Rifle Scrapper after the patch......

[Jerus.4350]

3 hours ago, Jerus.4350 said:

Hammer was better still before this nerf.  Rifle is only best on builds that have no competition like core and mech (mace is a hybrid weapon not power focused like rifle).  Rifle scrapper could make sense in a few scenarios but mainly if you have to range, now you’ll just spam mortars, why can’t rifle be decent?  Their stated change was not a nerf but they slipped in some extra aftercast again.
 

Also, rifle is good on heal scrapper if you want to cover might better while sacrificing protection, which simply isn’t needed in a lot of scenarios (always nice though).

Gotta correct this.  They did add aftercast, however you can cancel said aftercast for either the same or more damage, in PVE.  Not sure how I feel about it, makes playing properly more important, but aftercast cancelling autos just doesn't sit right as an intended way to play.

[Jerus.4350]

double post

Edited November 30, 2022 by Jerus.4350

[Cuilan.7091]

I avoid this absolute mess of a forum because I enjoy having a sense of sanity in my discussions and this thread is just proving that point. Though just this night I would like for you guys to take some of my insight so you're not just blindly hating nor offering questionable suggestions.

 

Guild Wars 2 has three Game Modes, it isn't as easy to create mechanical skill splits like other games due to early philosphy and coding of the engine. So what the Devs can do is compromise where they can and allow for tuning of numerical changes when possible.

 

When Rifle was changed into a triple round burst by a now former developer (Who made Mech, you can guess who it was), we got a low-intesity build that was clearly over-powered and was for months. This was mainly on how many times Rifle actually fires.

 

So what other skill has the same rate of fire as Pre Change Rifle Burst? Dual Pistol Thief? Ranger Long Bow 2?  Both skills send a barrage of rounds and are a general pain point towards the casual audiance in PvP and WvW modes. Biggest difference that there is a Cooldown and downtime between casts, you have time to dodge or use mitigations tools to avoid partial, or even the full burst. Old Burst could continue its barrage at any point without issue.

 

Now lets look at On Proc effects, A typical Full DPS build in any mode would utilize Firearms and Explosives. With Old Burst effectively having a 3x chance of applying bleeds (More so with Shrapnel) consistent rocket / orbital procs, high vuln uptime, and a slew of other effects.

 

Pair both together and you have an easy to use, highly rewarding, AUTO ATTACK that done by one button. Reducing the overall spam of these 1200 Ranged autos was mostly unchanged in PvE due to numbers being buffed to composate, but it definately needed a tone down to not be an absolute menace to the average player. 

 

Yes, it really hurts non mech builds but its best to ponder if theres other areas in Core, Scrapper, and Holo that would reward these build options instead of saying 'its bad' or 'please revert'. That solves nothing and really only to serves the negative stigma that this forum radiates.

 

Is it that awful in open world PvE or even WvW? Then why not suggest a trait addition or rework in Scrapper to encourage rifle play? What about heat tiers for Holo? Or what about buffs to other core lines that encourages core engineer?

 

Of course, not all suggestions are viable, nor simple problems can't have simple solutions. Pistol Engineer has to be carefully reworked without being a menace in PvP with shield offhand (Cele Nade Scrapper is already a threat with this in roaming), nor what we've seen with Rifle making a solid Core, Scrapper, and Holo weapon but a busted Mech one.

[Rhapsody Dragonfly.5136]

You did more then just: 

