What GW2 really lacks to me (in comparison to WoW)

[Doctor Hide.6345]

2 minutes ago, Farohna.6247 said:

Not sure currently, but there were lore books within game, as well as following the story itself.  All of it has backstory that is available in-game in the form of quests, cinematics, dungeons and raids, etc.  The books are for those who just wished to continue reading more or a novel version of their favorite story, you could read the book about Arthas if you want to know more, but it was already in the story within the game beforehand.  They're not meant to be about your character, you're part of a group witnessing and experiencing events, not THE commander.  

GW2 starts out very dry and dull, and gradually improves.  But when I first started playing I found it very eye roll and boring, and tremendously long winded.   It didn't suck me in to why I should care about any of it.  

 

     Yes, I know how it was back in the day with WoW. I quit in MoP as well and frankly the way they did most things was awful.  The CS were far between with most of anything just being text logs. You also were forced to raid to even see most of the story content which is bad design. And for a game to be an RPG it should involve your character some affecting the outcome. If you played as any of the main characters than that would be fine still. You don't though because you are nobody #1023. (I am talking Pre-WoD here. I know things changed with future expacs) There is a reason most people hate FF12 in the series saying the story is weak. It is because your character is not the main focus of it. Same reason WoW story was weak for MoP era and before.

     Well, it started off that way to build your character up to be the commander and the hero of the story. So by the end of it, you were worthy to be called a true hero. It's the same with how most good stories start. You are not immediately the chosen one. You kind of have to build up to it to become one.

[captrowdy.9561]

My endgame was mastering spvp and wvw roaming. I did a lot of research and now I can make a build pretty easily and be successful. When I got my pvp leg backpack I was super stoked. That took a lot of work same thing when I got my skyscale. The best part about it was I could do it casually and I still had easily obtained gear to be competitive in wvw and pve. 

[Farohna.6247]

7 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

     Yes, I know how it was back in the day with WoW. I quit in MoP as well and frankly the way they did most things was awful.  The CS were far between with most of anything just being text logs. You also were forced to raid to even see most of the story content which is bad design. And for a game to be an RPG it should involve your character some affecting the outcome. If you played as any of the main characters than that would be fine still. You don't though because you are nobody #1023. (I am talking Pre-WoD here. I know things changed with future expacs) There is a reason most people hate FF12 in the series saying the story is weak. It is because your character is not the main focus of it. Same reason WoW story was weak for MoP era and before.

     Well, it started off that way to build your character up to be the commander and the hero of the story. So by the end of it, you were worthy to be called a true hero. It's the same with how most good stories start. You are not immediately the chosen one. You kind of have to build up to it to become one.

For me, being a part of a group up against the big baddie and saving the world was an integral part of an MMO.  You weren't alone, you worked along with others.  GW2 has this with Destiny's Edge, Dragon's Watch, etc but drops it all on to the Commander.  Playing with 50 other commanders is kind of hilarious...total Spartacus moment.  

The build up is ok, and since you don't have to do instanced or high end content it makes sense to put more focus on an individual to keep you playing the story.  You don't have big gaps by not raiding, where as in WoW you the story built up to the raids, and miss out on conclusions if you don't do them.  GW2 is much more accessible in this.  You can do it all, you can skip a lot of it, and not miss out on what's going on.  

[Doctor Hide.6345]

8 minutes ago, Farohna.6247 said:

For me, being a part of a group up against the big baddie and saving the world was an integral part of an MMO.  You weren't alone, you worked along with others.  GW2 has this with Destiny's Edge, Dragon's Watch, etc but drops it all on to the Commander.  Playing with 50 other commanders is kind of hilarious...total Spartacus moment.  

The build up is ok, and since you don't have to do instanced or high end content it makes sense to put more focus on an individual to keep you playing the story.  You don't have big gaps by not raiding, where as in WoW you the story built up to the raids, and miss out on conclusions if you don't do them.  GW2 is much more accessible in this.  You can do it all, you can skip a lot of it, and not miss out on what's going on.  

