Alliances are nowhere near complete. Poorly managed project with serious concerns.

[Vavume.8065]

After playing these beta's and being assigned to random teams that have no identity it really feels like the soul has been sucked out of WvW. I would rather stay on my server which I have been on for 10 years and keep that identity, I do not wish to be randomly thrown in with try hards from bandwagon servers. Just add the rewards and leave the servers as they are.

[roederich.2716]

14 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

The server container itself is community, a large number of players with a large number of iterations that are formed that change, friendships that are formed etc etc. Servers can be compared with each other, guilds and alliances can not be compared with each other. And as I have already written it is not about being afraid of a change, precisely because of this modality that has practically never seen changes, it is clear that whatever you want to change you can only find me agree.

But if I see that with the change could an unexpected problem I come here and write it to you. Alliances are all very well and I can't wait for them to arrive, I believe, as far as I know, that this project is missing a part, an important part.

Development is working on this project right now and if we don't ask now to add anything that can help to stimulate and motivate players we may not get a second chance.

ofc guilds and alliances can be compared with eath others like everything else can.

every alliance will have its sort of mentality based on who is forming it and gives out the goal of the alliance like it is with all the different guilds already. you can see since many years in all sorts of guild adverts how different they are so one chooses the circle of people to play with that has same mind as the player.

thats going to be the case with alliances also.

and if anyone in this game cant find any team to play with thats fits his idea, can still just found an own alliance then.

who doesnt want it gets randomly assigned what will be no problem as a player who cant find anyone to play is a solo person and wont mind about where to land each week at all. as that persons thinks all others are not good enough and dont wants to start something on his own = solo player without home by self choosal.

alliances to found and make grow is the new part of the game in the future and all the proclaimed great friends and communities are in the middle of that.

keep in mind the system will be there permanently in the future. that a 1 week beta tech test wont allow for a forming of long term alliance while the alliance functions are not even ingame should be clear to everyone.

if alliance after all years community claimed to want more influence of who plays with them and who not will fail i as arenanet would make a clear last statement that wvw from then on will get no furhter attention and only be in maintainance mode cause you guys paid that with the game sale. but not a single balancing, not a single more armor skin or a single more event etc will be done for that. eat what you have or you are free to leave the house. i would kick all the gvg and wvw people who believe they are the saviours of the game from dev discord and just delete the wvw section of this forum. END.

everytime community wants something anet makes it and then community jumps on it and derails their own suggestions literally. I can absolutely understand that anet prolly thinks by now that you guys just want to fool them and i would therefore end all developement for it.

wont write anyhting more to that as i start to have the impression some people here are just bored at all and keep posting the same unfounded rants to make themselfes a fun out of it for the sake to have someone to talk to. voicecom and being social is not communities strength in 2022 as we know. 

long live the projectile clouds!

Edited December 7, 2022 by roederich.2716

[Riba.3271]

3 hours ago, Vavume.8065 said:

After playing these beta's and being assigned to random teams that have no identity it really feels like the soul has been sucked out of WvW. I would rather stay on my server which I have been on for 10 years and keep that identity, I do not wish to be randomly thrown in with try hards from bandwagon servers. Just add the rewards and leave the servers as they are.

They should go even further and remove linkings. Just your server, no random teammates. Delete half of the servers and great gamemode has arrived

Edited December 7, 2022 by Riba.3271

[roederich.2716]

2 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

They should go even further and remove linkings. Just your server, no random teammates. Delete half of the servers and great gamemode has arrived

Would work.

One could even go more far:

remove linking, reduce the numbers of players per server drastically.

remove the 4 existing maps and replace it with 1 new map instead.

though community asked anet for more control about who can join their team and who not. Thats why anet has choosen alliances as the way to go. It was a community feedback they followed.

[Mabi black.1824]

4 hours ago, roederich.2716 said:

ofc guilds and alliances can be compared with eath others like everything else can.

every alliance will have its sort of mentality based on who is forming it and gives out the goal of the alliance like it is with all the different guilds already. you can see since many years in all sorts of guild adverts how different they are so one chooses the circle of people to play with that has same mind as the player.

thats going to be the case with alliances also.

Perhaps we are talking about two different things. The Anet mechanic that at the end of the week puts 1 up and 1 down refers to the servers. In the ranking there are servers. In the medal table you can see all the servers. I speak of this. My alliance is 100 players your alliance is 500 players What do we want to compare? What competition or tournament do we want to face if we are 5:1 compared to your alliance? if I look at the beta weeks and if I look at the development project of the alliances, I see a very good job in terms of balance, the project is based on a clever idea, many small pieces can actually be put together to get very similar teams and flows. ( nobody wants perfection ) but what I see is also that this project involves mixing and remaking these balanced teams that they have obtained. making any form of large-scale competition impossible and useless. medium term 6 months 1 year.