• Mechanical Genius: Combat attribute bonuses to the mech are now reduced by 50% if the engineer is more than a range of 360 away from the mech for a certain amount of time. HAHAHA!!!! Well this takes me back to when Anet Nerfed Banner Slave, Banner Slave is trash now Hahaha.... Mech is trash Now they went to far it should not have been reduced by 50% It's completely useless HAHAHA.... I am watching my husband Delete Engi and buying new name contracts which is making him madder by the minute , Haha NVM he walked away from game and says he don't want to play it anymore LMAO, I also think Anet has forgotten Holosmith was nurffed because it was OP in PvP there is no need to buff it again, personally, I hated Holosmith and I have no interest in playing it.... well if we are all going to talk about Balance Lets Fix Mech the right way and not turn into trash, or bring Necro back up with Epidemic, or Fix Dragonhunter, I am tried of being hit 3 times and i am downed Anet turned into a trash build again.... well lets see would love to have my power ranger back because Thumper is crap Hammer should have never been on a ranger, it's like they lost there minds at Anet, and forgot about what a ranger is, I hate druid I will never play it, Like I said before Bring the Monk back and ill play a healing class, and then we have Elementalist that is so hard to play its not even worth looking into, I hear you have to play like a pianist just to play weaver haha I'm to old for that and my hands just can't do it :s Mesmer is another hard class to play.... Well the husband just rage quit Guild Wars 2...... All's I can say we have lost so many players due to Anets Nerfing and that started when they took banners away and nerfed Neco, and they have not a clue as to what they are doing in game if only they really played the game they might have some understanding.... should I say it again GOOD JOB ANET YOUR KILLING THE GAME... and WHY?

[Kuma.1503]

36 minutes ago, Cuilan.7091 said:

So what other skill has the same rate of fire as Pre Change Rifle Burst? Dual Pistol Thief? Ranger Long Bow 2?  Both skills send a barrage of rounds and are a general pain point towards the casual audiance in PvP and WvW modes. Biggest difference that there is a Cooldown and downtime between casts, you have time to dodge or use mitigations tools to avoid partial, or even the full burst. Old Burst could continue its barrage at any point without issue.

 

Pre-nerf burst had the same coefficient as hipshot in PvP. In PvE there's no change to the skill's damage even after losing a bullet. 

All they did was spread it into 3 hits instead of 1. Higher rate of fire =/= more damage. This nerfed version is weaker than pre-buff hipshot. And rifle was undeniably underperforming back then. 

Engineer players have reason to be upset. 

But to answer your question, here are a few examples off the top of my head. 

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Jet - 10 packets of damage per channel. This used to go nuts with soulcleave back in the day when soulcleave had no ICD. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge - Hits 3 times per channel like rifle burst. Clones also cast it, and deal good damage with infinite horizon. That's potentially 15 packets of damage in a very short span of time. Also spammable in PvE. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ice_Shards - Fires 3 ice shards per cast. Similar rate of fire to three round burst. Not identified as an overperforming skill in spite of that. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade - Attacks extremely fast. You should see how fast this goes with quickness.  (fun fact, this does 15k DPS afk in PvE in exotic berserker gear). Hits both on the way in and the way out. Also puts a lot of vuln on the target. Also builds energy very quickly on catalyst due to the rapid hits. 

 

Quote

Yes, it really hurts non mech builds but its best to ponder if theres other areas in Core, Scrapper, and Holo that would reward these build options instead of saying 'its bad' or 'please revert'. That solves nothing and really only to serves the negative stigma that this forum radiates.

The other areas of engineer's kit that get constantly nerfed to tone down mechanist?

Like the med kit and elixir gun nerfs which hit heal scrapper. Even though heal scrapper is underperforming right now. 

Or pistol which we've been asking for buffs for for years. Still no news on that, even on this major balance patch.

Fact is, engineer has very few "other options". We have 2 MH weapons to choose from. One has been neglected for years and they refuse to buff it. The other (which was actually fixed to be good!) got butchered right back into the garbage can. 

So yes, engineer mains are (justifiably) upset. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Cuilan.7091]

5 minutes ago, Rhapsody Dragonfly.5136 said:

You did more then just: 