     I guess that is one of the big differences between us then when it comes to thinking on the story. I come from a heavy JRPG background when I started playing WoW, so I never cared for the group story telling of it. I always saw it as weak and kind of meh that the focus was not on your character. I never did any of the raids when I played because I am still mostly a solo person to this day, so I missed a lot of the conclusions because it was locked behind raids which put me in a sour mood to how they did the stories.

     I wouldn't consider Dragon's Watch to be this way like WoW really because as you said it still drops on the commander making your character the main focus of the story. Everyone else is just backdrop to support you. I also separate the gameplay from the story, so everyone else being a commander doesn't bug me because from a story perspective you are the only commander in the world.

     And yeah, I agree GW2 is more accessible this way since you don't need to do raids and such to see the story unfold. It makes it a lot easier to focus on just your character.

[Krexen.9057]

5 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

you could read the book about Arthas if you want to know more

I spent more hours than I care to admit reading lore on the wiki. You just lose track of time, clicking between different links, seeing how everything intertwines, backstories on different entities, etc. I really enjoyed Warcrafts lore. And their cinematics are next level.

 

5 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

GW2 starts out very dry and dull

Yes. Very much so. I tried to drown myself within the first 5 minutes of the game. Turns out you can't. 

 

It was a nice 'new' experience, I'll give it that, but it took until maybe the mid 40s before I really got interested. I did quit Wow the day I tried this. I was so bored with it. I tried FF14, got to level 50, bored out of my mind. This game was exactly what I needed. And the beetle just keeps selling me every time I ride it. 

[AlenaVolkova.8179]

Because it's better get maxed out and getting a handy set of gear, and just go ahead and have fun with expansions, dungeons, fractal, and raid, without like spending months just for a RNG drop for a gear for my Demon Hunter?

 

Are we exactly weaker? We handled like how many end time crisis in a row as mere mortals?

[Vayne.8563]

On 12/12/2022 at 9:37 AM, VanDBellen.4913 said:

 

Not helpful, if the thread is about wanting to enjoy GW2.

I want to enjoy Guild Wars 2 also and the more it's made like WoW, the less that's likely to happen.

There are at least two sides here. One is saying I like the game how it is  and another who's asking to change it so it's more like another game. But I left that game, because I didn't like it. 

 

It's true WoW has changed over time, but a lot of they changes WOW made was to make it more like Guild Wars 2.   Now people are asking for the game to be made more like WoW.

The problem is, a lot of us don't like WOW and wouldn't enjoy that. Just as those who want it to be more WoW-like have the freedom on these forums to say yes I want this, people who would be disenfranchised by this  have as much right to say I don't want this. 

 

I'm not saying this game is perfect. I'm not saying WoW is terrible. I am saying WoW is absolutely not the game I want to play and anyone coming here asking to have this game made into a different game, is disenfranchising all the people who like this game as it is. And they have the right to speak their mind.

[Doghouse.1562]

Personal reaction. Your "WoW goals" from my GW2 perspective. And, yes, I played WoW a lot, back in the day - until GW2 came out. I don't regret having changed and not gone back.

 

1) Getting to max level. You like to level? Fine. Roll an alt. I do it all the time - I have 70 level 80 characters right now, spread over multiple accounts. I have one character of each profession/race ccombination, and I'm working on adding gender to that. It will keep me busy for a while yet. GW2, like GW before it, has a completely different ethos to WoW - levelling is effectively the tutorial. The real game starts when you've completed it. And that difference addresses so many common problems of the MMO genre. Including:

2) Getting stronger and stronger. You may enjoy doing that, but in practical terms it isn't a plus, it's a HUGE minus. Firstly, the GW2 approach puts much more emphasis on learning how to play the game, not merely relying on uber gear to carry you. Far worse, though - the alternative puts everyone on a permanent FOMO treadmill, where you're not really "getting stronger" - you're in a permanent Red Queen's Race to stay in the same place alongside everyone else. You only have to look at the sorts of questions asked on, say, Reddit by potential new players to see that the FOMO treadmill is one of THE things likely to put the average new player off a game. Not succumbing to regular power/level creep is one of GW2's strongest points, not a weakness.

