anything further to add in a constructive manner.  I simply prefer active mitigation over passive and prefer the status quo in that regard.

 

[Rovaeden.8546]

5 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

Ah, got it.  It's not a ubiquitous problem.  It's a problem where, in those specific incidents where the enemy successfully locks you down with a chain of CC, it is incredibly frustrating.

I agree that, in that specific moment, it is frustrating to be locked down for extended periods.  Personally, my frustration is with myself, because I know I could have played it better and I made a mistake.  I get over it quickly and, again, that is just me.  Different people react differently, I hope we can all agree.    For such instances, I continuously engage the same enemies that are proving to be difficult until I can get a handle of the pacing of combat for that specific instance.  Other times, I mistimed the roaming over other nearby mobs, so I adjust for the future by being particularly attentive of the roaming enemies in those areas, and patiently wait to attack in the right moment.

As for the idea of implementing changes to the mechanics of the game, I personally disagree that passive defenses should be more prominent than they currently are.  My reasoning is simply that my preference is for active defenses.  So, emphasizing passive defenses isn't objectively wrong, it's merely a different preference.  

I'm going to bow out here because I don't really have anything further to add in a constructive manner.  I simply prefer active mitigation over passive and prefer the status quo in that regard.

 

My comment about mitigation was a side comment and not intended to derail the central point about CC.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

39 minutes ago, Rovaeden.8546 said:

This is great!
No need to apologize for the length. Unlike some others here, I am not intimidated by reading.

You mention health bar attrition, which is how I played this game at launch and I think the reason, well one of the reasons I hated it so much. It wasn't what I was used to and wasn't what I wanted.

It has clearly been toned down somewhat over the years. Mobs seem not to hit quite as hard as they did back then, which is nice.
I am definitely enjoying the style of combat now. I think I would still prefer a bit more passive mitigation (armor counting for more, passive or long term buffs, etc) as a padding for ping, age and slower reflexes, but that's just me. I can live without.

Generally, I do just fine against most content and am able to solo most silver and some gold mobs without too much difficulty if I play well.
That is what I expect and what I call good challenge and good design.
The mobs are enough of a threat that if I just stand toe to toe and go blow for blow with them I will lose, but if I use my characters tools fully I will triumph. Awesome! That is what a game should provide. Play well and triumph to claim your reward.

What rankles me is when I play well but the computer cheats in a fundamental, system level way that causes me to fail not just once but repeatedly on multiple attempts and for the same reason.

Chain CC in any game is just bad. It's bad design, it feels bad to receive. If it exists it needs to be fixed.

I dont even remember the specific encounter now, not that it should matter in the first place, but I have absolutely encountered impossible to overcome chain CC in the open world numerous times. I don't remember if it was PoF or HoT but regardless, it exists.

Talking fixes... rather than trying to hunt down a specific mob in a specific region, it would be a much more comprehensive fix to either

A) Remove mob CC abilities from PvE.

B) Place a hard cooldown on CC for all mobs that pull as a pack. IE. One uses CC, they are all put on cooldown.
C) Give players a breakbar after they use their Stunbreak.

So, it isn't that I don't appreciate your (and others) attempts to help me. I do.
However, it is highly irritating to be TOLD that your experience is invalid and that the game is fine.
This is patently false. There IS a problem that Anet should address.
Too much CC has been there since launch. I noticed it then and I notice it now. Too many mobs have too many CC abilities and our counters are paper thin. The fact that some mobs have abilities that outright ignore stability should be all the proof I need to mention that this is still a problem.

Telling me to learn to play, even if intended good-naturedly, is kinda arrogant, especially when that same person has not even bothered to ask me anything or apparently listen at all to what has been said. They only stride in as THE AUTHORITY ON ALL THINGS and tell me how I'm wrong.
Sorry, but no. Not gonna just sit here and take that.

As before, I am not saying that you, Rogue, are guilty of this, just simply that this is the reason for my defensiveness in some of my responses.

I like your post, you make some good, thoughtful points.
Cheers.

You're welcome to your opinion, but it's nothing more than that.  You insist there's a problem.  Others disagree.  

For my part, I find the combat is one of GW2's better features.  To me it feels good to use movement, positioning and timing to avoid punishing attacks and I find it works perfectly well in the vast majority of content.

[voltaicbore.8012]

TLDR; I don't think you're a terrible, unskilled player for being unhappy with chain cc from OW mobs, but I don't believe it rises to the extent of a problem that ANet must address. I resent your effort to broadly portray disagreement with you as elitism.

11 hours ago, Rovaeden.8546 said:

However, it is highly irritating to be TOLD that your experience is invalid and that the game is fine.
This is patently false. There IS a problem that Anet should address.

As a general matter of logic, it IS possible that someone's experience is invalid and that the game is, in fact, fine. I'm sure if you saw someone ranting here that "all ranged autoattacks should have 5000 range and be unblockable!!! Melee is scary and I die every time, game is too hard right now, ANet MUST fix" - you would probably agree with me that it's the complainer that needs to change, not the game.