My consideration, my feedback, is limited to this. And since development is working right now for WWW, I guess it's appropriate to let development know. Perhaps they have already imagined more to add with the new system of alliances, just say it, just talk about it. In my part they usually say: if with all the work you have done 30, crack the avarice and do 31 so we fix the work once and for all.

And I do not presume to be the spokesman of none. I speak only for myself and for those who are my personal thoughts. Like everyone else here on the forum.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[Mabi black.1824]

4 hours ago, roederich.2716 said:

alliances to found and make grow is the new part of the game in the future and all the proclaimed great friends and communities are in the middle of that.

All groups and players are in the midst of great chaos. Because they know they are losing an important reference called a server. Players identify themselves to their server and often put content solely for their server. They are many or they are few I do not know, but anyway there are. And what would be the novelty? You put together 500 players in your guild before and put together 500 players in the alliance after. The real novelty would be to break those groups so big to distribute them among the various teams for real, not for pretend. And maybe they'll start putting some content into this game mode.

[roederich.2716]

10 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Perhaps we are talking about two different things. The Anet mechanic that at the end of the week puts 1 up and 1 down refers to the servers. In the ranking there are servers. In the medal table you can see all the servers. I speak of this. My alliance is 100 players your alliance is 500 players What do we want to compare? What competition or tournament do we want to face if we are 5:1 compared to your alliance? if I look at the beta weeks and if I look at the development project of the alliances, I see a very good job in terms of balance, the project is based on a clever idea, many small pieces can actually be put together to get very similar teams and flows. ( nobody wants perfection ) but what I see is also that this project involves mixing and remaking these balanced teams that they have obtained. making any form of large-scale competition impossible and useless. medium term 6 months 1 year.

My consideration, my feedback, is limited to this. And since development is working right now for WWW, I guess it's appropriate to let development know. Perhaps they have already imagined more to add with the new system of alliances, just say it, just talk about it. In my part they usually say: if with all the work you have done 30, crack the avarice and do 31 so we fix the work once and for all.

And I do not presume to be the spokesman of none. I speak only for myself and for those who are my personal thoughts. Like everyone else here on the forum.

1. the gap of 400 players is to be shuffled with randoms like anet explained many times.

2. It can be that there arent enough players in total population to fill up all matches but keep in mind you have the possibiility to merge with other alliances then if you want to be competitive again. that is the good thing in alliance it requires the leaders to take care. alliances will not be like the servers where social wellfare people do nonsense without scoring 24/7 and fill up the servers game hours until its set to full. if you want to be competitive you need to keep good contacts with others and make allies.

is like in the real world. if you are not self sufficient you need to make allies, if you dont you will be game over. 

3. if another alliance reaches 500 players and you only 100 why is that so? YOU are responsible for your allies with others.

4. alliances who will not care for the win wont care at all if they win or lose so they will not mind anything at all. 

the good thing in the future, the ones who want it will match against each others. the ones who are there for social wellfare time killing or just random fights in the evenings will get what they make out of it.

no matchmaking in the world will ever satisfy everyone 100%. that is also what the devs of call of duty warzone said lately in an interview with german pc games magazine. its not possible as the human factor cant be calculated 100% people change their mood, their likes and habbits with experience over time. the only thing what will be sure is there will be an alliance for everyone. who doenst want it will be solo assigned.

and now stop this attempts to think it must be fit into everybodys beliefs and likes to 100%. you will be surprised how fast people adapt to the new system later.

[roederich.2716]

3 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

All groups and players are in the midst of great chaos. Because they know they are losing an important reference called a server. Players identify themselves to their server and often put content solely for their server. They are many or they are few I do not know, but anyway there are. And what would be the novelty? You put together 500 players in your guild before and put together 500 players in the alliance after. The real novelty would be to break those groups so big to distribute them among the various teams for real, not for pretend. And maybe they'll start putting some content into this game mode.

there will be no chaos, people have already many years time now since anet announced alliances years ago. it might be that they dropped the developement and started in 2021 on it but still already time to start to think of how to start int he new system.

its normal market behaviour. at the start there is jsut a small offer, then more traders come, customers start to sort what they want and go for it, order takes place - > normal business repeat.

its a change  so expect changes comming in. if anyone tells me he loses his friends while electronic comm plattforms like discord, ingame mail etc exist this person cant be part of something for real.

im sure the deso community, who seems the only community who lose all their friends on this forums everyday has by now posted a plan to their community in deso discord of how to transfer into alliances?

no? better start, other servers are already ready to go and informed their community about what will happen later with the discord etc.

if you dont do anything atm and just wait until the new system is there, dont cry later that you have nothing. its your own fault if you are lazy now.