3) Dungeons. Firstly - see point (2). WoW needs bigger and better drops to support the appalling FOMO levelling grind. GW2 doesn't need that. Plus GW2 doesn't lack drops; they're just aimed in a subtly different way. If you enjoy dungeons, you could, for example, go farm yourself a full set of legendary weapons, armor and runes/sigils. It'sultimately no more, or less, artificial than permanently playing in hopes of the latest piece of mega gear (with the significant difference, of course, that in GW2 any gear you manage to farm will be just as useful and versatile next year as it was the first day that you got it).

OK - long term goals. You complain that "I can do anything all the time. But I can't get myself a goal." Um. Not being able to choose between a surfeit of options is a personal challenge that you need to work on, not something that the game needs to hand you on a plate by restricting what's available. The range of possibilities that GW2 brings to the table, and the number of different playstyles and preferences that it supports by consequence,  is one of its core strengths and product differentiators. It's hard to see why ANet would change (or, indeed, why it should).

 

Don't take me amiss; none of this is intended as criticism of what you may or may not like about any particular game. With the one solid, immutable caveat of "Don't spoil it for others", anyone should feel free to play the games they enjoy in the way they enjoy them . But basically what I'm saying is that your personal feelings about GW2 feel very much like an outlier, go contrary in some of the core, original design decisions of the game, and it's hard to see (either from a game or business viewpoint) why ANet would change fundamental things in a way that would make you a lot happier.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Doghouse.1562
Accidental quote

[Padrion.7382]

On 3/13/2023 at 7:49 PM, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

I come from a heavy JRPG background when I started playing WoW, so I never cared for the group story telling of it. I always saw it as weak and kind of meh that the focus was not on your character.

 

GW2 and WoW both do it these days. In the former you are "the commander", in the latter "the champion", either way you are the chosen one. I personally think it's a terrible way of story telling in an MMO and not a particularly great one in a single player game either. However, in Guild Wars at least there is a point (somewhere in HoT I think) where your character at least starts to act like a leader and begins to give orders to NPCs instead of  just running their little unimportant errands whenever being told so. For the champion of the horde/alliance in contrast it seems no task is too mundane to get your hands dirty.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

10 hours ago, Padrion.7382 said:

 

GW2 and WoW both do it these days. In the former you are "the commander", in the latter "the champion", either way you are the chosen one. I personally think it's a terrible way of story telling in an MMO and not a particularly great one in a single player game either. However, in Guild Wars at least there is a point (somewhere in HoT I think) where your character at least starts to act like a leader and begins to give orders to NPCs instead of  just running their little unimportant errands whenever being told so. For the champion of the horde/alliance in contrast it seems no task is too mundane to get your hands dirty.

     Well, that is why I was mainly talking about WoW's story telling in the past because like I said I quit in MoP. I wasn't sure how it was now because I have not touched it since then, nor do I plan too because I think the game has more issues besides the story part that would keep me from playing it again. One of them is the more or less I see the community as more toxic than compared to GW2 which is a turn off. It was bad back in MoP days, but it is more toxic now from just observations of the community.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Splat.7981]

On 12/9/2022 at 1:06 AM, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

Now end game in GW2?

 

achievements

Legendary weapons

Legendary gear

Acended Gear

Gear sets and loadouts

Playing with builds (not just the build that gives the biggest dps/tank/heal)

skins

getting rich

converting gold to gems, buying what you want.

Completing all story lines

Get all mounts.

Be awesome at PVP

Be Awesome at PVE

Be Awesome at WVW

 

 

most importantly, all at your own speed

 

 

 

Greetings.
I am new to HW2 or I should say that i never gave it a fair try and often in my head i keep thinking that i am missing out in a good one.