So to me it's all just a matter of extent, when it comes to agreeing or disagreeing with various claims of "problems" with the game. It comes down to where your problem falls on the spectrum:

1. "this is dumb, nobody reasonable agrees with you" - an extreme end of the spectrum, this is where the silly autoattack rant would fall in my book.
2. "this could be an issue for some people, but not others" - where many complaints fall, and I'd put your chain cc issue in this very broad sector of the spectrum.
3. "this obviously needs fixing, everybody can agree things shouldn't be this way" - the other extreme end of the spectrum, where I'd place embarrassingly bugged content (the launch for the underwater skimmer mastery comes to mind). This is also where YOU think your chain cc problem is.

So really those of us (and yes, I include myself in this group) who disagree with you see this as a #2 problem. You think you have a #3 problem, and should anyone to dare disagree with you, you accuse us of claiming that you have a #1 problem.

I personally don't think chain cc is an issue, and that a very modest and reasonable adjustment can invalidate that combat issue entirely. Warrior is one of my least played classes, and at first I didn't know how to efficiently handle the chain cc threat on my outdated glass cannon builds when I took a warrior into PoF. What I discovered was that I was simply burning my panic buttons too early because I didn't have a good grasp of exactly what my build could tolerate. Once I knew what was coming and what I could handle, I got much better at timing my dodges and stunbreaks, and combining every dolyak signet stunbreak (which comes with 10 stacks of stability) with a significant reposition. On warrior, that means stunbreak+stability followed by greatsword 3 (reposition while evading) or bulls charge (singificant reposition with a bit less evade attached to it).

This was maybe... 20 minutes of gameplay? I'm not some super buildcrafting genius. I just know basic stuff like

• "hey stunbreaks are nice. Stunbreaks that give stability are even nicer."
• "Oh while I'm up, lemme just move away real fast so not everything keeps hitting me... oh nice a bunch of things allow me to move while evading at the same time."
• "After all that, I still have two dodge rolls left, nice."

None of that is rocket science. None of that requires any knowledge of the game beyond what the tooltips for your abilities tell you. None of this even requires any traits, passives, runes, sigils, or food buffs. This is all from the absolute shallowest level of information from the game, which is literally just what your ability buttons do when you press them. Nothing more. And guess what? No more chain cc ragdolling.

Other classes have it even easier. Core thief has one single button (shadowstep) that can solve all those problems. Core mesmer has one single button (blink) that solves all those problems. Core ranger also has one button (lighting reflexes) that combines stunbreak, immob cleanse, evade, and significant reposition. Core ele has its own version of blink, which is lightning flash. Core engineer has the ever-hilarious elixir S (stunbreak, invuln, get smol and run away) or can combine any other stunbreak with rocket boots or rifle #5 to invalidate any follow up cc. The list goes on - admittedly some classes (like core necro) don't work quite the same way as the ones I listed here, but are more than capable in their own way of handling the issue (like warr they might need to press 2-3 buttons instead of just one to get safe).

There are many very accessible tools (as I said, in many cases it's just one single button press) that combine stunbreak + reposition, which is all you generally need to invalidate the chain cc issues. Because of that, I don't think chain cc is a problem, and your opinion that chain cc IS such a problem seems to be a poorly founded one.

Edited November 28, 2022 by voltaicbore.8012

[disco.9302]

16 hours ago, Rovaeden.8546 said:

I deliberately left out specifics because then people focus in on those specifics as an excuse to dealing with the larger problem at hand, that being chain cc itself.

 

 

of course, that makes sense.... 

you: "I'm having trouble with a part of the game"

people in the tread: "where are you having trouble?"

you: "I'm not going to tell you, the game is the problem, not me"

[yoni.7015]

Just now, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Well i dont have to kill Soon-Won to understand that when a new person whines about cc-spamm , THE GOAL IS TO FIND THOSE UNFUN events and fix them 

No, this is not the goal. The problem here is not the game, it’s the player. 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

No, this is not the goal. The problem here is not the game, it’s the player. 

Yes truly is player issue , but not from this new guy 😛

[Yer.8096]

A lot of people likes to say things like "you can bring CC break wherever you want"... They probably play as warrior, necros or mesmers... haha.

The thing is: some professions have more hard control than you can break. Some professions have skills you CANNOT remove or almost impossible to predict. Like you being immobile when you are transformed into a moa. Or you being pulled by a dragonhunter for 1200 units right when he is finishing hunter's ward.

Sometimes, you don't have stun break for 3 hard control in one single skill, like mesmers (at least is an elite skill), harbinger or specter. Or condition cleanse enough when remove immobilize condition right on next tick and you receive another one. Or when you receive one or two fear inside a spectral ring. Or a warrior with a lot of control with almost no internal cooldown.