• Mechanical Genius: Combat attribute bonuses to the mech are now reduced by 50% if the engineer is more than a range of 360 away from the mech for a certain amount of time. HAHAHA!!!! Well this takes me back to when Anet Nerfed Banner Slave, Banner Slave is trash now Hahaha.... Mech is trash Now they went to far it should not have been reduced by 50% It's completely useless HAHAHA.... I am watching my husband Delete Engi and buying new name contracts which is making him madder by the minute , Haha NVM he walked away from game and says he don't want to play it anymore LMAO, I also think Anet has forgotten Holosmith was nurffed because it was OP in PvP there is no need to buff it again, personally, I hated Holosmith and I have no interest in playing it.... well if we are all going to talk about Balance Lets Fix Mech the right way and not turn into trash, or bring Necro back up with Epidemic, or Fix Dragonhunter, I am tried of being hit 3 times and i am downed Anet turned into a trash build again.... well lets see would love to have my power ranger back because Thumper is crap Hammer should have never been on a ranger, it's like they lost there minds at Anet, and forgot about what a ranger is, I hate druid I will never play it, Like I said before Bring the Monk back and ill play a healing class, and then we have Elementalist that is so hard to play its not even worth looking into, I hear you have to play like a pianist just to play weaver haha I'm to old for that and my hands just can't do it :s Mesmer is another hard class to play.... Well the husband just rage quit Guild Wars 2...... All's I can say we have lost so many players due to Anets Nerfing and that started when they took banners away and nerfed Neco, and they have not a clue as to what they are doing in game if only they really played the game they might have some understanding.... should I say it again GOOD JOB ANET YOUR KILLING THE GAME... and WHY?

Not even an hour in and you just proved my first paragraph from the post above. I'll treat you serious and try to rewrite your ramblings and give information and advice where I can

 

>Reduced Offensive Stats on Mech by 50%

I'm not sure how your Husband is playing but this mainly affects Mechs in PvP and WvW where it doesn't have a defiance bar and can be Cc'd and immobilize. It gives urgency to the Mech to Fight or flight, instead of letting it tank and duel fights. In PvE there are minimal cases of staying too far from the mech in lengths of a time, unless you're doing some really strange farming techniques.

 

>Banner Slave Trash

Tactics Banner would like to have word with you in WvW, Banner standard will lilke to laugh at you in PvP, and the slew of perna Quickness and utility PvE bannner warriors will like to ignore you

 

>Holo OP in PvP

It was overpowered until Stability was removed and the range of Shockwave was halfed (also prot holo nerfs) Now its gotten buffs for retaining high heat while using ECU instead of being baseline strong

 

>Everything else

Please take a break from the forums

 

 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

9 minutes ago, Cuilan.7091 said:

In PvE there are minimal cases of staying too far from the mech in lengths of a time, unless you're doing some really strange farming techniques.

 

The issue here is more or less the AI still sucks with the mech, so it likes to wander off at times for no reason even in combat. And the follow/guard button doesn't always work properly. So while yes the dps loss is neutral, it is more annoying to control due to mainly AI problems which is why people want a shorter leash around it for better control.

[Ruisenior.6342]

48 minutes ago, Cuilan.7091 said:

I avoid this absolute mess of a forum because I enjoy having a sense of sanity in my discussions and this thread is just proving that point. Though just this night I would like for you guys to take some of my insight so you're not just blindly hating nor offering questionable suggestions.

 

Guild Wars 2 has three Game Modes, it isn't as easy to create mechanical skill splits like other games due to early philosphy and coding of the engine. So what the Devs can do is compromise where they can and allow for tuning of numerical changes when possible.

 

When Rifle was changed into a triple round burst by a now former developer (Who made Mech, you can guess who it was), we got a low-intesity build that was clearly over-powered and was for months. This was mainly on how many times Rifle actually fires.

 

So what other skill has the same rate of fire as Pre Change Rifle Burst? Dual Pistol Thief? Ranger Long Bow 2?  Both skills send a barrage of rounds and are a general pain point towards the casual audiance in PvP and WvW modes. Biggest difference that there is a Cooldown and downtime between casts, you have time to dodge or use mitigations tools to avoid partial, or even the full burst. Old Burst could continue its barrage at any point without issue.

 

Now lets look at On Proc effects, A typical Full DPS build in any mode would utilize Firearms and Explosives. With Old Burst effectively having a 3x chance of applying bleeds (More so with Shrapnel) consistent rocket / orbital procs, high vuln uptime, and a slew of other effects.

 

Pair both together and you have an easy to use, highly rewarding, AUTO ATTACK that done by one button. Reducing the overall spam of these 1200 Ranged autos was mostly unchanged in PvE due to numbers being buffed to composate, but it definately needed a tone down to not be an absolute menace to the average player. 