Same as OP i came here from WoW, i loved it there, i got to try vanilla classic and even wrath of the lich king classic which i didn't play back in the day.
I also love to be rewarded by the time and effort i put into games, in MMORPG's i love doing dungeons and raids, my understanding is that the GW2 team stopped making those, i think it's sad and i don't know why they would do that, is there anything they released to replace them?
No matter if a game has horizontal or vertical progression i do think that dungeons and raids should be a part of a mmorpg.

I do get that many people love to collect mounts, achievements, and so on i love all that but i also love to get into instances, world bosses try to defeat them and be rewarded by it or at least be able to farm those for the things i wish to obtain.

[vares.8457]

10 minutes ago, Splat.7981 said:

Greetings.
I am new to HW2 or I should say that i never gave it a fair try and often in my head i keep thinking that i am missing out in a good one.

Same as OP i came here from WoW, i loved it there, i got to try vanilla classic and even wrath of the lich king classic which i didn't play back in the day.
I also love to be rewarded by the time and effort i put into games, in MMORPG's i love doing dungeons and raids, my understanding is that the GW2 team stopped making those, i think it's sad and i don't know why they would do that, is there anything they released to replace them?
No matter if a game has horizontal or vertical progression i do think that dungeons and raids should be a part of a mmorpg.

I do get that many people love to collect mounts, achievements, and so on i love all that but i also love to get into instances, world bosses try to defeat them and be rewarded by it or at least be able to farm those for the things i wish to obtain.

You can still play raids just fine. There are a lot of statics, raid training guilds and groups and the raid LFG has often groups listed. 
But yes, they stopped developing dungeons and raids and replaced them with fractals (5 man content) and strike missions (10 man content)

Edited July 17, 2023 by vares.8457

[Markodius.4076]

On 12/9/2022 at 12:58 AM, VanDBellen.4913 said:

I know, GW2 is a totally different style of MMO. And it does a lot of things differently from WoW, some you could like, some you don't. And I also don't intend to form this game into something I like and all of you don't. But I know quite a few people that have loved this game for some time and then suddenly stopped playing. For me it was like this since 2016 too. I started, stopped. After some years I started again, loved it, but stopped. And to me it is an aspect of the game that I would call..... it's a little bit too sandbox.

 

Take this with a grain of salt, sandbox is great! Really great. In Tyria you can do pretty much everything and get something for yourself. That's super! In some way... because, I think what the problem is, especially, if you don't have other people to play with, that you don't get those.. long-term goals. It's nice to just log in, do a little bit of roaming, do a few hearts, events, listen to the very awesome world, maybe do an arena or if you've got a bit more time, do a dungeon or something... it's very nice, if you have just some time and ya.. just want to do anything. But I personally figured out for myself, after some time I just don't know what my aim is. 
 

In WoW you have goals.

1. First goal is to get to max level, in GW2, there is much less effort to do this. But I like to level, because I always have something to focus on and to do the things for I do. 
2. Then you know, when you do dungeons in WoW you get better loot and some kind of tokens to get even better loot. In GW2 you get some stuff, but.. what for? I mean, sure it's something. But do you need it in an aim for anything else? To get stronger? Not really. Mats? You can get somewhere else too. So you can have an achievement if you gather them? Hm maybe yes, that's a point. But is it enough? 
3. In WoW you want to get stronger and stronger and you feel it, you feel, some raids or dungeons or whatever just die more easily or you don't die as easily. In PvP you can feel if your armor is better. In GW2, when you have exotic armor, there isn't that much in view to get. In WoW you know, you have to go there and do this to get better armor, in PvP and as well in PvE. And you feel the new armor. At least it was like that previously. 

 

Now in GW2, where do I get these long term goals?

The living story is nice, I love story and lore! And listen to everything precisely. But the things you get for completing parts is.. meh. It's just not necessary to do it. I could literally just walk around and gather and do hearts and get .. maybe even better stuff in the same time. I didn't recognize I'd get a special skin, a mini, a mount, some stronger armor than I have.. just something to store and sell and dismantle. The story is at least a goal I can always follow. But besides this...

