Should Instant Revive abilities be disabled in 2v2?

[Raught.3294]

It seems most of my matches come down to whoever has insta revives. And there is no real way to counter this. I feel in a 3v3, it would be different, but in a 2v2 it's pretty disheartening and frustrating. 

[Luthan.5236]

A "no downstate" event might be better I think. Other than that ... you still can bring your own class/profession with insta-rez.

[Zagerus.8675]

I'd actually prefer going a step further with a codex-style format where a build is pre-defined (Built by Anet) for each profession for the duration of the death-match season. GW1 had something similar for things like Costume Brawl and it was actually really fun experimenting and trying to squeeze out what you could from the skills you were provided with.

[Raught.3294]

8 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

A "no downstate" event might be better I think. Other than that ... you still can bring your own class/profession with insta-rez.

I do bring my own insta-rez, but I would prefer to not lol. It makes everything feel irrelevant with how difficult it can be to kill some classes, for their partner to be able to rez them within 1.5 seconds. 

[Waffles.5632]

8 minutes ago, Raught.3294 said:

I do bring my own insta-rez, but I would prefer to not lol. It makes everything feel irrelevant with how difficult it can be to kill some classes, for their partner to be able to rez them within 1.5 seconds. 

CC is a thing and having abilities that help make the downed state dynamic is healthy for overall PvP.  Not every class should be able to do every thing, this is why teamwork is needed to cover "All bases".

If you down an opponent and see their support is going for the clutch rez.... there's two of you, between you and your ally one of you should have at least some type of CC ready, just like when you go up against a Mesmer or Necro and you see them go for Moa/Lich.

 

Clutch rezzes are the most fun thing about gw2 PvP.

 

Also the main issue here isn't even rezzing, it's how hard it is to kill some specs, which, this is 2v2 and the game was certainly never balanced around such pvp, so all the good try hard specs will be near unkillable, just how it goes. If they nerf those for 2v2 then 5v5 becomes a mess so I'd rather they just leave 2v2 and 3v3 alone as is, or make them entirely separate because those modes really should be for fun only. It would be an absolute nightmare to balance gw2 pvp around 2v2.

Downed state for me is where all the intense action happens and it is an awesome mechanic in the game. For WvW I can see it being unnecessary, but anything outside of that, nah. Keep downed state and keep the clutch abilities so players can actually feel like heroes who made a difference in the outcome of a battle.

 

Lastly if you really prefer not to, then just don't bring it. Bring something else. I just find it a bit dishonest that you're using the very thing you claim to be unfun, and then turning around and saying it's unfun.

 

 

[shion.2084]

4 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

 

 

Lastly if you really prefer not to, then just don't bring it. Bring something else. I just find it a bit dishonest that you're using the very thing you claim to be unfun, and then turning around and saying it's unfun.

 

 

I don't think it's dishonest.  I mean he may not like the mechanic screwing up games... but since it's in games he's at a huge disadvantage if he doesn't use it and so he does.   It is not wrong for him to say he doesn't enjoy it being allowed, and yet uses it to be competitive since it is.

[Waffles.5632]

9 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I don't think it's dishonest.  I mean he may not like the mechanic screwing up games... but since it's in games he's at a huge disadvantage if he doesn't use it and so he does.   It is not wrong for him to say he doesn't enjoy it being allowed, and yet uses it to be competitive since it is.

 

Why would anyone force themselves to be so competitive at GW2 2v2 PvP that they would constantly use a mechanic they find so broken that they themselves get disheartened and frustrated by?

 

As a personal example, I find Mecha to be absolutely absurd. My frustration for that class knows no end, however, I do not play it, and I do not judge anyone for playing it, because thematically I think it's a great class, my issue is with it's overtuned mechanics. So when I see it in PvP I try my best to use what I find fun and play against it, and lo and behold, I learned a couple of new tricks to help me and now fighting them is way easier now than on EoD launch/beta.

 

99% of my frustration is literally gone because of the above two things. I couldn't imagine myself playing Mecha 24/7 and then making a thread saying "Mecha is disheartening kuz I feel like I need to use it all the time"

This is no different than relying on a crutch and then blaming the crutch for doing it's job.

 

Edit : Again keep in mind, this is gw2 2v2 pvp, this isn't ranked 5v5, this isn't a MAT, this isn't the big PvP tournament that pays money, this is 2v2 pvp here...

Edited December 9, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[shion.2084]

Its like playing 

8 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

 

Why would anyone force themselves to be so competitive at GW2 2v2 PvP that they would constantly use a mechanic they find so broken that they themselves get disheartened and frustrated by?