[Mabi black.1824]

16 minutes ago, roederich.2716 said:

. if another alliance reaches 500 players and you only 100 why is that so? YOU are responsible for your allies with others

Well, I had never observed alliances from this perspective. Basically, you have to put together 500 players to be able to compare yourself against others, to climb a leaderboard and to win a tournament. all others will be excluded. ok if this is the logic of the project I can only take note of it and accept it. I can also wish you good luck to intercept and expand players in this new WWW. before it was different I could be in my guild of 10 men and still feel like a part of my server and try anything to make my server win. WVW was designed in a completely free and democratic form. You can also be a single player and still identify yourself in your team. Allowing comparison and competition only to groups of 500 players and everyone else is out, in my opinion is a big step backwards.

[Mabi black.1824]

32 minutes ago, roederich.2716 said:

and now stop this attempts to think it must be fit into everybodys beliefs and likes to 100%. you will be surprised how fast people adapt to the new system later.

I agree with this, you cannot think of satisfying everyone, so I prefer a democratic and inclusive logic rather than an exclusivist logic, just to intercept the greatest number of players.

When you add stakes, limits and restrictions people usually never like it.I just hope you're right and I'm wrong.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[roederich.2716]

1 minute ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Well, I had never observed alliances from this perspective. Basically, you have to put together 500 players to be able to compare yourself against others, to climb a leaderboard and to win a tournament. all others will be excluded. ok if this is the logic of the project I can only take note of it and accept it. I can also wish you good luck to intercept and expand players in this new WWW. before it was different I could be in my guild of 10 men and still feel like a part of my server and try anything to make my server win. WVW was designed in a completely free and democratic form. You can also be a single player and still identify yourself in your team. Allowing comparison and competition only to groups of 500 players and everyone else is out, in my opinion is a big step backwards.

and that wont change. you with your 10 man guild will join an alliance and be part if this community. like you choose a server you choose an alliance.

the endsystem will not work like the beta. here in beta all players need to join the same guild. in alliances not, in alliances you stay in your 10 man guild but can connect it to an alliance then. is what anet announced.

name the alliance "New Hope for Deso"  and then your 10 man ronin guild will connect to it and you are in that team and still can run your own guild tag in matchup as you not change the guild to be in an alliance. if ronin guild leaves this alliance you can connect your guild to another alliance if you consider something better for you. like you could change server now, you change the alliance later if yiou want.

this is how it works,

[Mabi black.1824]

1 hour ago, roederich.2716 said:

and that wont change. you with your 10 man guild will join an alliance and be part if this community. like you choose a server you choose an alliance.

When I bought GW2 I selected a server one of the many teams that Arena Net makes available to players. It's its own container and only Anet can manipulate it to worry that they're all built in a balanced way and allow PvP players to compete with each other in the form of big worlds, each one in the way they prefer. alone, with 5 friends or with a large guild of 500 players. Boring to have the same team for 10 years? 

I just agree, we remake all the teams every year, every Christmas day we give ourselves a completely new WVW. very beautiful. The alliance container that you suggest to use to allow a comparison and competition between players, on the other hand, is completely manipulated by the players themselves. This by nature goes in the opposite direction to a concept of balance because players organized in terms of skill and coverage will try to win easy. 

On the contrary, more casual, less frequent players and newly arrived players will be randomly positioned and excluded a priori to healthy competition and good fun. They will not have the time and way to put together 500 players and for this reason they are excluded from the competition in a competitive mode by nature. Or there could be players who can only put 200 people together for whatever reason we want to invent. And only for this reason will they also be excluded?

So I keep seeing many small problems and if I were Arenanet I would do anything to avoid them. But as I told you I just hope you're right and I'm wrong.

Finally, when I talk about the hard work that our friends at Anet are finally putting into this mode, I always do it with the broadest possible perspective, my guild or my server counts for nothing. If in any way my guild has negatively affected your gaming experience I can only apologize and assure you that it was not our intention. So I ask you to think as broadly as possible, and go further, because the new mechanic affects all players, guilds and servers of WVW. Not just my guild or my server.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[Riba.3271]

4 hours ago, roederich.2716 said:

though community asked anet for more control about who can join their team and who not. Thats why anet has choosen alliances as the way to go. It was a community feedback they followed.

Isn't it less control tho 🤭

[enkidu.5937]

20 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Doesnt that imply that people wouldnt even notice a beta is going on if Anet never said anything?

No. They have to log in to notice.

[Chaba.5410]

Anet just needs to implement "Comment Created Content" to fix WvW.
 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

10 hours ago, roederich.2716 said:

1. the gap of 400 players is to be shuffled with randoms like anet explained many times.