 

I can do anything all the time. But I can't get myself a goal. Something big. Something like becoming stronger, or to become the best or some motivation to find myself a team and guild to accomplish something, because why accomplish it? I'd really want to have something to .. do something for. The long-term goal. The aim I do everything I do for. Or to do something specific for. I just feel lost in this game. Over and over again. And I am not a twinker. I want to play my main and to develop him. To experience with him. And to work for a greater goal.

But I think this game makes it pretty difficult. 

 

 

I just needed to get this out. I really like this game. It has a lot of really special things. And the lore is awesome. But everything seems so.. worthless. 

Try to craft every leggy and do all achievements )

[HonesltlyX.7164]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:58 PM, VanDBellen.4913 said:

I know, GW2 is a totally different style of MMO. And it does a lot of things differently from WoW, some you could like, some you don't. And I also don't intend to form this game into something I like and all of you don't. But I know quite a few people that have loved this game for some time and then suddenly stopped playing. For me it was like this since 2016 too. I started, stopped. After some years I started again, loved it, but stopped. And to me it is an aspect of the game that I would call..... it's a little bit too sandbox.

 

Take this with a grain of salt, sandbox is great! Really great. In Tyria you can do pretty much everything and get something for yourself. That's super! In some way... because, I think what the problem is, especially, if you don't have other people to play with, that you don't get those.. long-term goals. It's nice to just log in, do a little bit of roaming, do a few hearts, events, listen to the very awesome world, maybe do an arena or if you've got a bit more time, do a dungeon or something... it's very nice, if you have just some time and ya.. just want to do anything. But I personally figured out for myself, after some time I just don't know what my aim is. 
 

In WoW you have goals.

1. First goal is to get to max level, in GW2, there is much less effort to do this. But I like to level, because I always have something to focus on and to do the things for I do. 
2. Then you know, when you do dungeons in WoW you get better loot and some kind of tokens to get even better loot. In GW2 you get some stuff, but.. what for? I mean, sure it's something. But do you need it in an aim for anything else? To get stronger? Not really. Mats? You can get somewhere else too. So you can have an achievement if you gather them? Hm maybe yes, that's a point. But is it enough? 
3. In WoW you want to get stronger and stronger and you feel it, you feel, some raids or dungeons or whatever just die more easily or you don't die as easily. In PvP you can feel if your armor is better. In GW2, when you have exotic armor, there isn't that much in view to get. In WoW you know, you have to go there and do this to get better armor, in PvP and as well in PvE. And you feel the new armor. At least it was like that previously. 

 

Now in GW2, where do I get these long term goals?

The living story is nice, I love story and lore! And listen to everything precisely. But the things you get for completing parts is.. meh. It's just not necessary to do it. I could literally just walk around and gather and do hearts and get .. maybe even better stuff in the same time. I didn't recognize I'd get a special skin, a mini, a mount, some stronger armor than I have.. just something to store and sell and dismantle. The story is at least a goal I can always follow. But besides this...

 

I can do anything all the time. But I can't get myself a goal. Something big. Something like becoming stronger, or to become the best or some motivation to find myself a team and guild to accomplish something, because why accomplish it? I'd really want to have something to .. do something for. The long-term goal. The aim I do everything I do for. Or to do something specific for. I just feel lost in this game. Over and over again. And I am not a twinker. I want to play my main and to develop him. To experience with him. And to work for a greater goal.

But I think this game makes it pretty difficult. 

 

 

I just needed to get this out. I really like this game. It has a lot of really special things. And the lore is awesome. But everything seems so.. worthless. 

I think you have one of two issues.

1.) It sounds like you do not like the rewards for what you do in GW2 in comparison to WoW - Where in WoW you get stronger gear every season and in GW2 you just get cool skins in endgame. Which is understandable. You want what you work for to actually be a beneficial investment in terms of gameplay rather than a superficial benefit in how your character looks. You can work towards legendary weapons or armor, but other than QoL and looks you won't see any improvements over ascended gear.