 

Yes, it really hurts non mech builds but its best to ponder if theres other areas in Core, Scrapper, and Holo that would reward these build options instead of saying 'its bad' or 'please revert'. That solves nothing and really only to serves the negative stigma that this forum radiates.

 

Is it that awful in open world PvE or even WvW? Then why not suggest a trait addition or rework in Scrapper to encourage rifle play? What about heat tiers for Holo? Or what about buffs to other core lines that encourages core engineer?

 

Of course, not all suggestions are viable, nor simple problems can't have simple solutions. Pistol Engineer has to be carefully reworked without being a menace in PvP with shield offhand (Cele Nade Scrapper is already a threat with this in roaming), nor what we've seen with Rifle making a solid Core, Scrapper, and Holo weapon but a busted Mech one.

Genious if i could i would give you a contract!!

[Rhapsody Dragonfly.5136]

Hum, I am just saying they went a little to far again, if you consider all the classes they nerfed this year... this was a big blow again... It gets tiering. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Rhapsody Dragonfly.5136
i said it another way

[Rhapsody Dragonfly.5136]

21 minutes ago, Cuilan.7091 said:

Not even an hour in and you just proved my first paragraph from the post above. I'll treat you serious and try to rewrite your ramblings and give information and advice where I can

 

>Reduced Offensive Stats on Mech by 50%

I'm not sure how your Husband is playing but this mainly affects Mechs in PvP and WvW where it doesn't have a defiance bar and can be Cc'd and immobilize. It gives urgency to the Mech to Fight or flight, instead of letting it tank and duel fights. In PvE there are minimal cases of staying too far from the mech in lengths of a time, unless you're doing some really strange farming techniques.

 

>Banner Slave Trash

Tactics Banner would like to have word with you in WvW, Banner standard will lilke to laugh at you in PvP, and the slew of perna Quickness and utility PvE bannner warriors will like to ignore you

 

>Holo OP in PvP

It was overpowered until Stability was removed and the range of Shockwave was halfed (also prot holo nerfs) Now its gotten buffs for retaining high heat while using ECU instead of being baseline strong

 

>Everything else

Please take a break from the forums

 

 

 

[Rhapsody Dragonfly.5136]

Cuilan.7091, and if you can't read what I have written I am sorry I am dyslexic and I was put in a learning handicap class that didn't help with English's writing. so if you want to pick on me for the way I write to try and make me feel bad lol well that's not going to help you,..... and again sorry still not interested in it I'll never play holosmith again I didn't like it then and I'm not going to like it now, and my husband plays WvW,  and PvE he took it out on a test run in crystal oasis and died lmao, the game is just getting to hard to play for us old timers I guess.... I am not going to play bladsworen that took the place of banners, I have no interest, I don't play banner slave in Pvp, I did happen to use banner slave in Raids, that was stripped from us, and that is were we lost thousands of players this year.... I also play Necro scourge in Raids epi is a joke now....                                                                                                                                                         And if anyone needs a break from forms its you that wants to net pick on everyone that does not agree with you......

[Holly.8190]

26 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

So yes, engineer mains are (justifiably) upset. 

Not me, Love the new rifle AA, Love all the new Over 100% heat effects, Pistol/Pistol Engi is the set of weapons I have the most fun with in game has been for over 2 years (When I started maining Engi). Heal Scrapper is still good, its not like the changes they made suddenly made it die(I still do my raid clears with it ez). If I played Mech I am sure I would be annoyed at the leash but I don't so for me it seems kinda EH like oh no gotta press f7 🤯

[Doctor Hide.6345]

10 minutes ago, Holly.8190 said:

Not me, Love the new rifle AA, Love all the new Over 100% heat effects, Pistol/Pistol Engi is the set of weapons I have the most fun with in game has been for over 2 years (When I started maining Engi). Heal Scrapper is still good, its not like the changes they made suddenly made it die(I still do my raid clears with it ez). If I played Mech I am sure I would be annoyed at the leash but I don't so for me it seems kinda EH like oh no gotta press f7 🤯

 

It's more you have to hit it a lot, and it doesn't work at times which leads to repeat spamming it until it does.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

8 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Well scrapper is intended to be run with a hammer or in the case of heal scrapper, without a rifle but with pistol+shield.