 

As a personal example, I find Mecha to be absolutely absurd. My frustration for that class knows no end, however, I do not play it, and I do not judge anyone for playing it, because thematically I think it's a great class, my issue is with it's overtuned mechanics. So when I see it in PvP I try my best to use what I find fun and play against it, and lo and behold, I learned a couple of new tricks to help me and now fighting them is way easier now than on EoD launch/beta.

 

99% of my frustration is literally gone because of the above two things. I couldn't imagine myself playing Mecha 24/7 and then making a thread saying "Mecha is disheartening kuz I feel like I need to use it all the time"

This is no different than relying on a crutch and then blaming the crutch for doing it's job.

 

Edit : Again keep in mind, this is gw2 2v2 pvp, this isn't ranked 5v5, this isn't a MAT, this isn't the big PvP tournament that pays money, this is 2v2 pvp here...

Consider a game of poker where one eye jacks are wild... and you don't like that silliness... but if your trying to play the game to win your probably not going to make all your one eye jacks jacks right?

[Waffles.5632]

21 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

Its like playing 

Consider a game of poker where one eye jacks are wild... and you don't like that silliness... but if your trying to play the game to win your probably not going to make all your one eye jacks jacks right?

If I'm not having fun and I'm not getting paid, I either don't play, or I don't use whatever I find to be "broken".

Once again, the issue is within the person. I can't get behind actively using something that causes frustration, just to keep a competitive edge in such an isolated game mode where there is literally no expectation of balance because it's not even the correct game mode for the this game's PvP. Does OP truly want to win that bad? If so, that's a flaw within OP. Again.

 

The fact is any system that promotes paying attention to your opponents during key moments is good and healthy for competitive PvP gameplay because that is what creates excitement. PvP would be so boring if everyone just died at 0 hp. We would never get types of plays that Naru made with his tempest during the last big tournament or so. Supports would be dumbed down so much it would be insane.

 

In 2v2 the most exciting moments come from when one person is downed. At the top, if its just bunker/support vs bunker/support, or whatever the top 2v2 specs are, that is still not an issue of rezzing but again rather how insane some builds be when it's just 2v2, so nerfing rezzes not only would not change that issue, it would actively destroy a pillar of gw2 pvp.

 

But again, this is 2v2, one should expect tanky support condi builds to rule supreme, or any "bruiser" type build which is

 

- Enough defense to survive CC

- Enough sustain to get out of a jam

- Enough dps to kill any class that cant check the above two points

 

If you find a spec like that in 2v2, grats you're a bruiser and if you duo queue you're prolly gonna win like 90% of your matches because that is what has ALWAYS been top in 2v2 for as long as I can remember.

 

If youre using any spec like that and then complain "Bruisers so OP they make pvp 2v2 unfun" guess what? You're part of your own problem.

 

If you want proof of any of this just check out EVO moment #37

 

Tell me why this moment out of all moments, is still one of the most hype moments in all of gaming.

 

Because someone was able to come back with the proper use of skill AND timing by the game allowing him a chance to pay attention to his opponents moves and use a "comeback mechanic" very similar to gw2's clutch rezzes.

 

The most extreme example is if you and opponent both have 100 hp, but he always does 2 damage and you always do 1 damage. No one would ever play that game because the person who does 2 damage will ALWAYS win. Now let's add something, the person who does 1 damage can now dodge, but the person who does 2 damage can't. Now it creates a moment where skill can beat the mechanics, and that is exciting. On the flip side if you just make so 50% chance of player A doing 2 damage instead of 1, that's not promoting skill or active gameplay, it's gambling RNG.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[shion.2084]

1 minute ago, Waffles.5632 said:

If I'm not having fun and I'm not getting paid, I either don't play, or I don't use whatever I find to be "broken".

Once again, the issue is within the person. I can't get behind actively using something that causes frustration, just to keep a competitive edge in such an isolated game mode where there is literally no expectation of balance because it's not even the correct game mode for the this game's PvP. Does OP truly want to win that bad? If so, that's a flaw within OP. Again.

 

I'll try one last time.

It is not "dishonest" to say I dislike downstate existing... but since it does I'm going to try to take advantage of it when I'm downed and try to rally.

The OP presumably is joining a ranked v2 to do his best to win.  Which is good sportsmanship and respect for your opponent and teammate.  There may be rules to the game he doesn't like, but if they are the current rules of the game and they are the surest path to victory then he's obliged to try his best and make use of them.   His behaviours are no inconsistent.  You can dislike that something is in  a game, ask to have it removed, and yet still use it while it is.