For arguments if we assume the teams are just 500 people, those 400 people could be... a single guild with 400 people. Another alliance with 400 people. Two alliances with 200 people each. A guild of 300 people and an alliance of 100 people. 50 random players and a 350 man alliance. 100 random players and a 300 man guild. Two 100 man guilds, a 50 man alliance and a 150 man alliance. Who knows. It could be literally any combination of anything, not just a pile of "randoms".

If we assume actual teams of 2500 give or take since people keep forgetting a team isnt an alliance and stare themselves blind on 500 mans, there's nothing stopping the team with a 100 man alliance getting a 500 man alliance as well. It would still fall within Anets vision of a few alliances per team, rounded out with loose guilds and finally random players. That's how the shuffle would work, not filling in gaps to somehow match numbers of against individual alliances.

[RisingDawn.5796]

22 hours ago, Vavume.8065 said:

After playing these beta's and being assigned to random teams that have no identity it really feels like the soul has been sucked out of WvW. I would rather stay on my server which I have been on for 10 years and keep that identity, I do not wish to be randomly thrown in with try hards from bandwagon servers. Just add the rewards and leave the servers as they are.

 

All that 'Server' identity has already been split though. Many transferred Servers, quit the game(mode) and the rest are pugs who don't even bother joining Community Discords and do their own thing.

Some people here think it's simple just to rewrite 5-10 year old code, aswell as removing Server Links, which won't work with the current active wvw population; which has shrunk massively during the last 10 years I've played the game mode, nevermind that things would get stale over time, if you just lock everybody to certain servers.

Even with the short turnaround, most guilds and their pugmanders, probably decided to do their own thing for these phase 1 betas, not that there is a big amount of them left active anymore.

I don't even think Mighty Teapot is covering it much either as it's still in Phase 1 and also as he didn't plan a big guild event, not that he is mainly WvW streamer, all you have is this being popular, sadge. WvW not in title

Edited December 8, 2022 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[Swagger.1459]

20 hours ago, Vavume.8065 said:

After playing these beta's and being assigned to random teams that have no identity it really feels like the soul has been sucked out of WvW. I would rather stay on my server which I have been on for 10 years and keep that identity, I do not wish to be randomly thrown in with try hards from bandwagon servers. Just add the rewards and leave the servers as they are.

So join a guild and alliance and you'll be with less try hards and bandwagoners than you already are on a server where players come and go all the time anyway. I mean, if you've been on your server for 10 years, surely people you know and like have guilds and are planning on forming an alliance, right? 

[Riba.3271]

4 hours ago, CrimsonOneThree.5682 said:

 

Some people here think it's simple just to rewrite 5-10 year old code, aswell as removing Server Links, which won't work with the current active wvw population; which has shrunk massively during the last 10 years I've played the game mode, nevermind that things would get stale over time, if you just lock everybody to certain servers.

Nobody said transfers would be unavailable, just to most stacked servers, and removing link servers means literally removing them, not going back to same amount of tiers there was.

 

MMORPGs usually have more servers on release, then they delete the inactive ones. They don't come up with weird system where 2 servers are together with different transfer costs. Killing all server communities instead of letting some players refind their place, is definitely unique way of dealing with things. It is akin to breaking a kids toy because 2 kids wanna play with it but can't at same time. Yea, it is fair, but it isn't good solution for anyone.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Riba.3271

[RisingDawn.5796]

17 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

Nobody said transfers would be unavailable, just to most stacked servers, and removing link servers means literally removing them, not going back to same amount of tiers there was.

 

MMORPGs usually have more servers on release, then they delete the inactive ones. They don't come up with weird system where 2 servers are together with different transfer costs. Killing all server communities instead of letting some players refind their place, is definitely unique way of dealing with things. It is akin to breaking a kids toy because 2 kids wanna play with it but can't at same time. Yea, it is fair, but it isn't good solution for anyone.

 

Didn't you just leave a community, that is split like crazy now, which to be honest started falling apart before we got these Server relinks? 

So does it matter, especially if everyone doesn't play or organize things properly on the same current server communities; which have been shrunk down over the years.

Anyway, Guild Alliances still haven't even been implemented, so most guilds and pugmanders decided to do their own thing, while others have had temporary Alliance guilds before this beta, which was at such a short notice.

Edited December 8, 2022 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[Riba.3271]

2 minutes ago, CrimsonOneThree.5682 said:

 

Didn't you just leave a community, that is split like crazy now, which to be honest started falling apart before we got these Server relinks? 

Well, that is what happens if you take opportunity for a change from players. Play too much? Marked unlinked and full. Have Pugs on your server? Can't fit guilds. Train people? Naaah, people will be replaced every 2 months. Incoming transfers? Nah, 1800 gems despite being in lowest tier. Want to play game outside primetime? Here, have less people next linking.

 

Starting to punish people for playing more was the breaking point of WvW.  Communities that try their best need the be able to grow.