 

That is the worse argument I've seen to justify why a core weapon should be trash when played on a non core spec.

 

But hey, why not apply that concept to all class so that Firebrand is only good with an axe, Dragonhunter is only good with a longbow, Druid is only good with a staff. Screw core weapon and weapon diversity, weapon spec or nothing

[Holly.8190]

8 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

It's more you have to hit it a lot, and it doesn't work at times which leads to repeat spamming it until it does.

That's what I was worried about, kinda sucks for the people who play mech. Surely better ways to deal with the mech "Problem". Personally now that they have removed the noise if they make it like the turtle so it phases then I would be content with mech being everywhere.

[Infusion.7149]

17 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

That is the worse argument I've seen to justify why a core weapon should be trash when played on a non core spec.

 

But hey, why not apply that concept to all class so that Firebrand is only good with an axe, Dragonhunter is only good with a longbow, Druid is only good with a staff. Screw core weapon and weapon diversity, weapon spec or nothing

You do know that kits are core right?
Grenade kit, bomb kit, tool kit (which is sort of meme), elixir gun, med kit, mortar kit...

It's a simple fact that rifle is 1200 range which means sustained DPS was never slated to be that high. It's the same if you were to run Longbow DH, your bulk of damage still comes from greatsword.

The irony of your comment is with the current state of firebrand you're crazy to use say a scepter instead of axe.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Tails.9372]

8 minutes ago, Holly.8190 said:

Surely better ways to deal with the mech "Problem".

Yes, they could have reduced the damage from the rifle AA (which is where most of the "passive damage" actually is) and put it into 2. That way you put more emphasis on "active gameplay" regardless of how stationary the fight is without any of the annoyances / issues their current approach brings along.

9 minutes ago, Holly.8190 said:

Personally now that they have removed the noise if they make it like the turtle so it phases then I would be content with mech being everywhere.

Noise isn't the only issue but if we had the option to hide pets / minions from allied players then I wouldn't mind the "mech being everywhere" either.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You do know that kits are core right?
Grenade kit, bomb kit, tool kit (which is sort of meme), elixir gun, med kit, mortar kit...

It's a simple fact that rifle is 1200 range which means sustained DPS was never slated to be that high.

 

Ok and ? How does that answer the issue that literaly all core engineer weapon are trash ?

 

Engineer has 3 weapon and 2 of them are trash one is a good defensive off hand weapon. Kits are and should not be the reason why core weapon are trash.

 

 

[Infusion.7149]

3 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

Ok and ? How does that answer the issue that literaly all core engineer weapon are trash ?

 

Engineer has 3 weapon and 2 of them are trash one is a good defensive off hand weapon. Kits are and should not be the reason why core weapon are trash.

 

 

The whole spec is designed around using kits. You act like you started playing engi with elite specs?

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

The whole spec is designed around using kits. You act like you started playing engi with elite specs?

 

With Engineer so far kits are the main weapon and the main weapon is a stat stick that boost kit. Rifle reworked offered the Engineer and actual GOOD and FUN weapon as a main weapon while kit are secondary weapon like they should do.

 

I know it is hard for non engineer player to understand and even imagine that Engineer weapon can actually be used as a weapon

[Infusion.7149]

6 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

With Engineer so far kits are the main weapon and the main weapon is a stat stick that boost kit. Rifle reworked offered the Engineer and actual GOOD and FUN weapon as a main weapon while kit are secondary weapon like they should do.

 

I know it is hard for non engineer player to understand and even imagine that Engineer weapon can actually be used as a weapon

Unless you are playing core engineer your point is literally moot. Before condi mech condi core engineer ran kits as well as pistol.

• Heal mech uses mace and med kit / elixir gun/mortar kit
• Some variants power mech use mace (before the rifle buffs), condi mech uses mace or pistol
• Power scrapper always uses hammer (grenade kit) ; in WvW we had bomb kit scrapper and flamethrower scrapper as DPS in the past
• Heal scrapper runs elixir gun and med kit, mortar kit is optional over sneak gyro and depends on game mode
• Holo always uses sword unless playing PBM Holo with rifle and bomb kit (notice a trend here, kits again) , there was a brief period of condi holo before mech existed with pistols

I find it funny that you accuse me of being a non-engineer player when my engineer is since the beta and has thousands of hours in not just PVE but also in WVW and PVP (Champion Genius too).