2.) Achievement goals are not clearly being shown to you - The game has TONS and TONS of different achievements and unless you know more or less what you are looking to do it's like finding a needle in a haystack. It's one of the things I think can be improved on in GW2. For example, adding an achievement section our quest panel letting us know that there are achieves that can be done there we click on it and it takes us directly to the respective achievement in the achievement panel. I think Blish HUB is a mod that can show you achievement's in your area as well as other stuff to do in real time.

Edited July 17, 2023 by HonesltlyX.7164

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Splat.7981 said:

I also love to be rewarded by the time and effort i put into games, in MMORPG's i love doing dungeons and raids, my understanding is that the GW2 team stopped making those, i think it's sad and i don't know why they would do that, is there anything they released to replace them?

The original Dungeons were abandoned because their coding turned out to be overtly complicated and fixing that would require rewriting them from ground up. Devs were unwilling to do that, so instead they introduced Fractals, that are meant to replace that type of content.

Raids were abandoned because, compared to the amount of resources their development required, they just weren't popular enough. GW2 playerbase is just way too casual, and, despite putting alot of effort into it, Anet was never able to change that. Now in that place we have Strikes, which are raid-like encounters, but shorter (one boss at a time, with no trash mobs/intermediary events) and far less resource intensive.

Notice, that, unlike with WoW, in gw2 there's no gear progression that would obsolete older content with time. There was some power creep, but all that content is still very much playable. Dungeons aged more (mostly by being much easier even at start), but Raids aren't all that massively different than they were originally - especially if you are a relatively new player.

3 hours ago, Splat.7981 said:

No matter if a game has horizontal or vertical progression i do think that dungeons and raids should be a part of a mmorpg.

Like i mentioned, there's still content that conceptually takes their place (they're just called by different names), and Raids are still quite playable too.

3 hours ago, Splat.7981 said:

I do get that many people love to collect mounts, achievements, and so on i love all that but i also love to get into instances, world bosses try to defeat them and be rewarded by it or at least be able to farm those for the things i wish to obtain.

GW2 just has a completely different reward structure. Rewards are there, but are mostly about visuals or general wealth (which, usually, leads to other visuals), not about getting stronger. And that's how most players do like it.

[kharmin.7683]

11 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

GW2 just has a completely different reward structure. Rewards are there, but are mostly about visuals or general wealth (which, usually, leads to other visuals), not about getting stronger. And that's how most players do like it.

Because, to be otherwise would be like pretty much every other MMO out there, none of which really appeal to players like me.  It's great that we can have a game that we can casually enjoy outside of full-time jobs/full-time families and other obligations all of which can make it difficult to engage with a game that can require a lot of upkeep and upgrading -- time that many of us simply do not have.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

GW2 has more types of goals than WoW. They are simply not mandatory and there's nothing handholding you towards them. You choose what you want to do, and you have to find it first.

As for the incremental power you crave, GW2 is simply not that kind of game. You get stronger by becoming more skilled at using your character. The most skilled players can solo raids with a character with which nobody else can do it, like wearing just masterwork gear.

[Rumpus.1234]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:13 AM, Padrion.7382 said:

GW2 and WoW both do it these days. In the former you are "the commander", in the latter "the champion", either way you are the chosen one. I personally think it's a terrible way of story telling in an MMO and not a particularly great one in a single player game either. However, in Guild Wars at least there is a point (somewhere in HoT I think) where your character at least starts to act like a leader and begins to give orders to NPCs instead of  just running their little unimportant errands whenever being told so. For the champion of the horde/alliance in contrast it seems no task is too mundane to get your hands dirty.

I always have time to dig up threatening grubs, or collect apples for Farmhand Paris! ❤️

Dragonstorm is a great example of the Spartacus situation. Lorewise, each player is the one working with the NPCs to figure out what's happening and fix it. They just happen to be leading a company of 79 legendary fighters in magical armor / max level bandits in full Daedric plate / very good friends who are all up for defeating dragon champions by, I don't know, a scrum with lots of punching? Tossing grenades into a melee full of friendlies?