I think hard control fun on guild wars 2, but I also think is too much nowadays. Reducing them maybe isnt the best approach; but maybe some rework on some of them. A higher internal cooldown for root and spectral rings should be cool; being immune to hard and soft control when you are a moa; not being controlled by SAME skill after using a stun break on previous hit. Hunter's veridict pull like 300 units, not 1200 (that is too much). In my pov, that could be a healthy discussion and, probably, would make pvp better for a big portion of players.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Yer.8096

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

telling newer people it doesn't happen  and they assume he is lying

Nobody says getting cced doesn't happen, what is being said here though is that it is not a problem because it's an intended gameplay with rather clear ways of playing around it. (inb4 you completely misunderstand/mislabel what "playing around it" means btw 😄)

1 hour ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Well i dont have to kill Soon-Won

I don't see what this has to do with anything said here. Of course you don't have to kill soo won to know how the game works. But knowing how the game works certainly would help you with killing [whatever pve encounter you want to derail it into again for no relevant reason]. 🙄

1 hour ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

to understand that when a new person whines about cc-spamm , THE GOAL IS TO FIND THOSE UNFUN events and fix them , because those older content doesnt teach anything to new people , but cause a lot of frustation .

Content using certain mechanics does have a purpose and it's to make the player actions meaningful by encouraging them to understand and use game's mechanics instead of trying to bash through everything by pressing any key available while rushing into zergs of enemies. If that's what you want, try playing diablo or sth. If you fail at something in gw2, you should probably try understanding why you failed and what you can change to do better. That's about it and it's pretty much all this thread boils down to.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Yer.8096 said:

A lot of people likes to say things like "you can bring CC break wherever you want"... They probably play as warrior, necros or mesmers... haha.

The thing is: some professions have more hard control than you can break. Some professions have skills you CANNOT remove or almost impossible to predict. Like you being immobile when you are transformed into a moa. Or you being pulled by a dragonhunter for 1200 units right when he is finishing hunter's ward.

Sometimes, you don't have stun break for 3 hard control in one single skill, like mesmers (at least is an elite skill), harbinger or specter. Or condition cleanse enough when remove immobilize condition right on next tick and you receive another one. Or when you receive one or two fear inside a spectral ring. Or a warrior with a lot of control with almost no internal cooldown.

I think hard control fun on guild wars 2, but I also think is too much nowadays. Reducing them maybe isnt the best approach; but maybe some rework on some of them. A higher internal cooldown for root and spectral rings should be cool; being immune to hard and soft control when you are a moa; not being controlled by SAME skill after using a stun break on previous hit. Hunter's veridict pull like 300 units, not 1200 (that is too much). In my pov, that could be a healthy discussion and, probably, would make pvp better for a big portion of players.

 

I think you missed the part where this thread is about PvE and more specifically open world pve. 

 

Spvp and WvW are very different beasts but interaction between control between players was not the issue at hand and if it were then yes, things would be far more complicated. 

 

This thread is about dealing with AI or NPC imposed, aka predictable, control on players.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Yer.8096]

5 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

I think you missed the part where this thread is about PvE and more specifically open world pve. 

 

Spvp and WvW are very different beasts but interaction between control between players was not the issue at hand and if it were then yes, things would be far more complicated. 

 

This thread is about dealing with AI or NPC imposed, aka predictable, control on players.

 

Sorry to focused on PvP content... The thread have "This holds true in pve as well as other game modes." text. I supposed was all game modes we could talk about.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nobody says getting cced doesn't happen, what is being said here though is that it is not a problem because it's an intended gameplay with rather clear ways of playing around it. (inb4 you completely misunderstand/mislabel what "playing around it" means btw 😄)

I don't see what this has to do with anything said here. Of course you don't have to kill soo won to know how the game works. But knowing how the game works certainly would help you with killing [whatever pve encounter you want to derail it into again for no relevant reason]. 🙄

Content using certain mechanics does have a purpose and it's to make the player actions meaningful by encouraging them to understand and use game's mechanics instead of trying to bash through everything by pressing any key available while rushing into zergs of enemies. If that's what you want, try playing diablo or sth. If you fail at something in gw2, you should probably try understanding why you failed and what you can change to do better. That's about it and it's pretty much all this thread boils down to.

Yeah  , you can have that in instances this frustrating mechanics  and new player should avoid this frustartion. . They willfocus on the basic .

If  people(especially raidres) cannot understand the problem , don't type anything , its very simple

The goal is to undentifie + fix + bring up to current standards (visible + not stun-locked cc) SO NEW PEOPLE HAVE A EASY LEARNING CURVE , and not use the "toxic casuals coming in the forums and bad naming us"

Edited November 28, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[AliamRationem.5172]

54 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Yeah  , you can have that in instances this frustrating mechanics  and new player should avoid this frustartion. . They willfocus on the basic .

If  people(especially raidres) cannot understand the problem , don't type anything , its very simple

The goal is to undentifie + fix + bring up to current standards (visible + not stun-locked cc) SO NEW PEOPLE HAVE A EASY LEARNING CURVE , and not use the "toxic casuals coming in the forums and bad naming us"

It's a forum.  Everyone is within their rights to comment and to disagree with you.  Don't want to be called toxic?  Stop acting toxic.  Very simple.

In my opinion, the goal of the later game should never be to provide an easy learning curve for new players.  That's what the early game is for and I think there's a good argument to be made that it goes a little too far in that sense.  If you make the game too easy it becomes boring, which is a common criticism of the core gameplay. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by AliamRationem.5172