 

We can agree to disagree.  I don't see anything dishonest about what is being done.

 

[Waffles.5632]

1 minute ago, shion.2084 said:

I'll try one last time.

It is not "dishonest" to say I dislike downstate existing... but since it does I'm going to try to take advantage of it when I'm downed and try to rally.

The OP presumably is joining a ranked v2 to do his best to win.  Which is good sportsmanship and respect for your opponent and teammate.  There may be rules to the game he doesn't like, but if they are the current rules of the game and they are the surest path to victory then he's obliged to try his best and make use of them.   His behaviours are no inconsistent.  You can dislike that something is in  a game, ask to have it removed, and yet still use it while it is.

 

We can agree to disagree.  I don't see anything dishonest about what is being done.

 

It is you who are not listening.

Ranked is not for winning. The entirety of GW2 and every video game in a non-professional setting is to have fun first, everything else second. This is not only not 5v5, not MAT, this is 2v2.

 

The mentality that "you have to win" is the core problem with gw2 pvp. The mentality needs to shift to "You need to have fun" so that everyone doesn't just pile on the fotm specs and then hop on the forums to complain about the fotm specs. This is the cycle that repeats constantly. You're seeing it here right now.

 

Again.

 

This is 2v2.

 

You don't realize how much of a try hard you are calling OP unintentionally lol. If you dislike that something is in game so much that it is both frustrating and disheartening (OP's words), you won't force yourself to use it.

Simple as that.

No one should care about winning 2v2 so much that they are disheartened by clutch rezzes I can't even believe I have to say this.

 

 

[shion.2084]

1 minute ago, Waffles.5632 said:

It is you who are not listening.

Ranked is not for winning. The entirety of GW2 and every video game in a non-professional setting is to have fun first, everything else second. This is not only not 5v5, not MAT, this is 2v2.

 

The mentality that "you have to win" is the core problem with gw2 pvp. The mentality needs to shift to "You need to have fun" so that everyone doesn't just pile on the fotm specs and then hop on the forums to complain about the fotm specs. This is the cycle that repeats constantly. You're seeing it here right now.

 

Again.

 

This is 2v2.

 

You don't realize how much of a try hard you are calling OP unintentionally lol. If you dislike that something is in game so much that it is both frustrating and disheartening (OP's words), you won't force yourself to use it.

Simple as that.

No one should care about winning 2v2 so much that they are disheartened by clutch rezzes I can't even believe I have to say this.

 

 

If I agree to a competition and be partnered with people who might reasonably expect my best effort then I agree to try my best.  This is basic respect for my teammates and opponents.   
And I find competition fun.  If I did not, then I wouldn't be agreeing to the competition.

[Waffles.5632]

Since when is playing for fun not about giving your best effort? So you can't both play for fun and try your best? Is this really a foreign concept to you or are you trolling like come on..

[Avatar.3568]

you can press your cc buttons and cc

[jdawgie.1835]

28 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I'll try one last time

Dont bother. This dudes logic is the same as the people who think team queuing in 2v2 is some how match manipulation. When the entire mode of the game is meant to do so. Same as his reasoning for thinking there's a flaw in someone or its dishonest to use a broken mechanic like Banners, or Signets to bring people back. It is not dishonest it exists and pretending it doesn't to take some ho-hum stand against injustice is a laughable expectation of other human beings. He will not see this. 

 

23 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

It is you who are not listening.

Ranked is not for winning

Lmfao. Not for winning? Its a competitive game mode entirely set around winning or loosing and rewards are given out as a result of those win / loses. Not only is it you who is not listening, you lack comprehension of what's being said to you all together. 

[shion.2084]

8 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Dont bother. This dudes logic is the same as the people who think team queuing in 2v2 is some how match manipulation. When the entire mode of the game is meant to do so. Same as his reasoning for thinking there's a flaw in someone or its dishonest to use a broken mechanic like Banners, or Signets to bring people back. It is not dishonest it exists and pretending it doesn't to take some ho-hum stand against injustice is a laughable expectation of other human beings. He will not see this. 

 

For the record, I think for duo matches there should be a separate duo Q pool vs the solo Q.   Hopefully there'd be enough population to make that fly.  There's a huge advantage in building together specifically and being able to communicate.   And I get others "could" do that... but if they prefer not to then a category for solo duo vs pre-made would be a good answer.