Edited November 30, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Alcatraznc.3869]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Unless you are playing core engineer your point is literally moot. Before condi mech condi core engineer ran kits as well as pistol.

It is not like Engineer has a big choice of weapon.

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

• Heal mech uses mace and med kit / elixir gun/mortar kit
• Some variants power mech use mace (before the rifle buffs), condi mech uses mace or pistol
• Power scrapper always uses hammer (grenade kit) ; in WvW we had bomb kit scrapper and flamethrower scrapper as DPS in the past
• Heal scrapper runs elixir gun and med kit, mortar kit is optional over sneak gyro and depends on game mode
• Holo always uses sword unless playing PBM Holo with rifle and bomb kit (notice a trend here, kits again) , there was a brief period of condi holo before mech existed with pistols

 

And all of these variant except heal could run rifle without loosing too much damage in return. Rifle was a decent alternative if one wanted. But now ? there is literaly 0 reason to run rifle. For PvE its just a worse option and unfun although if you really want you can still run it. But for PvP and WvW ? it is straight up just trash.  The damage is even lower than hipshot and hipshot wasnt even good to begin with.

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I find it funny that you accuse me of being a non-engineer player when my engineer is since the beta and has thousands of hours in not just PVE but also in WVW and PVP (Champion Genius too).

 

And after all these hours invested into the class you are still unable to understand how bad core Engineer weapon is and why it is unhealthy... Well that tells a lot

[LilBiM.3581]

I imagine that only us masochists will be left playing this class by the time they're done with it.

[Doggie.3184]

1 hour ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

The issue here is more or less the AI still sucks with the mech, so it likes to wander off at times for no reason even in combat. And the follow/guard button doesn't always work properly. So while yes the dps loss is neutral, it is more annoying to control due to mainly AI problems which is why people want a shorter leash around it for better control.

I did a fractal today as Alacrity and my Mech was on opposite side of boss for some reason outa buff radius when I wanted to use my F skills. So I told it to return to me and when it arrived on top of me by the time I wanna press F3 it suddenly starts wandering back to other side of boss and ended up using the skill far enough to miss some allies. After it finished channeling it once again continued it's journey to opposite side out of Mechanical Stupidity radius. This whole time I'm just standing in place meleeing so idk why it keeps moving around dumbly. 

Also several times it kept fighting enemies in distance totally ignoring me spamming return to me. It just continued smacking whatever pissed it off till I ran far enough from it. Like I've said a million times if they wanna do this then gimme a toggle that tells it to stay within 360 radius.

Also absolutely hate when it keeps wanting to hit invulnerable mobs nomatter how many times I spam return. Like in the Bloomhunger swamp fractal when I want it killing adds and keep telling it to over and over and he keeps going back to the invulnerable boss in center every time something's finished off even though I never shoot at it after telling it to return and only been fighting adds. We're getting punished for the AI being too stupid and annoying. It's anti QoL.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[Holly.8190]

19 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

It is not like Engineer has a big choice of weapon.

Yes cos Core Engi is based around using at least 1 kit as a weapon swap

 

19 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

And all of these variant except heal could run rifle without loosing too much damage in return. Rifle was a decent alternative if one wanted. But now ? there is literaly 0 reason to run rifle. For PvE its just a worse option and unfun although if you really want you can still run it. But for PvP and WvW ? it is straight up just trash.  The damage is even lower than hipshot and hipshot wasnt even good to begin with.

I use Rifle with Heal Scrapper makes it easier to upkeep might, that wont change for me and do you really think Condi Mech or Holo could use rifle? Really? And never diss Hip Shot, I miss that AA.

 

21 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

And after all these hours invested into the class you are still unable to understand how bad core Engineer weapon is and why it is unhealthy... Well that tells a lot

And I feel like you don't understand how Core Engineer was designed to work, Most of the Elite Weapons have Strong AAs to make up for the fact that Core Engineer is designed with Kits and they want the Elites to make changes to core (Shocker I know).