[jdawgie.1835]

1 minute ago, shion.2084 said:

For the record, I think for duo matches there should be a separate duo Q pool vs the solo Q

Yes I agree with this lol. Duos dont need to be stomping pugs. Its not competitive.  However - solo players shouldnt be there at all. They que into that at their own risk. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by jdawgie.1835

[Waffles.5632]

28 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Dont bother. This dudes logic is the same as the people who think team queuing in 2v2 is some how match manipulation. When the entire mode of the game is meant to do so. Same as his reasoning for thinking there's a flaw in someone or its dishonest to use a broken mechanic like Banners, or Signets to bring people back. It is not dishonest it exists and pretending it doesn't to take some ho-hum stand against injustice is a laughable expectation of other human beings. He will not see this. 

 

I think duo queue in 2v2 is awesome and I have duo'd with 5+ different people this season. I think you have me confused with someone else.

 

Edit: Also I said it's a BIT dishonest to USE the very same mechanic you say gets you FRUSTRATED and DISHEARTENED. Not that the mechanic itself is dishonest, or using the mechanic is dishonest. I wish you could read better because I really don't think I should have to point this stuff out. A misunderstanding is one thing, but just making up what I say and then going off on such an unrelated tangent is another.

 

28 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Lmfao. Not for winning? Its a competitive game mode entirely set around winning or loosing and rewards are given out as a result of those win / loses. Not only is it you who is not listening, you lack comprehension of what's being said to you all together. 

I see you do not know the difference between the two mindsets of playing for fun and playing to win.

 

Playing for fun usually involves sticking to a theme and making the best of what you got. Note that key phrase though. The best of what you got. I.E trying your best.

 

Playing to win means you are constantly looking for every possible advantage, in this case that means the following:

- Keeping up with the ranked season by season

- Keeping up with the latest meta builds

- Keeping an eye out for any hidden/possible new meta builds

- Playing and mastering ALL of said Meta builds so you can swap before each match

- Scouting enemy team each match to see what best to counter/swap to

- Soooo much more.

 

 

In both instances, both players are trying their best, one just cares about winning way more. In both instances, both players are fine and can function on the same team flawlessly if they are both trying their best.

 

Lastly, GW2 PvP is not centered around winning or losing.. If you want proof of this, notice how losers still get rewarded. If it was based around winning/losing, losers would get nothing because that's how it actually works. Winners take all, and that's why they're winners, the ones who don't lose out and get nothing. I.E losers.

 

Anyways, GW2 is actually based around teamwork and cooperation.

The better team always wins, not the better players.

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[shion.2084]

5 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Yes I agree with this lol. Duos dont need to be stomping pugs. Its not competitive.  However - solo players shouldnt be there at all. They que into that at their own risk. 

If there were two separate queues for pre-made vs. solo, to play duo... then I don't see why solo's shouldn't be there.   It's still fun to play Solo, you randomly see who you get, you madly adjust your build, you make a friend or a block list 🙂.    It also hones near fighting skills.

[Waffles.5632]

Just now, shion.2084 said:

If there were two separate queues for pre-made vs. solo, to play duo... then I don't see why solo's shouldn't be there.   It's still fun to play Solo, you randomly see who you get, you madly adjust your build, you make a friend or a block list 🙂.    It also hones near fighting skills.

On this we can agree on. I have done 99% solo queue in ranked pvp the past 3yrs or so, it has been great IMO.

In my experience also, solo players tend to love the challenge anyways. There's a certain feeling that's just hard to shake when you manage to win consistently while solo. You always know a good solo queue pvper when you see them imo. Again though, IMO!

[Stand The Wall.6987]

all the revive skills have cast times don't they?

[Raught.3294]

8 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

all the revive skills have cast times don't they?

Yeah, they used to be 3 seconds, but were reduced to 1.5 seconds

[Gotejjeken.1267]

10 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Lastly, GW2 PvP is not centered around winning or losing.. If you want proof of this, notice how losers still get rewarded. If it was based around winning/losing, losers would get nothing because that's how it actually works. Winners take all, and that's why they're winners, the ones who don't lose out and get nothing. I.E losers.

 

You get more pips for winning than you do for losing.  This is just normal ranks, not even what you can get through MAT's (if wintrading wasn't a thing).  

Not even IRL do losers 'get nothing'.  Look at any podium event--silver and bronze still get paid, and still get literal metals.  So the 'loser get nothing' logic holds no water.

I mean you linked a literal evo tournament video and somehow have no concept that there's way more payout than just the final winner....

[Waffles.5632]

My god they're really doubling down. 😭

Edited December 10, 2022 by Waffles.5632

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